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What Dog food do you use and why?

ChancesMom
August 31st, 2006, 12:26 AM
We used to use Bil-Jac but then I recently switched over to Chicken Soup for the Pet Lover's Soul in order to offer our boy a better diet as well as get away from the corn as I think that he may have a corn allergy.

He seems to like it and I do not want to keep changing foods, but am wondering what good dog foods are out there and how to really know that it is quality.

Also, my dog recently was diagnosed with Invertabral Disc Disease, so I am wondering if I should switch him over to the senior forumal as it contains Glucosamine hydrochloride and Chondroitin sulfate.

He is 6.

Thanks a bunch!
Chance's Mom

Prin
August 31st, 2006, 12:39 AM
Don't bother with foods with glucosamine in them. If you want to supplement, get supplements.
The food companies generally don't add enough to make it beneficial.:rolleyes:

I feed Solid Gold Wolf King (http://www.solidgoldhealth.com/products/showproduct.php?id=62&code=170) to my doggies. I was looking for a food with the best ingredients, and with no wheat/corn
(for Jemma's allergies) and no chicken (for Boo's intolerance). I really liked Timberwolf Organics Ocean Blue (http://www.timberwolforganics.com/product_p/ob.33.htm) but they don't
sell any anywhere near here, so SG it was. :) I love what the SG has done for my doggies.
Their coats are shiny and soft and they have really good energy levels, and my vet bills have drastically reduced. :thumbs up

Here you can see the shininess:
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h213/Princi9009/Jemma%20Boo%20June%20July%202006/IMG_1460.jpg

Prin
August 31st, 2006, 12:43 AM
Oh, and 6 is not a senior. ;) I prefer regular foods to senior foods because senior foods are always loaded with fillers for some reason. (Fillers make doggies fat and don't make them healthy).

ChancesMom
August 31st, 2006, 01:47 AM
Wow! Your dogs are beautiful!!!

This is where you can read about the food that I am using, if you are interested:

http://www.chickensoupforthepetloverssoul.com/formulasnew.php?PL=4&S=Dogs&FT=Dry%20Food

The glucosamine amounts seem to be the same as in the supplements... unless I am reading it incorrectly.

Violeta
August 31st, 2006, 10:16 AM
Just wondering, for the people that use kibble, do you guys feed ONLY kibble or other stuff is given to the dog for a more divers / complete diet?


And just so I answer this question, I will feed either Merrick, Solid Gold or Timberwolf, whatever my dog will like. :pawprint:

technodoll
August 31st, 2006, 10:17 AM
to make this easier to track, i just posted a poll :)

http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=30251

(not thread-jacking, just thread-adding!) :)

SnowDancer
August 31st, 2006, 12:11 PM
ChancesMom - re the glucosamine in Chance's food being same % as in supplements, I guess that would assume you would be feeding Chance the amount of food recommended by the manufactuer - resulting, possibly in one very chubby Chance! I know very few people who feed the suggested amount - due partly to dog biscuits, fruit, vegetables, etc. I know my Eskie would be huge - and he has just lost 5 lbs. And I was only feeding him 1/2 of daily recommended amount - had to cut back to 1/3.

rainbow
August 31st, 2006, 12:57 PM
I fed my boys Nutro at first then switched to Timberwolf Organics. I switched to Solid Gold because TO kept putting the price up and it was getting too expensive. Also, on TO and on Solide Gold their poops were soft. I switched to Innova a month ago and we now have good poops...firm, smaller and less of them.

Prin
August 31st, 2006, 01:04 PM
The glucosamine amounts seem to be the same as in the supplements... unless I am reading it incorrectly.
The supplements are 1200mg for glucosamine and 400mg chondroitin? Because in this food it's 1200 and 400mg per kilo of food. A kilo is a LOT of food.:shrug: :o

Puppyluv
August 31st, 2006, 01:08 PM
Just wondering, for the people that use kibble, do you guys feed ONLY kibble or other stuff is given to the dog for a more divers / complete diet?


And just so I answer this question, I will feed either Merrick, Solid Gold or Timberwolf, whatever my dog will like. :pawprint:

When I fed kibble, I fed Wellness Whitefish and Sweet Potato, and gave her yogourt, and veggies (her fave snack).
Now I feed raw, with some foodie add ins (frozen bagels, frozen bananas, yogourt etc), I switched because it was back when Wellness first switched their formula, and Layla, a lab mix, who eats ANYTHING, wasn't impressed, and her poops got weird.

MyBirdIsEvil
August 31st, 2006, 03:13 PM
I feed my dogs Timberwolf Organics, and they're doing really well on it.
They're almost done with a 16 lb bag (which I must say lasted awhile for a 53 lb and 55 lb dog), and their coats are already better and they're putting on a lot of muscle.
I had them on Dick Van Patten's duck/potato formula at one time, and they looked really good and had a nice coat, but I switched to chicken soup for the soul 'cause I could get it in town.
I must say I am NOT impressed with the chicken soup. Both of their coats became dull and they started shedding A LOT. My one dog I think is allergic to chicken and she started getting red spots and rashes. My other dogs skin didn't look that great either though he's not allergic to anything. They also lost most of the muscle they'd put on while on better food, even though I wasn't exercising them less. They also had to eat TONS of this food to keep their weight right. They ate a fair amount of the puppy food, but one day the store was out of puppy food so I gave them adult (they're older puppies anyway), DEAR GOD they ate so much I ran out within a week and a half!

I'd have to say if you're going to buy lower end holistic food, buy nutro ultra, 'cause my dog didn't do great on this, but she at least kept on a lot of muscle and had a lot of energy.

The best bang for your buck would be Solid Gold, it has really good ingredients
and it's not unbelievably expensive.

Timberwolf Organics would probably be the best, but unless you live in the U.S and can get free shipping by ordering online, it's probably overpriced. If you qualify for free shipping, it actually comes out to about the same price as the other foods (cheaper than the other foods if you're ordering them online).

Dick Van Patten has good foods if you want something priced inbetween Solid Gold and Timberwolf, and it's unlikely to aggravate allergies.

I also give my dogs pieces of cooked meat (without salt and stuff), cooked eggs, and yogurt along with their food, but no supplements. Oh yeah, fruit and veggies too. Walnut LOVES pears, melons and other soft fruits. My other dog isn't super interested in them.

rainbow
August 31st, 2006, 03:34 PM
Dick Van Patten has good foods if you want something priced inbetween Solid Gold and Timberwolf, and it's unlikely to aggravate allergies.



Canidae is also a good food that is less expensive. I can't get it where I live so I chose Innova which is also good and less expensive. ;)

ChancesMom
September 1st, 2006, 08:12 PM
Yes, one kg is a lot... the supplements that I were looking at were less than what was on the dog food, so I was thinking half, but now that I actually am awake and looking at the weight of a kg, it is a lot less, but may still be helpful?

I am not trying to be a low end holistic, just a holistic without corn that is going to be good for Chance.

My bf's sisters vet highly recommended Chicken Soup, and when I looked at the ingredients I liked what I read so I switched for his health... They do not sell it locally so I purchase it on petfooddirect.com as they seem to have the cheapest shipping prices.

I do not want to keep switching his food, but if what I am feeding him is not as healthy as I thought I will look into other brands.

Thank you.
Chance's Mom.

MyBirdIsEvil
September 1st, 2006, 11:29 PM
I do not want to keep switching his food, but if what I am feeding him is not as healthy as I thought I will look into other brands.

Chicken Soup's ingredients look ok at first glance (that's why I bought it), but I think there's some fillers and other weird stuff.
What scared me was the fact that my dogs weren't keeping much muscle on and they were having to eat huge amounts of it. A good food shouldn't cause a dog to lose muscle, I've never even seen a really bad food do that.

I'm not saying this will happen to your dog, but both of my dogs did poorly on it.

rainbow
September 2nd, 2006, 12:12 AM
Chicken Soup for the Pet Lover's Soul
Adult Dog Formula
Enriched with Antioxidants Vitamin E and Selenium
Helps Clean Teeth and Reduce Plaque
Naturally Preserved



Formulated to enhance an adult dog's health and happiness while preparing them for their golden years.

Feeding Guideline (standard measuring cups/day)
Weight (lbs.) Standard Measuring Cups/Day

10 or Less 1/2 - 1
10 - 20 1 - 1 1/2
20 - 30 1 1/2 - 2
30 - 40 2 - 2 1/2
40 - 60 2 1/2 - 3 1/3
60 - 80 3 1/3 - 4 1/4
80 - 100 4 1/4 - 5


Guaranteed Analysis
Crude Protein 24.0% Minimum
Crude Fat 14.0% Minimum
Crude Fiber 3.0% Maximum
Moisture 10.0% Maximum
Sodium 0.3% Maximum
Zinc 150 mg/kg Minimum
Selenium 0.4 mg/kg Minimum
Vitamin E 300 IU/kg Minimum
Omega-6 Fatty Acids * 2.2% Minimum
Omega-3 Fatty Acids * 0.4% Minimum

* Not recognized as an essential nutrient by the AAFCO Dog Food Nutrient Profile.

Calorie Content: 3,593 kcal/kg (336 kcal/cup) Calculated Metabolizable Energy.

AAFCO Statement
Animal feeding tests using Association of American Feed Control Officials procedures substantiate that Chicken Soup for the Dog Lover's Soul Adult Dog Formula provides complete and balanced nutrition for the maintenance of adult dogs.

Ingredients:
Chicken, turkey, chicken meal, ocean fish meal, cracked pearled barley, whole grain brown rice, oatmeal, millet, white rice, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), potatoes, egg product, tomato pomace, duck, salmon, flaxseed, natural chicken flavor, choline chloride, dried chicory root, kelp, carrots, peas, apples, tomatoes, blueberries, spinach, dried skim milk, cranberry powder, rosemary extract, parsley flake, yucca schidigera extract, L-carnitine, Enterococcus faecieum, Lactobacillus casei, Lactobacillus acidophilus, Saccharomyces cerevesiae fermentation solubles, dried Aspergillus oryzae fermentation extract, vitamin E supplement, iron proteinate, zinc proteinate, copper proteinate, ferrous sulfate, zinc sulfate, copper sulfate, potassium iodide, thiamine mononitrate, manganese proteinate, manganous oxide, ascorbic acid, vitamin A supplement, biotin, calcium pantothenate, manganese sulfate, sodium selenite, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), vitamin B12 supplement, riboflavin, vitamin D supplement, folic acid.


If your dogs are doing well on Chicken Soup then there is no need to change. But, just keep in mind that there are multiple protein sources in that food (chicken, turkey, ocean fishmeal, duck and salmon), so, if your dogs ever develop allergies it will be harder to figure out the source. ;)

OntarioGreys
September 2nd, 2006, 08:05 AM
THe Chicken Soup for the Pet Lover's Soul

regular adult formula Crude Protein 24.0% Minimum
Crude Fat 14.0% Minimum

Senior formula Crude Protein 22.0% Minimum
Crude Fat 12.0% Minimum

Senior formulas reduce the meat of food and replace with cheaper grains
Senior dogs need more protein from meats than adult dogs not less

So in order to maintain tones muscle mass and for cellular repair extra protein is needed , and toned muscles help to support joints, higher fats will help to keep the cells hydrated.

Physio therapy involves using exercise to strengthen and tone muscles to support injured joints, people and dogs lose muscle mass as they age and they tend to have more joint problems and their skin tends to sag as their cells lose elasticity and become dehydrated and recovery from injuries takes longer. Studies in dogs the last 10 years are showing that high protein upto 54% are aiding in keeping senior dogs more active and healthy. And no, it does not cause kidney problems instead improves kidney function as it helps to kill bacteria as long as the source in meat pretien not grains or soy

I have had a lab and bluetick, many of these hunting dogs have natural oils in their coat to act as waterproofing so their coats tend to be shiny already because of the existing oils, my bluetick back many years ago before holistic and premium foods were available had a stunning coat that shone in blue/green irridesence, he ate gravytrain and alpo(back then there was far more meat in these brands than now).
What I found was achieving a shine in a black dog with no natural oils in their coat, the choice of dog food is really telling

I feed EVO the red meat formula which is 42% protein and 22% fat I have 2 8 years olds and a 4 year old.



Maya is a greyhound which has no natural oiliness she also has Lupus an autoimmune disease which effects her skin which adds greatly to getting a nice looking coat.
http://www.mypetpages.net/artists/1731/0/42b386f361da469d25262e57b1b349be.jpg

My 8 year old boy took a bad fall on the track breaking his hock and injuring his back 5 years ago so keeping him well muscled in his senior years will be important in keeping him mobile and active. One of these days I need to get a video of him on him chasing squirrels and standing on his hind legs trying to keep sight of them when they escape into a tree, really amazing to see when you note just how front end heavy he is and that he has one bum hock that is not quite set straight. I used glucosamine and condroitin and msm supplements with him the first 2 years to help him recover from his injuries
http://www.mypetpages.net/artists/1732/0/bf9e94c5db1da2fc35dafae7e3d7b9b0.JPG

phoenix
September 2nd, 2006, 08:20 AM
I feed Canidae. It is much more economical than Solid Gold (near me, it is 57$ for a 40 lb bag, whereas SG wolf king is about 80$ for a 30 lb bag last I checked... and I wouldn't be feeding less either). It has great ingredients, many protein sources (this is the only bad part for those dogs with allergies, but mine don't have any)... it is a bit lower in good fat to bad fat ratio than SG. I've been really happy with it, and my dogs are in great condition.

I do supplement occasionally with chicken backs/necks, fish...and I give yogurt ('cause I have a very gassy boxer, but that is part and parcel of the breed's 'charm'!)

Angies Man
September 2nd, 2006, 09:57 AM
I feed Chicken Soup for the Puppy Lover's Soul.

It's okay. But seems to give my dog farts. :eek: And lots of poop. I got the big bag, so she's going to be eating it for a while, but when it gets down to the bottom third of the bag, I'll get her something else. Not happy about the farts, it indicates that there's indigestible filler in there.:yuck:

Angie eats it, I don't get the impression that it tastes really good to her tho, probably more boring than anything else. It is left plain in her bowl, and she can eat as much as she feels the need for.

Supplemented with yogurt, some homemade doggy chicken soup, a little popcorn (when I'm having some,) and some fairly hard dog bisquits.

vfrohloff
September 2nd, 2006, 11:19 AM
I had my guys on Chicken Soup for about 4 months and was not happy with it at all. Mind you, that was before I discovered Benny's intolerance to chicken. Gave them both wicked gas, to the point where it was embarrassing to invite people over because my house always smelled like dog farts. :yuck: Their coats also got very dull and flaky and they were pooping 3 soft mushy poops 3 times a day. I have them on Holistic Blend Lamb and Rice now and they're doing really well.

ChancesMom
September 2nd, 2006, 11:33 PM
Thank you for the feedback!

I appreciate it.

I am looking at a lot of different brands and like to read the different experiences.

Take care.
Chance's Mom

rainbow
September 3rd, 2006, 12:20 AM
Hope you find a food that your dog does well on. :fingerscr Keep us posted. :dog: :pawprint:

mafiaprincess
September 3rd, 2006, 08:08 PM
I feed SG wolf king with a tiny bit of barking at the moon. My girl has great muscle tone, and is also sily and shiny.

erykah1310
September 4th, 2006, 09:52 AM
Oddly, I feed Pedigree and my dogs are great. :shrug: Im satisfied with their general apperance and coat and so on. As is their vet.

I would like to change them to something much more nutritionally balanced and with less "junk" in it, but really... If it isnt broken dont fix it right???

Puppy is on a senior diet. He is doing great on it too. however it isnt Pedigree, and cost is high but he is healthier now.

OntarioGreys
September 4th, 2006, 02:42 PM
I would like to change them to something much more nutritionally balanced and with less "junk" in it, but really... If it isnt broken dont fix it right???


I could survive and do fine now just eating cheerios and milk, but over the years it will catch up to me as my diet is lacking in protein, fats , vegetable and fruit, if I was younger I would stop having menstrual periods due to the lack of protien my skin less elasticand hair would become dull and lifeless, I would loss muscle tone, my teeth would start falling out due to scurvy because I am not getting fruit and veggies, slowly I would start developing other health problems So the effects are not immediate they occur over time when the diet is not nutritionally complete.

Though premium foods may cost more to feed , in the longterm they can save money by reducing health costs attributed to poor diet. Senior diets formulas I absolutely won't use because they reduce the protein and replace with grains, senior dogs need more meat protein than adults not less.

technodoll
September 4th, 2006, 02:48 PM
yes... it's the long-term effects you have to watch out for. Barring those exceptional "george burns" cases, the vast majority of dogs feed a poor diet will begin the aging process MUCH sooner than those fed an optimal diet. dogs are not seniors at age 6, but rather at age 12. yet you see 6-yr old dogs exhibiting arthritis, loss of muscle tone, obesity, diabeties, fatty growths, cancer, dull flaky coats, etc - all this could be changed with a good, digestible diet low in grains and high in fresh foods. IMO it's just not worth the gamble. all the $$ saved now on cheap foods will eventually end up in the vet's pocket. :shrug:

mummummum
September 4th, 2006, 02:59 PM
:sorry: :offtopic: small threadjack here...
For all you GTA Timberwolf wannabe's like me ~ I just got an email from Global in the Beach(es) who tell me they hope to have Timberwolf Organics back on their shelves by the end of September.:fingerscr that this actually comes true.

erykah1310
September 4th, 2006, 06:06 PM
Idealy I would love to feed raw, and I have posted a few times about it as well as doing research and looking in on other forums with raw feeders. However, I am afraid that if i did start feeding raw, I would miss out on something essential to them

pitgrrl
September 4th, 2006, 06:35 PM
I feed Essex Cottage Farms Gastro Formula, which is basically a base that you add meat, eggs, and veggies to and make a meat loaf type thing. After years of dealing with colitis and other GI issues with my dogs, this food has been nothing short of a miracle. Their over all health has also gotten better on this food, and I like that I can control the meat source/type.

I also add yogurt, fish oil, and a Nupro joint supplement.......and then ofcourse there's all the snacks I share with them.

mafiaprincess
September 4th, 2006, 08:53 PM
IMO it's just not worth the gamble. all the $$ saved now on cheap foods will eventually end up in the vet's pocket. :shrug:

Prin has a thread in this forum about how What she spends on food now is what she use to have to spend to take her dogs to the vet.. So she has healthier dogs now due to better food.

My only non scheduled vet visit was when the groomer accidentally cut my dog. and she's been on great food since she was a bout 6 months old. Versus' I hear many people on poorer foods complain they are always at the vet. I'm happier to pay a little more for food and avoid the vet needlessly.

jawert1
September 4th, 2006, 08:59 PM
Not to jump in late, but I too feed Solid Gold Wolf King, to amazing coat, teeth and overall health results in my Shepherd mix and English Pointer. Both dogs are much MUCH healthier, my Shepherd's stomach inconsistencies have cleared up entirely, and both dogs are just happier in general.

Prin
September 4th, 2006, 11:19 PM
Prin has a thread in this forum about how What she spends on food now is what she use to have to spend to take her dogs to the vet.. So she has healthier dogs now due to better food.
Yeah, I did the math and the cost is the same, only now I spend a few hundred more on dog food and a few hundred less on vet bills for the two of them. I'd rather it that way- make them healthy rather than fixing them when they're sick.:)

Golden Girls
September 5th, 2006, 11:20 AM
Solid Gold here too :) Misti's on the Hollistic Potato and Fish and Brandi I just switched to Wolf King/Seagreens. They both lost tons of weight, their coat is soft and shiny and their energy level is wonderful.

And, if someone else cooks meat ... they each get a portion mixed in with their supper.

Ancona
September 5th, 2006, 03:03 PM
I am with Dachshund Rescue, for, good info on IVDD, research, treatments, on and on, go to dodgerslist , it is totally dedicated to this disorder in Dachshunds.


Sandi
Dachshund Rescue
Shelter Volunteer

Ancona
September 5th, 2006, 04:30 PM
What is your puppy eating?/


You aroused my curiousity


I have gone from Canidae, to Chicken Soup, now my dogs are on Iams

All from 4 to 10, I have seven, the 15 is on Purina N/F, she is on epakitin to remove extra phosphorous from her body and SAM E for her liver

I have to say, that my dogs do best on Purina One or Iams

Mom to 4 dachsies, one m in pin dachsie mix and a Feist Terrier mixed with Black mouth cur, my favorite

Sandi
Dachshund Rescue
Shelter Volunteer

A Registered Nurse

Sandi

meb999
September 5th, 2006, 04:57 PM
I have gone from Canidae, to Chicken Soup, now my dogs are on Iams
I have to say, that my dogs do best on Purina One or Iams



really?? First time I've heard of someone getting better results with iams or purina!!

I had better looking poops with a lower quality kibble, but the difference in coat, teeth, breath and overall smell have been dramatically better with the higher holistic foods.

Goldens4Ever
September 6th, 2006, 11:38 PM
Finding the right food can be a daunting experience!!!!! We have fed our three dogs several different foods throughout their life stages; always trying to find the best one. Marcy, our Cocker Spaniel who is now almost 14 years old, was on Iams for 12 years of her life; Goldie and Aspen (our golden retrievers) both started out on Eukanuba Puppy then switched to Science Diet Adult. Then I stopped listening to what the vets were telling us to feed them and started educating myself about dog food and happened to work with a man who sold Solid Gold.

After doing MUCH research, I and my family decided that Solid Gold was the line we trusted in. For a long time, I was very upset with myself that we were so uneducated about dog foods and were feeding them Iams/Eukanuba/Science Diet, as was reccommended by our previous vets. In addition, I had countless sleepless nights when I learned about the Iams/Eukanuba labs run by *&* and what those animals go through :mad: So, I knew our dogs needed a change!

We put Marcy on the Holistic Blendz because of her age and less active lifestyle. She is doing great on it! We no longer have to mix pumpkin with her food; her weight is great (always has been); she has good stools/bowel movements. Aspen, who was still a puppy, was placed on Wolf Cub, and Goldie was placed on Wolf King. However, Goldie & Aspen, both, seem have allergies of some sort, so it was suggested that they try the Hund-n-Flocken. I have read that some people do not fancy this particular product; however, they both are doing very well on it!

We often supplement Aspen's dry kibble with some of Solid Gold's canned food to give her some additional kcalories and protien. She is 1.5 years old and still eating 6 cups per day!!!!!!!! She is EXTREMELY active and SOLID MUSCLE. We were concerned about how much food she was still needing to eat, yet not putting on any fat, so we started mixing the new stuff called Barking at the Moon, as we were considering it for her due to it's high protein levels. But, we had a difficult time ordering it through our new holistic vet, so we kept her on the Hund-n-Flocken.

Over the past few weeks, I started adding cooked chicken breasts and cooked round steak to her food, which she thoroughly enjoyed; however, I noticed that her ears started getting red with little red dots. I immediately recognized this as an allergic reactions to one of the two meats (either the chicken or steak), so I discontinued that method. We are going to continue feeding her the 6 cups of Hund-n-Flocken and supplementing with Solid Gold canned food and the Green Cow tripe for now.

Today, I read on another thread that too much protein can cause liver damage...? What is the most protein a 65-70 lb. dog should consume in one day? I was interested in Steve's Real Food, but then got scared off again by the warnings about consuming raw meats. Our holistic vet is going to start carrying a raw meat-based diet shortly, but I cannot remember what it is called....natural something....?

ChancesMom
September 7th, 2006, 12:21 AM
Hi Goldens!

I think that there is some debate over whether or not a dog can consume too much protien if he is otherwise looking and acting healthy. I do not know enough about it to be able to get in on that debate...

It is too bad that your little one was having an allergic reaction... Most likely it was to the chicken as I was surprised to learn that there are quite a few dogs who are unable to eat chicken.

How did you go about finding a holistic vet? and what do you find the differences are between a holistic vet and a "regular" vet?

Thanks again!
Chance's Mom

Goldens4Ever
September 7th, 2006, 12:54 AM
Hi ChancesMom,

I don't think that many 'traditional vets' are familiar with the holisitic foods, such as Solid Gold, TimberWolf, Canidae, Wellness, etc. because they often are paid to endorse and sell: Eukanuba, Iams, & Science Diet. Even though, they are fully aware of the cruel animal experimentation that *P&* subjects animals to (they manufacture Iams/Eukanuba). But again, there is often something of monetary value in it for them in relation to endorsing and selling those 3 products.

I was told that traditional vets do not like the idea of holistic dog foods because they know that dogs (and cats) will be healthier on those foods, and that will, in-turn, decrease the revenues from their businesses. I have a hard time stomaching that ideaology; however, it may be true in some instances. I am not surprised that your vet (the non-holisitic one) was opposed to a raw meat-based diet. I think that it is possible, but very difficult to find a raw meat-based diet that really is GOOD and COMPLETELY SAFE.

Because of all the potential diseases from raw diets, it is something that many people, some vets included, may never feel good about. I did some thorough research a few weeks ago about raw meat diets and read a great article that, honestly, scared me. But again, there are some great raw meat diets out there. I would feel a little more comfortable feeding my girls a raw meat diet that was dehydrated or freeze-dried rather than in the actual raw form. Reason being is that the dehydration and freeze-drying processes excrude most, if not all, of the moisture from the meat, which is where the bacterium harbor.

We switched our 3 girls to a vet who is not completely and entirely 'holistic,' but does implement naturopathic interventions whenever possible and does sell holistic products. Some pertinent questions to ask this vet that you are considering would be: A) what foods do you recommend and why B) what is your stand on vaccinations and what types of vaccinations do you offer (some holistic vets believe that not all vaccines are necessary or healthy) C) what amount of protein, fat, & fiber he/she recommends for your dog(s).

You asked how to find a holistic vet. Well, they are quite sparse; however, more and more are entering into practice, fortunately. The internet would be my first source. But remember, the smaller the city you live in, the less likely there is to be a holistic vet, as you may need to seek out a larger city nearby, if possible. My second source would be going to a natural food pet store (if you have one) and asking someone who works there.

The biggest difference between the two types of vets is simply their philosophy in how to medically and nutritionally take care of animals. For instance, a holistic vet in Arizona would prefer to treat various bacterial infections with herbal remedies rather than chemically-based antibiotics and a holistic vet would recommend 'natural' pet foods like Azmira, Solid Gold, etc. rather than Eukanuba, Iams, Science Diet, etc.

Does this answer your questions?

Prin
September 7th, 2006, 01:44 AM
Today, I read on another thread that too much protein can cause liver damage...? What is the most protein a 65-70 lb. dog should consume in one day? I think that there is some debate over whether or not a dog can consume too much protien if he is otherwise looking and acting healthy. I do not know enough about it to be able to get in on that debate...
OntarioGreys posted new info that says that high protein doesn't affect anything (we all thought it was bad before). :shrug: And even seniors benefit more from higher protein diets than low protein diets.:)

technodoll
September 7th, 2006, 09:34 AM
I think that it is possible, but very difficult to find a raw meat-based diet that really is GOOD and COMPLETELY SAFE.

Because of all the potential diseases from raw diets, it is something that many people, some vets included, may never feel good about. I did some thorough research a few weeks ago about raw meat diets and read a great article that, honestly, scared me. But again, there are some great raw meat diets out there. I would feel a little more comfortable feeding my girls a raw meat diet that was dehydrated or freeze-dried rather than in the actual raw form. Reason being is that the dehydration and freeze-drying processes excrude most, if not all, of the moisture from the meat, which is where the bacterium harbor.


Goldens4ever...
Since you posted this in another thread, let me re-post my reply to your above remarks...

until you have actually FED a raw diet to your dogs for years, and have met others who do the same, and have frequented raw-feeding forums where thousands of members and hundreds of vets not only endorse the diet but also feed their pets such a diet with brilliant results for decades... then I suggest you not comment on something you have no knowledge about except from "readings on the internet". we all have our differences of opinions but it makes no sense to give an opinion on something you haven't tried yourself - right?

I won't get into the debate about "What did all the dog owners do before the advent of multi-million dollar dog food companies dogs through the milleniums ate what is natural for carnivores, raw meat, bones and organs". You can believe and feed what you want to your dogs, just please do not discourage others from feeding a raw diet just because *YOU* are afraid to try it

Now if anyone wants PROPER info on this very safe, very correct way of feeding your cats & dogs, just ask us folks who know what they're doing and we'll be glad to give fact-based, experienced advice. :pawprint:

pitgrrl
September 7th, 2006, 09:57 AM
I think that it is possible, but very difficult to find a raw meat-based diet that really is GOOD and COMPLETELY SAFE.


I think the thing that starts to become clear once one starts doing some research into various diets for their animals, is that none are completely safe. I certainly wouldn't call a lot of kibbles safe, as the long and short term effects on your pets health can be terrible.

Are there possible risks to feeding a raw diet ? Certainly, but so are there risks to any diet, so I think it is up to each individual to look at all the options, consider the potential risks and benefits and do what works for them.

Personally, I home cook my dog's meals and occaionally supplement with raw foods. I'll probably never go back to kibble as homemade or raw diets make more sense to me and my dogs do far better than on any kibble I have found. I know people who feed high quality kibble and their dogs are in great shape, others who feed a totally raw diet and have never had any problems. I think the point is making informed choices rather than just depending on the advice of one or two sources they may be ill informed or have their own agenda.

Goldens4Ever
September 7th, 2006, 12:56 PM
Wow. I certainly was NOT discouraging anyone from implementing a raw meat-base diet. I stated that I read things that scared me, but also stated that there are some good ones out there. If you look more closely at how I chose my words, it should be evident that I was simply stating why some vets (and people) MAY be against them. I, in no way, shape, or form, stated that they should be avoided. I also did not state that dry kibble is completely safe and is the best alternative. I did not adovcate for any particular 'type' of food. I am sorry that you got that impression. Look more closely at what I said:

[I][/I"Because of all the potential diseases from raw diets, it is something that many people, some vets included, may never feel good about. I did some thorough research a few weeks ago about raw meat diets and read a great article that, honestly, scared me. But again, there are some great raw meat diets out there. I would feel a little more comfortable feeding my girls a raw meat diet that was dehydrated or freeze-dried rather than in the actual raw form."

Where in there did I state that raw meat diets should be avoided???

Prin
September 7th, 2006, 01:17 PM
I think that it is possible, but very difficult to find a raw meat-based diet that really is GOOD and COMPLETELY SAFE. The only difference really between a well-fed dog on a raw diet and a badly-fed dog on a raw diet is knowledge.

How many kibble feeders don't have a clue of what they're feeding? How many would really feed their dogs a corn food if they knew what that meant?

Whether it's raw or kibble, nothing is entirely safe. Even if we REALLY did have a kibble that was 100% properly balanced for a dog, certain dogs might digest it differently and not get all the nutrients and end up deficient anyway. :shrug:

ChancesMom
September 7th, 2006, 11:39 PM
Thank you for the information on the holistic vet.

I am really glad that I found this group!

Nevada77
September 10th, 2006, 03:51 PM
[QUOTE=technodoll] dogs are not seniors at age 6, but rather at age 12. yet you see 6-yr old dogs exhibiting arthritis, loss of muscle tone, obesity, diabeties, fatty growths, cancer, dull flaky coats, etc [QUOTE]


Hi Technodoll,

I was told by someone at a pet store(employee) that my boy was a senior in late 2004, he was about 5 years then. I was shocked and quite taken aback. She said that about 5-6 years old dogs are considered seniors. I dunno but I believe that this is a bunch of crap.

Anyways I used to feed my boy Nutros Lamb and Rice, but then he started having some rear end issues. His hips were really giving him some problems and the vet told me that he did not have great muscle tone in his rear. I of course felt guilty and believed it was something that I was doing wrong. He gets lots of walks but doesn't get to run much as he will take off and he is aggressive with other dogs so he is always on a leash when we go to a park. Fortunately the new place we moved into in February has lots of space and no close neighbours so he has had alot more freedom to run and get more exercise.

When the pet store woman told me he was a senior I switched him to Nutros Large Breed Senior Formula. He seems to have reacted very well to this change. He has had no problems in the hips that I have noticed (it was real bad with him screaming the pain). I am just hoping that it was a issue that was not caused by a human, I sometimes fear that he may have been kicked.

Although he seems to be doing well I have begun to investigate and read the posts on thid site about alternatives to the kibble or some thing to add to his diet along side the kibble.

Nevada

Angies Man
September 27th, 2006, 04:54 PM
I feed Chicken Soup for the Puppy Lover's Soul.

It's okay. But seems to give my dog farts. :eek: And lots of poop. I got the big bag, so she's going to be eating it for a while, but when it gets down to the bottom third of the bag, I'll get her something else. Not happy about the farts, it indicates that there's indigestible filler in there.:yuck:

Angie eats it, I don't get the impression that it tastes really good to her tho, probably more boring than anything else. It is left plain in her bowl, and she can eat as much as she feels the need for.

Supplemented with yogurt, some homemade doggy chicken soup, a little popcorn (when I'm having some,) and some fairly hard dog bisquits.

Well, it's 7 weeks later, the big bag lasted that long. And thankfully:yuck: , we're down to about a two day supply. Angie is now just over 5 months old, in the 35 pound range on weight--and has grown some in the past 2 months. She seems right on target for weight--certainly not skinny at all.

The dog food seems to be okay, she doesn't seem to love it like she does the fancy botique-y dog food samples, but she eats it. It makes lots of poop! And lots of farts!:shrug: :yuck: And tomorrow, we're going to get some OTHER dog food--some of the fancy schmancy stuff from the doggy botique!

Cold weather is on it's way, I can't live with the doors wide open to air out the dog fart smell!!!!

x.l.r.8
September 27th, 2006, 06:52 PM
We have switched to Canidae, why? because I don't think we have any allergies, the ingredients were acceptable and the price is favourable for a large dog, what ever we were going to use it wasn't going to continue being Iams. He isn't overly excited about it but I think I'm feeling that way because he was eating 2-3 bowlfuls before (2 cups per bowl) and now he's eating roughly half, things were going well, poops getting smaller untill on a playdate last week he polished off another dogs bowl of Actrium, he liked it but were suffering a set back in the poo dept. but all in all he's taken to it well, and my neighbour who was away for a week commented on his look and she thought he seemed 'fuller'. So were going to continue and see where we go with all this information. I am slowly coming around to finding out it's not what I want but what is a good product and what Riley will happily eat. I think if we have a better year next year we will certainly think about raw but this year we have just about enough to cover ourselves.