July 14th, 2006, 12:59 AM
It seems cat owners aren't as loud as dog owners... I'm looking around and some otherwise good companies that have taken the bad synthetic vitamin K supplement out of their dog foods have left it in their cat foods. :eek:
What's going on?!
What kind of double standard is that?
Do dogs, who generally live shorter lives, deserve better food?
Just thought I'd bring it up.
If you are feeding your cat a food with menadione sodium bisulfate complex, try emailing/calling/writing to the company about your concerns and if enough of you do it, they will remove it.:thumbs up
July 14th, 2006, 01:13 AM
Even the vague ingredients like "fish meal"- they're everywhere, even in the best. :eek: I don't have cats so I never really checked, but geez, there just are slim pickings for cat foods without any questionable ingredients. I'm shocked and appauled!
July 14th, 2006, 01:26 AM
Prin, I recently just took my cats off Go! Natural/Summit food for this reason...but was of the impression it was being removed from all their pet foods.
Why would it only come out of the dog foods?
This is rather disturbing.....
I certainly will not be going back to it if thats the case.:mad: .
July 14th, 2006, 01:34 AM
I think the reason is they put all their good stuff in the wet. Like if you look at Wellness cat food:
Deboned Chicken, Chicken Meal, Chicken Liver, Ground Brown Rice, Ground Whole Oats, Canola Oil (Preserved With Mixed Tocopherols & Rosemary), Cranberries, Blueberries, Flaxseed, Eggs, Peas, Taurine, Garlic, Alfalfa Leaf, Spirulina, Norwegian Kelp, Whole Apples, Zucchini, Sweet Potatoes, Yucca Schidigera, Chondroitin Sulfate, Glucosamine, Pro-Biotics (Lactobacillus Plantarum, Enterococcus Faecium, Lactobacillus Casei, Lactobacillus Acidophilus), Pre-Biotics (Mannanoligosaccharides), Beta-Carotene, Choline Chloride, Calcium Carbonate, Zinc Proteinate (A Chelated Source Of Zinc), Vitamin E Supplement, Zinc Oxide, Ferrous Sulfate, Iron Proteinate (A Chelated Source Of Iron), Manganese Proteinate (A Chelated Source Of Manganese), Calcium Pantothenate, Niacin Supplement, Sodium Selenite, Vitamin A Acetate, Folic Acid, Cobalt Proteinate (A Chelated Source Of Cobalt), Copper Sulfate, Cobalt Carbonate, Riboflavin Supplement (Vitamin B-2), Copper Proteinate (A Chelated Source Of Copper), Thiamine Mononitrate (Vitamin B-1), Vitamin D-3 Supplement, Calcium Iodate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex (Source Of Vitamin K Activity).
Wet (turkey and salmon):
Turkey, Chicken Liver, Whitefish, Chicken Broth, Salmon, Sweet Potatoes, Carrots, Natural Chicken Flavor, Guar Gum, Carrageenan, Flaxseed, Squash, Cranberries, Blueberries, Zucchini, Potassium Chloride, Garlic, Dicalcium Phosphate, Calcium Carbonate, Taurine, Iron Proteinate (a source of Chelated Iron), Beta-carotene, Zinc Proteinate (a source of Chelated Zinc), Vitamin E Supplement, Choline Chloride, Cobalt Proteinate (a source of Chelated Cobalt), Thiamine Mononitrate, Copper Proteinate (a source of Chelated Copper), Folic Acid, Manganese Proteinate (a source of Chelated Manganese), Niacin, Calcium Pantothenate, Sodium Selenite, Vitamin D-3 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin Supplement, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin B-12 Supplement, Potassium Iodide, Biotin
The canned has nothing objectionable in it. If they just got rid of the menadione in the dry, it would be ok- grainy, but ok.
Just messed up though. It's in all their dry cat foods.:sad:
DVP's Natural balance is the same. No menadione in the dog food, and none in the cat food, but then they add "fish meal" just to muck it up.
Chicken, Chicken Meal, Brown Rice, Duck, Lamb Meal, Potatoes, Chicken Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols, Vitamin E) Canola Oil, Oatmeal, Fish Meal, Brewers Yeast, Rosemary Extract, Dried Skimmed Milk, Natural Flavor, Dried Eggs, Carrots, Whole Ground Flaxseed, Kelp, DL Methionine, Dried Cranberries, Lecithin, Parsley Flakes, Tomato Pomace, Taurine, Zinc Sulfate, Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Vitamin A Acetate, Riboflavin, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Biotin, Vitamin C Supplement, Yucca Schidigera, Folic Acid, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Vitamin K1 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Ethylene Dihydriodide, Sodium Selenite.
Solid Gold is the same too... :rolleyes: Fish meal can be what ever fish and have whatever preservatives on it and they don't have to tell you.
Looks like you all have to feed wet.:D
July 14th, 2006, 01:44 AM
I have a dry winner!!!
Canidae Platinum oops,
FELIDAE Platinum. :D
Chicken Meal, Turkey Meal, Brown Rice, Lamb Meal, Chicken Fat, (Preserved with mixed Tocopherols), Herring Meal, Eggs, Flax Seed Meal, Psyllium Husk, Sun Cured Alfalfa Meal, Sunflower Oil, (Preserved with mixed Tocopherols), Chicken, Kelp, Potassium Chloride, Linoleic Acid, Rosemary Extract, Sage Extract, Amaranth, DL Methionine, Taurine, Lecithin, Cranberries, Apples, Dried Enterococcus Faecium Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Aspergillus Oryzae Fermentation Extract, Dried Bacillus Subtilis Fermentation Extract, Fructooligosaccharide (FOS), Dried Saccharomyces Cerevisiae Fermentation Solubles, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Zinc Amino Acid Chelate, Manganese Amino Acid Chelate, Copper Amino Acid Chelate, Cobalt Amino Acid Chelate, Iron Amino Acid Chelate, Vitamin A supplement, D-Activated Animal Sterol (Vitamin D3), Vitamin E Supplement, Ascorbic Acid (Source of Vitamin C), L – Carnitine, Riboflavin (source of B2), Niacin, Choline Chloride, Calcium Pantothenate, Folic Acid, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B6), Thiamin Mononitrate(Vitamin B1), Beta Carotene, D - Biotin, Glucosamine Hydrochloride, Chondroitin Sulfate, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite, Papaya, Pineapple, Vitamin B12 supplement
And check it out! There are actually MORE probiotics by weight than some of the vitamins! I've never seen that before. Woo hoo!!:highfive: And look at all those MEATS!! mmm... Kitty Goodness! Nobody kill the dream by telling me how much it costs.:D
Even their "regular" cat and kitten formula looks great:
Chicken Meal, Turkey Meal, Brown Rice, Lamb Meal, Chicken Fat, (Preserved with mixed Tocopherols), Herring Meal, Eggs, Flax Seed Meal, Sun Cured Alfalfa Meal, Sunflower Oil, Chicken, Lecithin, Linoleic Acid, Amaranth, DL Methionine, Taurine, Kelp, Cranberries, Apples, Monocalcium Phosphate, Potassium Chloride, Choline Chloride, Rosemary Extract, Sage Extract, Dried Enterococcus Faecium, Dried Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Aspergillus Oryzae Fermentation Extract, Dried Bacillus Subtilis Fermentation Extract, Inulin (from Chicory Root), Dried Saccharomyces Cerevisiae Fermentation Solubles, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Mixed Tocopherols (source of Vitamin E), Zinc Amino Acid Chelate, Manganese Amino Acid Chelate, Iron Amino Acid Chelate, Copper Amino Acid Chelate, Cobalt Amino Acid Chelate, Vitamin A supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Ascorbic Acid (source of Vitamin C), Niacin, Thiamin Mononitrate (Vitamin B1), Riboflavin (source of B2), Beta Carotene, Calcium Pantothenate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B6), Calcium Iodate, Folic Acid, D-Biotin, Sodium Selenite, Papaya, Vitamin B12 Supplement
So now you know. If you don't want to feed canned, canidae appears to be the (only) way to go.:o
(in that order lol)
July 14th, 2006, 01:46 AM
I feed Innova tinned.
For dry food, I have mine back on the Felidae Cat and Kitten Formula, Prin -a food I've used a very long time. I just recently switched for a change, and as I thought Go Natural was better.
I'm really pleased to know that this is considered a good one!
oh... and price wise? Its one of the most economical in the premium foods that I've found,.. when purchased in the larger bag.
July 14th, 2006, 01:50 AM
lol I was quicker.:D :highfive:
July 14th, 2006, 01:54 AM
Innova is fishy... I mean, their canned says "herring oil" which when you click on it says:
Herring oil is the oil extracted from whole herring.
Herring oil provides a rich source of Omega 3 essential fatty acids. Because the herring that Natura uses is of such high quality, the herring oil helps produce healthy skin and lustrous coats
But then in their dry, it's "fish oil" which they define as:
Fish oil is the oil from rendering (cooking down) whole fish.
According to AAFCO definition, fish oil can contain cannery refuse; damaged, defective, or superfluous edible material produced during, or left over from, a manufacturing or industrial process. Many pet food manufacturers use this generic type of oil.
Ok, that's bad, right? But then they sneak this bit in:
Natura, however, uses only herring oil (a specific fish) and an excellent source of Omega 3 Fatty Acids. Even though our packaging lists 'fish oil,' the specific oil used in Natura products has always been herring oil.Ok, WHY not list it as Herring oil? Is it because if you say it on the packaging it has to be true but if you say it in cyberspace, you can claim you didn't write it? Sneaky indeed.
July 14th, 2006, 02:05 AM
yeah, doesnt that sound kind of evasive...:confused: .
There's just SO much to know, Prin,.lol
You really have an amazing handle on all this.. I havent even scratched the surface yet.
But.. I intend to.
July 14th, 2006, 02:08 AM
lol You just have to go online at 2 am and have mini debates with yourself.:D
The California Natural ones look ok too. (But I don't like how you have to link to the vitamins and minerals... more sneakiness).
Eagle pack's kitty formulas have no menadione, but they're loaded with corn, beet pulp, egg product.. etc etc.. nope.:rolleyes:
July 14th, 2006, 06:13 AM
I have my cats on Felidae and they love it. Great food!
July 14th, 2006, 12:21 PM
Just to keep myself educated, what is so bad about menadione? I have been avoiding it since I discovered this site, but dont quite know why?:pawprint:
thanks (again) in advance
July 14th, 2006, 01:11 PM
It's a synthetic vitamin K (K3) and it's banned for human consumption. We weren't sure either, but we didn't find anything good about it. The best food companies are removing it from their foods after hearing nothing but bad results from different studies, also because customers have emailed and put pressure on them to do so.
Some studies say it increases free radicals in the body, which can alter DNA and quickly lead to cancers and tumors, others say it disrupts normal cellular functions and cellular respiration, and still others say it can lead to kidney failure in some mammals.
Regardless, cheap, healthy sources of natural vitamin K are out there (like alfalfa) and there is NO need to put our pets' health at risk unnecessarily.
That's the jist of it.:)
July 14th, 2006, 01:40 PM
Some studies say it increases free radicals in the body, which can alter DNA and quickly lead to cancers and tumors,
And I thought free radicals were a good thing...then again, I like anything that's free!!
I'm going to bed a little less stupid tonight!! :D
July 14th, 2006, 01:45 PM
lol free radicals are bad. You need anti-oxidants to counteract the free radicals. :thumbs up
In the original menadione thread, we figured that if your dog food was sufficiently supplied with anti-oxidants, then your pet should be ok. But that won't stop the possible kidney failure, right?:o
July 21st, 2006, 12:17 PM
I have a really hard time with cat food. My guys were on California Natural for a while and they loved it, but then I had a hard time getting it. The pet store I deal with (the only one even remotely close to where I live) stopped carrying it because there wasn't enough demand, and they wouldn't order it for me. Then I had them on Chicken Soup for the Cat Lover's Soul, but one of my cats doesn't keep it down well, same with Eagle Pack. She's always had barfing issues and is the one I rely on to let me know if a food is of good enough quality to be feeding them :rolleyes: Since then I've had them on Holistic Blend and they do well, but I haven't checked the ingredient list for menadione. They don't seem to be as eager to eat when I feed the Holistic Blend, which probably means it's really good for them, little buggers! :love:
July 21st, 2006, 12:22 PM
Nope, the Holistic Blend doesn't have menadione in it. Here's the ingredient list:
Low ash chicken meal, ground brown rice, chicken fat (preserved with rosemary extract) hulless barley, chicken meat, soy protein, millet, salmon meal, flax seed, dried whole egg, phosphoric acid, amaranth, alfalfa, cranberries, apples, garlic powder, cinnamon powder, rosemary, potassium chloride, nutritional yeast, choline chloride, L-lysine, potassium sorbate, dicalcium phosphate, yucca shidigera, vitamin A acetate, vitamin D3, vitamin E, ferrous sulphate, taurine, zinc oxide, zinc proteinate, niacin, copper proteinate, manganese oxide, manganese proteinate, calcium pantothenate, pyridoxine hydrochloride, vitamin B12, calcium iodate, folic acid
July 21st, 2006, 01:34 PM
hmm, I may need to switch the cats off the Felidae. The very first bag they where fed they seemed very picky with it. I thought they where just being fussy. Bought that bag at Globl pet foods. Bought a 2nd bag and they ate it like there was no tomorrow. loved it. Bought that bag at a different pet store. Then last week I bought another bag from Global, different location though. All three cats wouldnt touch it! :confused: They let me return it and exchange it for another bag. They seem to be eating this bag, although not as much as the 2nd one they where fed. Weird. Worst was I threw out the bag so we couldnt get the lot/best before date off it.
So as great as Felidae is, I may try somthing else if I find the quality is going to be sketchy.
July 21st, 2006, 02:52 PM
Weird, eh? I've never heard of quality issues with either Felidae or Canidae...:o Maybe your kitties are just banding together to make you feel crazy.:evil:
July 21st, 2006, 03:27 PM
Yeah who knows. If it was 1 cat, maybe just fussy, but all three? Had to be a bad bag or somthing in it they didnt like.
September 9th, 2006, 04:14 PM
I realise this is a couple months old, but I searched menadione sodium bisulfate and here I am. Anyhoo, I'm looking to switch foods due to lack of availability of our regular catfood (we moved to another city). I was considering Wellness and then I saw IT in the ingredients. So Prin, I took your advice from the first post and emailed Wellness about the MSB. I used references from www.dogfoodproject.com, and hope that they have received other emails and letters concerning this. So for now I will drive well out of my way to get our regular food, until I can find a suitable food. I urge other cat owners to contact Old Mother Hubbard/Wellness and ask that they remove menadione sodium bisulfate from their products. Sidenote: I checked the ingredient list for the dog food (Super5Mix chicken formula) and they list "vitamin K supplement" which I assume is another way of saying MSB. So I mentioned that in my email as well. I thought they had removed it from dog foods?
September 9th, 2006, 04:23 PM
Stacer, they're not removing it from the dog food until the last quarter of this year. I emailed them a month ago asking for a more specific date but never got a reply. :frustrated:
September 9th, 2006, 05:41 PM
Ah, Ok. At least they're doing it. Maybe cat food is next.
September 9th, 2006, 05:52 PM
We can only hope. :fingerscr
September 9th, 2006, 09:54 PM
You can't just hope- most of the companies that removed it recently from their dog foods still have it in the cat foods. Cat owners have to become "squeaky wheels" and get it removed as the dog owners have.:fingerscr Writing to the company is great.
September 9th, 2006, 10:06 PM
I agree and I guess I shouldn't be so complacent. I started the whole thing here about menadione in dog food but only because from what I read on mordanna's site. Now that the fruit trees are finished and I have more time, I'll see what I can do.
September 9th, 2006, 10:07 PM
Emails in numbers, IMO.;)
September 9th, 2006, 11:45 PM
Have you started yet? ;)