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my puppy is sick

_frenchy101
February 8th, 2004, 01:05 PM
willing to take any info possible b/c scared going to have to put puppy to sleep.

not sure how old but my grandfathers dog had puppies several weeks ago all have weened and started growing rapidly except one.
this one puppy is eating reguarly but, has no strength in his back legs, and doesnt seem to be growing as fast as the others.
i just got in town and after a few hours of observation brought the puppy inside to give a bath and try to fix up. when i gave it a bath noticed on his stomach where his imbilical cord had been was (hard to describe) like a hole that had tried to scab over but where it has stayed wet hasnt and smelled very bad. also his private part looked very swollen. finished the bath and put him in the basement where i could take care and watch over him.

im not sure if he cant walk on his back legs because of probuablem on stomach or if there is more to it.

also noticed has a hard time peeing will wimper intill he goes but then has hard time getting out of the mess.
trys using front arm strenght to walk like hes just walking on front legs but has hard time with that too.
noticed today place on stomach is drying up (had been laying outside on wet blanket) and starting to scab over.

also stomach seems very bloated looking

if any one knows anything about of of this it would really help b/c right now im out of work due to maternity leave and dont have any money to afford a vet . although im pretty sure if this doesnt clear up soon i will have to take him there.

wAggie
February 8th, 2004, 02:10 PM
I don't know...

call around asking for a vet's advice... ask ur grandfather who his vet is & start from there.

search on the internet... otherwise don't waste time since the longer you wait, the more probs he may have later on....

Lucky Rescue
February 8th, 2004, 02:42 PM
If your grandfather is breeding dogs, he should be able to afford to take care of them.
This puppy is suffering and MUST go to a vet - even if only to be euthanized HUMANELY. Sigh.

_frenchy101
February 8th, 2004, 03:07 PM
any suggestions on where i could look on the internet for info

my grandfather has never used a vet
we dont breed dogs
he has a farm (jusst the acherage) so he lets the dogs run
we feed them several times a day and they happen to breed theirselves with other neighboring dogs

wAggie
February 8th, 2004, 03:12 PM
ur grandfather has NO vet.

has NOT neutered/spayed his dogs.


but u have an INTERNET SERVICE PROVIDER??!


something seems backwards here... :mad:


forget searching anything, get the dogs/puppies to a vet IMMEDIATELY!!!!

they NEED first aid, for god's sakes, ALL of the puppies MUST be dewormed!!!!


Educate yourself, PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


you, pregnant yourself, are you not going to get your baby checked out or is this a home delivery and if the child isn't walking properly by the age of 2-3, THEN u'r gonna log onto an internet chat room and ask these ridiculous questions??!


COME ON!

chico2
February 8th, 2004, 03:57 PM
I agree completely with Aggie,you sound like you care,but your grandfather obviously does not,just feeding is not enough..
What happens to all those puppies?
Farmdog or not,it's cruel to let them breed like rabbits.
This new little puppy needs to be put out of his misery,not drowned or thrown into a wall,but at a vets...Having a farm,I am sure your grandfather also must have a vet,unless he does not have any farm animals.
Please do the right thing..the little one needs help,even if it is to be put down.

melanie
February 8th, 2004, 04:48 PM
there are diseases that can be passed from dog to human, you may not get sick due to your imune system but you are having or have a small child who can get very sick from the dogs, there are worms, skin problems ect and the dogs need shots for these, if the mother was done the pups would have been protected through her, so it is your gradfathers fault for not doing it in the first place and saving himself money in the long run. take the pup to the vet or put it down, it is suffering, anything that smells bad is not normal and is dangerous, likely painful and unfair for the pup.

mona_b
February 8th, 2004, 05:06 PM
Are you serious.No vet?

That just really pisses me off.

This puppy is in serious trouble and is suffering BIG time.

I suggest YOU find a vet.Take the puppy to get checked.And take how ever many dogs your grandfather has and get them all fixed.

What he is doing is so very cruel and inhumane.

You need to educate him.

My sister is on a farm with 3 Siberian Huskies,a Border Collie,cats and cows.

All dogs and cats are fixed.Even the barn cats.

The help this puppy needs is not on the internet.It's at a vets.

You sound more caring then your Grandfather.

I'm sorry,but this just upsets me.

Karina
February 8th, 2004, 05:24 PM
Please go to the vet immediately. This is the only place you can find help. Internet does not cure.

If you do not know where the vet is - ask around. Or use the Internet - google them or yahoo them. The search egine usually asks for the postal code, once enetered, it gives you the list of vets in your area. Enter the wider search radius (if at farm, chances are there are no vets in your immediate area). Do this NOW and take this puppy to the vet IMMEDIATELY. Once done with this puppy, take other puppies to the vet. Be responsible. You owe this dogs to be taken care of.

If they die, and you know you could help - how will you feel?

_frenchy101
February 8th, 2004, 05:39 PM
im sorry ive upset everyone or who knows maybe im just apologizing b/c im pregnant and due on the 21st of this month so am very emotional
so anyways thank you all for your input
i only came back in town to have my baby and its the only reason i found out about the puppy
i do plan on taking the puppy to the vet no matter what the cost is now
and the other puppies have already been given away so i cant take them for immunizations
both me and my grandfather have sat down and discussed the situation its just that (yes this sounds immature) i had always wanted to be a vet so i just thought i could help it myself im sorry i have offended everybody by this you know im veryly 19 and just now starting to realize what it is to live as an adult and know im not a child anymore and just so everyone knows i was very offended by someone saying i would get on the internet if my child was sick that was a very sorry thing to say
yes i know that pets are just as important and that i might look like a very cruel person right now
but when your pregnant dont have a car no family around my grandfather is old and sick himself just veryly able to take care of himself my husband is still in michigan trying to bring in money so we can have money to make it easier on ourselves and give the baby the best we can...............anyways how am i suppose to do anything ........... i have to depend on ambulance now for once i go into labor
so yes i thought i would try to find something on the internet first
yes i will get my puppy to the vet tomarro but intill then does any one have any suggestions on what could be wrong
he is eating well , using the rest room well , but seems like it hurts him when he pees, and what could be the reason for the scab on the location of umbilical cord and why would he have so much trouble walking could it be b/c of the sore ????????

Lucky Rescue
February 8th, 2004, 05:39 PM
I understand that these dogs " happen to breed theirselves with other neighboring dogs." (So it's the dog's fault??)

I also understand that this is the way it was when your grandfather was growing up - heck, this is the way it was when *I* was growing up!

BUT, times have changed and animals are being killed in record numbers, and it's time for your granddad to get with the program, educate himself and be a little more responsible like all of us did.

As for the puppy - we cannot diagnose and treat it over the internet even if we were vets. If you can afford a computer and internet access, you can afford to help this suffering puppy that your g.f. helped bring into this world AND afford to get the dog(s) spayed. There really is no excuse.

Welcome to 2004!

_frenchy101
February 8th, 2004, 05:45 PM
thank you karina
you are right i have no clue being from out of town and all where a vet might be so thank you on telling me where to find one

and luckyrescue i cant afford the internet or a computer or a car
right now me and my husband are trying to get on our feet
but yes im trying to find a vet and get my puppy there asap
i know there is no cure on the internet but i had no one to console in here on an empty farm and i thought this board might be able to help me

yes my grandfather needs to get his dog fixed i understand that
but like you said he went thru that generation gap and his 19 yr old granddaughter cnt tell him any different but yes if i had the money all this would have been taken care of along time ago

melanie
February 8th, 2004, 07:07 PM
and in the iterim (till tomorrow when you go to the vet) make sure the pup is comfy and warm, no cold breezes or anything, give plenty of fluids and try to keep things quiet and let the pup rest. make sure it has a nice bed to rest in and keep it away from people in a quiet place, did you say the basement, nice and quiet down there but make sure its warm and very dry and give the pup plenty of company, dont leave it down there alone for too long. oh and plenty of lovin and pats till tomorrow should help, but do go to the vet and get your grandfather to pay for it to. all your questions will be answered by the vet tomorrow. and if it helps, see if your grandfather could perhaps do a payment plan with the vet which might make it easier and encourage him to treat the other dogs.

_frenchy101
February 8th, 2004, 09:13 PM
thanx
yeah hes in the basement that is believe it or not the warmest part of the house (where wood burning stove is) and is concrete floor
i made him a nice comfy bed but he seems to like floor better have been taking him water papas been cleaning up his messes so i dont have to be around that part plus that way the pup doesnt waddle in it
ive stayed down there alot today and it made the puppy real happy we even played a little bit
i believe it brought his spirits up
of course he doesnt like when i do come back upstairs he crys a lil bit but i leave a light on for him so he feels a lil more comfy
i did find a vet and they do take payment plans so me and papa have agreed no matter what the cost it would be better to take him tommarro and hopefully get him fixed up

wAggie
February 8th, 2004, 09:48 PM
very well done!... so far.


Please keep us posted on what happens @ the vet....


I hope the puppy survives this... :(

_frenchy101
February 8th, 2004, 10:04 PM
not exactly sure but have also been doing some research
and found something that sounds right
of course will have to wait intill tomarro
but i found Intervertebral Disc Disease (slipped disc).
, it may rupture, or herniate, causing a portion of the disc to protrude upward and place pressure on the spinal cord. This pressure typically prevents or inhibits nerve transmission along the spinal cord. The effect on the spinal cord will depend on the amount and severity of the pressure. Effects can include pain, weakness and paralysis. The location of the "ruptured disc" will also affect the cord. A disc herniation in the neck area may affect the entire body, while one in the middle of the dog's back may only affect the actions of thThe nerves affecting the bladder and colon may also be affected making it difficult for the dog to urinate or defecate on it's own.
but there is treatment and a good chance for survival
but like i said ill have to wait till tomarro
for now the puppy is quietly resting and i belive thats what i need to go do for now

wAggie
February 8th, 2004, 10:08 PM
... I believe u did this to sleep tonight....

good for you...


there's really nothing stopping you or ur grandfather from taking that poor puppy in 2morrow!

plz do so!! we can't emphasize enough!

chico2
February 8th, 2004, 10:13 PM
Bonsoir Frenchy!
I do sympathize with you and the puppy,it sounds like life to you is not easy and it sometimes difficult for us to understand,most of us have pampered,adored pets.
I once(a looong time ago)was seventeen and had a baby and not much else,but when my cat got sick we found the money to get him to a vet.
I know your grandfathers dogs are not your responsability and I am glad you are caring for the puppy,he's just a baby and has only you...Farmlife is probably very different from our city-life,but still there must be vets around.
I at one time visited friends in Alberta who had a ranch with many dogs,if a dog got sick they shot it,if the cats had kittens they threw them against the wall,these things happen..needless to say,I would never set foot in Alberta again.
I hope the little one is not in too much pain,how old is he?
If he's eating what I presume is dog-food,he must be a little older,right?
Anyway,I hope everything works out for you,the baby and your puppy. Bonne nuit,bonne chance!

chico2
February 9th, 2004, 07:58 AM
Just an afterthought...I want to apologize to all Albertans out there,did not mean to offend.
Alberta is a beautiful province,I just had a bad experience visiting friends we had met on holiday.
Their dogs,mostly hunting dogs,were shot if limping or anything like that...the cats kept as rat-catchers were not allowed anymore kittens and were looked at as vermins almost like the rats.I am sure it does not happen on all Alberta farms...so,I apologize again:)

amaruq
February 9th, 2004, 08:13 AM
I'm glad Frenchy is taking the pup to the vet....I really hope all goes well there.

Chico...I'm from Alberta..Northern Alberta to be exact. Farm girl here.....I've seen more gross things in my time then I care to think about. It's not just Alberta though that does that to the dogs..or cats for that matter. Most farmers keep the dogs outside..there is no bonding. The dogs or cats are used as a farm animal and are expendable when they are not doing their job. It's a sad thing...very sad. Thats why I have gone to the other end of the spectrum and will do anything in my power to help an animal.

chico2
February 9th, 2004, 08:39 AM
Amaruq..one of my sons has been living in Alberta for 5yrs,in Vermilion 2hours away from Edmonton.I was on a farm in Pincher Creek south of Calgary and yes,I saw many other awful things..
I could never be a cattle-farmer,my animals would all be out in the field and die of old age:D
I hope the little Frenchy puppy survived another night..

_frenchy101
February 9th, 2004, 10:43 AM
well good morning everyone
well by baby puppy is doing ok and seems to be in good spirits this morning
we are getting ready for the vet right now
so everyone wish me luck
ill keep you posted

chico2
February 9th, 2004, 11:03 AM
I thought you lived in Quebec,since you call yourself "Frenchy":o
Good luck with the little one!

mona_b
February 9th, 2004, 11:41 AM
Good luck.

I have my fingers crossed that everything will be ok with puppy.

Please let us know.:)

amaruq
February 9th, 2004, 11:44 AM
I lived in a small town called Thorhild. My Dad was from Smokey Lake..He had a trap line on the North Saskatchewan river....We also had a farm out there.
I used to fight so hard with my dad how he was so gross..I still do although we don't have a farm anymore..but he likes to hunt.
Now he thinks I'm crazy cause 5 have animals and am considering and iguana but want to research more to see if I'm the right person to have one. But I love Lizards...

chico2
February 9th, 2004, 03:45 PM
Amaruq..Iguanas are beautiful creatures,I just think they belong in the wild,like in Mexico and other places.
Once when we were in Mexico,this mexican had caught one at the resort,showed him off to the tourists and tied him to a tree,later at night I went down with scissors(to my husbands horror)and cut him loose....I could have sworn he gave me a big grin and a thank you as he ran off:D
We've been to a lot of places in the world and it never fails,there is always an animal who needs to be "rescued":p

melanie
February 9th, 2004, 04:07 PM
if the reptile had been in captivity for a very long time or was not physically well enough for rehabilitation after injury then it may be an option, but never buy an iguana or reptile as you are just feeding a terrible industry who prey on animal and reptiles in their native habitat and steal or poach them. these industries are based on a demand supply system, no demand no supply. please dont support this type of practice, yes cats and dogs are domesticated so it is not so bad for them but to take a beautiful creature from its natural environs and put it in a little box to look at is just down right horrific, animals are part of an ecosystem and valid memeber of the world, they are not here for human pleasure which seems to be the reason these industries do so well, please dont do it. also do you have a licencing system there for reptiles, in australia you must posess a licence to house a reptile. darn you people are distracting, i just burnt the toast so the dog is happily chewing away on blackened vegemite toast.:D

chico2
February 9th, 2004, 04:34 PM
Melanie,you are funny.....agree about the reptiles though!!
I am not sure but I don't think you need any license to own a reptile here.....in Canada

melanie
February 9th, 2004, 04:45 PM
finally got that toast, the dog is soo happy at breakfast time as i often get very distracted so she eats all my mistakes, and all must be coated in vegemite, her favourite.:D :D :D

Lucky Rescue
February 9th, 2004, 04:47 PM
Melanie I agree with you 100%. Reptiles are not adaptable, as mammals are, and most people do not have the equipment, knowledge or resources to keep them properly. They have very strict requirements as to heat, humidity, light, environment and food and will not thrive on anything less.

It's outrageous that pet stores will sell them to anyone, without regard for their care or requirements.

Most reptiles in pet homes sicken and die, and a diet of crickets is NOT adequate.

If someone really wants a reptile, they should consider a turtle. They are about the only ones that can thrive in captivity.

amaruq
February 10th, 2004, 08:35 AM
I thought that when my daughter moved out I could turn her room into the Lizard room.

I understand your feeling on this issue and respect them. I have the same feeling about Birds. I don't think they belong in the house.

I am very frightened to get anything I don't know about.....this is my biggest concern. I would hate to be responsible for its death or illness. This is why I am pretty sure I will not get one because they take allot of work and you really have to know what you are doing to insure it's survival.

Thanks for the tune up though I really never thought about the pet trade. Now I feel really bad. I don't want to harm anyone or anything. But you got to admit Lizards are cool lol!



http://images.cyclura.com/sightings/2002/apr/iguana.jpg

chico2
February 10th, 2004, 09:24 AM
Yes,Amaruq they are,but that does not mean i would buy one:D
I think just about everything is beautiful in it's own way esp,wolves,any big cat,cheetahs,tigers etc,bears even a little spider,they all serve a purpose and if left alone in their own environ,will survive..
The capture and transportation of big Iguanas,especially from Mexico should not be encouraged,half of them die on the way,the same as with tropical birds etc..
I am sure you would do your best to be a good Iguana-mom,try to do all the right things,but your best bet is to travel to Mexico,if you can and see them in their habitats,they can sometimes be up to five feet long(tail incl)and they are amazing.

amaruq
February 10th, 2004, 10:43 AM
Chico..if you love wolves... know a great book for you..Secret Go The Wolves by R.D. Lawrence.....I loved it! It's a true story about R.D. raising 2 wolf cubs. Get a box of kleenex both for laughing and crying.

melanie
February 10th, 2004, 02:28 PM
oh i totally agree, reptiles are the coolest of species, and i am soooo glad that you wont be getting one, one less that needs to be captured, just remember demand=supply, no demand no supply. and if you look hard enough there are reptiles to be enjoyed everywhere. good decision:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

1john44
February 10th, 2004, 02:56 PM
Melanie because of your sense of humor I thought of you as I was reading this!

A rancher from Texas goes to Australia to study their way of ranching.
The first thing he asks about is their hay.
After the Australian rancher shows him some examples of
8 foot tall haystacks, the texan says, "Thats nothing! In Texas, we roll hay
8 feet wide and 15 feet tall!"

Next, the Texan asks to see the horse coral.
Before the Australian rancher can open his mouth, the Texan says,
"Our coral is this big and this wide!"

Suddently, a kangaroo goes bouncing by the two ranchers.
The Texan says, "Well, what in the heck was that?"

The ozzy says, "Don't worry mate! Thats just a mouse!"

The Texan's eyes look like basket balls.
Before he can respond, the Australian says,
"Don't worry, mate. The cat will get 'em."


New fun stuff brought to you by Hotbar.com - everyday!

chico2
February 10th, 2004, 03:48 PM
Funny 44:) :) :) :)
Amaruq(indian name????)
Yes,I do love wolves and have studied a lot about them,although I have not read the book by RD.Lawrence but I know of him,I have seen documentarys.I will look for the book in the library...
Once a long time ago there was a documentary about a pair of wolves,the female got caught in a leg-trap,the male stayed with her and they both died of starvation,now,that's love and devotion!
The problem with documentarys,is they show the ugly truth and I don't handle it very well:(

melanie
February 10th, 2004, 05:05 PM
ha ha ha ha ha, oh 44 that is very funny, and suprisingly similar to many tales we tell tourists and children and a good reflection of aussie humor, tall tales are our speciality such as the python that eats humans, drop bears, and that old simpsons favourite of catching a ride in a roos pouch. but have you seen the size of some feral cats, wow you could just imagine it chasing down a roo. thank you for that one, i will send it on to my mum, she will love it:D :D :D :D oh and we dont call it ranching, we have cattle stations and farms here:p

melanie
February 10th, 2004, 05:12 PM
oh and funnily enough, we were walking to the park the other day, we live in a small country town but still a busy little place non the less, and we came around a corner and here were 2 male red kangaroos (they are the biggies, about the same size as a grown teenager or woman) standing in the middle of the road. well we need to go for a run so we had to walk past them. as we got closer (poor dog was looking at me with little faith) one big boy came up to us, about 3 meters away and started hissing and carrying on (they sort of growl and hiss, quite scary). well i was thinking "no one will belive me if i tell them we got beaten up by 2 reds on the edge of town", so we started to walk a little faster and he just stood there watching us. oh he was soooo beautiful, but he didnt move, just watched us and showed us his chest and dominance. well havent seen him since but i actually think that was a close one, thank goodness the dog is not a barker or it could have really gone pear shaped, i really hope we see him again. :D :D

1john44
February 10th, 2004, 08:30 PM
That is to funny. I am not sure I would have been so determined to get the run in! I might have turned around and gone back home and had a nice ice cream sundea!!!!!!!!!!1:D :D :D

wAggie
February 10th, 2004, 09:03 PM
ladies.... I'm a little worried we haven't read anything from Frenchie today...

:(

mona_b
February 10th, 2004, 11:00 PM
I'm sorry that you felt that people where rude to her.

But understand something,WE are not vets.

WE did suggest something.We suggested that she take the poor suffering puppy to the vet.

If it's something non life threatening,then we can try and help.

We were not upset with her.We were upset with her Grandfather.

How can we advise any medical care on here if we are not licenced to?

We had a guy come on here who's Rottie was VERY ill.He,not being a vet,diagnosed Kennel Caugh.Why,cause he read it on the net.Without taking him to get checked.

We all told him to take the poor dog to a vet ASAP.

He argued with us and was VERY nasty.In all the time he argued,he could have taken the dog to the vet.He didn't.

This dog was very sick,lathargic,loosing weight and not eating.

Guess what?The dog died the next day.Once he finally took him to the vet.After being sick for days.

So please don't come on here and say people where being rude.
We are tired of hearing poor animals being sick and people can't afford a vet.

There is no price tag on owning an animal.

We are not all rich.But those of us who have dogs/cats will ALWAYS make sure we can take our sick pets to get medical attention.

As for this being the "ask a vet"....the vets on here are only backup.They are very busy.And will not get back to you as soon as you post.

If you notice on the ask a vet board,it will tell you to seek help ASAP if your pet is bleeding,has diharrea,vomiting,ect.

We try our best to help.But like I said,WE are not vets.

As for your first post,No one was rude to you.

Do you know the effects of not having your dog neutered?

it's called testicular and prostate cancer.

Look it up on the net.

LavenderRott
February 10th, 2004, 11:35 PM
Nothing makes me more upset then to come to a forum and find that someone has asked what to do about their pets illness because they don't have or don't want to spend money on a visit to the vet.

A couple of weeks ago, I thought I was going to loose my beagle. She was throwing up constantly and lethargic. Having been layed off in August, money is tight in my house. I took my poor dog to the vet, where she recieved medication and after one more scary night she recovered beautifully. I don't know what I would have done had it been more serious and required surgery, but I would have done something.

At no time, when she was sick, did I get on my computer and ask people what they thought was wrong and how I could fix it at home. I did talk to a couple of people who know my dog and have years of doggy experience. You can bet that they didn't offer me any over the phone advice. One of them did give me the number to their wonderful vet, who is now my vet.

I, personally, hate to see an animal suffer and it galls me when people can think that their computer can be a substitute for a vet visit. And yes, I will probably let you know.

1john44
February 11th, 2004, 06:57 AM
I agree that certain things need to be taken straight to the vet, but I am one of those that likes to treat things as naturally as possible. I try to use home remedies before going to the more drastic route. I do the same with myself and my humand children. I don't run to the doctor when I have a small fever, or a cough, and I have learned through many years as a fur child owner that certain things can be taken care of by me, without the traumatic trip to the vet. I have also learned that some things CAN NOT be treated by me and should go straight to the vet. I think that frenchy was scared and if you aren't used to finding the money to go to the vet you don't know what to do, you reach out anywhere you can. I went through and read some of the comments and some did come on awfully strong. I think sometimes we have to remember that we can catch more flies with honey then with oil!

chico2
February 11th, 2004, 07:38 AM
I too was thinking about Frenchy and her puppy,I don't think anyone was rude,but sometimes it's difficult to envision someone with an Internet-service and a PC being soooo poor.
Frenchys grandfather is in the old-time-farmer kind of state,I doubt he even buys dog-food,I am not sure why he kept dogs in the first place to have one litter after the other.
That's what we objected to!!!
I believe the puppy is more than likely dead,one way or the other..Frenchy did say she had no transportation,no money,no heat in the house other than wood-stoves and 9 months pregnant....but she had Internet?
It came through,that she cared about the puppy,but I don't think they would really bother,what's one little puppy,when there are soo many every year.
She said they were taking the little puppy to the vet,but probably mostly to ease our minds,that's my opinion.

1john44
February 11th, 2004, 07:44 AM
You are probably right. I doubt they took him to the vet. I think the grandfather probably had the dogs around because of habit. You get a puppy because he looks sooooo cute, and it goes from there. A lot of the old farmers and even the next generation don't think about having the animals fixed. Far to often they are seen only as property, not family.

1john44
February 11th, 2004, 08:04 AM
My post was in reply as to why the old farmer would have the dogs running around in the first place. I don't know anything about your dog and whether it is or is not spayed or nuetered.

amaruq
February 11th, 2004, 08:07 AM
Chico:

Ever see the movie "Where the Red Fern Grows"? Oh man I cry so hard at that movie.

R.D has field studied wolves for a long time. I have enjoyed many of his books.

I also love wolves and the big cats....oh wait and Bears. I always wanted to be Grizzly Adams...me a cabin...the forest now there's the life.

Amaruq is inuit for wolf.

1john44
February 11th, 2004, 08:15 AM
You have to remember that most of these women work with abandoned dogs daily. They see the horrible reality of what happens when dogs are left to breed without care. Starvation, and abuse, and abandonment. Then the lucky ones are found and adopted out, less lucky ones are put to sleep were they at least aren't suffering, and the unlucky ones continue to suffer. They are trying to help control the problem by convincing as many as theycan to fix their dogs. Sometimes they don't come of as easy as they could, but I don't think anyone could when theyhave seen what they have to see daily. In addition to the overpopulation of these dogs, you have to think about the health issues. My grandfather bred his doberman twice, and then never had her fixed. He watched her carefully and she never got pregnant when he didn't intend for it to happen so he felt it wasn't necessary. Well, it wasn't in order to prevent puppies in his case, but due to not being fixed, she developed cancer in all of her mammory glands. Can you imagine that pain? So please stop and remember that these women see stuff that I thank God I don't have to see, and sometimes that can make you a bit angry and less then forgiving!

chico2
February 11th, 2004, 08:20 AM
MizzErica.Actually it is our business wether you n/s your dog or not,many people in this Forum are there to pick up the pieces after unwanted dogs/puppies have been thrown to the way-side.
If you are a responsible registered breeder,I might see a difference,but even then we don't need any more dogs in our shelters.

chico2
February 11th, 2004, 08:28 AM
Amaruq,I know what you mean,I feel the same way...Oh,to live with a cuddly"little" Grizzly or a pack of wolves:D Heaven!!
I will look into RD.Lawrences books..
I did not see the Red Fern movie,but if it is sad,I rather not,I like happy endings,with the wolves walking into the sun-set happily ever after...they are magnificent animals.But then again,I am amazed at the Red-Tailed Hawk coming to pick up a well-fed sparrow in my back-yard....
Nature is a wonderful thing,maybe not for the sparrow:p

1john44
February 11th, 2004, 08:29 AM
Where the red fern grows in one of those mixed happy, and sad. The poor puppy dies, but it has a good ending.

1john44
February 11th, 2004, 08:55 AM
You don't have to be a vet to have some commen sense! My degree is in accounting. I have never taken a class on vet medicine, but commen sense tells me that there is a dog population problem, so my dog doesn't need to have babies even though she is a full blooded lab! Second, after having dealt with one dog who had cancer because she never got fixed, commen sense tells me that I should have my future dogs fixed so that I don't have to do it again!!!!!!!!!! I took my child to the doctor for a fever, doctor told me to give them tylenol and no big deal, second child comes along, I don't have to run to the doctor for advice, I know what to do. COMMEN SENSE!!!!!!!!!:confused:

1john44
February 11th, 2004, 09:11 AM
I am not harressing you about it. I am trying to let you see that there are valid reasons for having it done. Your dog is male so you won't have to deal with the puppies, but no fence in the world is completely escape proof. I have a keashound that never tried to escape, but one day he smelled a female dog, and even though my back yard has a 6 foot fence he got out. I thank God he was fixed so I don't have to worry about any little puppies out there. Second, lets say for sake of this thread, that he can't get out of your backyard, so you never have to worry about any puppies, but what abouthis health? What about the cancers that can be prevented by having him fixed? Why would you not want to help prevent that pain and suffering in your dog?

1john44
February 11th, 2004, 09:14 AM
Apparently you don't have kids. Fevers can be caused by several things. When a child has a fever, it can be caused by the flu. Not much the doctors can do for flu. So you give them tylenol and wait it out. Second, my daughter has allergies and she often times runs a fever when they act up. Been there enough times to know it, and it simply takes one dose of tylenol and she is back up and running. Commen sense is knowing my children well enough to know the difference between a commen fever and something more serious.

1john44
February 11th, 2004, 09:27 AM
Ear infections as well as other infections have certain symptoms that you learn to watch for. It is people like you who run their kids into the doctors for antibiotics at every sniffle that is causing problems. Now this commen little problems are changing and becoming far more deadly. It is natural and healthy for a body to fight the infection of on its own if it can. This helps to build the immune system up. Funny thing is that since I don't rush my kids in for everything, they rarely get sick. The people I know who do rush them in, are for ever dealing with their kids illness's

1john44
February 11th, 2004, 09:35 AM
Well, this thread has degraded quickly. I will not allow myself to be drug down with it anymore. I am truly sorry that you are upset at anything I have said, and even more sorry that I lowered myself to this level. I will pray that you will gain some understanding and knowledge to the wisdom of having your dog fixed, and for your children. God Bless.

LavenderRott
February 11th, 2004, 09:38 AM
The assumptions we make are based on the posts you post. While argument is a good thing, you are stepping over the line when you start calling people nasty names and start using foul language on a public forum.

1john44
February 11th, 2004, 09:55 AM
I did make an assumption that she had no kids. But that was my mistake and I take full responsablity for it. However, I can tell when I am just going to get drug down a path that I don't want to take so I give up. Good luck if you can get through!:D

chico2
February 11th, 2004, 10:02 AM
MizzErica.. Wow! Nobody is telling you what to do,we just told you a little about reality out there..it is a cruel world for unwanted animals.
So calm down....
Most of the time we have fun in this Forum,trade experience with each other,but we have one thing in common,we love our animals which I am sure you do too.
Then we get questions like"Frenchy's"imagining this little puppy who can't even walk..and it is difficult to give advice other than,get him to a vet ASAP...

mona_b
February 11th, 2004, 10:12 AM
Yeah chico we usually do have fun on here.

BUT it only takes a few to screw that up.:rolleyes:

And name calling is not neccesary on here.We are adults on here.Or I would like to think so.

My 17 year old acts more adult then some on here.

No guys,not you regulars.:D

1john44
February 11th, 2004, 10:17 AM
I gotta tell you Mona, I have been called a lot of things in life but what she called me is a first. Guess she made the assumption I was a guy!!!!!:D

amaruq
February 11th, 2004, 10:38 AM
1John44...Your not a guy????Well blow me down!!!!! lol!

I don't run my kid into the doctors over fevers and sniffles either.
My kid made it to 16.

With the dogs and cats. I don't run them in unless I know there is nothing i can do to help them. There for while it was once a month.. But there was extreme circumstances.

As for Spay/neutering question. I live in a crappy neighbour hood when dogs or cats are bred they are either tossed into the dumpster or at the HS. Motzi...her litter didn't make it because she threw the rest of the pups in the dumpster....but all the pups were very ill...the 7 kittens were never found and presumed in the dumpster too. The 2 hamsters were frozen to the steps. No one can say for sure their dog won't get out...but making a litter of pups is irresponsible. There is no good reason not to have a dog spayed or neutered.....go take a look in the rescue shelters and in the HS and look those dogs in the eye. Or better yet go when they put the dogs down and see how over populated the places are. I have never had litter of pups other then on the farms. But I had no control over that as I was a girl. No one wants to see more dogs go to these places. Its heartbreaking to go see these dogs and see how much they want to live but can't because the place is too full. Sad very sad! :( :(

1john44
February 11th, 2004, 10:43 AM
Nope very much a woman, and have been since the day I was born! The name comes from a bible verse! Didn't think about people assuming I was a guy! guess i could change it if you want me to!

amaruq
February 11th, 2004, 12:16 PM
Nah don't change it!!!!

1john44
February 11th, 2004, 12:22 PM
Glad you think so! I picked that verse out because it is something I am trying to remember everyday! This helps me to think abou it more!

mona_b
February 11th, 2004, 01:16 PM
I think she did too....Hey,that means she made the "assumption" that you were a guy.LMAO....Oh I crack me up.:D

But I do remember you saying in one of your posts that you are a woman.

Who says blondes are not bright.:D

1john44
February 11th, 2004, 01:20 PM
Bright is all in your perception! I think MOST of the people I have talked to in these threads are very BRIGHT. I have really enjoyed chatting with most of you!

mona_b
February 11th, 2004, 01:26 PM
I feel the same way:)

I have had a great time on here.I have also learnt alot on here.

I have had alot of laughs too.

Hubby said he's going to become an internet widow cause I'm on here alot.This site the most.So I asked him,would it be better if I was in a chat room?You should have seen the look.So I told him he should be thankful i'm not and that I'm on a clean(semi clean) site talking about pets.:D

1john44
February 11th, 2004, 01:31 PM
My husband is lucky. I spend all day at work on the computer so I rarely get on it at home. I work for a construction company so right now is the dead time, and I surf the web all day trying to stay awake!

mona_b
February 11th, 2004, 01:34 PM
LOL.

I would so the same:D

1john44
February 11th, 2004, 01:37 PM
I was a little shocked when I discovered most of you are from Canada! I have never been there and that is one of mine and my husbands future plans. We will go to Canada on vacation. We ahve even talked about packing up and moving up there. Tired of the hussle and bussle down here! We like the country and peace and quite! (well, when you block out the meow and bark it is quite!)

wAggie
February 11th, 2004, 02:29 PM
LMAO @ Mona!

I gotta tell that one to my bf... pets.ca is #1 on my list... along w emails.. :D


sorta glad we had a thread-jacking.. lol ;)

melanie
February 11th, 2004, 02:57 PM
oh dear, what a sad thread. i feel really sad whenever i see this type of thread. Mizzerika, please note that most replies were actually giving straight advice, go to a vet, keep it warm ect (read my 2nd and 3rd post). now we said go to a vet, simple advice and good advice, that is what was originally sought with no guarantees given on the delivery of the reply, and it is common sense that if an animal has a hole in it and a bad smell it needs to go to the vet immeadiatly. and everyone, i find that people can be quite harsh to each other on the internet in these sort of spaces, i think it is because the face to face aspect is gone, and that we are in our homes and will never meet the person we speak to. so lets all kiss and pat our pets, and realise how lucky we are to have such wonderful creatures touch our lives.:D :D

Heather MH
February 11th, 2004, 03:16 PM
I know I am jumping in at the end but....
Here's my 2 cents of the day

I think alot of things are written with a smile or atleast a feeling of concern, but the reader could interpert it to be said with a frown. It's like road rage sometimes people make mistakes driving and could be sitting in their car thinking "oh I am so sorry" but the person you just accidentally cut of is thinking "what a jerk, doesn't she know how to drive" When you aren't looking directly at a person you don't exactlly what they are meaning. Body lauguage has alot to do with a conversation.

I definaly think alot of help can come from this board, I have certainly received alot. When you ask a question you have to be prepared for the answer. Take a second and look at what is being told to you don't instantly get angry because its not what you were hoping to hear. If someone is telling you to take your animal to the vet they are not doing it becasue they want you to spend the money and laugh at you they are saying it because it is what they feel is the right thing to do. I'm sure if most people who get angry on here would look back and read their thread after they cooled down they would see they missed some great information. People are to quick to get their backs up now a days!!!

Sorry that was more like 10 cents :) :D

1john44
February 11th, 2004, 03:20 PM
I agree. One of the classes I have had to take for my degree was about communication and how it has changed with e-mail. It is so easy to misunderstand because the tone, and all is gone. That is why I stopped and decided I wasn't going any deeper! I am ashamed that I allowed myself to go that far as it is, no need in making it worse. I came on here for some advice, made some internet friends and enjoy chatting with them. No need to ruin it with anger and hurtfulness!
:D :D :D :p :p :p

mona_b
February 11th, 2004, 03:31 PM
Well I'm right am I not wAggie?:D

So if your hunny says anything,definately tell him the same thing I did.:D ;)



Well said Heather:D

We all try to help.But the problem is that some people don't like to hear what we have to say.We give the best advise we can.We are animal lovers and are thinking of the animals best intrest.

None of us like to hear that an animal is suffering when it shouldn't be.And trust me,there have been quite a few.

And I do admit to being harsh at times.But of course there is a reason to be.It just ticks me off when I hear a dog/cat is VERY sick,but a person doesn't have the money to take them to a vet.It takes more then just feeding them and sheltering them.

chico2
February 11th, 2004, 03:35 PM
Well,Johnny:D I guess mizzErica told you !!!! I am surprised she was allowed on,oh well it takes all kinds:p
I am supposing you are in the US,or maybe waaay down under with the Roos like Melanie?
The site is Pets.ca and ca stands for Canada,there was even a girl on from Haiti and a girl US soldier in Iraq,trying to save a puppy she was not allowed to keep...so,we get around,which makes it interesting.

1john44
February 11th, 2004, 03:40 PM
Yup in in the US, Missouri actually. I didn't even stop to think about the CA just assumed it was part of the .com or .net thing! So is Canada big enough to hold a pet loving, child abusing person like me?

chico2
February 11th, 2004, 03:51 PM
Sure,lots of big empty spaces and friendly people from all over the world.:D
I have to comment on the blond thing....being from Sweden,I have been blond all my life(now mixed with whiteish grey!)
The fact is,most "dumb blondes"are brunettes ie.Pamela Andersson,Brittney Spears(or something like that),Marilyn Monroe(although I liked her),Jayne Mansfield etc...
oops..Chico is demanding attention,ouch!! His claws are in my chest...

1john44
February 11th, 2004, 03:54 PM
Hey now wait! I am a brunette (mixed with a lot of premature grey!)

I personally think most blondes that are "dumb" are simply playing that way to get others to do things for them. How much smarter can you get then that?

chico2
February 11th, 2004, 04:16 PM
oh well,what can I say:D
I am being serenaded by three cats....feeding time!!!!

mona_b
February 11th, 2004, 05:55 PM
The greyish white in my hair,I call it silver.As in silver fox.:D ;) ..Hehehehe.

OK OK,I call it stress.LOL.

wAggie
February 11th, 2004, 06:05 PM
It's time I add ... that I think I saw my first grey/white(?) hair this morning...

maybe it was the glare of the light... maybe... hopefully?

:eek: :eek: :confused: :confused: :( :confused:

1john44
February 11th, 2004, 09:05 PM
My husband swears his is just blonde highlights! He swears he doesn't have a single grey hair!

mona_b
February 12th, 2004, 07:59 AM
Well I have to be honest,I think men with salt/pepper hair are very handsome.

When I was younger I went out with a fireman.He was italian with black hair,and had some grey in it.He was in his 30's and looked real good.:D

Ok,now I'm really going off topic here.LOL

1john44
February 12th, 2004, 08:06 AM
Off the topic but a lot of fun! Problem with my husband is that his hair isn't black, it is dirty blonde, so you barely see the grey!

chico2
February 12th, 2004, 08:38 AM
Boy,I think I started something here:p
How about Richard Gere,all grey....mmm
Hubbie and I are both 60(going on 25)so we deserve our whiteish streaks,happy empty-nesters;)
But then again,we have these 3 furry little things,sometimes more demanding than our kids!

1john44
February 12th, 2004, 08:43 AM
I can not wait until that day! And I have a long way to go. But what about Sean Connery! WOW, somethings get A LOT better with age!

mona_b
February 12th, 2004, 08:52 AM
LOL @ chico.

Richard Gere?

OH YEAH BABY:D .I love that man:p


1john44.....I have a male friend who is blonde.He is greying on the sides alot.I think it looks reallllllllllllll good.;)

Way to go chico.Now i'm thinking of Richard Gere...Time for a cold shower.LMAO

And yes you did start something here.LOL

amaruq
February 12th, 2004, 09:02 AM
Gosh I been grey since early 20's. Not a good thing for a woman :( So i admit that I'm a bottle burnette that has grey haired moments :D

I like the people here as I feel I have more in common with them. You all seem to have the same ideas about raising our 4 legged friends.

I know some things but I find every day there is more to learn about them. Famous quote " Expect the unexpected" That has been the story with mine. What's simple isn't and what's a disaster really isn't.

1john44
February 12th, 2004, 09:08 AM
Don't feel bad, I was greying at 14! My brother was in the Army and went to Iraq during the first war, and boy that did it in for me! I did the bottle stuff for a while, and then decided that enough was enough. People pay a lot of money to have their hair frosted and highlighted, so I got it for free!

mona_b
February 12th, 2004, 09:46 AM
Funny you should mention that.I'm going to be streaking my hair today.Well my daughter will be helping.LOL

I put the hat on my head and she pulls the hair out.

My grey is starting to get out of hand.All at the top too.:(



My kit cost $12 at Shoppers Drug Mart.:D

1john44
February 12th, 2004, 09:48 AM
With my luck, if I tried it myself, I would end up with purple hair!

amaruq
February 12th, 2004, 10:19 AM
lol I like purple!!!!!

1john44
February 12th, 2004, 10:27 AM
I like it as a color, but not as my hair color!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

chico2
February 12th, 2004, 10:53 AM
Amaruq,I was just reading in "Animals Voice"the OSPCA magazin,that RD Lawrence died in nov 2003 and his last book"The Northern Runner"about his wolf/malamute dog Yukon and their travels together.Another book that I will have to read..

Dee_petlover
February 12th, 2004, 11:26 AM
Saw that Reptiles came up in this thread so I thought I'd add my 2 cents.
I really love my turtle and when the opportunity presents itself I'd like to present the plight of the turtle.

I have a turtle, and just like other reptiles need a good habitat. adequate light heat and filtration are a must. An aquatic turtle (such as the common red-eared slider) needs water as deep as it is at least, A uva/uvb bulb is a must as well as a lamp for heat (has to be 2 separate lights) a strong filter and a basking area where it can completely haul out and dry off completely (without this they can develop fungus etc..)The minimum tank size for a small turtle is 20 gallons, add another turtle and increase that by 20 gallons. Turtles can become dinnerplate size eventually and live 30-40 years, outgrowing commercial tanks available on the market. They need a really varied diet including vegetables, fruit, live food and vitamins. They are like other reptiles--environment is everything.

there are many turtles when not given proper care develop things like metabollic bone disease (soft shell) which is very painful for the turtle.

Turtles are abused in the pet trade and most pet stores try to sell you a little container with no heat and light (a deathbowl!). They are not allowed to be sold in many petstores due to salmonella and are not great for small children and definitely not in the same house as an infant. It is so unfortunate that well intentioned people are given misinformation by pet stores who they believe to be experts on the animals they sell. They seem to want to make a quick buck, but if they gave the right information they would have people who really wanted the turtle and would spend in the neighbourhood of $200.00 on equipment as well!

A turtle or any other reptile that has lived in captivity should never be released into the wild as it does not have what it takes to survive and if it does survive can harm the native species of the area.

I am one of the people who were given misinformation from a pet store and fortunately learned a lot on my own and I would never buy a reptile at a petstore ever again now that I have the info. Reptiles are NOT disposable pets!

For anyone that is interested in a turtle or any type of reptile there are rescue societies out there where you can get one if you are willing to give it what it needs.

Hope this wasn't too off topic! I know all of you out there care greatly for animals and this kind of information I hope might save another poor turtle from inadequate care.

_frenchy101
February 12th, 2004, 11:31 AM
well hi everyone
glad to see everyone is still posting
sorry it has taken me so long
just got my lil baby back from the vet
hes doing fine and is going to make it
i might be taking it wrong but it seems people can be very rude
for one when i say im going to do something ......i do it
i may be many things but a liar is not one of them
my grandfather may have set his ways but it doesnt mean he doesnt love his dogs
yes he hasnt had them fixed or had their shots
BUT YES HE BUYS FOOD..............A/B 300 -400 LBS A MONTH IF NOT MORE
they get fed 3x's aday not including the wonderful gravy that goes with ............he may not have seemed like he was caring but he is .............its not very nice to judge people
and aparently there have been a few to judge me as well
my grandfather is not rich but he has enough money to live
he pays his bills has gas and wood burning stove and yes big freakin deal he has the internet so he can read the news.........oh may i add he has a phone to haha
newaz ...........my grandfather is 75 yrs old still very healthy and works hard every day so do not be judging people
some people dont have it as easy as others
i have never asked him for a dime and never will b/c i was taught that in order to make it in this world you have to work hard
so dont act like i had the money b/c i didnt
but i did get my puppy to the vet and they got him fixed up
they started him on steroids for his back and he is starting to walk
as for the stomach they gave me a cream to put on it but for the most part it is healing up and no it doesnt smell anymore
hes eating very well and is so playful i love it
i really do
well thanx to everyone evan to the ones i thought as being rude
i may be wrong on that and if i am i am very sorry and will apolagize in advance

Lucky Rescue
February 12th, 2004, 11:53 AM
Glad to hear the little puppy is feeling better!

Just for the record, I cannot find any post where anyone called you a "liar" or implied you are one.

No one said your granddad doesn't love his dogs. But loving them is not enough, just like merely feeding them is not enough - they need to be taken care of too! Many people profess to love their animals, yet keep them in terrible conditions and don't even realize it. That is where education comes in.Your grandfather may be 75, but that is not too old to learn.

One thing I just have to ask: You say your grandfather buys up to 400 POUNDS of dog food a MONTH. How many dogs does he have???:eek:

If he has enough dogs to eat 400 pounds of food a month, how many are pregnant or nursing litters? How many are sick, diseased, full of worms or other parasites, or injured? No one could begin to take proper care of that number of dogs, no matter how good their intentions are.

Another thought - what happens to all of them when he is unable to continue living on his farm, and there are countless dogs there, mating,whelping and raising litters? Not many options for them.:(

mona_b
February 12th, 2004, 01:52 PM
I'm also glad that puppy is doing better.

VERY well said LR.



You say we shouldn't judge your Grandfather.How can we not.Dogs are not fixed.Females having puppies.Puppy getting sick but couldn't go to the vets cause he couldn't afford it.And no shots.That is NOT good dog ownership at all.

Like LR said,it takes more then just feeding them.And in my eyes,if you can only do that,then you are not a good dog owner.It takes more.

My dad is an 82 year old European set in his ways.But trust me,I have changed some of them.

chico2
February 12th, 2004, 03:17 PM
I guess the"liar"part was from me,although I did not exactly say liar,just that she might not be telling us the truth about bringing the pup to the vet:(
Anyway,Frenchy also told us how poor they were and had no transportation,that's why I doubted her word.
If the puppy is now doing fine,that's great and hopefully grand-dad will fix all the other dogs one day,so there will be no more sick puppies.She also mentioned GD is not well and I am glad he's now healthy..75 is not that old,now that I am 60:)

1john44
February 12th, 2004, 03:30 PM
Frenchy, I haven't been posting here very long, but I have already seen at least two cases where the person said they were going to do something but never came back on. Because it took so long for you to post agian, the easiest thing to assume was that you weren't going to take the puppy. Nothing against you personally, just what history seems to show. I am very pleased you proved that wrong.:)

So what did the vet say caused his problem? Just underdevelopment, or something more?

_frenchy101
February 12th, 2004, 05:11 PM
there are 3 males 1 female and by the way 3 of them use to be mine when i lived at my mothers
but i felt they would be better off being able to run loose on a farm then be tied up in the city so they dont get hit my a car
both my males had been fixed and we had been breeding the female b/c she is full blooded but we stopped when i moved away and got married and she never got fixed
then we have my puppy
oh i guesse you guys do have a point
i should have made things a little more clearer when im talking to people i dont even know
all my dogs had their shots when me and my mother had them
but surely you cant tell me im suppose to tell you all that when im upset over my puppy
he may not take them to the vet but that doesnt make him a bad person
intill now he had never had to ..........not really anyways
none on them have ever been sick and he got most of them from me
yes he buys that much food b/c these are all very big dogs and he feeds them well ........not saying he uses all of it but it is cheaper to buy in bulk
and as for terrible conditions .........i dont think 95 acres even relates to bad conditions for a dog to be in
and what do mean when he is unable to live on his farm
u mean when he gets to old or moves on from this cruel world to a much better place .............its called there are 2 sons 1 daughter 3 grandchildren so far and 1 great grandchild who will be here anyday
as for my family besides my soon to be expected i have my husband and 3 stepsons and 1 daughter
not to say my grandfather is more than loved as will everything be well taken care of ........which i believe was going a lil to far
and why should you not judge my grandfather or anyone else for that matter
pretty simple dont you think
imean really when did god put anyone in charge of judging people but i guesse you'd be suprised how careless people are
no one said he couldnt afford it i said i couldnt afford it very big difference in wording or how poor we were just how poor i am
im 19 just getting started in life dont have a job my husband is wrkin his butt off trying to make it for us intill i can get a job so yes i would say i couldnt have afforded to take an animal to the vet b/c i cant even buy everything i need for my baby
thats why my grandfather is helpin me out and at least someone is b/c im not the type of person who asks for a handout
enough a/b all this the vet had said where there was so many pups of course you are going to have the runt and underdeveloped one of course werent exact words but to the point
but my baby is doing great
if you had seen him when i first posted and seen him today when i brought him home you would be amazed im so glad things worked out

Lucky Rescue
February 12th, 2004, 05:35 PM
4 dogs are eating 400 lbs of food a month? Wow. 100 pounds of food a month EACH? Are you sure they aren't Siberian tigers?;)

As for you breeding your "full blooded" bitch and then never bothering to fix her and letting her run loose while in heat - I'd rather not get into that..:rolleyes: The world does not need more litters of mutts to be gassed at shelters. 'Nuff said.

What will you do with this litter of puppies? And the next and the next.....? And when these puppies start breeding and you have 4 or 5 litters around - what then?

Believe it or not, we have nothing against you personally (how could we when we don't even know you?) We are going on what you yourself are saying, and are trying to educate you.

1john44
February 12th, 2004, 08:59 PM
Frenchi, what did the vet say caused the puppies problems? Is it something he will have forever, or just one of those strange things that will go away? I always hate to hear when it is one of those things they will have forever, because then I wonder if I am really doing the poor thing good by dragging it out, or if it is something that they would have been better to have been put down.

amaruq
February 13th, 2004, 08:07 AM
Frenchie:

I been silent till now.....now your saying you don't have stuff for the baby and yet you got the internet? You couldn't help the pup but you had the internet. I'm sorry but my sympathy level for you is ZERO!!!! I'm glad you got the puppy help. I'm also very glad the pup is doing better. But what about next time? Or the time after that? You said the female was purebred? Did you mate it to a pure bred of the same breed? I doubt it.....so why isn't it spayed?
Girl I'm twice your age and a bit more and been around the block a few times.....you are gonna have to get your priorites straight. Don't got money...don't have animals! Don't got money... don't have no more kids. Kids and animals are 2 of the most expensive things you will ever have.
Another thing to consider...are you gonna have enough time for the pup when the baby comes? I doubt it...... Life is tough girl better learn from it now.

chico2
February 13th, 2004, 08:29 AM
Amaruq...WoW!!!:)

1john44
February 13th, 2004, 10:09 AM
Okay, everyone just needs to take a deep breathe, and calm down. To much anger and hate going on right now.

Lucky Rescue
February 13th, 2004, 10:10 AM
Now I've seen enough...
Buh bye!:D

mona_b
February 13th, 2004, 10:41 AM
Ummmm I was going to mention the baby part.LOL


No hate....Just anger...How can we not be?

It's posts from people like this that anger us.How can we help but be angry.:mad:

1john44
February 13th, 2004, 10:45 AM
Anger on your part, but it appears to be hate on her part. She came on asking for advice about her dog, and then bites back when you give it. Seems like hate to me.

amaruq
February 13th, 2004, 11:16 AM
I'm not angry but concerned for all involved.

She needed a dose of reality.

19 yr old..she is still a baby herself and might not know any better.

After the baby comes and she has got the pup and this expense hits and that expense hits..Reality will hit that girl real hard. I feel sorry for her in that way.

Lord knows I had to learn things..many of them the hard way. But 2 things never suffered. My animals or my kid.

Heather MH
February 13th, 2004, 11:25 AM
I am not disagreeing with you guys about the care of the animals.
But I do remember her saying that she was just visiting her grandfather and didn't have internet herself.
Now her grandfather not having the money or concern to fix the dogs and having an internet is another situation. I can tell you that I don't have a computer at home but I do have 2 very happy puppies who get all they deserve, they only reason I get to talk to you fine people is because I sit on a computer all day long at work but shhh don't tell anyone.:)
The baby not having everything is another thing, and thats all I'm going to say about that.
;)

1john44
February 13th, 2004, 11:40 AM
I won't say anything if youdon't. I do have a computer at home, but rarely get on it, because I spend so much time here at work on the computer. ;) But winter is the slow season for construction, so I have to do somethign to stay awake!

I was 18 when I had my first child. It was hard, but we made it. We knew we didn't have the money for much, so we didn'thave a dog back then.

She said that her grandpa was helping her out, but she didn't ask him too. Maybe because he was doing so much for her already, she didn't feel it was right to ask him to spend more money on the puppy. I can understand that. As far as having everything for the baby, well they have a lot of neat things out on the market now a days, but reality is, you don't need even 1/4 of it! As long as she can provide food, and love, everything else will fall into place. Diapers can still be the cloth ones if disposable are to expensive, and she can breast feed, if formula is to much and so on! So I don't stress to much when she said that, cause it doesn't take much to make a baby happy!

Lucky Rescue
February 13th, 2004, 11:41 AM
Well, since she is not being truthful about at least one thing (4 dogs eating 400 lbs of food a month which I never got an answer about??) who knows what else is not true?

She also said a few of them were HER dogs that she foisted on Granddad, including an intact bitch left to run loose and get pregnant. If anyone is hard done by, it's Granddad!

1john44
February 13th, 2004, 12:14 PM
Didn't she say she had heard enough? Guess not? Anyway we weren't harressing the poor pregnant girl. We gave advice. I think you are the one who is harressing people.

mona_b
February 13th, 2004, 12:20 PM
Ok,now I'm going to say something about the baby.

Sure there are alot of things out there that babies don't really need right away.But babies are not cheap.She said she didn't even have stuff for the baby.What if the baby gets sick.Needs medication.Or what if the baby is born with medical needs that are not cheap?That I know all about.

I was just shy of 20 when I had my daughter.I raised her on my own since birth.HER dead beat so called father left me when I told him I was pregnant.She is a pill baby.I didn't find out I was pregnant untill I was 6 months.My sister was in the delivery room.Pregnant herself.LOL.Daughter and nephew are 4 months apart in age.My daughter was born with a club foot.She was 2 days old when she had her first cast.Surgery at 3 months.Her first pair of walking shoes cost me $100.They were like the regular walking shoes but the toe part was not there.I was paying this every month and a half.Why?Cause her good foot was growing faster and the toes were hanging out.Not a good thing.She is now a teenager.17 next month.She goes through shoes so bad.She now uses an insole that was prescribed and made for her from orthapedics.How much?$500.No there was no way to get out of it.This is my daughter that I would not put a price tag on.As for breast feeding,nope.She didn't take to my boobies.:D ....I did this on my own.And I also had my cat and dog to boot.Vet care,food,vaccinations.

There,I said what I had too......As always:D

1john44
February 13th, 2004, 12:24 PM
I don't know where she lives at, but I didn't worry to much about the medical expense because in the us all kids are eligable for insurance. So she won't have to worry about that. The biggest concern would be for the transportation, but since she said that he grandpa loved her so much, I am sure that he will feel the same way about her child, and if the baby is sick, he will get it to the hospital!
:D

amaruq
February 13th, 2004, 12:24 PM
(((mona-b and daughter)))

Your a good mom!

chico2
February 13th, 2004, 03:29 PM
There is actually only one person in this Forum who is rude,no need to mention names...
But there is one thing,when people ask for advice they will get it,not to make them feel good,but to maybe make them see the error in their ways and also try to help the animal in trouble.
That's what is done here!
If you don't like the advice,there is nothing we here in computer-land can do about it.
As for babies,I can imagine today,when everybody has to have everything,even by law,as a carseat..it can get very expensive.
My first baby slept in a drawer and I was very young and alone,but he grew up to be a caring mature adult(except when he wanted a kitten for his Jack Russel!)
But,we don't really need to hear anyones life story,nothing excuses allowing a bitch(I hate that word!)to have one litter after another.

1john44
February 13th, 2004, 03:37 PM
I know! I hate hearing that word even when it is used as it should be. But to hear it the way she used it just makes me cringe. I was raised to believe that there are enough words out there to effectively explain how we feel without reverting to cuss words. The ones who felt the need to use these words used them because they were not educated enough to find the proper words to express themselves!

chico2
February 13th, 2004, 04:07 PM
Oh,Oh now you opened another can of worms:p
Now we'll get an education education:D

1john44
February 13th, 2004, 04:10 PM
OOOPS! Sorry, should I quietly discipline myself? Bad girl!:D

mona_b
February 13th, 2004, 04:39 PM
Thank you amaruq....:)


1john44, not everything is covered by insurance though,unfortunately.:(


As for you MizzErica.I suggest you watch that potty mouth of yours.If there is anyone rude in here it's you.If you don't like what is being said here then leave.If you read all of her first post,you would know why we are so upset.

And when you decide to leave........

don't let the back door hit you were the good lord split you.


:D

Dee_petlover
February 13th, 2004, 05:19 PM
I haven't been involved in this post from the beginning but I have been reading it over.

This does seem to have gotten nasty. Obviously not everyone in life has been brought up with the same set of skills and education. It seems like many people who have posted legitimately have concerns for what sounds like a bad situation for the dogs in this person and her grandfathers life. That said, this person was reaching out for help and her current situation is the way it is, the only thing she can do is improve it in the future. People don't want to do that when they are criticized harshly.

Food for thought: Educate not alienate!

Lucky Rescue
February 13th, 2004, 06:26 PM
Food for thought: Educate not alienate!

You must realize, some people are not interested in being educated.

They want a quick fix, and preferably one that will not cost them a cent.

Any attempts at education are met with belligerence and hostility.

At our rescue, we see this time and again. People wanting an easy answer to dump their animals, not get vet care, etc. When suggestions or alternatives are given, they get angry and abusive.

:rolleyes:

amaruq
February 13th, 2004, 06:40 PM
Yea I want to change the name for a female dog...Be first one to sign petition......um so new name for female dogs.....hmmmmm
ok this isn't so easy...I'm looking for a nice nuturing name.....vixen like the fox.....too sexy though......I like lovey.....you can add your thoughts :D

Lucky Rescue
February 13th, 2004, 07:39 PM
Let me see....cats are called "queens", so how about "duchess" or "princess" or "wenches"???:D

mona_b
February 13th, 2004, 08:00 PM
Hmmmmmm,i've been called a wench a few times.:D

1john44
February 13th, 2004, 08:07 PM
Go bigger call them emperess's. Boy I don't know if that is spelled right! That would be hard, but it is just like several other cuss words. THey start out as legitimate words, and they end up being filth!

We haven't heard from mizzthang so maybe Marko took care of it:D :D :D :D :D

wAggie
February 13th, 2004, 10:07 PM
hmm.. I must be the second youngest on here, or something.

I'm 22!

I moved out of my mom's house @ 19 with Chocolate, who was then 5 months... yes, the dog.

life WAS hard, it still is!

I've somehow managed to build my family as my lifestyle pertained.


I have *NO* idea how you think you can manage sharing responsiblity of those (four 100lbs?) dogs plus a baby that's due so soon...

one income from the father cannot be enough, mind you, welfare can provide for your child if need be so you go back and get your high school diploma.


FYI, a computer is an investment but it IS expensive, I share my internet connection bc I can have zero patience for dial-up & cable internet access is a good $45+/month.

instead I split the costs with my neighbours.


btw, "queen" or "duchess" sounds like a wonderful idea!!

;)

Lucky Rescue
February 13th, 2004, 11:15 PM
"Mizzthang" has been banned.

1john44
February 14th, 2004, 03:22 AM
That is good to know!

mona_b
February 14th, 2004, 08:08 AM
Yeeeehawwwwwww.


Thank you Marko.


(((((((((Marko))))))))

:D

amaruq
February 14th, 2004, 08:27 AM
Whew! :D