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Wellness and renal failure is it true ??

August 16th, 2006, 05:39 PM
I am wondering if this food really gives dogs renal failure I was reading on the net about this.

August 16th, 2006, 05:58 PM
We're waiting for them to clear those rumors up... Still no reply.

August 16th, 2006, 06:54 PM
so, these are just rumors ??

:pray: :fingerscr

August 16th, 2006, 11:15 PM
So far.. As far as I know, it's just one person on another message board who knows three dogs with renal failure, who were eating wellness... But we don't know how old they were, or what the other circumstances were...

Sounds fishy, for sure, but the same thing happened to Merrick a while back when their food quality was questioned and rumors spread like wild fire. We'll just see what Wellness answers.:fingerscr

August 16th, 2006, 11:24 PM
What message board are you referring to?

August 16th, 2006, 11:28 PM
the yahoo one.

August 16th, 2006, 11:42 PM
Yeah, same here. Have you tried contacting Wellness about this? You seem to have better luck getting a response from them than I do. :p

August 16th, 2006, 11:46 PM
Yeah, I sent the same guy an email about it. We'll see what he finds out for me.:) Merrick was really quick to get back to me last summer, so hopefully Wellness is just as concerned.

August 17th, 2006, 10:59 AM
I got a reply.

Dear Prin,

Thank you for taking the time to get the facts on our foods. We succeeded in keeping our nutrient profiles similar to what they were before the enhancements we made.

Here are the nutritional values you have requested:

The Phosphorus level of our Wellness Dry Dog foods after enhancement.

Puppy=1.33% as fed
Chicken =1.01% as fed
Lamb=1.06% as fed
Fish=1.06% as fed
Senior=0.85% as fed
Wt. Mgt=0.93% as fed
Duck=0.96% as fed
Venison=1.26% as fed

The Phosphorus of our Wellness Dry Dog foods before enhancement.

Puppy=1.47% as fed
Chicken =0.93% as fed
Lamb=1.44% as fed
Fish=0.99% as fed
Senior=0.75% as fed
Wt. Mgt=0.87% as fed
Duck=0.96% as fed
Venison=1.26% as fed

I hope this helps to quell those awful rumors.
The senior and weight management ones went up a bit, which might have affected dogs who were already sensitive (IMO), but otherwise, most still hover very close to 1%.:shrug: Anybody else have a different take on it?

August 17th, 2006, 11:38 AM
Isn't it only the fish based one that some people were concerned about? Their fish based one was 0.99% before enhancement and 1.06% after enhancement. Maybe that increase would affect some dogs. :shrug:

Aren't the fish based dog foods from other companies around 1% as well?

August 17th, 2006, 11:42 AM
Timberwolf's ocean blue is 0.9...
Their nutrient dense lamb, apple and barley one is 1.4..

I really don't think that's what did it.

August 17th, 2006, 11:47 AM
Evo is 1.5% but the rest of the innovas are between 0.7-0.9%

Performatrin is min 1.0%...

Eagle Pack varies from 0.8 to 1.1.

Canidae is around 0.9...

Nutro Max has a range- 0.8-1.3..

Barking at the moon is at 1.5 and wolf cub is at 1.2..

Sorry, I'm just going through them to see what the normal range is..

Wellness isn't seeming out of the ordinary at all, IMO.

August 17th, 2006, 12:34 PM
I was concerned about the puppy food of course but I see that the levels went down actually.

I am having a very hard time to decide on the right puppy food. Maybe I should make another tread about this where to post the name, ingredients and my comments?? :sick:

August 17th, 2006, 12:35 PM
Well, seeing how they said it's just the Wellness fish based one some people were complaining about, maybe it's not the phosphorous level. Do you know if they specifically say that they do not use ethoxyquin as a preservative for the fish?

August 17th, 2006, 12:47 PM
Yeah, they do say specifically:
No Artificial Preservatives such as EQ, BHA, and BHT
Artificial preservatives are inappropriate for a daily diet, as they have no nutritional value and may be harmful in excess.
Scientific studies have linked EQ (ethoxyquin), BHA (Butylated hydroxyanisole), and BHT (butylated hydroxytoluene) with certain types of cancer in humans, and there is little information regarding the safety of long-term use for pets.

August 17th, 2006, 12:49 PM
Oh, and it's not sneaky like "no added preservatives" as in it could already be in the fish. ;)

August 17th, 2006, 12:52 PM
Yeah, but aren't they just saying that they don't add them?

Isn't most fish preserved with ethoxyquin before it's sold to the pet food industry? Aren't they supposed to say they do not buy fish that has already been preserved with ethoxyquin? :confused:

August 17th, 2006, 01:15 PM
I don't think so. Saying there's no eq in the food is not the same as saying there's none added. I'll just write them again and see. lol That guy's gonna get sick of me!:D

August 17th, 2006, 01:20 PM
Well, seeing how they said it's just the Wellness fish based one some people were complaining about, maybe it's not the phosphorous level. Do you know if they specifically say that they do not use ethoxyquin as a preservative for the fish?
They don't use it. A while back I freaked out at about 2 am about it, and read every single word on that bag. They say explicitly that the menhadden fish meal is not preserved with it, and that there is no ethoxyquin in the food at all.

August 17th, 2006, 01:21 PM
Cool. Saves me another email.:D

August 17th, 2006, 03:26 PM
Great news. :highfive: Now, all we have to do is wait for them to remove the menadione.

August 17th, 2006, 03:46 PM
Great news. :highfive: Now, all we have to do is wait for them to remove the menadione.

what??? I thought that was gone! or did you get a response?

August 17th, 2006, 03:54 PM
I just bought a bag of Wellness"salmon,turkey and herring oil formula" for my cats,now I am a bit concerned:frustrated:
They also eat Solid Gold and canned though,but seem to like this Wellness kind.

August 17th, 2006, 04:12 PM
No, I still haven't heard from them :frustrated: but Prin did and it's posted under the "Wellness??" thread. They aren't removing it until the 4th quarter of this year.

August 17th, 2006, 04:13 PM
:sorry: but LOLLlll.

I do the same, after days of ingredient studies I finally decide on Wellness and not this. A few days before I was thinking about Merrick but then I found out about their quality control problems and so on. This is why I still do not know what to buy for my dog :pawprint:

August 17th, 2006, 04:45 PM
I didn't know Merrick had quality control issues? :confused:

Here's some foods that I would still recommend:

Canidae, Innova, Dick Van Patten, Solid Gold, Timberwolf Organics, Go Natural.

If none of those work, then it should be the 4th quarter of this year by that time, and you can try Wellness.

Welcome to the dog food rollercoaster that we've all been on at one time or another. :D

August 17th, 2006, 04:57 PM
Merrick's quality control issues are nothing. I talked with them last summer and there are no issues. With every large company, there can be things that get mixed in the food (rarely) and there was one lady who fed canned every day that found a staple in one can once. She made a huge stink about it and it spread all over the net really quickly. It happens to the best companies out there.

There was also the issue about them putting road kill in their food, and I was told specifically that that never ever happens in foods with their name on it.

There's no reason to not get Merrick. :thumbs up

With dog foods, every food is great until we find out otherwise (and we eventually do find out otherwise).

August 17th, 2006, 05:00 PM
There was also the issue about them putting road kill in their food, and I was told specifically that that never ever happens in foods with their name on it.

That one would be called "Interstate Delight"

August 17th, 2006, 05:02 PM
No, Southern Texas Possum Grill.:D

August 17th, 2006, 05:14 PM
LOL, but sorry, you guys shouldn't thread jack from the more serious topic here, as I think, knowing us, we could likely get a little out of hand here. :D

August 17th, 2006, 05:15 PM
No, Southern Texas Possum Grill.:D

Well I was going to say "Mystery Bayou Blowout" but I didn't want to stereoptype.

August 17th, 2006, 05:17 PM
LOL, but sorry, you guys shouldn't thread jack from the more serious topic here, as I think, knowing us, we could likely get a little out of hand here. :D
yes'm :o :o

August 17th, 2006, 05:18 PM
K, so Wellness has menadione till Jan 07 (to be safe) but everything else is ok.
Merrick is ok. Their quality is ok. Their customer service is great.

There was a thread way back where the Working Dog Stew from Merrick stank like madness and we complained to Merrick and they sent us coupons in the mail, even though there was nothing wrong with the food (the tripe was just smellier than we're used to).:thumbs up

August 17th, 2006, 05:18 PM
Well I was going to say "Mystery Bayou Blowout" but I didn't want to stereoptype.
Well, they ARE in texas...:D

August 17th, 2006, 06:06 PM
Well i guess I will change Winnie from Wellness for seniors to ?? :confused:
What would you recommend Prin. Winnie is 8 1/2 years old and she is showing signs of arthritis. I liked the Wellness because it had Glucosamine.

August 17th, 2006, 06:07 PM
You're better to feed a regular food with glucosamine on the side. There's not enough in the food to actually do something (gimmick).

August 17th, 2006, 06:10 PM
Thanks, will do. Well I guess I have to go out tommorrow and see what other sample foods I can get so that our little Queen can decide which one she prefers. WOuld you recommend any that have fish in it...she loves fish

August 17th, 2006, 06:17 PM
How about Timberwolf Organics Ocean Blue or the DVP ones? Also I think Go Natural has a fish one.

August 17th, 2006, 06:19 PM
Thanks. I will be going in tomorrow..I am taking notes. Thanks:thumbs up

August 17th, 2006, 06:24 PM
Wolf King, DVP sweet potato and fish... Hey wait, this one has exactly what you're looking for, even if I don't think it's necessary... But it does have higher protein, so they aren't filling it up with fillers (good thing).

Woofers might have it.. They have a few innova ones. Even if they don't they'd probably order it for you since they already get innova.

August 17th, 2006, 06:25 PM
How about Timberwolf Organics Ocean Blue or the DVP ones? Also I think Go Natural has a fish one.
Oh, don't even try to find TO here. Impossible.:rolleyes:

August 17th, 2006, 07:06 PM
Prin, you don't think there's enough glucosamine in the food to make much of an effect? Well I guess It'll be "let's see what Winnie likes" day. She can be picky with her food. It took me a few samples before I found Wellness. Oh well back to the drawing board:yell:

August 17th, 2006, 07:53 PM
how about raw? :p

August 17th, 2006, 07:57 PM
Believe me I tried raw...if it doesn't smell like its been BBQ'd..she ain't eating it. I tried different meats , but she really looked at me like I forgot to do something important....."COOK IT"...:frustrated:
I tried for a few days but gave up.

August 17th, 2006, 09:59 PM
Well, if she likes wellness, she can't be that picky.:D I don't think there's enough glucosamine in the food, but if you'd rather some than not, then at least you know Innova makes a good one with it in there... Woofers has samples beside the door...:D

August 24th, 2006, 11:20 PM
ok so what is the verdict? rumours about 3 dogs on fish meal? please confirm I just started on this food I dont wan't renal failure111!!!

August 24th, 2006, 11:31 PM
Honestly, I doubt it's true. I asked my dog food store if they've heard anything from their customers and they said no. They pretty well only carry solid gold, innova, wellness, wysong and merrick, so they would sell a ton of wellness.

With that and the detailed changes in formula..

I vote for no, it isn't true.

August 24th, 2006, 11:49 PM
I have to agree. There has been no legitimate confirmation of this. Have you tried contacting the company and telling them about what you are hearing and asking them for clarification?

September 6th, 2006, 07:51 PM
Incidences of renal failure probably has a sharp increase in all kibbles with grain severy summer especially in Holistic foods that are not using chemical preservatives, I doubt this has anything at all to do with Wellness itself just a fluke that 3 people that were all feeding happened to be eating the same food and they somehow connected. All foods that have grains contain minute amounts of fungus/molds which cannot be destroyed during processing but are at safe levels for consumption.

Occasionally mycotoxin-contaminated foods have occured at the time of processing where the grains used to make had higher than safe levels of mold/fungi which resulted in bad batches most recently with Diamond dog food, but it can occur at home after purchase once the bag is opened as well if the food is not stored properly and incidences will be higher in the summer.

Vitamin E is what most of use want to see as a preservative in quality kibbles rather than BHA/BHT which can cause cancer , but it has it's downside, as heat and humidity destroys the vitamin E as it is not as stable, which can turn the food into a deadly toxin if not stored properly or if kept around too long, THe expiry dates on food only apply while the bag remains sealed, once the bag is opened it can spoil easily much like a jar of mayo if not stored properly.

In the summer when it is hot and humid kibbles can go bad very fast as light and heat will break down the natural preservative Vitamin E that is use in Holisitic kibbles, if the bag is not reclosed noisture from the air can get into the food combine with the heat it will cause the fungus/molds to multiply rapidly to toxic levels when high enough these toxins are absorbed by the dogs liver and kidneys because the levels are too high the renal system cannot handle the overload and as a result renal failure occurs.
Think about a loaf of bread what happens to it if you leave on the counter in the middle of summer for one week in the plastic bag it comes in??? The same happens to dog food the process is a slight bit slower because of the special bagging that is used, if you store your kibble instead in a plastic container the kibble will lose the bags protection and break down even faster.

How to Safely Store Your Dog or Cat Food

By Steve Brown and Beth Taylor

Would you keep a loaf of bread open in your kitchen for 39 days?

We hope not. That's how long an open bag of dog food typically lasts. This lengthy storage time and poor storage conditions often lead to nutrient degradation, oxidation of fats and infestation by molds, mites and other food spoilers.

Another set of numbers, as a dog owner, you want to be concerned about: One in three dogs dies of cancer. We believe improper storage at home is a major contributing factor to that mortality rate.

Dry dog foods usually have a one-year shelf life. That means the food is good for up to one year after the manufacturing date. Many dry foods stamp a best if used by date on the package. This applies only to unopened bags, however. High-quality dog food companies use bags that provide protection from oxygen and moisture. If the bag is intact, not enough oxygen and moisture can migrate into the food in one year to cause significant oxidation or microbial growth problems.

Though there are problems that can occur between the food manufacturer and the customer opening the bag, it's what happens after the bag is opened that we are most concerned with in this article.

Here's a short list of goodies, among others, that enter the bag after it's opened:

Mold spores
Storage mites

Oxidation of fats: As Dr. Mercola has shown, oxidized fats may cause cancer and contribute to many chronic health problems in humans. The same is true for dogs.

Dog food companies use antioxidants -- sometimes vitamin E and other natural sources -- to slow down oxidation. Every time the bag is opened, however, oxygen enters. Eventually, the antioxidants are all oxidized (used up) and some of the fats are damaged, starting with the more fragile omega-3 fatty acids that better pet food companies now add to their foods.

Degradation of all micronutrients: Vitamins particularly susceptible to oxidation and damage due to long-term room temperature storage include vitamin A, thiamin, most forms of folate, some forms of vitamin B6 (pyridoxal), vitamin C and pantothenic acid. The nutritional value of the food at the bottom of a bag left open 39 days will be considerably less than the food you remove when you first open the bag. Simply put, the fresher the better.

Molds and mycotoxins: Storing open bags of dry dog food for 39 days in warm, humid areas (most kitchens) promotes the growth of mold. Some of the waste products of this mold (mycotoxins) are increasingly being linked to long-term causes of cancer and other health problems in humans, poultry, pigs and other animals. Dogs are particularly susceptible to these toxins.(1)

When dry dog foods absorb moisture from the surrounding air, the antimicrobials used by most manufacturers to delay mold growth can be overwhelmed,(2) and mold can grow. The molds that consume dry pet foods include the Aspergillus flavus mold, which produces Aflatoxin B1, the most potent naturally occurring carcinogenic substance known.(3)

People don't see low levels of mold, and most dogs can't taste it.(4) In fact, many dogs have died shortly after eating mycotoxin-contaminated foods.(5) Mycotoxins kill most dogs slowly by suppressing the immune system and creating long-term health problems in all organs of the body.(6)

Infestation: Bugs, storage mites, mice, and other unpleasant invaders thrive on dry dog food. Recent research has shown that allergic dogs are frequently allergic to the carcasses of storage mites, which may infest grains, especially those grains used in low cost dry dog foods.

Our Recommendations

Keep food in its original bag, even if you use a container. Plastics can leach vitamin C out of the food and the components of the plastics themselves may leach into the food. Rancid fat lodges in the pores of plastics that are not food-grade and will contaminate new batches of food.
Buy small, fresh bags of food, enough to last seven days. Look for manufacturing or best if used by dates on the bag. If you don't see one, or can't understand the code, write the manufacturer and ask where it is or how to interpret their codes.
Keep food dry. If the food looks moist, throw it away.
Keep larger bags in the freezer. This is the only way we believe large quantities of food may be kept safely.
If the food is off-color, throw it away.
If the food smells rancid or like paint, throw the food away.
If your dog says no, do not force her to eat it.
Don't buy bags that are torn.

Follow these simple recommendations and you will radically reduce the deadly toxins your dog encounters.

September 6th, 2006, 07:53 PM
Thanks for a different perspective OG.:)