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Puppy dry food recommendations needed

Violeta
August 10th, 2006, 10:04 AM
I am getting my dog in about 1.5 months and I want to make sure I already did my homework when comes to the food. Looking for small dog food.

In a lot of Toronto pet stores the sales associates push different types of food: SuperPet and Pj’s has Nutrience (they push this because it’s made by Hagen however this food has a lot of feelers and it is quite high in fat but it has good protein, no by-products or mixtures of protein that can be bad for dogs with sensitive stomachs).

Some brands that I think that would be good are: Merick, Innova, Wellness (wellness is baked not extruded so it tends to be digested too quickly).

Any help would be appreciated in this matter! :thumbs up

technodoll
August 10th, 2006, 10:08 AM
wellness is baked not extruded so it tends to be digested too quickly

umm no, they changed their forumla a little while ago, food is no longer baked, it is extruded. Any holistic brand is good IMO... depends on what your dog likes, what you can find, what your budget is, etc. here's a good list: http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=28957 j (if a food is listed as "all life stages" it's perfectly fine for a puppy).

good luck! :thumbs up

jessi76
August 10th, 2006, 10:20 AM
you posted about getting the maltese, right? a good friend of mine has a maltese, and she feeds wellness. Her dog does great on it.

ETA: her dog is about 2 now, so NOW he's on the adult lamb formula, but was on the puppy food when younger.

Puppyluv
August 10th, 2006, 10:22 AM
While she ate kibble, my girl was a Wellness girl, so I'm tempted to reccomend that one, but you should also look at Solid Gold

Prin
August 10th, 2006, 04:33 PM
Solid Gold makes a food for little dogs. It's more dense so you feed less. I feed the large breed version of it to my babies and they love it and are doing really well on it.
http://www.solidgoldhealth.com/products/showproduct.php?id=68&code=140
:)

Violeta
August 11th, 2006, 01:51 PM
I can find Wellness all over the place here and the ingredients for the puppy food look great:

Ingredients:
Deboned Chicken, Chicken Meal, Oatmeal, Ground Barley, Salmon Meal (natural source of DHA), Canola Oil (preserved with mixed tocopherols, a natural source of vitamin E), Ground Brown Rice, Rice Bran (from brown rice), Tomatoes (natural source of lycopene), Natural Chicken Flavor, Rye Flour, Ground Millet, Flaxseed, Carrots, Apples, Spinach, Blueberries, Sweet Potatoes, Potassium Chloride, Calcium Carbonate, Dicalcium Phosphate, Zinc Sulfate, Zinc Proteinate (a chelated source of zinc), Iron Proteinate (a chelated source of iron), Ferrous Sulfate, Copper Proteinate (a chelated source of copper), Copper Sulfate, Manganese Proteinate (a chelated source of manganese), Manganese Sulfate, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite, Choline Chloride, Beta-Carotene, Vitamin E Supplement, Ascorbic Acid, Vitamin A Supplement, Niacin, Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin, Vitamin D-3 Supplement, Pyrodoxine Hydrochloride, Thiamine Mononitrate, Folic Acid, Biotin, Vitamin K Supplement, Vitamin B-12 Supplement, Chicory Root Extract, Garlic, Taurine, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Green Tea Extract, Lactobacillus plantarum, Enterococcus faecium, Lactobacillus casei, Lactobacillus acidophilus.
Old Mother Hubbard uses ethoxyquin-free meat sources.

Guaranteed Analysis:
Crude Protein: Not Less Than 28.0%
Crude Fat: Not Less Than 17.0%
Crude Fiber: Not More Than 5.0%
Moisture: Not More Than 11.0%
Vitamin E: Not Less Than 150 IU/kg
Calcium: Not Less Than 13.0%
Omega 6 Fatty Acids: Not Less Than 3.0%
Omega 3 Fatty Acids: Not Less Than 1.0%
Beta Carotene*: Not Less Than 5 mg/kg
DHA*: Not Less Than 0.13%
Lycopene*: Not Less Than 0.25mg/kg
Taurine*: Not Less Than 0.09%
* Not recognized as an essential nutrient by the AAFCO Dog Food Nutrient Profiles

Calories Analysis (calories per cup):
1 Cup 430



Unlike most other dry foods that are rapidly extruded during the manufacturing process, Old Mother Hubbard slowly oven bakes its Wellness Super5Mix foods and treats to preserve and enrich the nutrients, and to enhance the aroma. Wellness does not contain any rendered animal fats, meat by-products, wheat, corn or white rice and also does not contain any artificial colors, flavors or preservatives of any kind.


So, what is really the deal with extruded vs. baked :confused:
I was not abble to fnd alot of info about this

technodoll
August 11th, 2006, 02:40 PM
all i know is that wellness USED to bake their kibble, now they extrude it and call it "enhanced formula" ... one of the reps told me that at a dog show, she was giving out samples, etc... and i do remember reading an article on the subject not too long ago but dang if i can find it, LOL!

Violeta
August 11th, 2006, 02:53 PM
I went to the store and checked the bag and it said that the pellets are backed this is why I am confused now, some1 here said that they do not bake it anymore .... well, they still do, at leats the puppy food :(

technodoll
August 11th, 2006, 02:58 PM
I just emailed the company (Old Mother Hubbard) to find out what the real story is... even i am :confused: now, LOL! I'll let you know what they say :)

Violeta
August 11th, 2006, 03:34 PM
I just emailed the company (Old Mother Hubbard) to find out what the real story is... even i am :confused: now, LOL! I'll let you know what they say :)


that is great !! Thanks' :thumbs up

rainbow
August 11th, 2006, 04:02 PM
There's info on Wellness in the Dog Food Forum. ;)

Violeta
August 11th, 2006, 04:04 PM
I just talked to a friend of mine that is a supervisor / dog nutritionist at a pet store, although she works at a pet store she does have a lot of knowledge and loves what she does.

We ware talking about the baked vs. extruded pellets, she said the same, that baked food is a little inferior to extruded kibble, the dog needs to eat more.

She also said that corn was “demonized” by some companies (i.e. Nutro especially) however it is safe and non irritating to the dogs stomach so, it is not bad for the dogs. Oatmeal for example makes dogs fart …lol; and it is hard to digest. Apparently corn and brown rice are the best carbs to put in dog kibble.

Dude this is sooo complicated :frustrated:

Violeta
August 11th, 2006, 04:25 PM
There's info on Wellness in the Dog Food Forum. ;)



:sorry: , I didn't even know that there is such a forum ..... :D

White Wolf
August 11th, 2006, 04:35 PM
Here is a recent thread about Wellness.
http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=29277

Golden Girls
August 11th, 2006, 05:09 PM
I know many people who use Wellness and love the product. I myself use Solid Gold. Just received their latest catalogue and they've introduced a new product "Barking at the Moon" to their line. You can always visit them @ www.solidgoldhealth.com. Their latest catalogue 9 is available upon request. It's great your wanting to invest in the time of what's best to feed him/her :thumbs up Good luck!

Golden Girls
August 11th, 2006, 05:11 PM
Sorry, I didn't realize Prin already included that link.

technodoll
August 11th, 2006, 05:39 PM
She also said that corn was “demonized” by some companies (i.e. Nutro especially) however it is safe and non irritating to the dogs stomach so, it is not bad for the dogs. Oatmeal for example makes dogs fart …lol; and it is hard to digest. Apparently corn and brown rice are the best carbs to put in dog kibble.

i'm sorry but your friend, sadly, is misinformed... corn is not digestible by dogs and is used only as a cheap filler in kibble. this site is easy to understand, navigate, and contains very correct information on which ingredients to avoid in dog food: http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=badingredients

:thumbs up

Violeta
August 11th, 2006, 06:21 PM
i'm sorry but your friend, sadly, is misinformed... corn is not digestible by dogs and is used only as a cheap filler in kibble.
:thumbs up

I was thinking the same however there are filers a lot worst then corn. I do not know what to believe anymore because a lot of “professionals” are telling me that corn is ok and that foods with a lot of protein sources are bad …

I am not going to get something that has corn in it either way. I am aiming for brown rice and hopefully only 1 type of protein at least in the beginning and it looks like the only decent choice I have in this case is Canidae Chicken and Rice formula but I am wondering if my little dog will be ok with the kibble size. :rolleyes:
I like Wellness also and if Canidae (if I don’t find something better) doesn’t work then I will try it.


Chicken and Rice Formula

Benefits:
Single Protein Source Made with Chicken and Brown Rice, Excellent for Problem Skin & Allergies, 10 Natural Skin & Coat Conditioners, Balanced Omega 6 & 3 Fatty Acids, Antioxidant Vitamins & Amino Acid Chelated Minerals, Holistic & Herbal Benefits, Formulated for All Life Stages Puppies, Adults, Seniors & Overweight

All Natural Ingredients:
Chicken Meal, Brown Rice, White Rice, Chicken Fat (preserved with Mixed Tocopherols), Flax Seed, Sun Cured Alfalfa Meal, Sunflower Oil, Chicken, Lecithin, Monocalcium Phosphate, Potassium Chloride, Choline Chloride, Linoleic Acid, Rosemary Extract, Sage Extract, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Mixed Tocopherols (source of Vitamin E), Zinc Amino Acid Chelate, Manganese Amino Acid Chelate, Iron Amino Acid Chelate, Copper Amino Acid Chelate, Cobalt Amino Acid Chelate, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Ascorbic Acid (source of Vitamin C), Niacin, Thiamine Mononitrate (Vitamin B1), Riboflavin (source of B2), Beta Carotene, Calcium Pantothenate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B6), Calcium Iodate, Folic Acid, D-Biotin, Sodium Selenite, Dried Papaya, Vitamin B12 Supplement.

Calculated Caloric Content:
ME (kcal/kg) 4178
ME (kcal/g) 4.18
ME (kcal/lb) 1899
ME (kcal/cup) 475

Guaranteed Analysis:
Crude Protein (min.) 26.00%
Crude Fat (min.) 15.50%
Crude Fiber (max.) 4.00%
Moisture (min.) 10.00%
Linoleic Acid (Omega 6) (min.) 3.70%
Calcium (min.) 1.20%
Phosphorus (min.) 0.90%
Magnesium (min.) 0.14%
Vitamin E (min.) 200.00 IU/kg
Alpha Linoleic Acid (Omega 3) (min.) 0.60%
Ascorbic Acid (Vitamin C) 50.00 mg/kg
pH 6.0

Daily Feeding Guidelines

Dog Weight Puppies Adult Light/Senior
(up to 6 mos.) (with exercise)
2-10 lbs. 1/2-1 1/2 cups 1/2-3/4 cup 1/4-1/2 cup
15-25 lbs. 1 1/2 cups 3/4-1 cup 1/2-3/4 cup
25-50 lbs. 2-4 cups 1-2 cups 1/2-1 cup
50-75 lbs. 4-5 cups 2-3 cups 1-1 1/2 cups
75-100 lbs. 5-6 cups 3-4 cups 1 1/2-3 cups


Feed Pregnant Dogs up to 50% more during the last 3 weeks of pregnancy.
During Lactation and Puppies up to 6 months old, require twice the amount of food as an adult dog and they should be fed 3 to 4 times a day. Puppies six months to a year, twice daily.
Senior and Overweight Dogs may be fed a reduced amount, depending on the dogs weight and activity level.

Prin
August 11th, 2006, 10:15 PM
Canidae is good too. I wouldn't worry about the size too much. My friend's 4.5 lb minpin ate wellness puppy and now eats wellness Super5Mix chicken, and chews the kibbles. They're pretty easy to chew (they aren't too hard).

BMDLuver
August 12th, 2006, 07:17 AM
http://www.frommfamily.com/products_fourstardry_duck.asp

Personally, when I have a small one to feed puppy or adult, I normally go with Fromm. Easy size for them to manage, levels just fine for pup or adult. Also Maltese are like Bichon in that they can have a meriad of allergies normally so I pick the Duck one in particuliar. Just my two cents worth.

PetFriendly
August 12th, 2006, 03:25 PM
My guy was really hard to feed, most things would give him the runs. I found chicken worked best, lamb didn't seem to agree with him. He's on Performatrin Ultra - Salmon and Rice as its designed to give him a better feeling of fullness (his portion size is ridiculously small) and knowing he feels full makes me feel better!

http://www.performatrinultra.com/puppy/pdi_chicken.htm

Puppyluv
August 12th, 2006, 03:49 PM
I just emailed the company (Old Mother Hubbard) to find out what the real story is... even i am :confused: now, LOL! I'll let you know what they say :)

LOL, ahhh TD, Rainbow and I are one step ahead of you:

The response from OMH:



Thank you for taking the time to write Old Mother Hubbard and Wellness. We have taken the best qualities of baking and optimized the extrusion process. This is not a "cost effective" change; the extrusion technology has finally caught-up with the baking process and in some areas exceeds the baking process. The food is extruded, and then gets cooked to make sure there is enough moisture. Density is still the same. It was high in baked and is also high now, because there is no air in the food. LESS VOLUME=HIGHER DIGESTABILITY.

We use no rendered fats, or animal fats in our foods; we use all natural flavors to flavor our foods. Natural flavor is used for its ability to improve the taste of dry foods. It is sprayed on the exterior of dry food or dusted on after canola oil is sprayed on the dry food. Our enhanced formula is preferred 3 to 1 over the older kibble product we used to manufacture. We always closely monitored what goes into our products, and oversee the process closely. This has not changed and will continue to be the case. We will always apply a holistic approach to our foods and treats.

Sincerely,

Mike Shapiro
Specialist
Consumer Affairs

rainbow
August 12th, 2006, 04:11 PM
Actually, I emailed them about the menadione confusion.
Still waiting for a reply. :rolleyes:

Puppyluv
August 12th, 2006, 04:13 PM
Actually, I emailed them about the menadione confusion.
Still waiting for a reply. :rolleyes:
Oh that's right, hmm maybe their response to you needs a little more "spinning" :p

rainbow
August 12th, 2006, 04:31 PM
LOL....No Doubt. :D

If I don't hear anything this week I'll email them again. ;)

Violeta
August 12th, 2006, 08:37 PM
in many foods, Flaxseed is quite high on the ingredient list (5-6 ingredient) is this ok? I was thinking that so much flaxseed could be a problem right ...

technodoll
August 12th, 2006, 08:48 PM
from http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=labelinfo101:

A good rule of thumb to distinguish the major components of a food is to look for the first named source of fat in the ingredient list. Anything listed before that, and including it, make up the main portion of the food, other items are present in much smaller amounts to add flavor, function as preservatives or because of their dietary benefits (e.g. probiotics, vitamins and minerals).

Examples:
Food A has the following ingredient list (first source of fat marked green):
Ground yellow corn, meat meal, chicken fat, ground wheat, chicken byproduct meal, dried beet pulp, flaxseed, salt, vitamins, minerals...

Food B has the following ingredient list (first source of fat marked green):
Turkey, chicken, chicken meal, ground barley, ground brown rice, potatoes, ground white rice, chicken fat, herring, apples, carrots, cottage cheese, sunflower oil, alfalfa sprouts, egg, garlic, probiotics, vitamins, minerals...

This is important to know when looking for ingredients that may not necessarily be harmful but should only be present in small amounts in a quality product (beet pulp, corn gluten meal etc.).

technodoll
August 14th, 2006, 07:01 PM
finally got a reply from Old Mother Hubbard in regards to Wellness:

Thank you for taking the time to write about Wellness Foods.

The Enhanced Dry Dog Food is now cooked using a slow extrusion process. We no longer bake the dry dog food.

Since 1926, Old Mother Hubbard has been working closely with veterinarians
and breeders to understand the nutritional requirements of animals. We
manufacture only the highest quality pet foods, using healthy, natural
ingredients. Our organization prides itself on making the best pet foods and
treats available today.

Sincerely,

Nicole Bibeau
Specialist
Consumer Affairs



... i guess it's pretty clear now, if you buy a bag that says BAKED... it's an old bag! check the expiry date.... :eek:

rainbow
August 14th, 2006, 08:51 PM
:frustrated: :frustrated: :frustrated: I emailed them a week before you TD and I still don't have an answer re the menadione. :yell:

Violeta
August 15th, 2006, 11:02 AM
Thank you technodoll for the update.

Bu they still bake the puppy formula right ?? :sick:

technodoll
August 15th, 2006, 11:26 AM
no, they do not bake *any* of their products anymore... sorry :sad:

rainbow
August 15th, 2006, 11:33 AM
I've been reading on another dog food forum that some people are saying Wellness is now causing kidney problems. Someone has emailed Wellness with their concerns but have not received a reply yet. For any of you that want to read the comments the website is:

www.groups.yahoo.com/group/Commercial_Dog_Food_Comparison/

Prin
August 15th, 2006, 11:46 AM
Ok, maybe I'm just numb today, but why is extrusion so bad? The high temps? From what I've read, sometimes extrusion is just pressure and not high temps... How would they have made the kibble before baking without extruding? I can't imagine a factory of people rolling them into little balls.:confused:

mafiaprincess
August 17th, 2006, 08:52 PM
I always thought extrusion was like pumping out spaghetti pieces.. That it was shaping nothing more.......

technodoll
August 17th, 2006, 11:44 PM
from http://www.drsfostersmith.com/pic/article.cfm?siteid=12&acatid=169&aid=375

How is dry pet food manufactured?
Dry foods are most commonly made in a process called extrusion. However, they can also be baked or pelleted. In the extrusion process, raw materials are first ground to the correct particle size (usually the consistency of coarse flour). Grinding increases the availability of nutrients, as well as the ease with which they are processed. The ground ingredients are then mixed to create a consistent product, ensuring that essential nutrients are correctly balanced in each individual piece of the finished product.
[ Back to Top ]

The mixed dry ground materials are then extruded, a process that includes mixing, kneading, proofing (rising), shaping, rising again, and slicing. The dry mix is first preconditioned to start the gelatinization of the starches. The preconditioner very accurately measures the amount of the dry mix and blends it with the measured liquid portion that can include fat, meat products, additional water, and steam. This wet mix stays in the preconditioner for about 45 seconds. While in the preconditioner, the starch is cooked about 25%. The preconditioned food then moves to an extruder, a cylindrical multi-segmented barrel that propels, mixes, and further cooks the material, and then forces it through a die where it is cut to the desired length. The product moving through the extruder produces its own friction and heat, which then cooks the mix. The speed and friction levels can be varied depending on the formula, to ensure that the product is cooked at the correct temperature for the right length of time.

The newly formed, soft and spongy kibbles are then transferred from the extruder to the dryer where additional moisture is removed. Most kibble takes about 15 minutes to dry properly. If kibble is dried too quickly or at too high a temperature, it will be more fragile and break during handling.

The kibble then goes through a cooling process of around 7 minutes. If the kibble is too hot when it leaves the dryer and is packaged before it cools, condensation will develop, which will encourage the growth of mold or bacteria in the package.

Enrobing, the last step in the manufacture of dry pet foods, entails the addition of either liquids or powders to the outer surface of the kibble. Fat and flavor enhancers are usually added at this stage. Fat is not usually added in the mixing stage because it can disrupt starch gelatinization. Fat and flavor enhancers greatly improve taste and palatability, and are most effective when applied to the outside of the kibble.

Prin
August 17th, 2006, 11:51 PM
What is bad about that?

technodoll
August 18th, 2006, 12:16 AM
i dunno! :shrug:

Prin
August 18th, 2006, 12:22 AM
lol I'd almost rather that than some 12 year old with blistered feet rolling my doggies' kibble into little balls. :o

I think people confuse extrusion with rendering.

technodoll
August 18th, 2006, 08:05 AM
I think people confuse extrusion with rendering.

maybe! although all the "meat meal" in kibble IS rendered.... :rolleyes:

OntarioGreys
August 18th, 2006, 09:05 AM
She also said that corn was “demonized” by some companies (i.e. Nutro especially) however it is safe and non irritating to the dogs stomach so, it is not bad for the dogs. Oatmeal for example makes dogs fart …lol; and it is hard to digest. Apparently corn and brown rice are the best carbs to put in dog kibble.


She has proved she has no clue,

Here is some of the Nutro formulas, I think I see corn list in just a few... I wonder why Nutro would be demonizing corn and using it at the same time :rolleyes:

Nutro Natural Choice Large Breed Puppy - Chicken Meal, Ground Rice, Corn Gluten Meal


Natural Choice High Energy - Chicken Meal, Ground Rice, Corn Gluten Meal,

Natural Choice Large Breed Adult - Chicken Meal, Ground Rice, Rice Flour, Corn Gluten Meal

Natural Choice Large Breed Weight Management - Ground Rice, Chicken Meal, Rice Bran, Wheat Flour, Dried Beet Pulp, Corn Gluten Meal,

Natural Choice Large Breed Senior - Rice Flour, Chicken Meal, Rice Bran, Wheat Flour, Corn Gluten Meal,

MAX Puppy - Chicken Meal, Corn Gluten Meal
MAX Large Breed Puppy - Beef Meal, Ground Rice, Corn Gluten Meal,

rivers
August 18th, 2006, 09:30 AM
My puppy hated Wellness. She refused to eat it. After three days I changed to Solid Gold Hunden en Flocken, she loved it. But after almost a year of eating the same food and same flavour I have switched to Natural Blend, it is holistic, but cheaper. She likes this brand more than the prev. brands. I'm sticking to this.

Remember to post pics of your pup when she arrives!

Prin
August 18th, 2006, 11:50 AM
Rivers, if that one stops working, you can try the Just A Wee Bit... It's supposed to be more dense so you feed even less (made for little active doggies).:)

rainbow
August 18th, 2006, 04:14 PM
Is Natural Blend the one made by Medi-cal (Techni-cal) ? :confused:

Prin
August 18th, 2006, 04:16 PM
"Sensible Choice® is a registered trademark of Royal Canin USA" ;)
http://www.naturalblend.com/SCHPRD.HTM

Prin
August 18th, 2006, 04:18 PM
k, call me a grain moron, but what is "flax"? I've seen flaxseed, flax oil, but what is just plain "flax"?
(They have it in their "adult dog food")

rainbow
August 18th, 2006, 05:34 PM
I found it (Canadian):

http://www.royalcanin.ca/products/tc/nb/adult_en.php


Ingredients:Chicken meal, whole brown rice, pearl barley, chicken fat (naturally preserved with mixed tocopherols, rosemary extract and citric acid), brewers rice, chicken, whole oatmeal, natural flavours, beet pulp, salmon meal, dried eggs, tomato pomace, potassium chloride, whole flaxseed, salt, apple pomace, carrot pomace, brewers yeast, whole alfalfa, calcium carbonate, canola oil, chicory extract, whole spinach, choline chloride, salmon oil, Vitamins (vitamin A, vitamin D3, vitamin E, niacin, vitamin C, inositol, d-calcium pantothenate, thiamine mononitrate, riboflavin, beta-carotene, pyridoxine hydrochloride, folic acid, vitamin K, biotin, vitamin B12), Minerals (zinc proteinate, zinc oxide, ferrous sulfate, iron proteinate, copper proteinate, copper sulfate, manganese proteinate, manganous oxide, calcium iodate, sodium selenite), whole broccoli, whole sweet potatoes, whole apples, whole blueberries, whole pears, whole bananas, dried kelp, yucca shidigera extract, cinnamon, turmeric, capsicum, paprika, garlic, chamomile, dandelion, probiotics (dried Lactobacillus acidophilus fermentation product, dried Enterococcus faecium fermentation product, dried Lactobacillus plantarum fermentation product, dried Lactobacillus lactis fermentation product, dried Bifidobacterium bifidum fermentation product, dried Enterococcus diacetylactis fermentation product).

The Vitamin K listed is menadione sodium bisulfite complex. This is one of the companies I emailed awhile ago and they insisted it wasn't a bad ingredient. :rolleyes: If I ever get time they're on my list of Canadian companies to email again.

It also has citric acid as one of the preservatives in case you have a concern with bloat.

rainbow
August 18th, 2006, 05:36 PM
k, call me a grain moron, but what is "flax"? I've seen flaxseed, flax oil, but what is just plain "flax"?
(They have it in their "adult dog food")


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flax

Maybe they just say "flax" in the U.S. :shrug:

Prin
August 18th, 2006, 05:39 PM
Yeah, but do they really throw the whole plant in there?

My dog, how little salmon oil must they put in there so that it ends up right before the vitamins? Wow.

And most of the ingredients are after the fat (meaning they don't even matter).

(oh, and there's more menadione than broccoli, blueberries and bananas.. Interesting choice, Royal canin...:rolleyes: )

rainbow
August 18th, 2006, 05:59 PM
Yeah, I always thought the vitamins and minerals were supposed to be the last ingredients on the list. And the tomato pomace, apple pomace and carrot pomace come before some of the whole veggies and fruit. :rolleyes:

technodoll
August 18th, 2006, 06:06 PM
clever marketing bastids, ain't they? :evil:

rainbow
August 18th, 2006, 06:34 PM
Right on. And there's lots more like them. :sad: :evil:

Prin
August 18th, 2006, 07:35 PM
Ok, tomato pomace is the skin, right?
According to Natura:
Tomato pomace is the mixture of tomato skins, pulp, and crushed seeds.

This is an inexpensive byproduct with the potential for pesticide residues in discarded tomato skins, which are the largest component of tomato pomace.So what.... the... hey... is CARROT pomace?

Maybe they try to be sneaky and group all of the vitamins together so it looks bigger? Kinda dumb, considering the it's the other ingredients that should be jacked up...

mafiaprincess
August 18th, 2006, 10:00 PM
This would be why I've never looked at a bag of royal canin seriously.. I don't see it as all that much different than iams, eukanuba or whatever.. They just have better marketing and have suckered people in with the food line of foods for specific breeds..

rainbow
August 18th, 2006, 10:21 PM
So what.... the... hey... is CARROT pomace?

The peelings? :shrug:



When you buy a can of crushed tomatoes aren't you getting the pulp and the seeds in it?

Prin
August 18th, 2006, 10:29 PM
Yeah, but don't they take the skins out?

rainbow
August 18th, 2006, 10:52 PM
Yep, it's just the pulp and seeds as far as I know. So if tomato pomace is:

Tomato pomace is the mixture of tomato skins, pulp, and crushed seeds.

This is an inexpensive byproduct with the potential for pesticide residues in discarded tomato skins, which are the largest component of tomato pomace.

Isn't that the whole tomato? When I eat a tomato I eat the skin but I do wash it first so therefore would get rid of any pesticide residue. :o

So, the way I look at it, the only bad thing in tomato pomace is the skin and only because of the pesticide residue.

Prin
August 18th, 2006, 10:57 PM
Yeah, I never thought it was bad. It's way better than beet pulp, if you need a stool hardener. I just used that definition to ask what they hey carrot pomace is... It's got no skin, no pulp and no seeds.

(It is mostly skins though)

rainbow
August 18th, 2006, 11:09 PM
So if Natural Blend took out the menadione, beet pulp, brewers rice, brewers yeast, apple pomace and carrot pomace, and put all the fruits and veggies ahead of the vitamins and minerals (which means they'd have to increase the amounts), they have not a bad food. :D

Oh, and also explain what the natural flavours are. :confused:

Prin
August 18th, 2006, 11:58 PM
Exactly. Here's hopin'.:fingerscr

mafiaprincess
August 19th, 2006, 12:11 AM
Makes me think the definition is leaving something out.. Since grape pomace is what is left after grape juice is made.. So not much.. And apple pomace is just as tasty (and in this food)..

Apple pomace is the waste product from juicing apples.

Apple pomace has low nutritional value, and is mainly used as an inexpensive source of fiber.
Fiber in Natura products comes from whole ground grains, fruits and vegetables which supply a good balance of soluble and insoluble fiber

Prin
August 19th, 2006, 12:39 AM
do do do, do do do, do do do do do... (V8 commercial song :D) Have you had your full serving of vegetable pesticides today?

technodoll
August 19th, 2006, 09:21 AM
so tomato pomace is what's left over after the juice has been extracted, if i understand correctly? and by the posted definitions, that would mean "pomace" is the leftover of any fruit & veggie after the juice has left the building? i can't see that as being too terrible, unless the product is dirty & pesticide-ridden to begin with...? :shrug:

Prin
August 19th, 2006, 10:22 AM
It's not too terrible except that there is hardly any of the good stuff left.

technodoll
August 19th, 2006, 10:38 AM
yep... that good stuff's for us humans... remember, "theys just dawgs" :frustrated:

rainbow
August 19th, 2006, 10:41 AM
So, pomace is an inexpensive ingredient used to fool naive consumers into believing that their food has the benefit of the actual veggie or fruit. :rolleyes:

Prin
August 19th, 2006, 04:40 PM
Yep and then they get hard stools because of the pomace and they think, hey, this is GREAT food! :highfive: