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Wysong Archetype Canine/Feline Diet

meb999
August 25th, 2006, 09:52 PM
Anybody have any opinions on this food? It's not a baked or extruded kibble, but is dehydrated mix of meats and ground bones and vegetables.
You can feed it dry or rehydrated. It's both a cat food and a dog food.

I saw it at the store and was curious.....


Ingredients: Beef, Chicken, Beef Liver, Chicken Liver, Ground Bone, Condensed Whey Product, Fish Oil (Preserved With Mixed Tocopherols), Organic Mung Bean Sprouts, Organic Quinoa Sprouts, Organic Millet Sprouts, Organic Blueberries, Organic Apples, Plums, Barley Grass, Wheat Grass, Dried Kelp, Dried Seaweed Meal, Artichoke, Dried Enterococcus faecium Fermentation Product, Dried Bacillus subtilis Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus plantarum Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus lactis Fermentation Product, Dried Yeast Culture, Dried Aspergillus oryzae Fermentation Product, Dried Aspergillus niger Fermentation Product, Rosemary Extract, Sage Extract, Choline Chloride, Ascorbic Acid, Zinc Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Calcium Pantothenate, Thiamine Mononitrate, Copper Proteinate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin Supplement, Vitamin A, Acetate, Folic Acid, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Vitamin D12 Supplement.


Guaranteed Analysis:
Crude Protein (Min.) 45.0%
Crude Fat (Min.) 33.0%
Crude Fiber (Max.) 2.0%
Moisture (Max.) 5.0%
Taurine (Min.) 0.9%

SuperWanda
September 16th, 2006, 07:51 PM
meb999 - just wondering if you ever tried this food?

I came across their website today - they sure have a lot of things to say about pet nutrition and rebut a lot of the views that other pet food companies have or the claims they make.

Prin
September 16th, 2006, 08:00 PM
It looks ok, but then the non-specific "Fish Oil" makes me wonder..... Most of their other foods have corn in them and other nasties, so I never really considered them to be great and up-to-date on dog food info.:shrug:

rainbow
September 16th, 2006, 09:08 PM
Isn't the fat content a little high?

Prin
September 16th, 2006, 09:11 PM
ooo yeah, eh? I've never seen fat that high before. Weird.. (good eye rainbow! :)) And the fiber is really low too.

SuperWanda
September 16th, 2006, 10:01 PM
http://www.wysong.net/controversies/innova.shtml

This is their "poke" at Innova

I find I kind of agree with this stuff in some ways. I mean, I totally see the point of varying animals diet and exposing them to a number of foods to stimulate their immune systems. I sometimes wonder if excluding things from my dogs diet will somehow make them more hypersensitive. Holistic health to me means variety and that in turn can strengthen the immune system - perhaps a lot of the allegies, intolerances and sensitivities come from a immune response that will never be strengthened if the diet is restricted?

Or... Maybe I am just being taken in by another companies attempt to try and exclude the competition...

Who Knows - it sure is driving me bonkers :shrug:

Prin
September 16th, 2006, 10:15 PM
oh, there is so much wrong with wysong's arguments in that link. It's all in the sneaky wording. For example:

Wysong poultry fat is not a “by-product.” Innova claims Wysong poultry fat is inferior, yet Innova products contain chicken fat (isn’t chicken poultry), which is as much a by-product as anyone else’s poultry or chicken fat.

Fat from various species of poultry (as in Wysong) provides a broader spectrum of nutrients than fat from a single species (chicken). Wysong fat does not come from “buzzards.”

Poultry fat, and any other non specific fat or meat is the worst thing IMO that you can have in dog food. Note how they say it doesn't come from buzzards but they don't say where it does come from? Sneaky. Where does it come from? Buzzards are rare around here, so I'm guessing crow, sparrow... You know, the usual birds. :sick:

1. Wysong salt is a unique geologic composition containing dozens of trace minerals commonly deficient in modern human and animal processed diets.
2. Wysong salt is not refined table salt and is not added to increase sodium levels as Innova suggestsSodium is sodium. If you add sodium, you're adding salt, and increasing sodium levels. There are other salts, but I'm sure wysong's isn't UNIQUE (later they call it sea salt... ooo so unique! :rolleyes: ).

Kelp is ok. Salty, yes, but ok...

Yeast is unnecessary and can disrupt the natural yeast balance of dogs (which can become a major problem).

Wysong digest is a food that has been broken down (digested) by enzymes. The process, in effect, predigests complex foods, rendering them more digestible and palatable. Digests used by Wysong are extraordinarily nutrient dense and very expensive. They are not used as an inexpensive substitute or nutritionally depleted filler.
Digest of anything is just disgusting. If the dog can't digest it, don't put it in there. "Pre-chewing" their food for them is just gross and with better ingredients out there that are both palatable and digestible, this is cheap filler.

And from the bottom part ("claims"):
Freedom from non-nutritional ingredients – not additives merely to create color, texture, taste, smell, stool consistency or shelf-life Not ONLY to change color, texture, etc- they perform other actions too. Like beet pulp. It supposedly adds some carbohydrates. I'm sure that counts for them to call it "nutritional" and not just a stool hardener like it really is meant for.:rolleyes:

I could go on and on.

Fresh meats, whole ingredients – not just pre-rendered by-products and grain fractions Check out the sneaky wording here again- not JUST by-products. :sick: Not "NO pre-rendered by-products", and there's a reason for that. Sneaky sneaky.

Prin
September 16th, 2006, 10:31 PM
Let's break apart one of Wysong's foods, just for kicks...

Wysong Archetype food (http://www.wysong.net/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=WOTTPWS&Product_Code=WDARBU&Category_Code=CD&Product_Count=3)
Beef and Chicken; Beef and Chicken Liver; Ground Bone, Flax Seed, Ground Brown Rice, Ground Oat Groats, Ground Wheat, Ground Corn, Cane Molasses, Tomatoes, Sun-Cured Alfalfa, Apple, Blueberry, Sweet Potato, Celery, Beets, Parsley, Lettuce, Watercress, Spinach, Carrots, Green Beans, Potato, Chlorella, Barley Grass Powder, Wheat Grass Powder, Organic Mung Bean Sprouts, Organic Quinoa Sprouts, Organic Millet Sprouts, Artichoke, Dried Seaweed, Milk Calcium, Coral Calcium, Dicalcium Phosphate, Fish Oil, Coconut Oil, Yeast Culture, Sesame Seeds, Taurine, DL-Methionine, Sea Salt, Garlic, Black Pepper, Artichoke, Dried Enterococcus faecium Fermentation Product, Bacillus subtilis Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus plantarum Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus casei Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus lactis Fermentation Product, Dried Saccharomyces cerevisiae Fermentation Product, Dried Aspergillus oryzae Fermentation Product, Dried Aspergillus niger Fermentation Product, Natural Extractives of Sage and Rosemary, Choline Chloride, Ascorbic Acid, Zinc Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin Supplement, Manganese Proteinate, Calcium Pantothenate, Thiamine Mononitrate, Copper Proteinate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin Supplement, Vitamin A Acetate, Folic Acid, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement.

The first ingredient, once you remove the water from the first 4 on the list is probably ground bone. Whose bone? Studies on foods that have unnamed animal sources in the ingredient lists have found the drugs used to euthanize dogs and cats in them. :sick: And that's #1!!!

#2- Flaxseed. Really. Flax is good, but I'd be surprised if in huge quantities like this, it wouldn't cause serious itching.

#3 and on are grains, grains and more grains.

Next is molasses. :confused: I'm no molasses expert, but isn't that mostly sugar?!

And then there are a bunch of wet veggies, meaning after dehydration, there's probably next to none in the food. :shrug:

Beets... Well, they use the whole beet. They pretend it's in there for nutritional value (remember?) but most likely it's in there to harden up the stool after all those grains loosen it up.


Why so much calcium? :confused: Ca is Ca, whether it's milk, coral, or calcium pantothenate. Sure, natural sources are better, but once you isolate it from the milk or coral, it's not natural anymore anyway.

What nutritional benefit does black pepper serve? Anybody know?

"Dried Saccharomyces cerevisiae Fermentation Product"- Funky, serious-sounding way of saying YEAST. Yeast fermentation product- not necessary at all.

Not a pretty food IMO- especially the Bone meal. Notice how that's #1 and they didn't use that in their arguments against Innova? Innova defines bone meal on their site too.
Meat Meal or Meat & Bone Meal is the rendered product from mammal tissues, with or without bone, exclusive of any added blood, hair, hoof, horn, hide trimmings, manure, stomach and rumen contents except in such amounts as may occur unavoidably in good processing practices.

Most people associate this ingredient with beef. The truth is that it can come from any mammal: pigs, goats, horses, rabbits, rendered animals from shelters, and dead animals found on roads. Meat meal can contain condemned parts and animals that are rejected for human consumption, including '4D' animals: dead, diseased, dying, or disabled. It can include pus, cancerous tissue, and decomposed (spoiled) tissue. This inexpensive ingredient found in many commercial pet foods cannot be considered part of a safe, healthy diet for pets.


Look at their maintenance formula- it's pretty well the same (except it's missing the bone meal :thumbs up: ). All the worst grains in there, with rice, wheat, corn and oat groats as the first ingredients..
Chicken, Chicken Giblets, Ground Brown Rice, Ground Wheat, Ground Corn, Ground Oat Groats, Poultry Fat (preserved with mixed Tocopherols as a source of vitamin E), Eggs, Plums, Dried Wheat Grass Powder, Dried Barley Grass Powder, Whey, Dried Yogurt, Lecithin, Citric Acid, Sage Extract, Rosemary Extract, Dried Kelp, Fish Oil, Salt, Garlic, Black Pepper, Artichoke, L-Carnitine, Direct Fed Microbials (Dried Bacillus subtilis Fermentation Product, Dried Enterococcus faecium Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus casei Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus lactis Fermentation Product, Dried Yeast Culture, Dried Aspergillus oryzae Fermentation Product, Dried Aspergillus niger Fermentation Product), Ascorbic Acid, Zinc Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin Supplement, Manganese Proteinate, Calcium Pantothenate, Thiamine Mononitrate, Copper Proteinate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin Supplement, Vitamin A Acetate, Folic Acid, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement.

rainbow
September 16th, 2006, 10:31 PM
Good post, Prin. :highfive:

SuperWanda
September 17th, 2006, 09:11 AM
I think you have convienced me on that one - why am I so easily blinded???:cool:

OntarioGreys
September 17th, 2006, 11:10 AM
Molasses comes pretty high on their list, it is used to make the food palatible but also dogs become sort of addicted to it, this also applies to salt, a person that starts feeding this will have a hard time trying to change to another food, so it is also a way to get the dogs hooked on their food

I have to wonder whay they would add calium after adding bone meal to the diet, bone meal already is a high source of calcium, to much calcium could be a real problem especially for larger breeds
Calcium excess

Feeding high calcium diets with excess calcium is often blamed for contributing to bone problems in young, rapidly growing dogs. There does appear to be a link between the incidence of hypertrophic osteodystrophy (HOD), osteochondritis dissecans (OCD) and hip dysplasia, and the overfeeding of calcium. In recent studies, researchers fed dogs calcium at a much higher than recommended amount, and compared the incidence of disease in dogs that were fed normal or less than normal calcium levels. As would be expected, the animals that were overfed calcium showed increased incidence of skeletal problems including hip dysplasia.

meb999
September 17th, 2006, 03:40 PM
meb999 - just wondering if you ever tried this food?
.

Naw, I thought about it, then realised the fat content was a little high (which would be a problem with buster's sensitive tummy --- and when I say problem, you should read :explosive-butt poo!!)

Plus, I didn't like the 'ground bone, --- which bone? Whose bone? :shrug:
it's a little sketchy.

Now that I've read Prin's post, I sure am glad I didn't try it!!

technodoll
September 17th, 2006, 03:53 PM
that food just sounds like an awful mish-mash of about everything they found in their cupboards, all thrown together in a wild hodgepodge :eek: there is no rhyme or reason to this diet, IMO.

if a company feels the need to discredit another in order to make themselves sound better... they have a problem! you build a good reputation on your own product's merits, not by attacking the competition with baseless and empty statements. :shrug:

Prin
September 17th, 2006, 11:19 PM
Yeah, they make it seem as though Innova was bashing them directly and I don't see that on Innova's site. They just describe the ingredients how they see fit- they don't bash directly.:shrug: