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New no grain dog food

mastifflover
July 19th, 2006, 08:19 AM
Have you seen this food it is grain free and looks pretty good to me. Here is the link http://www.championpetfoods.com/
Opinions welcome

technodoll
July 19th, 2006, 09:23 AM
i didn't find any info on the food "orijen" on the link you posted (says "coming in July"), but I did find this while googling: http://www.championpetfoods.com/interzoolaunch.aspx

is it the same food? since i don't know it, don't have an opinion on it... except the less grains the better, pending appropriate protein levels... as mother nature intended... y'all know what i think on that! LOL :rolleyes:

meb999
July 19th, 2006, 12:49 PM
well the Premium Deluxe Adult dog food has corn listed as their second ingredient AND it has the menadione sodium bisulphite complex....
Chicken meal, whole grain corn, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols, citric acid and rosemary extract), whole grain rice, beet pulp (sugar removed), natural chicken flavor, whole ground flax, dicalcium phosphate, potassium chloride, choline chloride, yeast culture, inulin (FOS), mannanoligosaccharides (MOS), dried whole garlic, dried whole egg, lysine, yucca shidigera, glucosamine sulfate (powdered lobster shell) chondroitin sulfate (shark cartilage), lutein (marigold extract), ascorbic acid (vitamin C), vitamin A acetate, cholecalciferol (vitamin D), dl alpha tocopherol acetate (vitamin E), ferrous sulfate, *zinc bioplex, zinc oxide, niacin, calcium pantothenate, copper sulfate, *copper bioplex, manganous oxide, *manganese bioplex, riboflavin, calcium iodate, thiamine mononitrate, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), folic acid, biotin, sodium selenite, menadione sodium bisulphite complex (vitamin K), vitamin B12. *chelated mineral


but the other foods look pretty good....

mastifflover
July 19th, 2006, 12:59 PM
this is the ingredients in the premium deluxe no corn listed on the Acana Premium Deluxe Adult
Chicken meal (low ash), steamed oatmeal, ground whole rice, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols, citric acid and rosemary), rice bran, ground flaxseed (source of Omega 3), beet pulp, herring oil (natural source of DHA and EPA), chicken broth, yeast extract (Saccharomyces cerevisiae fermentation solubles), chicory root (FOS), steamed sweet potato, dried whole egg, yucca shidigera, glucosamine HCl (powdered lobster shell), chondroitin sulfate (shark cartilage), marigold extract (source of lutein), L-carnitine supplement, Atlantic kelp, carrots, tomatoes (natural source of lycopene), apples, whole garlic, parsley, rosemary extract, cranberry, sea salt, potassium chloride, choline chloride, lysine, vitamin A supplement, dl alpha-tocopherol acetate (vitamin E), methionine, vitamin D3 supplement, *iron Bioplex™, *zinc Bioplex™, *manganese Bioplex™, biotin, *copper Bioplex™, niacin, riboflavin, thiamine mononitrate, vitamin K supplement, pyridoxine hydrochloride (source of vitamin B6), vitamin B12, folic acid. *chelated mineral
http://www.championpetfoods.com/dogs/premium_adult.aspx

Prin
July 19th, 2006, 02:38 PM
You can't be sure they don't put menadione in there because they just don't say what the "vitamin K supplement" is... You'd have to email them about it and see...

Also, being that you have big dogs, I'd tend to steer clear of foods that are preserved with citric acid (can cause bloat).

Otherwise, in the "Premium" that you posted, Mastifflover, doesn't have corn but has a lot of rice (it's twice in the ingredient list). And then it has the beet pulp to harden up the stool after so much rice and oatmeal....;)

The Premium deluxe isn't worth looking at IMO... Looks just like any other Eagle Pack food to me.;)

RaYne
July 20th, 2006, 10:39 AM
Hey now don't knock Eagle Pack. ;) LOL I'm kidding. I'm not much for EP either honestly, but both my puppers are doing great on it. Darn Bubba and his tummy issues.

That food doesn't really look that bad to me.. there are much worse. But that "vitamin K supplement" is a sneaky way of not telling you exactly what it is. It is more than likely menadione though.

Oh hey Prin.. about the citric acid. Eagle Pack contains this also. From what I've read as long as food is NOT pre-moisten prior to feeding that it's ok. I did a quick search and found this info... I was just wondering what info you had on citric acid?

"""One is the risk of bloat for these dogs. There are no known ingredients linked to cases of bloat, except for one. Even in this case, very specific circumstances surround the link between bloat and citric acid. Some pet foods contain citric acid as a preservative. The only time this ingredient is problematic is when the food is fed soaked in water. When fed dry, there is not a correlation between citric acid and increased incidence of bloat episodes."""

Prin
July 20th, 2006, 02:03 PM
There was a really good link about bloat that compiled all the research, but it stopped working a couple of weeks ago. :rolleyes: It was mainly a precaution to avoid it completely because if you moisten the food, gas is released, but what about if the dog drinks right after eating? The food still isn't digested, you know?

The study said that the risk increased 4.2 fold when the food containing citric acid was moistened but they didn't have a control where it wasn't moistened, so we can't know for sure what the effect of dry citric acid is, if it's only wetting the food prior to injection that does it, or if drinking after a meal can do it too... That's why- without new studies testing specifically for the risk of bloat with dry food (unmoistened) containing citric acid, we can't assume that it isn't a factor or has no effect.

http://www.vet.purdue.edu/epi/dietrisk.htm

technodoll
July 20th, 2006, 02:17 PM
here is an excellent & well-written report on Bloat: http://www.globalspan.net/bloat.htm

extract:

Causes

According to the links below, it is thought that the following may be the primary contributors to bloat. To calculate a dog's lifetime risk of bloat according to Purdue University's School of Veterinary Medicine, click here.

Stress Dog shows, mating, whelping, boarding, change in routine, new dog in household, etc.
Although purely anecdotal, we've heard of too many cases where a dog bloated after a 3rd dog was brought into the household (perhaps due to stress regarding pack order). New
Activities that result in gulping air

Eating habits, especially... Elevated food bowls
Rapid eating
Eating dry foods that contain citric acid as a preservative (the risk is even worse if the owner moistens the food) New
Eating dry foods that contain fat among the first four ingredients New
Insufficient Trypsin (a pancreatic enzyme present in meat)
Dilution of gastric juices necessary for complete digestion by drinking too much water before or after eating New
Eating gas-producing foods (especially soybean products, brewer's yeast, and alfalfa) New

Exercise before and especially after eating
Heredity (especially having a first-degree relative who has bloated)
Build & Physical Characteristics Having a deep and narrow chest compared to other dogs of the same breed
Older dogs
Males
Being underweight

Disposition Fearful or anxious temperament
Prone to stress
History of aggression toward other dogs or people

Prin
July 20th, 2006, 02:18 PM
That's the one I was talking about! I couldn't get in there the past little while so I gave up and thought it was gone forever.:highfive:

technodoll
July 20th, 2006, 02:20 PM
:highfive: now we have it again! :D

greaterdane
July 20th, 2006, 02:35 PM
yeah! That is the study that says elevated food bowls are not to be used. I am sick of strangers asking me..."is his food raised? It needs to be raised".

Prin
July 20th, 2006, 02:42 PM
Yeah, "Keep up with the times, People!" lol Just because we eat at a table and we don't get bloat (often), doesn't mean that that's what is missing from our dog's dietary habits.:rolleyes:

greaterdane
July 20th, 2006, 02:43 PM
Yeah, "Keep up with the times, People!" lol Just because we eat at a table and we don't get bloat (often), doesn't mean that that's what is missing from our dog's dietary habits.:rolleyes:

Thank you! People look at me like I am a moron when I say "no they dont eat from an elevated bowl"

Prin
July 20th, 2006, 02:46 PM
You just have to say all serious, "The most recent research contradicts prior evidence and suggests that elevating bowls actually increases the risk of bloat."

greaterdane
July 20th, 2006, 02:55 PM
Nice :) Thanks

RaYne
July 20th, 2006, 05:27 PM
There was a really good link about bloat that compiled all the research, but it stopped working a couple of weeks ago. :rolleyes: It was mainly a precaution to avoid it completely because if you moisten the food, gas is released, but what about if the dog drinks right after eating? The food still isn't digested, you know?

The study said that the risk increased 4.2 fold when the food containing citric acid was moistened but they didn't have a control where it wasn't moistened, so we can't know for sure what the effect of dry citric acid is, if it's only wetting the food prior to injection that does it, or if drinking after a meal can do it too... That's why- without new studies testing specifically for the risk of bloat with dry food (unmoistened) containing citric acid, we can't assume that it isn't a factor or has no effect.

http://www.vet.purdue.edu/epi/dietrisk.htm

Thanks Prin and Technodoll for the links...

Well crap.. I don't moisten the dry kibble but they both do drink after eating. Wouldn't they would be gassy if it releases gas as it moistens. I haven't noticed any excess burping or farting. You figure the gas would have to go somewhere.

It took me over a year to find a food that worked for Bubba.. I really don't want to start that search all over again. UGH :(

mastifflover
July 20th, 2006, 05:54 PM
I happen to be a proponent of raised dishes but I am of the mind what ever works for your dogs. They work for us.

Prin
July 21st, 2006, 01:59 AM
I think it definitely would make them gassy. That's the whole basis of bloat- that gas builds up quickly and then gets trapped. But if you've been doing it for a while and they haven't even had a bit more gas than usual, I think it would be ok... Maybe. Maybe just be more strict about the other things- like no exercise for at least an hour before and after, and all that.

OntarioGreys
August 3rd, 2006, 11:52 AM
yeah! That is the study that says elevated food bowls are not to be used. I am sick of strangers asking me..."is his food raised? It needs to be raised".


There are a few conflicting studies on food bowl elevation, it all depend on how many dogs that were in the study that happened to be eating out of raised bowls, at the time of the bloat occurence it does not means the bowls were definitely the cause, just that it could be a factor, since there have been so many conflicting studies when it somes to food bowls, most sites do state they do not know a definite cause they do know heredity plays a role, the studies are searches for posssible common links, the majority of greyhound owners use for their dogs comfort, I am include in that bunch, I figured it really was not going to make much difference since one of my greys would lay down on the floor to eat when the dish was on the floor. I noticed many of my fosters would lay down in the crate to eat as well.

Prin
August 3rd, 2006, 01:57 PM
I think the more important factor is how they eat. Boo lies down too, but he eats so slowly so he's not likely to take up much air regardless of the position he eats from. If you have a wolfer, you definitely have to be up to date on the research.