July 31st, 2006, 10:42 AM
My parents want to kill my cat...
His name is Ivan. He's a siamese cross - he's solid chocolate brown with a white tip on his tail, huge green eyes. He's very strong and healthy - physically, that is.
He has a history of aggressive behaviour. If he is outside, I don't know what it is, but sometimes (not frequently - only about once a year this happened) he would just attack with no apparent reason. Maybe, something scares him or he hears something... I don't know what it is. For a while we thought he couldn't see very well, or maybe hear... but a couple of days ago he bit my dad on the arm pretty badly, but they are sure he saw and heard my father (he was actually petting him at the time). It was at dusk though, so maybe when my dad put his other hand down to touch him, he just didn't expect it.... This has been going on for the past five years (he's six now).
When he was six months old he fell from the roof (my dad left a window open at night on the third floor, when he was working on the roof). He had a dislocated him (that's all the vet told us, they didn't not say anything about the possibility that he might have hit his head). They had him overnight, put him under general anesthetic to put the hip back in. He had to stay in a cage for a couple of weeks to limit his movement. Before the overnight stay at the vet, he was a little timid and a little shy. But THEY DID SOMETHING to him, I just know it. He did not come back the same cat he was. And it wasn't from the fall, because he spent five days recovering at home, prior to the vet. He was never the same after the vet! and it was a reputable clinic! They did make us pay about $800 for everything, so we thought they did a good job since they charged so much for an overnight stay, an x-ray and the anesthetic + procedure (which was non-surgical, by the way... it was chiropractic).
By the way, the female that my parents have, that Ivan just adores, sometimes (including yesterday) would actually chase and attack him with no apparent reason. She's never been aggressive towards people, not even when she was little and played with hour hands, she never left even a tiny scratch. She would chase him, make him hide under the covers somewhere. and no one could tell what was going on and why she was so aggressive towards him... a couple of days later she'd be sleeping with him, grooming him, etc.
And now that he bit again, my parents want to kill him! I spoke to a vet and she said that neutering him has a good chance of working, but my parents are not willing (!) to take the chance to give him one.
And I can't take him to live with me. He would not take it well.... the stress of the surgery + coming back to a completely new space with another animal ... it will be too much for him. and my parents are not willing, they are not WILLING, to give him a chance.... because no one can give them guarantees...:yell: :mad:
I don't know what to do.... has anyone been or heard of such situations?! Is there anything besides euthanasia for him? Can he be rehabilitated? The shelter said they wouldn't take a cat that old in, especially with such history.... are there charitable organizations that might take on a rehabilitation effort?! ANYONE at all?!
I know I'm clinging on to hope that doesn't exist, but I love him so much and I just don't want them to simply kill him! it's not fair! He deserves another chance!!!:sad:
July 31st, 2006, 11:39 AM
If only, if ONLY, when he was sedated for his hip precedure, they had neutered him - a procedure which takes 5 minutes tops - they would have save him from years of aggression. Tell your parents that neutering DOES settle males down, even when it is done this late, as well as protecting them from cancer. After spending so much money on him, you'd think they'd be willing to go the extra mile.
Maybe some people who have had similar experiences will post here, then you could print the information and show it to your parents.
No rescue will take him unless he is neutered, and if he bites a shelter will probably declare him unadoptable and put him down.
What if you offered to pay for the procedure yourself? It's not expensive - 50 or 60 dollars (here in Montreal), sometimes less if you look around for a vet who charges less. Other vets will take monthly payments. If he hasn't been vaccinated, that would have to be done first, then there is usually a ten-day wait before neutering.
He is aggressive when he is outside because he is an intact cat who smells other males in the area and is looking to defend his territory. When they are neutered, all that anxiety goes away, he's 'out of the game'. It might take a little longer to see the effects, since he has displayed this behaviour for several years, but it WILL happen. He will be a happier kitty, guaranteed.
The behaviour of the female is probably also because of his intact status. Maybe he tried to mount her? Wouldn't matter if she was spayed (I'm assuming she is, or you'd have kittens by now).
If your parents insist on euthanizing him, your only choice is to have him neutered yourself and take him home with you, at least temporarily. If you have a spare room, keep him separated from other cats for at least two weeks because it takes awhile for the testosterone (male hormone) levels to subside. You could also try some rescue remedy, a herbal medicine which sometimes helps to calm them down.
You are the knowledgable one. Show your parents they are wrong!!
July 31st, 2006, 01:36 PM
Hello there! I'm sorry to hear about your situation. I do not have a cat but I was in the same situation with my dog as far as aggression goes. He is 5 years old, still in tact and a little on the agg side. My partner and I didn't have "neutering money" as it is around $180 here in the states (including blood tests and anesthesia). So, we were told to contact a humaine society or rescue group and inquire about a "neutering certificate". We paid $50 for the certificate, which went to the rescue group, and we got our dog taken care of for that amount, but you have to find a vet who participates in that kind of program.
You're going to have to do what you gotta do to save your baby. Either educate your parents or take him home with you, but no matter what, he needs neutered. Good luck and keep us updated! :fingerscr
July 31st, 2006, 02:59 PM
If you are letting your cat outside he should be neutered anyway, there are so many diseases he could get trying to mate with other cats or getting in fights with other cats and animals it's ridiculous.
Also, being intact WILL cause more agressive behavior, towards humans and other animals, because your cat could smell a scent on someone (be it another male cat, or an upsetting smell from something else) that would cause him to attack. When a male cat smells something that he feels threatens his territory he might attack with no regard to who or what he's attacking.
As far as your female cat fighting with him, the male hormones in a cat can solicit attack from fixed AND unfixed animals of any gender. She could also be trying to establish dominance over him in her home (this is her territory and she wants him to know that), hence her attacking him and then cleaning him afterwards when the dispute has been settled. If it's a dominance thing, neutering him will still help because without the strong male scent she won't feel as threatened.
Either way, I don't think killing a cat for normal cat behavior is warranted. You should explain to your father that cats act like cats, and if he doesn't understand that he probably shouldn't have gotten any.
Sorry for the somewhat angry response, but when people talk about killing animals for being animals it upsets me.
Regardless, I hope this information was somewhat helpful.
July 31st, 2006, 05:59 PM
I say you move out :evil:
July 31st, 2006, 11:11 PM
If you love this cat so much and YOU are not willing to take him to live with you, what kind of a chance do you think he has? Brought to a shelter he will be put down. There are thousands of beautiful, sweet cats and kittens put down every day across Canada and the US simply because nobody wants them. How do you expect an unaltered, agressive cat to stand a chance?
Plain and simple, have him neutered tomorrow and bring him to live with you, period!!
August 1st, 2006, 10:22 AM
I cannot bring him to live with me. I live in a small apartment (whereas now he is in a large three-storey house) with another animal, whom he is not familiar with. It would only make things worse with his aggression.... Given his personality (which I know very well!), he would only be in torment and distress; I don't want to torture him.
My parents spoke to a number of vets yesterday (they are not evil, and they do care), and neutering will not help in his particular situation. He's too old now for a radical personality change. And, according to the vets (given the history, as detailed as possible), it is not a hormonal issue. What it looks like is some kind of brain damage (probably from the fall; possibly from birth). He's always been talkative and we thought it was normal, but the last few years it has been getting worse and worse.... he doesn't let anyone sleep, he sreams through the night... And he's completely healthy physically (from the neck down that is). Given that my parents have had intact males before (and they were siamese males... talk about being talkative!), they know his behaviour is not normal; none of their previous animals ever behaved this way, never.
He's being pts.... and there's nothing I can do about it :yell: ; no one can really. And I can't hate my parents, because I know they care, very much.... But there is no vet that could perform a miracle:sad: .
All I can be now is grateful to God for Ivan. I hope that God will give him peace:pray: , which he didn't have in life. No matter what, I will always love him and never forget him.... I hope he knows this....
I can't stop crying and yet I have to let him go.... I have to let him :rip: He will live forever in my heart, and in the little hearts of his babies (which all have good homes from the age of 8-10 weeks).
August 1st, 2006, 10:24 AM
You posted a while ago and said these two cats at your parents had a litter and you were taking a baby. Why would you get a new kitten and leave your "old" cat (without neutering him) with your parents? That doesn't sound very responsible to me. Honestly, I think you have no one to blame but yourself. If it is your cat, it is your responsibility, and you shouldn't have left him at your parents in the first place and taken a kitten. A cat with a mental issue shouldn't have been used to make new litters in the first place.
August 1st, 2006, 10:53 AM
Think what you will, of course. But, I don't think anyone would act differently in my situation.
First of all, I could not (and cannot) dictate to my parents what to do; neuter him or not neuter him, it's their decision. I left Ivan with my parents, at his home! You make it sound like I abandoned him! It's not true at all! I left him at home, where he was most comfortable. I have not lived in the house for over four years now. What was I supposed to do, when I moved out? Take him to live to a university residence? Or to an apartment that was smaller than an average kitchen? And when I got married, I could not make my husband live with a cat he was so uncomfortable with. And, again!, knowing Ivan, he would not take a move well. We took his baby because we could not take him! :(
The best for him would be to not have any mental problems and to stay at home in which he grew up and where he was loved! I cannot change his mental condition and I couldn't take him from his home, when he was already unstable. Taking him to my apartment right now, you think would be the right decision?! Taking a mentally ill adult cat with unstable temperament, neutering him (going through the whole hospital thing, which he has terrifying childhood memories of), and then bringing him to a completely unfamiliar environment (even if there was no other animal), with people that he didn't see everyday, with different smells, with different sounds(nevermind the fact that I live in another city)... would this be really better for him?!
I had a long and very painful conversation with my parents yesterday.... and I was wrong to hate or blame them... I am very sorry for that. I was very emotional and I didn't consider everything, before making my judgement of them.
They care very much and he is their cat, as much as he is mine (if not more... the last four years I've seen him at most once a week). And, no! I will never completely understand their decision, nor will I ever forget this pain... But, given what the vets said yesterday, there is nothing anyone can do other than make sure that he goes peacefully.
I reall hope you will try to understand the situation before you make a judgement.
August 1st, 2006, 11:06 AM
My parents did not neuter him primarily because of what happened the last time he was at the hospital for a procedure.... and, if you read my post carefully, you would see that we thought that the fact that he talks so much was normal (just personality). But the vets said that is was not (which was yesterday). If my parents ever thought that there was a problem, they would bring him to a doctor! They have had cats for years (as long as I can remember), they have A LOT of experience, they know when something is physically wrong.
As far as breeding him goes, his babies were never like him, none of them. A year and even two later, none of them behaved even close to how he did when he was their age (and by this time he's already bitten, he's already become timid and wouldn't let anyone handle him.... his babies are huge cuddle bugs, they are VERY-VERY different from him. That's why I think it's an acquired thing).
In any case, I am the one responsible for what happened.... and it will haunt me forever! I am the one, and only one, to blame for his death!
August 1st, 2006, 11:40 AM
listen buddy, you post asking for help with advice on how to get your parents to not kill your cat and when we suggest things you get defensive on how you can't tell your parents what to do.
If you cared enough you'd tell them! there's many people out there who live with "special needs animals" who have "psychological problems" due to abuse and past experiences.
It seems to me that you're not willing to do anything for him.
" I could not make my husband live with a cat he was so uncomfortable with"
that's personal opinion but to me, if a future potential husband didn't want to live with my cats/dogs he'd have to deal with it or leave. They were here before him :rolleyes: lol
anyway....nothing left to say as the deed's done :sad: :rip:
August 1st, 2006, 12:06 PM
I am not defensive, not at all. I am very grateful for all your suggestions. And for the suggestions of the many people I spoke to during these past few days.
You can't say that I didn't try! I did try very hard to convince my parents not to kill him! And it is a very painful decision for them! But it is their decision...I did EVERYTHING I could to change it! They do not want to transfer the responsiblity for Ivan to anyone else, or endanger anyone else out there (who knows what Ivan could do in the future and who and how seriously he might hurt next) .
And none of our colleagues, friends, our friends' friends or family members can take Ivan, especially given his history. (Mine and my husband's family members are half world away, btw). The people at the shelters and rescues (there were many) said they wouldn't take an animal with that degree agression (all of us had to go to an emergency room after his attacks)
As far as my husband is concerned, what you are saying does not really apply to the situation. I was not living with Ivan for over three years, when I moved in with my husband. Ivan had a home and a loving family! He was not 'here before him'. NO ONE ever expected it to come to this! Ivan is a frustrated, angry cat with bad personality, but NO ONE ever thought it would become this bad, so it would come to putting him down.
No one can predict the future, and I could not marry a man, get an apartment or find a job that would be best suit for Ivan, who does not even live with me! Given the situation that we are in right now, and given that there is no vet who would be able to cure Ivan, and no person or shelter that would take him, there is nothing I, or my parents or husband, can do.... and it is horrible to realize, and it is sad, and painful, and frustrating that there's no cure....
August 1st, 2006, 12:42 PM
Alenka, I'm sorry for this decision, as it had to be a tough one for all of you. I do hope you're planning to spay/neuter your kitty, as it's slightly disconcerting that Ivan had mental/behavioural issues that could have been passed on to the next generation, even if they aren't presenting just yet. Good luck with your little one :pawprint:
August 1st, 2006, 12:45 PM
I'm no cat expert, but the fact that no one was even willing to try neutering to save this cat is very sad. Why not give it a chance if there is even the remote possiblility that it could work...especially for so little $$$.
August 1st, 2006, 12:52 PM
Thank you for trying to understand! I appreciate very much it! I feel really horrible for what is happening... and I am the one responsible for his death! I am the one to blame! and I will have to answer for it, when I join Ivan.....
But all I can do now is make sure his baby is taken care of the best way possible.... she has her spay appointment for September (she will be six months then). The mom-cat is getting spayed (which I am paying for, so not to budern my parents with the costs) as soon as she gets her update on the annual shots (they come due shortly)... I don't want the hormones making missing Ivan even worse for her....
August 1st, 2006, 12:55 PM
we3beagles, according to the vets (there were four), it is definitely not a hormonal issue.
The one that told me it could work, did not have all of the details. Once she did, she thought it might even make the situation worse, as it doesn't look like a hormonal issue, but rather a mental disorder that could be made much worse by brining bad childhood memories back...
August 1st, 2006, 01:34 PM
if you read my post carefully, you would see that we thought that the fact that he talks so much was normal (just personality).
I did read carefully. here's what you said:
"Given that my parents have had intact males before (and they were siamese males... talk about being talkative!), they know his behaviour is not normal; none of their previous animals ever behaved this way, never. "
Basically, your parents have been bybs... with an unstable male. Think of how many kittens are out there now from these actions. You can't know for certain that these kittens won't turn out aggressive in the future. No responsible breeder would allow a cat like that to remain fertile. You started this post by saying they were killing YOUR cat, now you're saying it's really their cat. If it's their cat, so be it- they take responsibility, they make the decision. As an adult living away from home, it's not your call. A responsible adult would take responsibility for their pet and create a living space that was suitable above all else... in effect, by leaving the cat there, you did abandon it.
It's hard to lose a pet, I know. But maybe this can be a lesson learned about irresponsible breeding and the importance of spay/neutering, at least for others if not for your family. I'm glad you're going to have your kitten spayed and the momma.
I do speak from a little experience. As a kid, we had barn kittens all the time. Our dogs also had a couple litters of puppies. My parents believed that this was natural and females needed litters to 'settle'. My sister and I, at 16 and 14, paid to have them all s/n once we had jobs. I didn't take them with me when I left, but I did take responsibility before I moved out. I understand that it is hard on the animal to move them out of their home, but I don't understand how it is harder than dying. If my parents were ever unable to keep any of the farm animals (a dog, a cat and a horse now), I'd be making arrangements to do it myself. But that's just me.
August 1st, 2006, 02:13 PM
This thread has run its course and will now be closed. Please do not reopen closed issues.