Pets.ca - Pet forum for dogs cats and humans 

-->

Ever tried Petcurean food?

dogmelissa
July 31st, 2006, 03:04 PM
I found this when I was in a pet store I don't normally go to (just because of where it is, not because it's bad!): Petcurean dog food (they apparently have cat food as well, but I didn't look for it). Their website is http://petcurean.com/

This is a Canadian-made food, which made me excited. Ingredient listing on the bag (it was a Go! formula I looked at) sounded good, no grains, no byproducts, has fruits & veggies in it and sounds good. Price is comparable to Eagle Pack & Solid Gold (aka, it's not cheap, but not outrageous, either).

Has anyone tried this? Likes, disklikes? I don't want to judge based on the website or the price, I'd like to have some actual experience. I like to support Canadian companies, and since my dog has a beef allergy, this might be something I can try with him.

Thanks!
Melissa

Prin
July 31st, 2006, 09:12 PM
They still have the bad vitamin K supplement (menadione sodium bisulfate complex). But otherwise, they're ok (if you don't mind the vitamin k thing).

rainbow
August 1st, 2006, 10:06 AM
I heard they were taking the menadione sodium bisulfite complex out. I will double check and let you know. :dog:

rainbow
August 1st, 2006, 11:12 AM
It has been removed. :thumbs up The following was posted on the dog food project website (www.dogfoodproject.com) as of May 19, 2006:

For today I'd like to leave you with some more good news about the removal of Menadione from pet foods:

Petcurean

Thank-you for your enquiry. This ingredient has been removed from our food, and will take about 6 months for us to be through the bags we have in stock.

Prin
August 1st, 2006, 11:14 AM
Yeah, but the 6 months isn't over yet.;)

dogmelissa
August 1st, 2006, 06:22 PM
Ok, so what's bad about the "bad" vitamin K, and does the package indicate either when it was made or what version of vitamin K is in there?

And otherwise, have any of you used it? What was the result? Good, bad, no change?

My dog is still eating Eagle Pack and doing 99% well (has soft poos but not diarrhea) and I bought a bag of Dick Van Patten's food to try him on after that, so I can always wait a few months and then consider trying the Petcurean. Or if the Petcurean is a better option than Dick Van Patten's, then I can take that stuff back. Thoughts?

Melissa

Prin
August 1st, 2006, 06:26 PM
The package will either say Vitamin K3 supplement or Menadione sodium bisulfate complex. Some replace the sodium with something else but the menadione bisulfate is always there. ;) What's bad about it is it creates free radicals and can disrupt some normal cellular functions. If you have no choice but to feed a food with menadione in it, be sure to feed tons of antioxidants to counter the production of free radicals. Free radicals are bad- they change DNA which can result in tumors and cancers.

There is just no point of it being in the food because natural vitamin K sources are pretty cheap and readily available (like alfalfa). A lot of the better dog food companies are removing the synthetic vitamin K from their foods.

rainbow
August 2nd, 2006, 11:36 AM
I read on another forum that Petcurean has taken the menadione out of their formula but it's going to take six months for them to use up the bags that state the ingredient is still in there. :o

Also, some companies just list Vitamin K as an ingredient but if you contact them you will be told that it is menadione (e.g. Natural Balance and Acana plus others I can't think of right now).

Prin
August 2nd, 2006, 11:49 AM
I read on another forum that Petcurean has taken the menadione out of their formula but it's going to take six months for them to use up the bags that state the ingredient is still in there. lol you said that already. :D :dog:
At least Newman's Own gave a date, you know? Like "Bags with this expy and beyond are K3 free!"

rainbow
August 2nd, 2006, 12:24 PM
lol you said that already.

No, I didn't. I quoted what was posted on the dog food project website. The comment about they have six months to use up the old bags while getting new ones made was from another dog forum. :p

Three cheers for Paul. :highfive:

Prin
August 2nd, 2006, 04:06 PM
lol but this from post #4 :confused:
Thank-you for your enquiry. This ingredient has been removed from our food, and will take about 6 months for us to be through the bags we have in stock.
:D Ah, well, doesn't matter as long as the info gets across somehow.:D

Yey Paul indeed.:D

rainbow
August 2nd, 2006, 04:57 PM
Sorry you're still confused :confused: with my post. :D

I was led to believe from the other forum (not the dog food project website)that menadione is out of their food but it will take them six months to use up the empty bags they have in stock.

Anyways, I have sent an email to Petcurean to clear up the matter and will post here when I receive an answer. :D

dogmelissa
August 2nd, 2006, 05:53 PM
Ok... I found this: http://www.fda.gov/cvm/FOI/VKAS_EA.pdf
It's not dated, but based on the dates cited, it's fairly old (1991?).

Based on what they wrote in here, I'm not actually concerned about menadione in my pet's food. They say that it degrades quickly in sunlight or any kind of UV light, and has a short half-life in animal feeds (ie, it degrades quickly). Even if my dog food was made with it, by the time it gets to me, it's probably degraded. If it's not, I'm sure by the time I get through the bag, it would be, as I have a 9 lb dog and usually buy the 20lb bag of food, which takes many months to go through.

And I've also just noticed that my dog's current food, Eagle Pack Duck & Oatmeal, does *not* contain menadione. It does contain something which could be easily confused with it: DL-Methionine. This substance is used to ensure the essential needs for sulfur amino acids is met (they are required in humans too).

According to a website I found (http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=menadione) the official word from Natural Balance is that they will no longer be adding any kind of Vitamin K supplement to their foods (see the February update). And this was dated Feb/06, so even if the packaging says it has it in there, the food doesn't have it. This is good, as I'm switching my cat to it (and have a bag to switch my dog to as a trial). And Petcurean says they removed it but it will take 6 months from May to get through their stock.

So the conclusion I'm drawing is that I shouldn't get Petcurean food until at least November of this year.

Thanks for the info!!

Melissa

Edited to add... while I was researching this and posting this response, it appears that there's been some confusion regarding the "safe to use" Petcurean date. I interpreted the post on dogfoodproject as meaning they had pre-made food to go through that would take 6 months, not the empty pre-printed bags. Am curious to see which way it is.

Prin
August 2nd, 2006, 06:03 PM
DL methionine is an amino acid, and is completely different from menadione.
I don't know about that stability thing as the only real benefit of K3 from the manufacturer's stand point is that it's a very stable molecule.

Here, this bit from your fda link:
Because of the expense, chemical instability and lipophilic characteristics of phylloquinone and the menaquinones and the short half-life of menadione in animal feeds, various water soluble forms of menadione are the predominant sources used in animal feed supplementation. Water-soluble forms with improved handling and stability characteristics include MSB, MSBC and MPB. These are the predominate synthetic vitamin K forms used in animal feeds (Madsen and Atwater, 1977).
Menadione is just the back bone. They add the "sodium bisulfate" part to keep the menadione stable, which means it's not likely to degrade in sunlight or UV light and it is still in the food when you feed it.

dogmelissa
August 2nd, 2006, 06:15 PM
I know about the Methionine, I simply posted it as a note that it's name is similar enough that some may confuse the two.

I may have incorrectly interpreted that part of the article. Regardless, Petcurean has taken menadione out of it's food, and the food I'm feeding now doesn't contain it. So it doesn't really matter.

Melissa

Prin
August 2nd, 2006, 06:20 PM
Actually the point was it might not all be out of the food yet. It's best to either contact them and ask what expiry dates to look for or wait the 6 months.

dogmelissa
August 2nd, 2006, 06:27 PM
As Rainbow pointed out, there was some confusion about which one it was and it is being looked into. Until I know for sure, though, I'm not buying it until November, given that the date of them saying it is no longer in their foods was May and 6 months after that is November. Whether it's stock food or stock empty bags, I'll wait for confirmation.

Melissa

rainbow
August 3rd, 2006, 05:15 PM
Confirmation is here. :D

I just received this email from Michele at Petcurean:

Hello

Thank-you for your enquiry. Menadione HAS been removed from the food, but we have remaining empty bags to use up. Hope this clarifies!

Thank-you
Michele




--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2006 2:55 PM
To: Michele Dixon
Subject: Re: Menadione



Hello Michele

Does the statement you issued to Mordanna's website www.dogfoodproject.com (a copy of your statement is included below) mean that you:

1. Have already removed menadione from your ingredients and it will take six months for you to use up your supply of empty bags.

OR

2. Menadione will be removed in six months (from May 19/06 update) after your current supply of food is used up?


copy of statement:



It's been a while!
Admin | May 19, 2006 12:14 pm

Dear DFP readers,

I know it's been a while since the last update, but I've been so busy recently that I've had little time to spare.

I'm still around and doing my research though, new foods are constantly hitting the market and old formulas change, so it's sometimes a little difficult keeping the database current. Many updates will be forthcoming soon!

For today I'd like to leave you with some more good news about the removal of Menadione from pet foods:

Petcurean

Thank-you for your enquiry. This ingredient has been removed from our food, and will take about 6 months for us to be through the bags we have in stock.

dogmelissa
August 3rd, 2006, 05:53 PM
Horray! So it's safe to buy Petcurean now, even if the bag says it still has Vitamin K or Methione in it. Good to know!!

Thanks for the extra effort rainbow!

Melissa

rainbow
August 3rd, 2006, 06:13 PM
Dogmelissa, you are welcome. I'm actually thinking of switching to it myself because it's Canadian. :ca: :thumbs up

By the way, methione is not the same as menadione.

dogmelissa
August 3rd, 2006, 06:37 PM
Dogmelissa, you are welcome. I'm actually thinking of switching to it myself because it's Canadian. :ca: :thumbs up

By the way, methione is not the same as menadione.

That was my primary reason for thinking about switching to it. Gotta support the Canadians!! :ca:

I'll be honest, I didn't pay attention to what I typed... brain just does not want to remember the word that I'm supposed to be avoiding and I didn't bother to look back through the posts for the correct word. Thanks for pointing out my mistake, and I'll be sure to avoid Menadione (I checked this time!).

Melissa