Pets.ca - Pet forum for dogs cats and humans 

-->

OMG!! She's a Pit Bull! A long rant!

Copper'sMom
July 21st, 2006, 12:44 AM
I had to move back home with my mom and her hubby - fine. The dogs are with me here - and this was fine too until today! My mom babysits my brother's children a few hours /day. My brother and his wife think Zoe should wear a muzzle around the kids because she is a Pit Bull! Well what the fRiG is that????:mad: They don't care about Copper who is twice the size of Zoe.:confused: I confronted my older brother on it today and we had a good fight that turned a little physical. I will not take crap from anyone when it comes to my dogs. My adrenalin was flowing today like never before.
My brother has a very hot temper to begin with and won't listen to a word anyone has to tell him about anything.
So I asked why she should be muzzled and all he could yell in my face was "She's a bloody Pit Bull. How many other dogs can take a bite out of a child and leave them with stitches from head to toe? She's a Pit Bull!!!!!" So because MY dog is a PIT BULL, that automatically means she will attack the children because that's just what Pit Bulls do(according to the media)! grrrrrrrrrrr

My family is so very uneducated when it comes to dogs and cats in general. Geeze, my brother has a female Rottie UNSPAYED for crying out loud! I have preached at him until i was blue in the face and it was nothing but wasted breath out of my mouth.

So one incident that happened probably didn't help matters any was this:
When i was house sitting for my mom 1 week ago, my other brother came over to check the pool filter blah blah blah. Well i had no idea he was even here, he just went thru the side fence into the backyard. THEN, he came in the back patio door. Well the dogs and I all jumped out of our skin when the patio door opened as i had no idea he was here. So he started to walk in the door and the dogs ran for the door and Zoe was growling at him with her hair standing up. I grabbed her collar, said "No" and she was fine. All the while, my brother stared at her in the eyes and didn't say a word and tried to back out of the door and close it.
No one understands that how Zoe acted was not totally unnatural for a dog. She didn't lunge for him and she wasn't out of control. I don't know who was scared more, Zoe or my brother!
So i tried to explain to him why she acted the way she did - she was startled very suddenly by a 6 ft 3 200lb man coming in the back door and was either scared poopless or she was being protective. I would say she was more fearful than protective. But this incident does not make her a man eating dog!

So now there is absolute chaos in my family because of my little girl and most of the family will not listen to what I have to say. They just believe what they hear in the news:sad: I understand their concern for their kids, but I don't even let Zoe out of her crate without being on a leash in my hands when the kids are there only because she can be very hyper at times. And it really amazes me at how calm and well behaved she is when the kids want to pet her. She actually sits still!!! Normally her butt will be wiggling all over the place, but she sits so good for the kids.

Copper'sMom
July 21st, 2006, 12:52 AM
They just don't understand:sad: and it hurts me in the worst way as these dogs are my whole life. They are my children, they are my everything. To my brother, a dog is a dog who belongs in a small pen, unspayed(because it costs too much money), eating Ol' Roy Dog food. What kind of life is that??

ok, i'm done for now. Thanks to all who may read this and I'm sure most of you will understand. Please leave me feed back on both points of view on this matter! I may have lost a brother or two, but I still have my dogs.:love:

DRN
July 21st, 2006, 01:22 AM
Copper's Mom,

I can tell you are hurt by what happened and I'm sorry. These pups are your children and your family doesn't see that you love them as much as they love their children. Or perhaps they do know how you feel but they don't care. On top of that, you have the "moving back home" issue that further complicates things. As a parent, a dog lover, and someone not in the middle of your emotional turmoil, permit me to offer some friendly and sincere words of advice:

1. Your family has accepted you back home so you know they love you. However, it's hard to make the change from the family dynamics of childhood to something that works for adults. Give them and yourself credit for trying and don't get emotionally upset or injured at everything that happens.

2. You love dogs. Your brother(s) have children. As much as your dogs mean to you, they are not children. You have to accept that your dogs will be a little lower in the pecking order than the family children will be. If that means taking extra precautions to avoid an inadvertent bite or accident, so be it. As upset as this has made you, how much worse would it be if something did happen and your family tried to have your dogs euthanized or impounded? Don't open the door to even greater heartache. Accept that your family doesn't love your dogs as much as you do. Frankly, if you handle this well, you may find that your family will grow more fond of your dogs once they feel safer around them. You might also have the joy of knowing you helped your nieces and nephews become dog lovers.

3. Could it be that the whole "moving back home" thing and the circumstances of that are making everyone more nervous and uptight? Showing good humor will help smooth out the rough edges of this situation - not only for the humans involved but also for your dogs' peace of mind. We know that dogs pick up on our feelings and react accordingly. Help yourself and your dogs by making peace with your family.

Good luck.

Prin
July 21st, 2006, 01:41 AM
Aww... Tensions always rise when there are major life changes for everybody. You just have to take it as motivation to get back on your feet quickly, I guess.

Good luck and I hope it smoothes out soon.

Mahealani770
July 21st, 2006, 08:08 AM
Speaking of drama...have you left your man yet? Good luck with that if you haven't! :fingerscr

phoenix
July 21st, 2006, 08:57 AM
I second DRN. Exactly what I was going to say... the children come first, your dogs aren't completely used to them being around all the time, the kids aren't necessarily great with dogs... I'd take every precaution because how would you feel if something actually did happen? You are in someone else's home... how does your mom feel about it? I think muzzling is a bit excessive, but keeping the kids and dogs totally separate unless you're right there is best. (you said you keep her crated or on a leash... how did she get over to the door to growl at your brother? were the kids not there?)

I don't understand why no one was worried about Copper, only Zoe. That makes no sense! Are they just used to him because he's been around longer?? Or is it because she growled that one time????

LibbyP
July 21st, 2006, 09:12 AM
I have to agree with DRN's points to a three, I know it would be VERY upsetting to you if the kids or your furkids got hurt at all by accident. You said the niece and nephew are there at your mom's house for acouple hours a day, could you not greet them on leash with a muzzle to make your brother and his wife happy, have the kids pet her with it on and have Zoe wear it for maybe a half hour then take it off, have the kids pet her again, maybe toss the ball to her whatever(so she doesn't think it's the kids making her wear the muzzle) and then put her someplace quiet for the rest of the time they are there, do the same thing when it's pick-up time as well, if you don't want to put her in a crate why not use a babygate to be a kid free zone, I think with time and understanding from all sides your family will see that Zoe isn't out to kill them, hope this helps alittle, we have our :fingerscr and :pawprint: crossed for you, plus be thankful that your mom let the dogs come with you, alot wouldn't regardless of the breed

Writing4Fun
July 21st, 2006, 11:02 AM
So I asked why she should be muzzled and all he could yell in my face was "She's a bloody Pit Bull. How many other dogs can take a bite out of a child and leave them with stitches from head to toe? She's a Pit Bull!!!!!"
I do agree with what DRN said, but I had to respond to this point. The answer to your brother's question would be every other breed of dog out there. Even a Poodle could seriously disfigure a young child given half the chance. A Lab would be more likely to do so than any other breed out there. Good luck with your situation.

phoenix
July 21st, 2006, 11:24 AM
A Lab would be more likely to do so than any other breed out there. .

Boy am I ever tired of this argument. Can you back up your statement please? I'm not sure what you think to gain by slamming one breed while trying to protect another.

The Center for Disease Control (US) provides the following list of 'dogs most likely to bite':
Pit bulls, Rottweilers, German shepherds, Huskies, Alaskan malamutes, Doberman pinschers, Chows, Great Danes, Saint Bernards, Akitas

I think a lot of factors (type of owner, bad breeding/popularity, training etc) come into play when examining the stats... If labs (do you mean labrador retrievers, or retrievers in general...) make it onto the list, I think you really have to consider the % of labs in the general dog population.

Here's a study on fatalities: http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/duip/dogbreeds.pdf (even though this is a bit older study). Note that the authors conclude that nonbreed legislation would be more appropriate...

Sorry to hijack, but it really bugs me to see labs and poodles and such being brought into these arguments all the time.

LibbyP
July 21st, 2006, 11:48 AM
(IMO) I don't think W4F was trying to slam another breed, I think it she was trying to make a point that ALL dogs regardless of size have the capability of doing some damage, I see from the list you typed that those breeds are all lrg/xtr lrg breeds is there NO small breeds that bite, I agree that lrg breeds will do far greater damage but working in a shelter for many years, trust me when I say little dogs bite and do damage as well. I am not picking sides or trying to start a fight (JMHO) sorry to chage the topic

jawert1
July 21st, 2006, 11:51 AM
A pack of 6 chihuahas put a police officer in CA in the hospital not that long ago, the lady in France with the face transplant was attacked by a Lab mix, but ANY dog can be bite-prone. That Labs are a very popular breed, you have the law of averages at work that given they comprise a large portion of the dog population these days, there will be more instances (even tho most are ignored by the media). Copper's Mom, I'm really sorry that ignorance about a breed is prevailing in your situation, but what worries me more is that your brother treats dogs in a specific manner very different from your own methods. How do his kids behave around dogs with this attitude being taught in home? Can you trust that they would respect her? DNR is right, this whole situation is causing everyone stress, whether it's readily apparent or not. Dogs do as they do, my 2 wouldn't have reacted any differently to someone quietly coming through the door when they weren't expecting it either, though that sort of anecdote isn't entirely helpful, I know :( Be the hero to all, educate quietly and firmly where you can, protect YOUR babies first and foremost (even if that means muzzling Zoe until it's evident the kids can behave around her and she's used to them) and let everyone else learn by your example. You're a strong chica, I know you can handle this challenge too, even after all you've gone through :grouphug:

glasslass
July 21st, 2006, 11:59 AM
I'm seeing a bit of sibling rivalry and aggression on your brother's part. Maybe he's resenting that you're back in "his" parent's home. He can't acknowlege feeling a tad jealous so he targets Zoe. Coming into the house unannounced when he knows you're there with the dogs is just plain stupidity and, again, aggression, ie "why should I have to knock or be considerate going into "my" parent's home?" The others' suggestions are good, but you've already stated that you already are keeping Zoe leashed or crated when the kids are there. You show you are trying to adjust to the situation, but it looks as though brother is refusing to make ANY concessions to your presence there. Zoe reacted in a normal way, actually better than my punkins would have. We all know dogs can sense when another person is hostile. Fear and protectiveness would be perfectly justified. Sounds like he is trying to push the envelope. He can't come out and object to you being there, so he's aiming at Zoe thinking he has the pit issue to back him up. Have you had a chance to just calmly discuss the issue with your parents alone?

phoenix
July 21st, 2006, 12:07 PM
(IMO) , I think it she was trying to make a point that ALL dogs regardless of size have the capability of doing some damage, I see from the list you typed that those breeds are all lrg/xtr lrg breeds is there NO small breeds that bite,

I completely agree with what you've said... but that is not the point. (CDC would be reporting a list of reported dog bites, right? ) She said labs were MOST likely to bite than all other breeds and I'd like to see her back that up.

Writing4Fun
July 21st, 2006, 12:24 PM
Libby is bang on with my intentions. I was using labs and poodles as an example. The comment about lab bites is a statemtent that was made many times on this forum with proof to back it up. I don't have the time to look it up right now, I was just repeating what I've been told by very knowledgeable people. It has to do with the sheer numbers of labs being out there and badly bred/handled. Just because bites aren't reported doesn't mean they don't happen. For the record, I was not slamming one breed over another. I love labs. My previous dog was part lab. My neighbour's lab is a good friend of mine and I love him to pieces. Just as you're tired of seeing one breed slammed to defend another, I'm tired of people thinking that pitties or rotties or dobies are the root of all evil. I know a woman who was seriously mauled - had one breast and half of her face - torn off by a Cocker Spaniel. Does that mean all cockers are evil and I hate cockers? No. So please don't jump down my throat. I didn't jump down yours for listing GSDs as biters, even though my dog is a GSD mix. Peace. :pawprint:

phoenix
July 21st, 2006, 12:35 PM
w4f I didn't make up the list...

Posting on the basis of hearsay ("I was just repeating what I've been told by very knowledgeable people") is irresponsible IMO. What knowledgeable person told you that a lab would be more likely than any other breed to bite? I am not "jumping down your throat" I'm asking you (and I guess you're refusing) to back up what you say.

Anyway, any large dog (and probably any small dog...) is able to hurt a child. I agree with the intention, but it really boils my blood to see these unfounded statements (ie. a chihuahua is more likely to bite than a pitbull)... they are AS HARMFUL as the statements made by people who are out to get pitbulls (ie. all pitbulls are evil) but they seem to be acceptable to most people on this site. I just don't get it.

glasslass
July 21st, 2006, 12:43 PM
(IMO) I think it she was trying to make a point that ALL dogs regardless of size have the capability of doing some damage, I see from the list you typed that those breeds are all lrg/xtr lrg breeds is there NO small breeds that bite, I agree that lrg breeds will do far greater damage but working in a shelter for many years, trust me when I say little dogs bite and do damage as well.

I'm a poodle owner, so I think I can speak up without stepping on anyone's toes. Small dogs will indeed bite. My second poodle bit a child's lip, requiring 5 stitches. I won't go into all the details except to say the child's parents were present when it happened and never blamed the dog. We became great friends, getting acquainted in the hospital ER. The reasons why small dogs have a high incidence of biting are many:

1. Owners tend not to see the need for obedience training and socialization because little dogs aren't as conspicuous when misbehaving. Often they think their behavior is "cute".

2. Children will approach a large dog cautiously, but rush right up to a little one thinking they are "safe".

3. Parents don't watch their kids' behavior as closely around small dogs.

4. Small dogs feel more vulnerable and defensive around children. They know they can be hurt by them. Children often startle them.

When my dog bit, he was 13yrs old. The incident happened while he was sitting in my lap and was so quick that I didn't have time to prevent it. We had never had a problem before. I never again allowed him to be in situations where I knew small children would be present, for his protection. I know the dog is always blamed.

Puppyluv
July 21st, 2006, 12:46 PM
CM, I'm so sorry to hear about the judgement of your family on Zoe. It's hard enough from strangers, but when it's family, it gets really tough to deal with :(


Phoenix:
- There are no accurate national dog bite statistics in Canada.
- Most agencies agree that the majority of dog bites go unreported. (this would include the tiny dogs, who are mysteriously absent from your list)
- U.S. dog bite statistics are mostly based on a small telephone survey.
What many fail to realize about commonly referred to dog bite statistics in the U.S. is their source is often a relatively small 1994 telephone survey. Conducted in conjunction with the US Department of Health and Human Services and the Centers for Disease Control, more than 5,000 responses from a random digit dialing telephone survey were recorded and weighted based on age, gender, race, and region.
This would be where your data came from.



That being said, there are some local stats one can look at:

"According to statistics kept by city of Boulder Animal Care and Control, "labs" as they are so innocently called were responsible for an astonishing 18.9 percent of the 748 dog bites in the city from 1997 to 2003, more than twice as many as the next highest breed (German shepherds, at 8.5 percent)."

Writing4Fun
July 21st, 2006, 01:07 PM
Thank you, puppyluv, for posting that comment. I had just found it in a search and was going to do the same.

Phoenix, I'm sorry if I misspoke. The lab comment was based on things I had read and had been told. These knowledgeable people I mentioned are from this very board, people who work in rescue and whom I consider to be more 'experts' in the field than the actual 'experts'. After doing some research, I found that dog bite stats are very imprecise, so I tend to take them with a huge grain of salt. Some reports listed labs as the #1 biters (like in the quote puppyluv provided). I found a list of stats from Manitoba that listed GSD/GSD-Xs as #1, Rotties/Rottie-Xs as #2 and Labs/Lab-Xs as #3 in dog bites (not fatalities). I guess if we search long and hard enough, any one of us will find stats to support our claims.

My point was that any dog, regardless of breed or size, is capable of biting and causing severe wounds, especially to a young child. Having the OPs brother say that only a Pit Bull can cause that kind of damage is very frustrating and will rally this board to support the OP.

Dukieboy
July 21st, 2006, 02:17 PM
I think part of the problem might be that men are more uncomfortable with fear than women. I think they feel ashamed of being afraid. As for why he is afraid, Michael Bryant and the media have done a wonderful job of making people afraid of pitbulls. I am sorry your situation in such, hopefully you can find a place of your own?

phoenix
July 21st, 2006, 03:08 PM
thanks w4f, that is what i wanted to hear :thumbs up

i'm actually not a lab person; i'm a boxer fan. Just hate to have ANY breed misrepresented, that's all. I know very well that small dogs can and do bite... and so do labs... and I'm also more aware than most how statistics work... just wanted the back up as I wasn't finding it myself.

Any med to lg black dog is likely to be called a lab (or a pit) and any large dog is going to have lots of reports on it re. danger/biting/etc.

Don't know if you buy into the ATTS but 91% of labs tested (and they tested more than 600) passed... 84% of pits passed, 85% of boxers, 83% rottis...) http://www.atts.org/testdesc.html. A local stat doesn't really mean that much... could be the same blood running around causing the problem...

So... back to our original program...

Prin
July 21st, 2006, 05:02 PM
IShe said labs were MOST likely to bite than all other breeds and I'd like to see her back that up.Ok, we'll call it a German Shepherd instead, and I'll give you this:
http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/duip/dog3.pdf
Pitties aren't even on the list in that one.
And a TON of lab bites get passed off as pitty bites.

But that is not the point and breed is irrelevant- and that is the point.. The point is getting apprehensive about a dog based on things you've heard in the media when you KNOW a dog (in Copper's case) of that breed and trust the dog. Why judge one differently than the other?

seeker
July 21st, 2006, 05:14 PM
Coppersmom , calm down a little . The only way to solve this is by giving everyone a bit of time to get to know each other . Zoe to get to know the kids , your brother to get to know Zoe.
Think about it for a second the first time he dropped by unexpected the dog was growling maybe out of fear but how can he know that ? I am not trying to pry but there could be other "family" reasons that he came on so hard about the dog that I don't need to know about.
Technically and legally the dog does not have to be muzzled at home and I am sure you know the law as well as I do but you yelling at your Brother and him yelling back is not going to solve this problem . So I say it again calm down and let everyone have a bit of time . Consider muzzling the dog temporarily until all people realize there is no problem.
One more thing it really is too bad that some people seem to have to be told by the government {of all the groups you could take advice from} what is good or bad for them. It troubles me, that more and more often people cannot think for themselves .

phoenix
July 21st, 2006, 05:21 PM
Ok, we'll call it a German Shepherd instead, and I'll give you this:
http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/duip/dog3.pdf
Pitties aren't even on the list in that one.
And a TON of lab bites get passed off as pitty bites.

But that is not the point and breed is irrelevant- and that is the point.. The point is getting apprehensive about a dog based on things you've heard in the media when you KNOW a dog (in Copper's case) of that breed and trust the dog. Why judge one differently than the other?

First of all, your paper is 15 years old and a local stat once again (Denver in this case) and I'm not sure of its relevance- I guess that it doesn't include pitbulls?- Secondly, I think we've made the point that stats are imprecise and biased in favor of population, at best. And Thirdly, my argument was NEVER that pits are more likely to bite. My argument was that you can't say which breed would be most likely to bite (you can't say it about labs just as much as you can't say it about pits).
And fourthly this was about Zoe anyway. I am good now with the intention of the post, so can we get back to Copper's Mom? (I apologize- your problem really is more important than mine, and truly the hijack is my fault).

Prin
July 21st, 2006, 05:23 PM
Oh, ok.:D

(btw, it might be an old paper, but they consider it pretty "current" on the cdc website, which just goes to show...)

babyrocky1
July 21st, 2006, 05:57 PM
Coppersmom , calm down a little . The only way to solve this is by giving everyone a bit of time to get to know each other . Zoe to get to know the kids , your brother to get to know Zoe.
Think about it for a second the first time he dropped by unexpected the dog was growling maybe out of fear but how can he know that ? I am not trying to pry but there could be other "family" reasons that he came on so hard about the dog that I don't need to know about.
Technically and legally the dog does not have to be muzzled at home and I am sure you know the law as well as I do but you yelling at your Brother and him yelling back is not going to solve this problem . So I say it again calm down and let everyone have a bit of time . Consider muzzling the dog temporarily until all people realize there is no problem.
One more thing it really is too bad that some people seem to have to be told by the government {of all the groups you could take advice from} what is good or bad for them. It troubles me, that more and more often people cannot think for themselves .I think Seeker has the right idea here Coppers Mom, you have been through so much already....as tempting as it is to get really ticked at your brothers ignorance of the breed, which is exactly my first reaction when I read your post) I think the key word here is de-escalation. The kids and the dogs will pick up on the tension so just do whatever you can to passify them without compromising the dogs comfort level too much. Its a delicate balancing act for sure! I just think it will be less stressful on YOU if you try and let some of it go for now. You have so many other things to focus on...! Try and give yourself a break:grouphug: Call me!

babyrocky1
July 21st, 2006, 06:07 PM
I second DRN. Exactly what I was going to say... the children come first, your dogs aren't completely used to them being around all the time, the kids aren't necessarily great with dogs... I'd take every precaution because how would you feel if something actually did happen? You are in someone else's home... how does your mom feel about it? I think muzzling is a bit excessive, but keeping the kids and dogs totally separate unless you're right there is best. (you said you keep her crated or on a leash... how did she get over to the door to growl at your brother? were the kids not there?)

????
the kids werent there, shes giving you the history on what has happened between her brother and the dog. The brother startled her and the dogs, To Zoe, it seemed that he was an intruder since he came through the door without warning. Zoe didnt act out with the kids, but this is where some of the brothers fear may be coming from, and the rest is coming from media and media monsters! We all know who they are!

MyBirdIsEvil
July 21st, 2006, 08:10 PM
I hate to tell people what they should do, so I'll just give an opinion on what I personally would do if put in this position. (as someone who's had to move back home before)
It's always hard to move back into your parents house, you kind of have to accept that it's THEIR home, not yours.
I always found it easier to get along with my family after moving back, by treating it as if a friend had done me a favor by inviting me into their home.
Take this example:
If a friend of mine let me come live with them, and their son wanted me to muzzle my dogs because his children were going to be there, I wouldn't get in an argument with their son about it. It would suck, but it would be the only thing to do (other than moving out) without disrespecting their home.
I understand rules seem a bit different with family, but sometimes we forget that our family are still individuals, and they won't always agree with what we say.
I hope this maybe puts it in a different perspective.

Prin
July 21st, 2006, 08:34 PM
That's true. When I came back, for a couple of months before finding my own place, I stayed at my dad's and treated it as though I was renting a room in somebody else's house.

Copper'sMom
July 22nd, 2006, 01:07 AM
Thanks all for the advice!
First off, I guess the reasons why I don't want to muzzle Zoe around the children is that:
1)she's confined almost all day in one way or another - be it on a leash, in a crate, outside on a tie out, behind a baby gate or in my bedroom at night. I do have to go to work 8 hours a day and she spends most of her time in her crate. When I am home with her, I spend all of my time with her playing walking and relaxing. She does not have much freedom here at all.
2)she is more at ease(obviously) without the muzzle on. When the muzzle is on, she gets tense and towards other dogs she gets aggressive. With the children, I don't want her to be tense because that doesn't help her socialize with the kids.
3)she is NEVER left alone for a millisecond with the kids. I am always right there instructing the kids on what to do or not do. I do not see my dog as different than any other breed of dog. So why doesn't the rest of the world muzzle their dogs around kids?? She has never done anything to warrant her wearing a muzzle around the kids.

What is really funny though, is that I have babysat my nieces and nephews at my house with Zoe there and it was never a problem before but now it is!

To clarify about my brothers:
My 31 year old brother is the one who walked in the house unannounced. He doesn't own a dog and never has - except our family dog when we were kids, which he couldn't have cared less about. He hasn't told me to muzzle Zoe and he has seen his children with Zoe and saw that all was fine. Yes, he's worried about Zoe's reaction when he walked in the house and I don't blame him. But at the same time, he can't put all the blame on Zoe either. It's not like she acts like that out of the blue when people are visiting. She's not "turning" as the world likes to say.

My 33 year old brother is the hottest headed person around. You can't talk to him at all. No, not even a civil conversation because he's the one who will start yelling and screaming and shoving his finger in your face no matter how nice you try to be about whatever situation(even the minor ones) you are talking about. My Mom and my other brother totally agree with me on this one. "oh that's just how he is, just ignore him" they say. He's the one who wants Zoe muzzled around his kids - he's the Rottie owner who shouldn't have a dog at all. I wouldn't be surprised if she were to bite him in the butt some day. He doesn't believe in euthansia either because it costs to much $$ - he'd rather take care of it himself ----he's a total loser IMO. He doesn't even treat his wife and kids all that great - would you want to live with someone who yells at you everyday about stupid things? Ya well that's him!

i'll be back tomorrow to finish as i have so much more to say!

Prin
July 22nd, 2006, 01:20 AM
Umm, no offense but I like technodoll's brother better.:D (What is that the third time I've mentioned him tonight? Lucky my man's not watchin')

seeker
July 22nd, 2006, 06:29 AM
My 33 year old brother is the hottest headed person around. You can't talk to him at all. No, not even a civil conversation because he's the one who will start yelling and screaming and shoving his finger in your face no matter how nice you try to be about whatever situation(even the minor ones) you are talking about. My Mom and my other brother totally agree with me on this one. "oh that's just how he is, just ignore him" they say. He's the one who wants Zoe muzzled around his kids - he's the Rottie owner who shouldn't have a dog at all. I wouldn't be surprised if she were to bite him in the butt some day. He doesn't believe in euthansia either because it costs to much $$ - he'd rather take care of it himself ----he's a total loser IMO. He doesn't even treat his wife and kids all that great - would you want to live with someone who yells at you everyday about stupid things? Ya well that's him!

i'll be back tomorrow to finish as i have so much more to say!


It is always tough when it is immediate family that you are having the problem with . If it were anyone else it is easy to walk away and leave them to their own little world with them wondering all the time why everyone else is so screwed up .
Still I would not get into a yelling match with this guy because nothing is resolved . It is your Mom's house and from what you suggest she supports your position if that is the case talk to your Mom first and if ok with her just tell the guy how it is , how it is going to be and if he doesn't like it there are lots of places that do daycare that don't have pitbulls and that you suggest he find one .
This guy sounds so much like my late brother in-law in every way you describe him from the way he treats his family , dog etc .Make a suggestion that he look up stats on the longevity of people that are constantly stressed out about everything around them because they usually don't live too long . I know that first hand . Lynn's brother was always having confrontations with people and especially with his "little sister" .I don't think any dog the man ever owned died of old age. He was constantly stressed out mostly from small everyday problems that he always made bigger than they needed to be. He died a couple of years ago , long before he needed to.

mastifflover
July 22nd, 2006, 08:13 AM
Well you are in a tough situation. I understand your points totally but you are living at your parents (and that sucks too) but try and be as flexible as possible at least till you get out on your own again. I can imagine you want to jump down your brothers throat, I know I do just reading about him. But you are never going to change his mind because it is made up and then he would have nothing to bitch at you about. He needs something to keep his negative aura going. What would you expect Jessie to do is someone came into your home she did not know? Exactly what she did and what any dog would do, so he is an idiot for walking in unannounced and I think looking to prove his point. Do not give him ammo and when you get your place and he tells you to muzzle Jessie you can kindly tell him to F))) off and if he does not like it there is the door don't let it hit you in the a$$ on your way out. Well this just gives you even more reasons to get out as soon as possible. Good luck and hugs for Jessie we know she is not a killer just a cutie pie. By the way here is an article for your brother about a Pomeraninan killing a baby imagine it is not a pit bull.
http://edition.cnn.com/2000/US/10/09/pomeranian.kills.ap/

jesse's mommy
July 22nd, 2006, 08:21 AM
Pssst, Mastifflover, it's Zoe not Jesse. :D

mastifflover
July 22nd, 2006, 08:40 AM
Sorry about that Zoe and Coppers mom got on a rant. Thanks for the correction haven't had my coffee yet.

phoenix
July 22nd, 2006, 09:59 AM
Oh there are two brothers. Oh that makes sense :thumbs up I was confused.

If your mom is in agreement with you, then I think you should continue to do as you're doing and ignore your brother's rant. It's her house. Sounds like you're doing everything right.
(Hope you're doing well... with everything else going on you probably don't need this on top of it).

DRN
July 22nd, 2006, 01:02 PM
I agree with Phoenix. If your mother thinks things are fine, follow her lead and don't let your oldest brother get to you. Rather than a dog problem, could this be a human problem between you and your oldest brother?

Copper'sMom
July 23rd, 2006, 01:34 AM
ok, it's late once again. i've been working 3-11pm and the rest of my day is spent out in the yard with Zoe so that doesn't leave me much computer time!

So i didn't get to mention much about my mom's hubby. He now is siding with my hot headed brother. There is not much more I can do now as I have been told to find somewhere else for Zoe to stay. She is allowed to stay here for now, but she has to go soon. I am desperately looking to find a place to live that will alllow pets - this is really hard. Also, i was laid off of work in June - i had temporary work for 2 weeks and then 2 weeks looking after mom's house and i just started another factory job on Monday. So i will be starting life over in a huge financial struggle. My mom and hubby said i could stay here a few months to get caught up in bills, but that won't be happening! I will work 2 jobs if need be and Zoe can stay at the kennel for a very short term basis as I don't want to be away from her for too long! But I gotta get out of here for all of our sakes! Poor girl, at night, everyone is in bed and she gets 1/2 hr- 1 hour of being free in the house. And boy does she get the zoomies!! She totally needs to get out of here, it's not fair for her either to be confined and restricted.
She has to be watched like a hawk because her and my mom's dog don't get along well - they are both at fault - it's not just Zoe!

so much more to say yet and not enough time!

Oh it's ok mastifflover about the name confusion!;)

Puppyluv
July 23rd, 2006, 03:44 AM
Oh CM, that really sucks. I'm so sorry to hear that Zoe isn't wanted at your parent's house, especially with everything else you're going through. Stay tough, you're doing a great job for zoe, and you know she loves you for it. :grouphug:

glasslass
July 23rd, 2006, 10:01 AM
Just want to give you a :grouphug: Hang in there! At least you've started back to work. Good luck with the apartment search!

mastifflover
July 23rd, 2006, 10:15 AM
Where are you looking to live? If you are looking in Toronto I may have a lead on a place they are okay but the price is right and the landlord is a good guy and tons of dogs in the building. If you are interested pm me and I will check it out further for you. I feel bad for you and Zoe ( I have had my coffee see I am more on the ball) to be going through a shi**y situation and then have your brother turn some of your family against your dog and you. I know they are going to let you stay but Zoe is part of you.

Copper'sMom
July 26th, 2006, 01:28 AM
Thank you everyone sooooo much for your support and :grouphug:s and kind words. It's really great that you all understand. :grouphug: I knew I would have to put up with some crap about the breed I own, but never thought it would be liek this!

Things have settled down here so far. My oldest brother brings his boys elsewhere to be looked after which is fine because now my mom looks after my other brother's girls. She can't handle all 4 kids together. This brother has never mentioned that Zoe needs to be muzzled around his kids (he's the one that walked in the back door and Zoe scared him and vice versa).
I do know why I lost complete control with my oldest brother last week - pms:o - it didn't help the situation just really aggrevated it. But i don't have any regrets.

So like i mentioned before, my mom's hubby said Zoe had to go. He labels her as aggressive. Why?? Because she likes to chase cats(most dogs do) and because her and my mom's dog don't get along. When Zoe is in her crate and a cat RUNS by, she barks and sort of growls - more of a play/excited growl and goes into a play bow - it's definitely not aggression. The other reason why he thinks she's aggressive is because when I was at work, my mom took her out of her crate without taking any of the precautions I have repeated over and over. When Zoe is out, she must be seperated from my mom's dog. I have told her a million times, if she accidently hurts her dog, it could cost Zoe her life. So anyway, my mom took her out of her crate while i was at work and wasn't paying attention when her dog Kimo came where Zoe was. Zoe jumped on her(small eskie) and pinned her to the floor. Mom and hubby said Zoe had her by the throat. So they got them seperated and checked Kimo over and there wasn't a scratch on her.
These 2 dogs haven't had a chance to establish their ranking order in the house - both are spayed female with jealousy issues. My mom's dog is like all the other little UNTRAINED dogs out there - yes, even the little biting ones. It's ok though, because she's small.:mad: SO anyway, IF Zoe if was aggressive, she would have killed Kimo in an instant - not just held her to the ground - IMO. But being the expert of everything, this is why my mom's hubby thinks she is aggressive.
Soooooooooo, if she's so aggressive and he doesn't want anything to do with her, than why the hell would he take her out while I'm at work - after this incident????? When I went to work, I put her in his workshop out in the backyard (all my stuff is stored in there) with my bed setup and the couch setup for her, radio on--almost like home for her. She was quite content to hang out in there with room to romp and play. She didn't bark or whine or anything. We hung out in there on Sunday when it was rainy because my mom had company. SHe was happy out there because she wasn't tied up or on a leash or in a crate! So mom's hubby had to take her out when she was sleeping and when he put her back in there without any kong treats(our normal being left alone routine) than of course she barked and whined. So after 5 minutes, he brought her in the house and she was crated again. Why can't they let her be?????? I respect that it's their house and their rules, but can they not respect that it's my dog? All it takes is one screw up and I could lose her. If anyone is gonna screw up, than let it be me - because than there would be no one else to blame. They don't understand how serious the consequences could be. They don't understand it could cost Zoe her life - but they probably don't care!

My mom doesn't want me to go just yet. I told her that I have to because than she'll have to listen to her hubby biatch at her everyday about my dogs. She doesn't care, but I don't want to have her put up with it. HE gets mad because she sticks up for me. So, I'm lookin' for a place to call home with my pooches and kitties.:love:

If you are looking in Toronto I may have a lead on a place they are okay but the price is right and the landlord is a good guy and tons of dogs in the building. If you are interested pm me and I will check it out further for you.
Thanks mastifflover!!! I would consider moving to the big city, but I can't leave my Mommy!!!!:love: Living 20 mins away from her was bad enough! We are pretty close and I just hate being away from her. But thanks for the offer!!

Rather than a dog problem, could this be a human problem between you and your oldest brother?
My brother is nothing but his own problem. We've never really had a close relationship like my other brother and I. I used to be a hot head like him - when I was in my teens! But then I realised, I should start listening to other people;s points of views and take what they say into consideration as well as my thoughts. And I do - but my brother doesn't. EVeryone just tries to ignore him - even his wife.:eek: But in this situation, it's definitely a dog problem for him due to ignorance and lack of doggy education.

Dukieboy
July 26th, 2006, 10:42 AM
Wow Coppers Mom!!! I am sorry for your situation. I hope everything works out. Below is an excellent websit for finding rentals all over canada never mind Toronto and what I really like about it is each property tells you if pets are allowed and if there is a yard. Keep us posted, :grouphug: to you, Zoe and Copper.

http://www.viewit.ca/