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My German Shepherd Puppies

Steacy77
August 12th, 2006, 10:13 PM
I just wanted to say hi to everyone and talk a bit about my 3 German Sheperd dogs. I have a beautiful male and 2 amazing females. My male is a year old now and very intelligent. His colour is sable and his name is Hunter. My females are working line dogs as well as my male and they are both dark sable. My youngest female is about 15 months and her name is Karma. My other female is almost 17 months and her name is Jetta. She is also pregnant and will probably be having her pups in a month. The 2 females are in obedience school and is up to advanced obedience. They are amazing dogs. Well thank you for your time.
Steacy

technodoll
August 12th, 2006, 10:34 PM
(warning, rant ahead. this is a pro-spay & pro-neuter forum so don't expect kudos for joining the BYB ranks...)

My other female is almost 17 months and her name is Jetta. She is also pregnant and will probably be having her pups in a month

holy cow. that is the equivalent of a 13-year old girl having a baby :(

no bitch should ever be bred before at LEAST 2 years of age (24 months) to allow time for physical & mental maturity. Also you cannot get an accurate hip clearance (OFA) before that age, the skeleton is still forming. How about other health clearances such as elbows, thyroid, CERF? is your dog from a champion bloodline, is she fully titled, with a pedigree that is sure to help improve the german shepherd (over)population? how did your breeder ever allow a bitch to be bred at 16 months of age?? :confused:

awe man. i hope this litter was an accident and after this, you will get ALL THREE dogs spayed & neutered to avoid any furture puppies to be born in an already-overflowing world.

Petfinder statistic: currently 7153 german shepherds listed, looking for homes. :yell:

LibbyP
August 13th, 2006, 08:04 PM
Welcome to the forum Steacy77, yes this is a pro spay/neuter site but not ALL members have their animals altered! This is a great forum to educate and inform others 'why and how come', hope you find tons of helpful information on the threads, look forward to chatting sometime:pawprint:

technodoll
August 13th, 2006, 08:25 PM
yes this is a pro spay/neuter site but not ALL members have their animals altered

of course :) didn't mean to come across as rude. however, letting a 16-month old bitch get pregnant is not responsible ownership IMO (unless it was a total accident, and i'm thinking in this case it was intentional) so you won't hear me cheering, sorry. :frustrated:

LibbyP
August 13th, 2006, 10:02 PM
This is a great forum to educate and inform others 'why and how come',

I'm not cheering either but there's nothing you/I can do about her dog being pregnant now, but welcome,ask to see pics, educate, offer sound advice and guidance (IMO):)

erykah1310
August 15th, 2006, 06:41 PM
I would like to first welcome you to the board, and of cource hope to see some pics soon.

However I am 100% with technodoll in her rant. However am not here to preach about it.

I do however hope you find all the pups wonderful forever homes in which the new owners will spay/neuter their pup.

I'll be keeping my fingers crossed.

rainbow
August 15th, 2006, 07:44 PM
Welcome Steacy. If you haven't been scared away by now, I'm sure if you ask the people on this board their reasons against BYB, they'll inform you in a civilized manner. :)

technodoll
August 15th, 2006, 09:06 PM
of course, civilised! :) we're not monsters... just very caring and very concerned pet lovers :love:

LibbyP
August 16th, 2006, 07:11 AM
Exactly my thoughts rainbow :thumbs up

gaz131
August 20th, 2006, 09:28 AM
I bet this new member was made to feel very welcome (not) in some ways i agree with what you said but spay/neuter for all dogs & cats where do the next generation of pups kittens come from if we all do this, and who are we as humans to prevent nature from takeing place, i know how i would feel if myself and wife was told that we could not have kids and i think that it is a good idea to let your dog/cat do what only comes natural at least once then spay/neuter but what need to done is to prevent people from breading the pets just for the money and not for the good of the bread to make sure that they all find good home and if this member has done just this then they will be new dog owners with pups bring joy to there homes. over population of dogs and cats is a problem. To put down the amount of german shepherds looking for homes with out putting how many good german shepherds which are in good home i find this a little unfair, after all if these pups had not been breed none of us would be sat here with them to talk about .

mama samoan
August 20th, 2006, 10:09 AM
Sorry to disagree with you gaz131 but letting nature take its course just once in a pets lifetime means our shelters and rescues are always working at full capacity. I have put up fences and tore out certain plants in my garden so that nature cannot takes it course, with my dogs running loose on busy roads, and possibly eating plants that are harmful to them. With that being said Steacy77 love to see some pictures of your shepherds, they are my very favourite. And good luck with your up coming babies.......

gaz131
August 20th, 2006, 11:09 AM
lol how can you say that if they was no one with a dog or a bitch able to produce pups you would not have one and its just my appinon but in my eyes i dont think i have the right to play god, after all thats what they was born able to do,and i think it is there right,but it is a very hard thing to get right and if done correctly homes can be found for the pups before they are born to make sure they have a good homes and follow up the pups as the grow with there new owners not all pups end up in shelters the pups my bitch had i still see now and 6 years have passed since they was born.

technodoll
August 20th, 2006, 11:21 AM
the problem with this logic, gaz131, is that the number of pets far outweigh the number of available homes by the hundreds of thousands, every year. where do all these "extra cats and dogs" have to go? :confused: a litter can average 6 to 12 puppies, twice per year per bitch (if you "let nature take its course), for 8 reproductive years. i'm sure you can do the math. it's NOTHING like one baby being born per year, per fertile woman. you can't "get rid of unwanted kids" like you can with pets in our disposable society.

where do future generations of pets come from? ideally, from reputable, ethical breeders who ONLY breed the best specimens on the genetics front, temperament front, etc to improve x y z breed. they make sure they have the proper homes for the pet's individual requirements, so the said dog or cat doesn't end up on the side of the road or in a shelter a few months or years down the road. that is an ideal world. enough pets for everybody, but not such a surplus that millions are euthanized every year because nobody wants them. and let's not TALK of those who end up in homes that neglect and abuse their pets! :(

your way of thinking cannot help the cause of these poor animals... please reconsider the Big Picture, and help prevent so many annual deaths. :pray:

Puppyluv
August 20th, 2006, 12:22 PM
The last thing any breed needs is uninfromed, misguided people "breeding" their dogs. I'm with TD, this dog is waaaayy too young to be giving birth. You want to let natute take its course gaz? so when your daughter (either real, or hypothetical) gets her first period, are you going to send her off into the world and say "go reproduce darling! Choose anyone that looks good to you and has some friends! Don't bother checking to see if you're related, becuase genetic diseases are no big deal, and at least your helping increase the human population! You may have a difficult pregnancy and birth because you're not fully grown, you may even die while giving birth, but it's a risk you should take so that you can at least experience it! You don't have to keep your babies either, you can put them up for adoption, and not worry about it, or dump them in the alley, hoping someone will find them! Good luck my young pre-pubescent daughter! It may not seem like it now, but I love you!"

Prin
August 20th, 2006, 12:58 PM
so when your daughter (either real, or hypothetical) gets her first period, are you going to send her off into the world and say "go reproduce darling! Actually, girls can get preggers even before their first menstruation, it could be even earlier! Woo!! :rolleyes:

gaz131
August 20th, 2006, 04:00 PM
It would help if you read what i put. I never said it was a good thing to let your young dog have pups, i said i did not think it was agood idea to not let your dog have the right to have a litter of pups at all, in my mind i would take the time to read what some one had put before i typed a reply but it seams that you are incapable of doing so hence the reply you made. I even said not in the same words that it better to have homes for the pups before you breed and I HAVE HAD ALL MY PUPS FROM VERY GOOD BREEDER AND PAYED GOOD MONEY TOO AND WOULD NOT BREED A DOG FROM A POOR DOG/BITCH OF ANY BREED. either real, or hypothetical the insult to my family/daughter was not realy called for and now i can see just why the member that started this thread has not put any thing on since what we all need to learn is that people have diferent veiws to others it does not make me right nore does it your selfs right. from reputable, ethical breeders who ONLY breed the best specimens on the genetics front, temperament front, etc to improve x y z breed. i could not agree more but as i have said take the time to read what is in front of you first. and the reputable, ethical breeders all had to start some where...

Prin
August 20th, 2006, 04:06 PM
Yes they did, but most ethical breeders have a spay/neuter clause unless they intend on being part of the next generation's breeding process. If you're starting from scratch, more often than not, you don't have the best quality dogs.

Why would an ethical breeder give you a puppy and let you breed it without ever being a part of it?

gaz131
August 20th, 2006, 04:29 PM
well if that the case where did the ethical breeder get there first dogs from did they just turn up in there back yards, and to answer your ? they dont give them away they sell them if you want the best you pay good money for them then you have the best to start from is that not the way it works

Prin
August 20th, 2006, 04:36 PM
Well obviously they sell them. :rolleyes: But I would hope that despite the money, the transaction is not just a purchase and the breeder does really know you before selling to you. That's why I said "give". To add some humanity to the transaction.

In this day and age, there are breeders who have been breeding for decades, so there is NO reason for anybody to start breeding from scratch with crap dogs and no mentor.

rainbow
August 20th, 2006, 07:38 PM
Oh, no, here we go again. :sad:

Golden Girls
August 20th, 2006, 09:06 PM
Yes they did, but most ethical breeders have a spay/neuter clause unless they intend on being part of the next generation's breeding process. If you're starting from scratch, more often than not, you don't have the best quality dogs.

Why would an ethical breeder give you a puppy and let you breed it without ever being a part of it?Exactly. I'd like to ask just how many people have purchased their dog from what a reputable breeder with a contract clause to S/N? The point is they as well as BYB's and millers are the cause of the over population in our pounds/SPCA's/rescues and are responsible for hundred of thousands of euthanizations yearly. Many people that have purebred or even mutts are doing exactly what the breeders are doing - selling puppies, sorry!

IMHO a reputable breeder will not just sell their pups. They will only breed twice and only after 2. A contract would be signed. They will then keep a female and continue the cycle. Personally I believe it's for the money. I think the whole dam world should just stop breeding and give some time for all the unwanted animals a chance - there are just too many. I can't recall who said this on another thread but anyone wanting to breed should 1st take a walk into their local pound, that might give them a different perspective :frustrated:

Furbaby Momma
August 21st, 2006, 08:28 AM
It was I Golden Girls.

First Steacy77 welcome to Pets.ca you have joined a wonderful forum where you will learn a lot. I just want to say that now that you have this batch of puppies, please make sure they stay with their mother till they are 10 weeks old. The reason being is puppies learn very substantial things and during this time you can have them vet checked dewormed and have their first vaccinations done, advertise them, interview the potential new family that will receive one of your pups and tell them about Pets.ca so that the members here can help educate them and give links to research about the breed. Then please ask the new families who their vet is and get them to make an appointment to make sure their puppies get the follow-up vaccinations and an appointment to have the puppy spayed or neutered at 6 months. Do a few follow-up calls to see how the new families are enjoying their new addition, and then please make an appointment to have your beautiful Female German Shepherd spayed and your male German Shepherd neutered and enjoy them for all the years they will be in your life.

Please, post some pictures of your fur family, and continue to enjoy all that Pets.ca has to offer by learning to be a better pet owner, as all of us learn everyday something new. :thumbs up

Golden Girls
August 21st, 2006, 08:51 AM
That is a very nice and thoughtful post with great advice Furbaby :) and your right her dog is already pregnant so I hope she does come back and gain some support here regarding the litter that's about to be born.

Good luck Steacy with Jetta :fingerscr for healthy puppies. I hope you decide to come back ... there are wonderful members here that can offer alot :)

marko
August 21st, 2006, 09:24 AM
I would ask again that members be polite to newbies and educate them gently, or ignore the thread altogether as per my signature.

Please re(read) the announcement on breeding/pregnancy threads located here: http://www.pets.ca/forum/announcement.php?f=32&a=33

Newbies will NEVER get educated when they are immediately put on the defensive. Would you?

These types of threads will not go away because the vast majority of pet owners are 'newbies'. It is up to us to educate or ignore.

Thanks as always for your help and understanding,

Marko
ADMIN

gaz131
August 21st, 2006, 01:10 PM
Now that the kind of advice that she should of got in the first place and hopefully she has not been scared off and will post on this site again as for myself as a newbie also i could understand why if she does not .

LibbyP
August 21st, 2006, 01:55 PM
:sorry: but gaz131 if YOU go back and read posts 3,5,6,7,8,9,11,22,23 you will see that we were being supportive from the beginning, this is a great forum to educate 'how come and why' I also hope she comes back and I hope others join, Welcome:pawprint:

technodoll
August 21st, 2006, 05:06 PM
libby you skipped all my posts! LMAO! :D

(i regret nothing) :angel:

LibbyP
August 21st, 2006, 05:23 PM
:rolleyes: Really technodoll I hadn't noticed hee hee hee;) Everyone here has a different point of view, in the end we are here to better educate others and ourselves, and our furry friends come first:highfive:

phoenix
August 21st, 2006, 06:15 PM
hmmm....

let me add it up.

All kinds of newbies posting about breeding.
All kinds of regulars posting vehemently DON'T BREED
The newbies are looking for help because they don't know what they're doing...
The regulars apparently know what they're doing (as they are being asked for help) and say, DON'T BREED.
The newbies don't like the answers they are given and complain...

Oh well it just doesn't add up.

If the Members post the "answers" to these types of questions, you only encourage all the lurkers who google and end up here to breed and breed and they don't even HAVE to post their questions; the answers are all here to see. If you want to know about breeding, puppy care, and those sorts of things, there are people who have the answers. They are called QUALITY BREEDERS. They are called VETS. You go and get a mentor and learn all about it before you even THINK of doing it. Looking on a PETS FORUM is the wrong place to go for this important information. You can politely tell these questioners to look elsewhere for answers I suppose, but I think it is irresponsible to post answers to these questions on the net.
It's ok to be mistaken or ill-informed; it's another thing completely to argue the fact.

MyBirdIsEvil
August 21st, 2006, 06:21 PM
but in my eyes i dont think i have the right to play god

By your reasoning, you are playing God just by breeding your dog. Dogs were originally created for use by humans. Your dog is there because years ago people decided to create dogs that they could utilize for their needs.

after all thats what they was born able to do

So were all females.
We as humans can decide who we take as our mates, whether or not that mate meets our standards, whether or not we are healthy enough to have a child, whether or not we are old enough to have a child, etc..
Some people may not take these things into account when they have a child, and it is their right to have a child either way. It is their body, and they are the ones deciding what will happen to THEMSELVES. It is a humans choice to be irresponsible with their OWN body and life.

Our dogs cannot decide these things, we must decide for them, because dogs cannot reason. Dogs cannot decide things like which mate is best, which is healthy enough, where their puppies will go, will they be well taken of etc.., and if you don't make the right choices for your dog, there is nothing they can do about it. And just because you have the ability to breed your dog, and your dog has the ability to mate and have puppies doesn't make it responsible.

In the wild, wolves look for certain qualities in mates, and then natural selection kills off any puppies that are not strong enough.
In civilized society it is not responsible to let natural selection take its course on an animal that we humans created. We created the health problems by breeding genetically unsound dogs. We created the physical problems by breeding dogs with bad physical qualities. We created the mental problems by breeding unstable dogs.

Do what you wish with your dog, but it does not make your choices responsible ones.

Prin
August 21st, 2006, 06:23 PM
Everybody's all, "You've all scared her away", but if you look at the chronology of it, she logged off and didn't come back before post #2 in this thread. She logged off at 10:23PM that day. So unless she's lurking and holding her opinions back, I doubt it has anything to do with the responses here.:shrug:

technodoll
August 21st, 2006, 06:56 PM
good point, prin.

i have a lot to say but :shrug: can't do it here... it's not "PC" :frustrated:

Prin
August 21st, 2006, 08:28 PM
What does Loblaws have to do with anything?

:D

LibbyP
August 21st, 2006, 09:13 PM
'PC' don't you mean Police college?:shrug: I know tons of police that have animals, and alot shop at Loblaws, they have yummy donuts and coffee from what I've been told

Prin
August 21st, 2006, 09:17 PM
Here Loblaws sells Krispy Kremes, so it's no coincidence there are a lot of cops there.

mona_b
August 22nd, 2006, 09:11 AM
how did your breeder ever allow a bitch to be bred at 16 months of age??

I also have to wonder this.And boy oh boy,I really hope that the one year old male is not the daddy.As this also proves that they have not been health/genetic tested.

Steacy77,this breed is very close to my heart.I was raised with this breed,and have raised 3 of them in the past 23 years.My current one is 10 years old.I was put on a non-breeding contract as I didn't want to show or use them as stud.And if I did't have them done at 6 months,I would have been sued for $5000.And yes,my breeder checked on every single pup put on this contract.They all came from working lines and great Pedigrees.My current is titled in SchH III.That's only because he is a retired Police Dog who served with my brother,and was mine to begin with as I did all the initial training with him.

All my boys were health/genetic tested.

Breeding your female should not have been done.She is FAR to young.No reputable breeder breeds their Dam under the age of 2,or a Sire under the age of 18 months.And won't breed if they are not health/genetic certified,Champions or titled in one way or another.

And I'm sorry to say,you breeder is not much of a breeder if he/she gave you the go ahead to breed your dogs untested or untitled.

This is a beautiful breed that is being ruined.

Unless you are going to have them health/genetic tested(certified),show and titled,I would suggest you have them all fixed.

My breeder would be rolling in her grave right now if she was able to see this.:sad:

Sorry Marie,I'm trying......:rip:

Blathach
August 26th, 2006, 10:16 AM
Thread closed.