August 16th, 2006, 09:12 AM
I was wondering if anyone knows if the rabies vaccine is actually required by law and if so, how often and who has this information? What I'm trying to find out is what are the rabies vaccination requirements for housepets in Grimsby, Ontario.
I've been looking into it with one of my dogs shots coming up and I spent a good part of the afternoon yesterday on hold!
I went into my town hall first and they had no idea what I was talking about and they said there was no law about that. (In fact, the man I talked to was actually holding back and trying not to laugh)
Next I called Health Canada who again sounded like they had never heard a question like that. Basically, Health Canada's response came down to - do what your vet recommends. But, that's not a law .. I want to know what the law is.
So, the Health Canada guy gave me the number to the Ministry of Health but I haven't been able to get an answer yet - the line is always busy.
I was just wondering if anybody happened to know the answer or have any other suggestions about who else to call.
I know some other members were wondering what to do about their pets vaccinations and I'm curious what people decided and did. I think I was wrong in thinking that yearly shots were the way to go and I'm really re-thinking it now.
August 16th, 2006, 09:32 AM
Well, in the U.S., rabies shots are required and I can't imagine that they would not be in Canada. Rabies is too easily transmitted from wild animals to pets (and people) to be overlooked.
Rusty got a one year rabies shot last year as he was a pup and this year he got a 3 year shot. He will need his next rabies shot in 2009.
Without proof of his rabies shot, if he should bite anyone I run the risk of having him euthanized so that his brain can be tested for rabies. While I am not a big fan of yearly immunizations, I really do like my dog.
August 16th, 2006, 09:52 AM
Usually, when you buy your license, they make you show proof of vaccination. But not in Grimsby, On... They just require proof of neutering to give you a special rate: http://www.grimsby.ca/index.php?module=pagemaster&PAGE_user_op=view_page&PAGE_id=51&MMN_position=83:11
August 16th, 2006, 10:04 AM
i have also heard there was no law in Canada regarding rabies vaccinations... just recommendations (every 3 years). Any pet imported must show proof of rabies vaccination though. i'd also like to know the bottom line on this "law", if there indeed exists one. :pawprint:
August 16th, 2006, 10:11 AM
Yup, just spay or neuter forms when you get your license in Grimsby (for a reduced rate) I'm going to keep trying the Ministry of Health and see what they can tell me about it.
That's the only thing I worry about with the rabies vaccine - - say one of them was to even scratch somebody and they didn't have "up to date" rabies vaccinations, could they be euthanized to test their brains?
August 16th, 2006, 01:33 PM
Usually they need a bite, no? But for even a nip, they might euthanize if you don't have proof of vaccination.
August 16th, 2006, 01:55 PM
Rabies vaccines are definitely required in Ontario. Some cities require yearly some every 3 years.
Your vet will be able to tell you what the rabies vaccine requirement is for your area, the requirement in Woodstock is every year.
You should also be able to get that info yourself from your local city hall
August 16th, 2006, 04:37 PM
well if you have housepets that don't go outside I think the chances of them getting infected by the virus is less than if you have a dog that's around other dogs and other wild animals. I personally thought rabies shots were compulsory. But either way i'd get them done as often as the vet suggests, whether it's the law or not.
August 16th, 2006, 06:03 PM
In the township where my parents live (neighbour's Ottawa), they have annual rabies clinics at a few of the vet offices on a week-end in September. The clinics are subsidized by the Municipality via a grant from some wing of the Province I think. Its a rural township though, and there have been rabid animals in or near in the past so maybe they are just trying to boost heard immunity?!
I'd get it done, why risk it, especially since you can get the 3 year shot at the vet now.
August 16th, 2006, 06:24 PM
I don't think it's mandatory here unless you are taking your dog into the USA. I always get it every three years though as we live in the country where there's lots of wild critters.
August 16th, 2006, 06:25 PM
Forgive my ignorance on this subject, but is there a reason we wouldn't want to get vaccinations? I've never heard that before, so sorry if this is a stupid question! Is there a danger with annual/bi or ti-annual shots or is the worry specifically for the rabies vaccination? (Sorry for the threadjack, I have just never heard of this before!)
Good luck with trying to find your answer though! Sounds like it's been quite the ordeal so far!
August 16th, 2006, 06:28 PM
I do somewhat live in the country and my dogs are exposed daily to wilfdlife in the forest and on the trails but the thing is .. if the rabies vaccine provides immunity for say 2 or 3 or 5 years then why do I get it done every year? Now that I've started to read up and research it, it really bothers me :rolleyes:
Just to clarify a little .. I do believe in vaccines obviously, to a point. My dogs were vaccinated as puppies at the different weeks. (Well, my female for sure since I had her, my male is a rescue I adopted at 5 months) They have both had their one year boosters for everything. Now, I'm coming up to the next year.
I really wish I could believe my vet but .. I really don't anymore. Sure I trust their judgment about medical things but other things, not really. They (at my vet) are really traditional and they always try to sell me Hills when I'm there :eek: ALWAYS!
When I wanted some help understanding supplements when I was home cooking I called my vet and asked if I could make an appointment with a vet to help me out (and I offered to pay for the time) the receptionist said to me (and I quote because I have not forgotten) "we don't recommend that kind of feeding, so if it's something you have to do you'll have to figure it out on your own" :eek: I almost died on the other end of the line! Anyways, off topic but that's why I can't blindly trust them anymore (I would actually look for a new vet if I didn't like a couple of them so much)
I still haven't gotten through to the Ministry of Health but hopefully I'll have more time to try tomorrow.
Of course, if it's mandatory I'll get it done ... I don't want to risk anything happening to my dogs but I also don't want to risk hurting them by needlessly vaccinating them over and over and over. I just wondered if we're just blindly following what they (vets and manufacturers) say .. I mean, they don't want to not have the money every year for vaccinations so do they really have the best interest of the pets in their minds?
Okay ... so I'm a little obsessed with conspiracy theories .. but this might be a true one .. vaccination is BIG business .. I read online that in canada yearly vaccinations bring in 80 million dollars - - but at what expense for the pets?
August 16th, 2006, 06:37 PM
very interesting info, links, etc!
August 16th, 2006, 06:39 PM
Smiley .. neither had I before. But then I heard it a few times here and I started doing my own reading about it. You can find quite a bit of information online, as well, amazon has some books about it.
Basically, what I have learned from my reading is that vaccines are made to last (obviously) so why every year? We don't get vaccinated every year and we're doing pretty well ... so why our pets? One theory from one of the books was, in canada we don't pay for our shots so they're not going to give us more then we need ... but pets?? Owners pay for that ... big money.
I had also heard about reactions to vaccines (which I originally didn't believe) but these books I've read link them to so many problems - aggressiveness, allergies, skin problems, tumors, epilepsy etc - things I didn't realize could have anything to do with vaccines. Some breeds are more prone to reactions then others etc.
So much information I couldn't ignore it anymore - - which is almost too bad because ignorance is bliss.
August 16th, 2006, 07:07 PM
I only get the rabies every 3 years now. That's the new norm, but my vet says it's costing them a lot of money, so a lot of vets just aren't listening and still give the shot every year.:rolleyes: Distemper is every 2.
Sure we don't get vaccinated as often, except maybe tetanus, but we know our exposure better. I mean, when you get jabbed by a nail, you go for a tetanus shot, but how do you know your dog didn't just lick some raccoon urine or something when it looked like he was just sniffing the grass? Things like that, where you just can't protect your doggy from everything, keep me vaccinating.
I also think that we might not be vaccinating ourselves enough either. I haven't had a single shot in about 12 years and that isn't right either...
August 16th, 2006, 07:27 PM
That's true but let's say that by the time they have their one year booster, after the puppy shots, they're immune for life (or at least many years) and that giving more of the same vaccination every year is really just bombarding them with unnecessary virus's to fight off.
That's my concern about it.
A blurb from the link techno posted:
Vaccinations in Veterinary Medicine: Dogs and Cats
by Don Hamilton, DVM
A practice that was started many years ago and that lacks scientific validity or verification is annual re-vaccinations. Almost without exception there is no immunologic requirement for annual revaccinations. Immunity to viruses persists for years or for the life of the animal. Successful vaccination to most bacterial pathogens produces an immunologic memory that remains for years, allowing an animal to develop a protective anamnestic (secondary) response when exposed to virulent organisms. Only the immune response to toxins requires boosters (e.g. tetanus toxin booster, in humans, is recommended once every 7-10 years). And no toxin vaccines are currently used for dogs and cats. Furthermore, revaccination with most viral vaccines fails to stimulate an anamnestic (secondary) response as a result of interference by existing antibody (similar to maternal antibody interference). The practice of annual vaccination in our opinion should be considered of questionable efficacy unless it is used as a mechanism to provide an annual physical examination or is required by law (i.e., certain states require annual revaccination for rabies).
Summary: Yearly "boosters" are unnecessary, provide no benefit if given
(will not increase immunity). Thus boosters are either a legal issue
(Rabies) or a manipulation issue (inducing clients to come in for
examination rather than directly suggesting an examination).
Okay, a big blurb ;)
Funny how they don't chase us down for our shots too .. send a little card in the mail like the vets do.
August 16th, 2006, 08:17 PM
and if in doubt... how about asking your vet for a titer test? that will show whether the antibodies are still active in the blood or not. Your pet gets its annual exam, the vet makes his annual bucks (titer test is not free) and your pet gets the best of both worlds, ie no unnecessary revax every year. makes sense to me :thumbs up
The “New” Vaccination Protocol in a Nutshell
2006 AAHA Canine Task Force Guidelines
Last month, the American Animal Hospital Association (AAHA) released their revised Canine Vaccine Guidelines, which updates their groundbreaking 2003 Guidelines and adds a suggested protocol for dogs in shelter environments. The announcement sparked a small flurry of discussion on a few mailing lists and message forums, and the surprising revelation that many people were still unaware of the Guidelines released three years ago and the major changes to standard vaccination procedures that it presented. Though the information was not actually new even in 2003, it had not previously been compiled in a single document, nor had a vaccination schedule based on the information been officially recommended.
The most widely-accepted of the recommended changes is the categorization of vaccines. Instead of every dog receiving vaccinations for every disease, a dog should only be vaccinated for those diseases which are significant, and to which the dog is likely to be exposed. Vaccines are broken down in the three groups: Core (recommended) vaccines, those which are suggested for all dogs; Non-core (optional) vaccines, those which are given on an as-needed basis, depending on exposure risk and such things as location and lifestyle; and Not Recommended vaccines, those that have not been consistently effective in preventing disease, or those which are for diseases that are not clinically significant and/or respond readily to treatment.
Canine Distemper Virus
Distemper-Measles Virus (Never indicated in animals older than 12 weeks)
Canine Parainfluenza Virus (This is not the recently reported canine influenza virus)
Bordatella bronchiseptica (Kennel Cough)
Borellia burgdorferi (Lyme Disease)
Not Recommended Vaccines
Canine Adenovirus-1 (The Adenovirus-2 vaccine provides cross-immunity to Adenovirus-1)
Crotalus atrox Toxiod (Rattlesnake)
Porphyromonas sp. (Periodontal Disease)
In 2006, these two vaccines were added to the Guidelines, with the statement that “Because of a lack of experience and paucity of field validation of efficacy, the Task Force takes no position on the use of this vaccine. A reasonable expectation of efficacy does exist.”
August 16th, 2006, 09:09 PM
A few years ago one of my dogs bit someone in the U.S. The bite which did not even break the skin was very small but medical treatment was sought. The doctor reported the bite to the health department who in turn reported the incident to Health Canada. I had to show proof of rabies vaccine immediatley otherwise the person that was bitten would have to undergo a series of rabies shots. I was told that if I did not have proof my dog would have been euthanized. Both the U.S. department of Health and Health Canada called me the day after the bite as well as 10 days later to verify that my dog even though vaccinated was not showing signs of rabies.
Last week I heard a story of a dog that was quite disturbing and never made it into the media. A dog found his way into the backyard of a family with two pitbulls. He was acting aggressive and the owners tried to fight the dog off with a shovel. They managed to get him away from the yard and the dog wandered down the street where he eventually collapsed and died. This dog had bitten a child earlier in the day and had rabies. Both pitbulls were vaccinated but had to be quarantened because they had come in contact with the rabid dog. The choice to vaccinate yearly is yours but if your dog comes in contact with a rabid animal or suspected rabid animal, if he bites/scratches someone the situation is no longer in your control and the authorities take over.
August 16th, 2006, 09:38 PM
Here is the law that applies to rabies vaccinations in Ontario. In summary, you normally have to vaccinate against rabies in this in Ontario. Depending on what vaccine the vet uses, it would be every 1 or 3 years, which should be stated on certificate you get from the vet. There is a clause, however, that states that if your animal cannot be vaccinated against rabies for health reason, you can get a certificate from your vet stating that, and you do not have to vaccinate. There is an additional clause that states that you can also get away with not doing it if your pet is " controlled in such a manner as to preclude its being exposed to rabies"
August 16th, 2006, 09:50 PM
Such an interesting discussion! Thank you all for the clarifcation and the links too! This is the first I had heard of this, so I would like to check into some more as well.
I believe it is the law here in the US, and I know I have to show proof of vaccinatinos in order to get Petey's annual dog license, to take any training classes, to travel into Canada, and I've even had to show it as festival events where dogs are allowed. Currently, my vet does all shots once every two years, but I'll have to ask her about this.
It almost sounds like a catch-22. If you don't get the shots, you run the risk of the fate of your dog if anythiing were to ever happen. If you do get the shots, there's possible long-term side effects! Lovely.
Copperbelle, your story reminds me of one I saw on the news just yesterday about 5 Meerkats that were put to sleep at the Minnesota Zoo because a 9 year old girl whose parent's weren't paying any attention climbed into the exhibit and got bitten by one of them. The parents refused to put their daughter through the rabies shots, so the innocent animals had to be killed instead. They didn't know which one bit her, so the zoo was forced to kill all of them as a precaution and so the brain anaylsis could be done on them all, even though all were vaccinated as well. In my opinion, TERRIBLE! But a true cautionary tale of what can happen.
Sorry again for going a little off topic. :) Good luck in trying to find your answer with the Ministry, Les!
August 16th, 2006, 10:04 PM
Holy strange tables there! LOL
So, that looks like I have to get rabies done either every 1 or 3 years depending on the vaccine used. If that's the case I'm going to go for the 3 year. Hopefully that Rabies Challenge starts to change things!
I thought I would get titers done but in the books I've read it says they're not accurate because they only measure one sort of antibody and not others - so, you could have a positive reading and be negative or have a negative reading but still have enough left. Also, I don't think those test results are sufficient "proof" say crossing the border or whatever. (Not an issue to me, just reporting)
From this one book (Vaccine Guide for Dogs & Cats by: Catherine Diodati) here's her findings for common vaccines:
Parvovirus - immunity persists for five years
Coronavirus - the nature of the disease does not warrant vaccination
Distemper - immunity may endure 3-5 years
Rabies - annual or triennial mandates are not supported by science
I find this kind of interesting ... all the books seem to say the bordetella is a short immunity, only about 6 months .. well I only get that once a year and my dogs are boarded (at least for the day) at least once a month ... funny how they don't "explode", or cause the other dogs to, during the last 6 months when the immunity from their last shot has most likely run out!! :rolleyes:
August 16th, 2006, 10:34 PM
From people I'm close to who are vet techs, I've been told many times over that there is no 'one year' and '3 year' shot. It's the same shot. Just different requirements based on where you live.
Here in durham region there hasn't been a case of rabies in like 4 years.. 6 years ago the only rabid animal was a goat.. I found a potentially rabid raccoon last year and AC and I had a long talk about it... If there was a resurgence in the number of rabid animal in an area rabies would then become manditory every year or every two years instead of the current three.. They'd be trying to reduce the numbers by vaccinating more.
So places with a worse track record for rabies cases could still be yearly or every other. Every three isn't necessarily the norm. Although, if you are being charged 2 separate vaccine rates, like 1 charge for a '1 yr' and a higher charge for a '3 yr' you would be being ripped off. That came up recently on a different forum.
August 16th, 2006, 10:46 PM
Rabies ( or any other vaccine that is offered) is not something i want to take chances with.
What happens to your beloved family member is ultamately disturbing and sad. I will take my chances " over vaccinating" when the vet recommends they have the needles. I figure that they know more than I do about vaccinations and viruses.
There is no law, nor is there a 'discount' on licencing where i live but none the less, i travel with my dogs frequently and they are exposed to many other animals on a weekly basis. So therefore I dont mess with it.
It costs what... an extra $25 for the vaccine??? I dont see a problem with getting the needle when its due.
Hopefully you will find the answer to your questions. And get the vaccination.
August 17th, 2006, 07:31 AM
Check with your local health department since they are the one handling dog bites, they should know
Grimsby like Woodstock is a high rabies epidemic area so municipal lws may apply
this site site tell talks rabies as it applies federally and provincially
August 17th, 2006, 08:18 AM
OG - Thanks for the link .. I'll check it out =)
erykah - you missed my point =) It's not about saving money or getting a discount (it so happens in my town if your dogs are "fixed" you save a couple of dollars per year for the license)
My thing is NOT no vaccinations ... my thing is - are so many, so often (yearly) really necessary? Or are we just blindly following an "old school" trend and hurting our pets? I mean, once you're immune to something .. you're immune ... you can't get "more" immune, you know? That's my concern =)
August 17th, 2006, 10:43 AM
My thing is NOT no vaccinations ... my thing is - are so many, so often (yearly) really necessary? Or are we just blindly following an "old school" trend and hurting our pets?
Les, i totally agree with you. it has nothing to do with "saving money" but rather, saving our pet's health. Vaccinosis is a very real concern. you can search online for information, here is an eye-opener http://mythicaldanes.com/healthtraining/vaccsCO.html
The first fact:
Annual vaccination is fraud.
Strong stuff, eh? There is absolutely no scientific basis for annual vaccination. It was just a practice that was started many years ago, probably because the shots weren't working and someone had the bright idea to keep repeating it in case it helped. In fact, we have discovered that, far from helping, annual vaccination is destroying our animals' immune systems. This is widely known in scientific circles - but vets are reluctant to look at the evidence too closely due to potential lost booster income. I am sorry to say this but long years of campaigning allow me to develop no other conclusion. The vets who have read my book take it very seriously. However, most refuse to read it.
"Once immunity to a virus exists, it persists for years or life." - Dr Ronald D Schultz, head of pathobiology at Wisconsin University. My own six-year-old Golden Retriever - Gwinnie - gives a good example of this. Gwinnie was vaccinated ONLY as a puppy. We got her when she was five months old, already vaccinated. She was never vaccinated again. Last year, at the age of six, Gwinnie had a blood test and this revealed that she still has high antibody levels to distemper and parvo. The advice from Professor Hal Thomson at Glasgow University was "no need to revaccinate". After SIX years.
DR Jean Dodds in America has just completed a study that shows much the same thing. You don't NEED to keep vaccinating your dogs. There is one exception, and this is the leptospirosis component of the vaccine. Lepto is a bacterin, not a virus, and you can't get permanent immunity to a bacterin. However, the vaccine has been described as 'useless' and there have been many calls for it to be withdrawn from the market. There are hundreds of strains of leptospirosis, but only two in the vaccine, AND it provides immunity (if at all) for only between three and six months. This means that your dog is probably unprotected against the two strains for around nine months of the year, and against all the other hundreds of strains for ever. Australian research shows that the lepto component of vaccines can cause horrendous side-effects, so top veterinary immunologists, microbiologists and pathobiologists have advised we don't use it.
Vaccines can cause a whole range of diseases.
Frick and Brooks, in 1983, showed that dogs who were genetically susceptible to develop atopic dermatitis ONLY contracted the condition IF they were vaccinated before being exposed to an allergen. So - vaccines trigger skin disease.
There are many, many studies which show that vaccines can cause arthritis. Vaccine components have even been found in the bones of arthritis sufferers.
Vaccine components have been found at the cancer sites of victims. Worse, they have been found at the cancer sites of the CHILDREN of the people who received the guilty vaccine. In other words, vaccines can cause inheritable cancer.
DR Jean Dodds has linked leukemia to vaccines. Also, Merck, a vaccine manufacturer, has linked leukemia to a leukemia-like retrovirus found in birds. Merck were investigating the link between this retrovirus and the eggs they cultivated the measles vaccine on. Distemper and measles are virtually the same virus, and both vaccines are cultivated on chick embryos.
Vaccines are acknowledged to cause inflammation of the brain and, in severe cases, lesions in the brain and throughout the central nervous system. This condition, known as encephalitis, lies at the root of much aggressive and violent behaviour, autism, epilepsy, attention deficit disorder, and other neurological conditions (for example, CDRM, Ataxia, etc).
It is widely acknowledged that vaccines can cause a whole range of autoimmune diseases, such as Cushings disease, Addisons disease, thyroid disease, autoimmune haemolytic anaemia, and many others. The scientific evidence is there for anyone who wants to look at it. DR Larry Glickman at Purdue University has found that routinely vaccinated dogs develop autoantibodies to a wide range of their own biochemicals. This means that vaccines cause dogs to attack their own bodies - which is what autoimmune disease is all about.
Some animals are genetically pre-disposed to suffer fatal reactions to vaccines, or to develop vaccine-induced disease.
The Merck Manual (the doctor's bible, published by a vaccine manufacturer) says that children with B and/or T cell immunodeficiencies should not receive live virus vaccines as the vaccine can stimulate a severe or FATAL infection. Not to put too fine a point on it, 'fatal' means death. Merck explains that features of B and T cell immunodeficiencies include eczema, dermatitis, heart disease, inhalant allergies, food allergies and neurological conditions. They say that humans suffering with any of these conditions, or from families with these conditions, should not receive live virus vaccines because the vaccine can kill them. Our dogs also have B and T cells, and B and T cell immunodeficiencies. So if your dog has allergies, or heart problems, or neurological problems . . . vaccines represent a life threatening risk.
Vaccines cause more diseases than they prevent.
This is the one the scientists are currently arguing about. You can probably guess which way I've fallen on the debate. In my humble opinion, vaccination is probably the worst thing we can do for someone we love. Obviously, this is a scary statement.
Let me tell you a little about why I'm here saying this to you. Oliver, a beautiful Golden Retriever, lost the use of his back legs one day when he was four years old. We rushed him to the vet but he was dead by four that afternoon. For two years, I asked every vet I met 'why?' No one could tell me until I met a homoeopathic vet called Chris Day, and he asked me when Ollie had last been vaccinated. He told me it was a classic vaccine reaction, falling within three months of the shot. Since then I have met many people whose dogs died in exactly the same way. Prudence, another Golden Retriever, died of leukemia when she was six. The last time I vaccinated her, her eyes rolled in her sockets, and she climbed up on my back, begging me not to have it done. But we carried on because I thought it was good for her. Distemper and parvo are horrible diseases, of course - but so is leukemia. You don't want to see a dog die this way. Samson's back legs were paralysed the day after his second puppy shot. I thought maybe someone had put poison down because I didn't know vaccines could do this. The next year he was boosted, and his head swelled up like a football and he ran around screaming - I now know that this was a massive allergic reaction to the vaccine. At the age of two we had a blood test done, and it came back autoimmune disease. He died of cancer at the age of five. Having studied the scientific evidence, I know that Sammie was killed the day a vaccine destroyed his immune system.
Edward and Daniel are three-year-old Golden Retrievers. Neither has ever been vaccinated. Not once. They are the healthiest two Goldens I have ever had the privilege to share my life with. No sickness, no diarrhea, no allergies, no illness. The vet doesn't know who they are - they have only ever visited to have their blood tested (both have antibodies to distemper and parvo . . . which means they've met the diseases but not succumbed). They also went to the vets a few weeks ago to have ticks removed. The vet remarked on how fit and healthy they were. But that's it - their entire veterinary history at the age of three.
Compare this with Samson's veterinary history! I was literally at the vet every two weeks with Sammie. Edward and Daniel are fed real food - raw meaty bones, vegetables, etc. This means that they have optimal immune systems, so they are in a good position to fight any viruses or bacterins that come along. They also receive the homeopathic vaccine alternative. When they were nine months old, my older vaccinated dogs contracted kennel cough. My two homoeopathically protected pups didn't cough once. reported meeting two 17 year old Golden Retrievers on the beach. Both ran and jumped around like young ones. The owner told her that they had never been vaccinated and, as he was a butcher, he had fed them raw meat. Seven years into the campaign, we are beginning to see the results of not vaccinating and feeding real food. Canine Health & Training Concern members are now constantly reporting that their dogs are incredibly healthy, and those who show are winning at all the shows.
Don't blame the 'irresponsible breeders' - blame vaccines. Without vaccines, you too can hope for long-lived friends who get through their lives without the crippling debilitating diseases that have become common in the dog population.
One last fact:
Vaccines don't offer GUARANTEED immunity.
Nearly all of the dogs in the CHC vaccine survey - which involved over 4,000 dogs and is still ongoing - contracted distemper, parvo, lepto, hepatitis, etc, within three months of being vaccinated.
My motivation is that you don't have to sit and watch your beloved friends die years before their time, or suffer from any of the many vaccine-induced diseases. We are making a terrible mistake on behalf of our animal friends. What we think is best for them is in fact the worst thing we can do. I am not alone in saying this - the very top veterinary specialists agree. We just need to get the other vets up to date. I promise you this - annual vaccination is coming to an end. We will look back in horror at what we used to do.
August 17th, 2006, 01:09 PM
Hmm... Beware of people who pull 'facts' out of studies and things. There is so much info in a study and it's really, really easy to just focus on the stuff that helps your point.
August 17th, 2006, 01:31 PM
so true, prin. this lady sounds a tad "extreme", IMO... i do believe in basic vaccines but not in the yearly booster shots, for the various reasons outlined below... basic immunology 101 :)
August 17th, 2006, 06:10 PM
I happen to be reading a book by her currently. (Shock to the System: The Facts About Animal Vaccination, Pet Food And How to Keep Your Pets Healthy by Catherine M. O'Driscoll) Two of her own dogs (Oliver & Prudence) died really young for no apparant reason which she has now linked to vaccinations. (through studies and talking with many vets) She is pretty extreme but has put a lot into the Canine Health Study and her research and it's pretty interesting stuff.
I do think that basic vaccines are needed just question the yearly need.
Oddly enough, I was at the vets today with my male who has a hot spot and I decided to ask about vaccinations. This is what I was told from the Dr. :
Rabies vaccines are the law. They (my clinic) offer either 1 year or 3 year vaccines. They reccommend annually until the dog is 7, then they go to 3. But she said the 3 year one is recognized by law just the same.
Cats require it yearly. She said they don't even offer the 3 year one because it has more of a risk of a chance of a tumor at the injection site. She also said that even indoor cats are required by law to be up-to-date on rabies vaccinations.
Then she showed me a chart from health Canada from 2005 with recorded rabies statistics. There were about 92 total - 1 in dogs,1 in cats, 62 in bats, 11 in cows and then the rest in other wildlife, skunks etc. So bats are the worst according to that.
So, that pretty well answers my question about the rabies vaccine. She seemed to say that they are different shots (the 1 year and the 3 year) but I didn't specifically think to ask that. I'll definately go for the 3 year unless there's some big risk with that one? Anybody know if there is a difference or what it might be?
August 17th, 2006, 08:42 PM
I don't know about Canada's laws, I suspect they varie widely from province and locality (tho I read an interesting paragraph about a Canadian border guard turning John Steinbeck away because he didn't have a Rabies cert. for Charley in "Travels with Charley." He turned him away because US border guards wouldn't allow Charley back into the US without one--rather nice of the C. border guard to do that!)
Here, current rabies vac. is required to get a dog license. For my puppy, it's among her puppy shots, and then one a year later, thereafter every three years. They charge more for unaltered pets, too, btw.
My vet uses killed virus for Rabies. It's safer, I understand, but doesn't provoke nearly as strong an immune response as attenuated live virus. Because revaccination is mandated by law, killed virus is the preferred vaccination. I will comply with the the legal requirements--for the reasons stated above--it's good insurance against an accident--for when Angie is out hiking and tangles with a skunk, opposum, squirrel, or raccoon. And it's almost mandatory from a liability standpoint. My dog doesn't seem to be in any way a biter, but if she did nip someone, it's a lot better to be able to prove that I've done my part in her rabies protection
Besides we might want to go into Canada (a very nice place) someday--it'd be nice to be able to get back into the US.
As for the other vacs. She will get her last puppy shot, and the boosters in a year. But after that, I am going to specifically OPT OUT of the boosters that Vet clinics seem to be constantly pushing on pet owners. Especially the DHLPP cocktail. Specifically, I'm going to have a florescent sticker made for Angies' file that says NO IMMUNIZATIONS WITH OUT OWNER'S CONSENT! And I will inform her doctor that I will not pay for unauthorized immunizations. Parvo & Distemper boosters, as well as the rest of them, are toxic to dogs. They work by making my dog sick.
It won't come up for a while, but I'm probably not going to allow ANY immunizations when my dog gets old and starts to fade. . .
Some little facts I've recently read:
Titering ONLY indicates the presence of antibodies NOT immunity. A dog can have immunity and NOT have antibodies in the bloodstream. If the dog or cat hasn't had exposure to the bug that triggers an immune response (antibody production) antibodies won't be present.
Exposure to other pets that have been recently vaccinated can provoke an immune response--the other dog is throwing off or shedding viruses from their vaccination and when your dog inhales these particles, it triggers antibody production.
Don't EVER allow immunization in conjunction with any procedure that requires anethesia. It can kill your pet! Also vaccinating an already immune compromised pet can be fatal.
(Source: Ebook, "Longer Life for the Dog You Love" Michelle Welton, 2004):dog:
August 17th, 2006, 08:49 PM
angie's man: great post! :thumbs up
February 17th, 2015, 01:54 PM
Hi there you might want to look up Rabies Law in Ontario. Sirius Dog.com very interesting
February 17th, 2015, 07:18 PM
Hi vengeance, welcome to the board. Check the date on these old posts, this one hasn't had a reply since 2006. It's easy to miss sometimes.