Pets.ca - Pet forum for dogs cats and humans 

-->

*Help* with old Dog New aggreaive behavior

XxCindyLouxX
August 25th, 2006, 10:50 PM
Oh I sure hope you guys can help me- Im new to this site- so let me first start by saying hello to all and thank you so much for hearing what I have to ask.

My yr old (none fixed) male chow-shepard mix was leashed as well as my lab-rot mix like they have been many time when I am working on the landscaping so they dont run out the gate. Well today our little 4lb 10 yr old tacobell doggie was attacked by our chow-shepard mix.(chewy) He has been a very good dog since we got him at 8 weeks old. Other dogs were here when we got him. There was never any sign of aggression till today. Kids play well with him and he listen very well for a young dog. There was No food around and nothing out of the ordinary. So what would make him attack our little dog.(he is ok-a few bite marks but ok) Kids are afraid we will have to get rid of him. What makes a dog turn like that out of the blue and to use seems like no reason. Should I fear him around the kids now?

LM1313
August 26th, 2006, 01:10 PM
The first thing to do is to get the shepherd-chow neutered, along with any of the other dogs who aren't yet neutered. It may not solve the problem completely, but will definitely help.

Is the chihauhua dominant over the chow-shepherd? The chow-shepherd may be trying to "move up" in the pack.

Your dog is not necessarily going to attack the kids (or anyone else) even if he is aggressive towards other dogs. Watch his behavior with the kids and evaluate. Does he know that they're "above him" in the pack and respect that? Do they know how to behave around him (no teasing or roughhousing)? Does he obey them when they give obedience commands?

Since you have multiple dogs, I think working with a local dog behaviorist / trainer would be best for your family.

OntarioGreys
August 26th, 2006, 02:13 PM
Does the chow get frustrated when tied up? as in upset wanting to be with you?

It could be a form of redirected aggression usually caused by overexcited and frustration.

He could overexcited and frustrated by not being able to follow you around and the chi just happened to move too close to him while he was in an overexcited state and out of frustration the chow went at him, the chow did not intentionally mean to hurt him.
A similiar example in humans is 2 young males get into a fight about a girl, the friend of one tries to break up the fight by pulling his friend back, but is firend is so worked up and upset at the moment, he does not realize that it is his friend that is tugging on him and without realizing he swings his arm around and punches his friend in the face and that is when he suddenly realizes what he has done and he is appalled and quite remorse as he had no intention of slugging his friend. In a situation like yours it is a simple matter to prevent by either putting the dog inside the house where he can' t see you or simply keep the dogs tied up farther apart, but the children should be made aware if he is too ecited and worked up that they should stay away from him until he is calmed down again

XxCindyLouxX
August 27th, 2006, 12:19 AM
:grouphug:

Thank you so much for your responce. First thing on Monday we are taking him to the local Humane soc. for a Anger / aggression test they offer. At that point it all depends on the answer. I know deep down he is a good boy. I pray they have good news. If there is an ounce of hope to make this all better for him we will do it. We called the vet to get him *fixed* and looking for local training classes. As a Mommy I am just scared. After seeing the aggression - to tell you the truth I am scared of him right now, and dont want the kids playing with him till I get some answers.
I will try to keep faith that this will all work out.

*How do you tell if your *F* dog is in heat? I dont know if she is or not and if that might be the facter here.

~*~*~* Thank you ~*~*~*~

rainbow
August 27th, 2006, 12:34 AM
You have an un-neutered male and an un-spayed female on chains? :eek:

You are only asking for trouble IMO and it's your fault what happened not theirs. :mad:

Please get them both fixed. :fingerscr

LM1313
August 27th, 2006, 02:36 AM
Oh my gosh. :eek: Get the female (any and all females) fixed RIGHT AWAY!

First, because an unplanned pregnancy would be a disaster when there's already so much pet overpopulation.

Second, because this could indeed be a factor . . . Males go NUTS when they're near a female in heat. Every other male will become a rival in their eyes, someone who needs to be fought off. They forget all their training. They will do anything in their power to get to the female. Even neutered males can be affected by the presence of a female in heat (though not as severely as an unneutered male.)

Please get all your critters fixed, for both their sake and your family's sake!

SnowDancer
August 27th, 2006, 12:06 PM
Definitely need to get your dogs fixed. Also you posted that your Chow is one year old. We have been through a similar problem but with same sized dogs. One was clearly the Alpha - benevolent, fortunately - the other decided at about 1 1/2 years of age that he wanted to be the Alpha and started attacking the true Alpha by grabbing at the back of the neck and sinking those canine teeth into his neck (note - to the vet immediately when this happens). Very hard for dog to get away when held in such a fashion. To his credit my Alpha growled and tried to put the little bugger in his place, but to no avail. This went on for 6 years. It was definitely a vendetta against the Alpha. Once I saw it about to happen and I put my wrist across my Alpha's neck and the Want-To-Be pulled back knowing exactly what he was doing. We never, ever left them alone together after the first incident. Terrier breeds will fight to the death. My husband also learned that if you are trying to get two fighting dogs apart not a good idea to grab the innocent party from behind without showing his first that it is in fact you. I instinctively new this. You will of course have to determine if your Chow will be a threat to your children and other pets, but first the fixing and then closely watching behaviour. I know of many other people with 2 dogs who lived very peacefully together until adolescence and then happy days were over. Hope that everything works out for you - I know how stressful it can be. I have an Eskimo and not a chance I would have 2 Eskies. Actually other Eskies don't like him.

XxCindyLouxX
August 31st, 2006, 11:46 AM
Thank you again, and yes I know we need to get them fixed and planned on it, After we had one litter. I just never knew that he would lash out so badly with another dog we had for so long. Leashing them was for the reason of keeping them safe so they wouldnt run out of the yard when we were hauling in material. I made it a point to lease them away from each other so they wouldnt get tangled all up. I have nothing but good intentions, and love my pets. The older male is Fixed. I just wanted to breed the two @ some point.. But I guess now the some point is sooner then later. So for those that did this :mad: :yell: , please I know about over pet population. And I already have homes for the whole litter when they arrive. So for those that helped with my question, Thank you so very much.:pawprint:

technodoll
August 31st, 2006, 12:01 PM
i know it will fall on deaf ears, but i just had to say this anyways...

http://www.nonprofitnw.org/drnw/id52.html

and...

We often hear that people plan on having "JUST ONE LITTER" of pups from their dog. They often think that this can be educational for their children and after all it's JUST ONE LITTER.

So let's take a look at what JUST ONE LITTER means over a ten year period.

We'll be looking at an average litter of six pups, half of which will be female.

2 Dogs - Father and Mother 2
6 puppies, 3 females 6 + 2 parents = 8 Dogs 1st Year
3 x 6 puppies = 18, 9 females 8 + 18 = 26 Dogs 2nd Year
9 x 6 puppies = 54, 27 females 26 + 54 = 80 Dogs 3rd Year
27 x 6 puppies = 162, 81 females 80 + 162 = 242 Dogs 4th Year
81 x 6 puppies = 486, 243 females 242 + 486 = 728 Dogs 5th Year
243 x 6 puppies = 1458, 729 females 728 + 1458 = 2186 Dogs 6th Year
729 x 6 puppies = 4374, 2187 females 2186 + 4374 = 6560 Dogs 7th Year
2187 x 6 puppies = 13122, 6561 females 6560 + 13122 = 19682 Dogs 8th Year
6561 x 6 puppies = 39366, 19683 females 19682 + 39366 = 59048 Dogs 9th Year
19683 x 6 puppies = 118098, 59049 females 59048 + 118098 = 177,146 Dogs 10th Year

do you still think "just one litter" of two mutts is worth it? :sad:

rainbow
August 31st, 2006, 02:27 PM
Good post TD. :thumbs up

technodoll
August 31st, 2006, 03:08 PM
i need to add...

Unfortunately, ANYONE can breed dogs. In fact, just turn your unspayed female dog loose, when she is in heat, and let her breed and have a litter of pups and BINGO you can call yourself a dog breeder. There are no licenses, standards or prerequisites to breed dogs. No one watches or monitors breeders and/or investigates what they are producing. Not even the Kennel Clubs. REMEMBER THIS WHEN YOU ARE LOOKING FOR THAT SPECIAL PET FOR YOUR FAMILY!!!!

I do believe that most people who deliberately breed dogs (purebred or mixed breed) do so because they think their dog is fantastic and want to have other people enjoy progeny from such a wonderful dog. HOWEVER, if you base your whole breeding criteria on only the one dog (male) or bitch (female) you own you are very short sighted. Do you know how that dog's sisters and brothers turned out? What about the parents and grandparents of that dog? Impossible you say, rubbish - what does that have to do with anything? Think for a moment how genetics play such a big part in human development. That, alone, should give you a big clue how important this really is. Do you want people who get your puppies to inherit all sorts of problems that could have been avoided if you had only done some research/homework, etc? If you are using a mixed bred dog for breeding you cannot even say for sure what the progeny out of that dog will look like or what their behaviors/temperament will be. There can be throwbacks to the grandparents and even great-grandparents and beyond.

Responsible breeders who want to maintain and/or improve the breed they have chosen to breed do a whole lot of investigation and work before they decide to breed their dog. They know the history of their dog AND its parentage - at least 3 generations. They know what the good and bad traits of their breed are. They try to minimize health and/or structure risks associated with their breed and dogs in general. In a lot of cases they compete in recognized dog sports (conformation, obedience, tracking, search & rescue) to prove to themselves that these dogs are worthy of being bred. Their dogs are vet checked and vaccinations are kept current. They spend the money to have their dogs hips, elbows, eyes, thyroid, etc. cleared/certified for possible inherited problems. They do not over breed their dog(s). They belong to dog clubs, kennel clubs, professional affiliations, they read numerous articles about their breed and do not breed unless they have a waiting list for their pups. They screen puppy buyers carefully and do not sell to just anyone. They give written health and temperament guarantees. A lot of good breeders will even buy a puppy back from the owners if they owner is unable to keep the dog. They will only use good quality male dogs for stud … not just any male (even if it is purebred). They will want to see a 3 generation pedigree on the male and talk to the breeder and original owner of the dog they are considering using to ensure that they have not encountered any health or structure problems in their line. They will also want to check to make sure that the owner of the male dog has had the necessary checks done on hips, eyes, elbows, etc.

If you own a male dog you are not considered a breeder. It is only if you own a female dog that you can be a dog breeder. Owners of male dogs are paid a stud fee that is usually equal to the value of 1 pup. If you own a male dog that is highly pedigreed and titled or comes from exceptional stock, you will have people clamoring for his services. However, there are lots of people who will use inferior dogs on their inferior females just to have 1 litter (so they can get a pup out of their bitch or because they want to have their children experience the miracle of birth. What kind of criteria is that for a breeding program? How much thought have they put behind their action(s)?

So, you think you can make some extra tax-free/pocket money by breeding dogs? Well, the reality of it is you can…if you keep your expenses down and unless someone (who is pissed off at you) reports you to Revenue Canada.

Let's see, start by buying a purebred but unregistered dog…hey who needs registration papers. Even better get a free dog. Your dog turns out great but you have no idea about its history. So what!! You spent the $200.00 for a dog - no questions asked - you may have even got it for free. You know there are lots of people out there who want dogs just like this…right. Well, again this could be true.

Now, find a person who has a similar dog to yours or, hey, be creative - let's try mixing two different dogs together and see what happens. If you really search around you can find an owner of a male dog that thinks that it is mandatory and natural that their male dog have sex and it won't cost you a dime. The owner of the male dog doesn't have to think about the puppies or where they are going to eventually end up. That is the female dog's owner responsibility…right? The owner of the male dog may have even got a few bucks for providing the stud service or a pup out of the litter.

Complications can and do arise. The pregnant female may require a C-Section, for example. Find out how much that costs. And because you probably didn't take her to a vet to have her checked out before she was bred or even during her pregnancy she will probably decide to have her pups and need a C-Section after the vets are closed.

Okay! Your pups are now on the ground - gee this is easy. Mom feeds and looks after the pups for the first 3 weeks or so. However, what happens if mom gets sick and can't care for the pups. What happens if the pups require veterinary attention? Oops - boy this is starting to cost some money. Now the pups are 3 to 3 ½ weeks of age and mom doesn't want to feed or clean up after them anymore. Now this becomes YOUR job. Do you have a safe and clean area for the pups to stay and play? Are you going to buy high quality puppy food or just the cheapest stuff you can find? The pups are starting to keep you up at night. "Hey", you reason, "if the pups are on puppy food lets sell the little buggers fast so I can keep my expenses down and get some sleep. They're so cute who can refuse them?"

So you advertise…uh oh - a bit more expense there. You may or may not even get the pups examined by a vet and have them get their first booster. You can even reason that because you are selling the pups so reasonably that the new owners can get all that done…save some money there. So what if the pups are only 5-6 weeks of age - if they can eat on their own they're old enough to leave…right? The first couple of pups sell quickly but you are left with 2 or 3 pups and the days turn into weeks and the weeks turn into months. You have to maybe re-advertise, maybe get the shots for the remaining pups, feed and care for them and continue to lose sleep. You figure the easiest thing to do now is take them to the local animal shelter…let them find a home. Maybe they can and maybe they can't - it's not your fault now is it?

Uh, Oh, one of your puppy buyers has decided he doesn't want the pup anymore - his girlfriend has left him and he has been kicked out of his apartment and he wants YOU to do something for him, after all you sold or gave him this puppy. Oh well, you say - tough luck… these things happen in life - you should have thought things through better before getting the pup. You recommend he advertise the pup or perhaps take the pup to the local animal shelter…after all that is what you did when it didn't suit YOUR purpose anymore.

It became too much work, too much hassle for the few measly bucks you maybe did make.

STILL WANT TO BE A DOG BREEDER?

Let's hope you do want to be a responsible dog breeder. The best advice I can give you is to interview breeders and start with the best dog you can find. This is not going to be cheap or easy. Responsible breeders sell their puppies on non-breed contracts - you are not allowed to breed the dog. Be honest with the breeder about what you want the dog for. Have them tell you the conditions you may have to fulfill before they will lift the non-breed contract. Try to find a breeder who is willing to become your mentor and learn all you can from that person. Read books about your breed, visit dog shows, compete with your dog, and find out all you can about training the dog. Visit the animal shelters, breed rescue clubs and find out why people get rid of dogs. You will become very angry at most of the reasons given. Find out how many dogs and cats are put to sleep every year because there are not enough homes out there to accommodate all these unwanted animals who never asked to be born in the first place.

SO YOU STILL WANT TO BE A DOG BREEDER?

IF YOU DO, PLEASE!!! PLEASE!!! BE A RESPONSIBLE ONE!!!