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surgically reshaping sheltie's ears??

lezzpezz
July 22nd, 2006, 02:58 PM
Met a very cute little sheltie pup a few weeks back and was curious about the blob of whatever that was stuck on the pup's crown of the head...so I asked the owner. He said that the ears were "done" and it was some glue? to hold the ears in place so they sit in the desired position while the surgery heals:eek:

I said, "WHAT SURGERY!!!", as I have never heard of a required ear surgery for shelties.....apparently, it's a surgery to induce a fold or curl to the ears so they don't prick straight up! What the &*^$#!!!

You mean to tell me that because of the human's desire to have a cuter looking dog, they will surgically mutilate a dogs' ears to make the human happy??? Oh come on.....I missed the reading material on THAT crazy procedure....:mad:

LavenderRott
July 22nd, 2006, 03:09 PM
There are several breeds of dogs that have their ears cropped, so yes, people will surgically "mutilate" a dog's ears so that it meets the breed standard.

But shelties aren't on that list and getting the tips to fall correctly isn't usually a surgical procedure. Usually it is a matter of weighting down the tip and taping it for some period of time.

So, I don't know what the heck you saw. :eek:

kaytris
July 22nd, 2006, 03:24 PM
I suppose it would be theoretically possible for someone to find a vet with little ethical sense to snip the cartilage in a sheltie's ears to get them to fold properly, but it's not very likely.

The owner was either misinformed or you misunderstood, and the ears are just glued.

lezzpezz
July 22nd, 2006, 03:27 PM
I was just so shocked! He DID say surgery and there was a brown "disc" in the middle of each ear....perhaps glued, and that's all he meant...I just took it litterally??

Anything's possible, especially after seeing a botched job on a great dane...what a mess....bandages, xray film and buttons.....gross.....

we3beagles
July 22nd, 2006, 03:44 PM
I walk by some little dogs behind a fence everyday. They bark like crazy, but very little sound comes out. I said to the owner, "Wow, that is the strangest bark I have ever heard". She said, "Oh we had the voicebox removed". I kept walking in absolute anger and horror. If you don't like barking, DON'T GET A DOG. What is wrong with people. I think a natural dog is much happier and more beautiful than any kind of surgury or shaping could produce. I think it is pretty painful for the dogs too. What is the point of mutilating your dog?

LibbyP
July 22nd, 2006, 04:33 PM
My parents have two different sets of friends that have de-barked their dogs, one being a beagle and the other a schnauzer, they still make a sound, just muffled. WRONG, JUST WRONG I'm all for natural ears here:thumbs up, Oh ya rainbow natural bark as well, that was just a given.

rainbow
July 22nd, 2006, 04:51 PM
Well, I'm all for natural ears and natural barking. :p

Golden Girls
July 22nd, 2006, 05:28 PM
There's a guy in Angrignon Park I meet pretty much everyday and it appears he cut his own Rottie's tail ... it's horrible. What people do it's unbelievable including de-vocalizing and ear cropping.

RVT092481
July 22nd, 2006, 06:51 PM
The vet that I used to work for did that ear "surgery". It was on a Collie though. She was completely awake. They fold the top down to have the desired "flop" then they either put a few stitches in to hold it or use suture glue on the inside.
Needless to say I no longer work there...I quit...

mastifflover
July 22nd, 2006, 07:05 PM
I am for leaving your dog just the way it came into the world okay minus reproductive systems.

Puppyluv
July 22nd, 2006, 07:19 PM
on the voice box issue. I met a dog trainer in Calgary some time ago. She had a dog that never stopped barking, and there were so many complaints that the city gave her an ultimatum: snip the vocal cords or put him to sleep. She opted for the former. I completely understand why she did it, but it still made me want to cry whenever I heard him gasp, which was his attempt to bark.

(sorry for the threadjack:o )

jiorji
July 22nd, 2006, 10:54 PM
wow...is that really necessary?? I mean...it's only ears..waste of money and pain for nothing if you ask me.

And that who devocalization surgery I find a bit too much as well. Imagine not being able to speak...:sad:

we3beagles
July 22nd, 2006, 11:37 PM
ya know what puppylove, in that case it may have been an act of mercy as opposed to putting the dog down, but I've never heard of a dog that can't be trained not to bark incessantly. Maybe I just have never come across it before? I can see how that would be their only option.:sad:

chico2
July 23rd, 2006, 07:34 AM
On my daily walk with Bailey,we pass by a house,where an old Beagle is kept in the fenced in front-yard,the first think you see is a sign on the fence"Don't feed the dog"!!:confused:
I believe she is outdoors 24/7 and her attempt at barking is pathetic,more like a cough than a bark,maybe she too has been debarked:sad: it's really sad to see this lonely dog.
I just do not understand some people..

Inverness
July 23rd, 2006, 08:37 AM
The vet that I used to work for did that ear "surgery". It was on a Collie though. She was completely awake. They fold the top down to have the desired "flop" then they either put a few stitches in to hold it or use suture glue on the inside.
Needless to say I no longer work there...I quit...

Let's not lose our perspective here. Using suture glue to hold a dog's ears down is very far from being cruel...

technodoll
July 23rd, 2006, 10:38 AM
but I've never heard of a dog that can't be trained not to bark incessantly.

many breeders who own multiple-dog kennels (and i'm talking reputable, ethical breeders here, not puppy mills or BYBs!) resort to de-barking some or all of their dogs, in order to be able to keep them. you'd be amazed at how far loud barking goes, even in the countryside. Put a bunch of dogs in their outside runs and they spurn each other on, one barks and the whole lot jumps in, can be at 3am too :eek: deafening. my breeder does not debark her dogs and the noise can be terrible at times... one sees a rabbit streak by and off they go.

anyways... i'm personally against debarking (what about citronella collars and such?) but i have no problem with ear-cropping for show or working dogs, as long as it's done responsibly and for the right reasons. uncropped dobermans, no matter how beautiful the speciman, have a very hard time winning in the ring (sad but that is the reality) and using an uncropped argentine dogo to hunt wild boar is asking for the dog's ears to get ripped off... :(

LM1313
July 26th, 2006, 03:57 PM
Is the gluing done for all sheltie puppies or is it just done on some where the ears aren't folding "right"? If it's done on all of them, then why? I mean, how did the practice get started?

kaytris
July 26th, 2006, 04:46 PM
I can only speak of the practice with collies, but I assume its the same with shelties... the glueing is only done if the ears aren't folding 'correctly' according to the breed standard. Not every puppy owner bothers with that, enjoying their puppy for what it is, 'incorrect' ears and all.

Lola Bologna
August 2nd, 2006, 01:33 PM
Hi:

From what I have read and understand about Shelties and their ears is that the breed is supposed to have naturally "tipped" ears. However, some ears will stand straight up. I believe tipped ears is one of the standards listed for a shetland sheep dog to be shown.

I have an 8-month old sheltie and her ears stand straight up. She gets a lot of attention and most sheltie fanciers have mentioned that I should bend/brace the ears. (There are many methods of doing this.) Apparently, the ears are naturally tipped so to avoid the rain getting into their ears as they are a herding dog and work in fields.


Lola

:ca:

Shelties3
August 30th, 2006, 12:16 AM
I have three shelies, and I was determined to have 1 that had tipped ears. The first sheltie had his weighted. The breeder told me, since he was an only dog to just put gum on the tips to weight them. That worked until the neighbors dog chewed the gum through the fence, and we were cutting gum out of our sheltie's hair! The second sheltie, her ears were coming along great. So when the moleskin started falling off, I left it off. That is until 5 days later they started un-tipping! I tried with the moleskin a few times, and then just gave up. I was determined to have a sheltie with tipped ears. So for the third one, the breeder told us that rubbing liquid glycerin on the inside of her ears would help soften the cartilege and help them tip. I put on the glycerine, and poof, not even a day later, they were standing up straight. Her sister has beautiful, naturally tipped ears, and if I had just left mine alone, she would have as well.

It is one of the breed standards that a sheltie MUST have slightly tipped ears. It is a HUGE fault if they don't. Actually, I think they are asked to leave the ring if they are not tipped. So, I have 3, undersized shelties with prick ears. But, they are damned cute because of it!

Lola Bologna
September 10th, 2006, 05:37 PM
I do not blame you Shelties3 for not making a big deal about your shelties' ears. They are as cute without the tipped ears. My breeder explained it was a very long process from 6-8 weeks of age up to 1 year.

My vet also was quite against tipping the ears. There have been cases where it has caused problems with the cartilage and eventually cancer.

Your shelties must be adorable. I love the undersized sheltie and it was exactly what I was looking for. Sally, I would think, is not on the small side, but she is not on the large side either--mediocre. She is funny. We call her the bull in the china shop--coming through. No dainty attributes about Sally. She is a sable, my favourite. Shelties are so smart.

Lola

:ca:

LL1
September 10th, 2006, 05:43 PM
It is a horrible practice and I wish it was banned

RDM
September 15th, 2006, 12:35 AM
Apparently, the ears are naturally tipped so to avoid the rain getting into their ears as they are a herding dog and work in fields.

Ha ha! I love the excuses conformation people come up with for the things they do to manipulate their dogs' physicality.

Border collies are herding dogs (with a disproportionately higher number of actual working dogs in the breed, compared to many other herding breeds) and they have managed to work without getting their bits snipped, tipped, glued, cropped, docked, hacked off or otherwise mutilated.

Piper's ears stand up and she doesn't get any more rain in her ears than the other three. That's so silly.

I bet your sheltie is as cute as a button with her doG-Given ears!

RDM