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Bylaws restricting the number of pets

OntarioGreys
July 9th, 2006, 07:07 PM
I wonder how people here feel about it.

My thoughts

Setting limits, does not prevent hoarding, people that hoard do it regardless of what the laws are they simply hide the animals inside,


Depending what you city you are in the limits can vary, which makes moving to another area where the limits are lower impossible unless you are prepared to dump your pets.

For example where I live I can have 3 dogs maximum but can have unlimited cats, but if I wanted to move back to my hometown I am restricted to 2 pets total, which mean I cannot move back legally unless I am prepared to dispose of 3 of my pets, if my parents died I cannot take in their senior dog in who may only have a year left to live if that, because she can no longer see and is almost deaf and I am about the only other person she is comfortable with, putting her in a shelter or rescue would be cruel at this stage of her life, so my only option would be to either have her euthanized or put one of my own dogs in longterm foster care until she passes away. Yet I am allowed to be an irresponsible pet owner and have 3 unneutered dogs and breed them and have litter after litter as long as all pups are gone from the home by the time they reach 4 months of age, or I can bring in 150 cats not bother vetting or the means to care for them and that is okay and legal in my city under their by law

For this reason I hate these bylaws, instead I feel it would be far better not to have a rigid and unflexible limit, I would rather see a system that does have a limit and then if you want to add more pets than you must prove that you are capable of handling and providing appropiately for their care, for example a letter from the vet and and they can check with the local animal control to see if problems or complaints exist and have it be universally applied so that I have the freedom to move to another city if I was forced to relocate due to my job or simply I like living in that area better

I know in the US the National Dog Association has challenged as unconstitutional and won this arguement, many cities in the US still have dog have limits still but they have to offer options like variances and kennel licences options, neither of options are available to me in my home city, in order for me to get a kennel licence I have to move outiside the city limits build a kennel and fence it in then put an application in and just maybe I might be approves, if not I have wasted $1,000;s all just to be able to adopt and extra house pet, who would not even live in the actual kennel I am forced to build. If I was doing it for my parents dogs benefit she would be long dead before I would get a kennel licence in my hand.

There are people that enjoy being responsible animal parents and would love to adopt more and are capable of providing fully for their care , but their hands are tied by these by-laws, by creating a fairer system it would provide good caring homes for thousands of our homeless pets, and it would reduce to numbers dumped by owners who are forced to relocated in order to work or moved into another community not realized the pet limits were different.

mummummum
July 9th, 2006, 07:42 PM
It's funny you bring this up now OntarioGreys. On Friday I called TO Public Health/ Animal Services because I was concerned about overcrowding in a supportive housing room (not apartment - shared accommodations - a small room measuring if I'm being generous maybe 7 X10). According to Public Health, the 2 adult tenants in this room are permitted to keep their 3 medium-large sized dogs (2 GSD mixes, 1 Border Collie/ Lab mix) and nine puppies as long as the nine puppies were gone within 4 months. That still leaves 2 adults and 3 dogs in a room 24-7-365 as I understand that dogs are not permitted in the common living area or kitchen of this building. Apparently Public Health and the by-law does not distinguish between rooms and apartments. I also called THS who have promised to investigate as the dam is thin enough that I could put my fingers around her ribs. While I can see it's purpose, in this instance it is truly idiotic in it's (lack of) application.

Puppyluv
July 9th, 2006, 07:43 PM
I couldn't find the info for my borough, but for another in Montreal, it's:
* 2 dogs and 1 cat
* 2 cats and 1 dog
* 3 cats

It is forbidden to keep more than two dogs at any time, except when your dog has a litter. In that case, the puppies may be kept for a period of no more than 3 months.

I agree with you OG, it doesn't prevent the horders from doing so, and only prevents the rest of us from having the dogs they want. (or cats)

Puppyluv
July 9th, 2006, 07:50 PM
Off topic, yes, but from the same bourough's site:
It is forbidden to keep bull-terriers, staffordshire bull-terriers or American bull-terriers, or mixes comprising one of these breeds.

Since when are you not allowed them in St Laurent? Is this new? or am I just out of it?
Sorry OG for the threadjack.

catsnatcher-CDN
July 9th, 2006, 08:29 PM
Do they really enforce this bylaw?

I don't know what the bylaw is in my neighborhood but there's a brothel a few appartments down that they're doing nothing about, so I'd be pretty surprised if they do anything about housing one too many pets here.

I don't completely disagree with limiting pets but i think it should be more flexible with exceptions being made for rescues.

pitgrrl
July 9th, 2006, 09:54 PM
Off topic, yes, but from the same bourough's site:
It is forbidden to keep bull-terriers, staffordshire bull-terriers or American bull-terriers, or mixes comprising one of these breeds.

Since when are you not allowed them in St Laurent? Is this new? or am I just out of it?
Sorry OG for the threadjack.

Ville St Laurent is not the only area in Montreal with breed bans. Outremount, Lachine, Hampstead (as of this summer) all have similar by-laws.
The city of Montreal also restricts acess to off leash areas/times in city parks to APBT, Rotties and Dobes, if I remember correctly.

The City of Montreal has a 2 dog limit, whereas in Westmount it's 3 I believe, and cats are unlimited last time I checked.

Prin
July 9th, 2006, 10:03 PM
They can't not have any guidelines... It is hard because there are so many people in the city who don't pick up and don't respect leash rules but who do obey the max dog law- imagine if they didn't? :eek:

I mean, we don't have more dogs partly because I never want to have to give one up if they ever do enforce it... I mean, here I could probably have another one (not legally though) and nobody would say anything but back at my old apartment, I had a third dog for a week and the whole neighborhood knew (dog haters).

I've heard they do check if they get enough complaints though.. Which means that generally, if people are good dog owners with more than the limit, nobody would complain because they'd be healthy, quiet and properly cared for. I know the people across the street have at least 3 dogs but we never hear/smell/see anything suspicious so I doubt anybody will ever say a word.

I think they're a good idea, honestly. Yes, if people want more dogs, they'll do it anyway, but at least there is some sort of law to protect them... I mean, here we have so few laws to protect them. And it's like speeding- here, they don't ticket you for 120km/h, even though you're speeding, but you know you're walking a fine line and there could be repercussions.

OntarioGreys
July 9th, 2006, 11:04 PM
Off topic, yes, but from the same bourough's site:
It is forbidden to keep bull-terriers, staffordshire bull-terriers or American bull-terriers, or mixes comprising one of these breeds.

Since when are you not allowed them in St Laurent? Is this new? or am I just out of it?
Sorry OG for the threadjack.

Heck that is worth hijacking for :eek:

That is part of the problem there is no big bold signs telling us what pets we can have, people often don't learn they are in voliation until you go to register a pet or if a by-law enforcement officer shows up, this is what makes it hard to move around from one community to another because ownership rules are not standardized.

While I can see it's purpose, in this instance it is truly idiotic in it's (lack of) application. that was part of my point as well, the way the bylaws are set up now they allow and tolerate poor irresponsible pet ownership to continue but punish those who are responsible and would make good pet owners by preventing them from adopting more, I sure as heck do not agree with my cities unlimited ownership of cats, I still feel and agree limits have to be in place, but allows for flexiblity to adopt mere for those that meet and prove they can be responsible, I would be totally okay with a pet limit of one as a starting point. and "only" if you can prove that you can adequately care for it properly, would you be able to adopt another , for example their pets get routine health care are spayed an neutered vaccinations heartworm and annual physicals, don't let their pets become neighbourhood nuisances, etc etc if they pass only then can they add one more, if they want to adopt another then they must go thru the process again, this would reward good owners, if a person starts having problem with 3 pets, then can't add more, once one of their pets dies and if it shows they had ongoing problems with the 3 , they would be able to replace that lost pet, until at least a year has passed if their circumstances change and things improve they can be considered. This type of system can also help encourage people to be more responsible, by doing things like spaying and neutering, and would stop backyard breeding from existing, because you can't add a pet to your home without getting the prior neutered. If you move the city can provide a document that you could take to the next city to show you earned the right to have "x" number of pet and those pets would all be registered with that city.

this system also can makes it difficult for the person who thinks pets are disposable as now inorder to get a new pet certificate they have to prove they were a good dog owner, now they have to explain they got rid of the dog, if this puts them a zeros the city could offer an adoption certificate but it would be noted that they disposed of their pet.

The new person wanting to adopt their first pet needs to fend a vet they will use, then they go to the city and provide thename of the vet and recieve a certificate to adopt that notes "new adopter"

Now every rescue, breeder, shelter now has to obtain a 4 part copy of the "Right to Adopt Adoption Certificate form" when when adopting out an animal, the beauty of this is they now know something about the applicant which is

A) brand new adopter with no pet owning history

B) a former owner who has disposed of a pet, or lost a pet

C) a person who shown proof of responsible pet ownership

and they have a record of who the designated vet is(in the case of animals with special medical need or pets to young to be spayed then can follow up)

It saves the rescue some work screening adopters, they can decide whether or not the want to deal adopter B or how much investigation they want to with A or C , if the animal being applied for is a bit more dominant or difficult they may prefer it go to C person only.

once the adoption is completed they keep one copy, and they forward one to the vet , city and give one to the new owner, so now there is a paper trail for the new pet , and a vet file opened for the dog and the city has knowledge what animals are in that persons possession, a vet would send the city a death certificate in the case an animal became deceased to keep records up to date. In the event an animal is returned or turned over to another person or shelter, the original adoption certificate is needed much like vehicle registration, if they lose a pet then they must report it to the city.

This type of system I am thinking of puts tighter controls on irresponsible owners and rewards good owners, and would over the long haul would reduce a lot of the problems we currently have.

I don't know what the bylaw is in my neighborhood but there's a brothel a few appartments down that they're doing nothing about, so I'd be pretty surprised if they do anything about housing one too many pets here.


We have strip joints and sex shops next to schools here, and yet I got nailed for fostering a dog, a was given cease order, sometimes a cities priorties do not always make a lot of sense, I could have drunks coming in a out of my house all day long, but I can get nailed with a $150 fine if a guest comes over a brings their dog along, because I would have one dog over the legal limit on my property. The adoption group I volunteered for had a lawyer look into the cities bylaws looking for loopholes to allow me to continue fostering, and was willing to pay for a variance or kennel licence if there was some option like that within the bylaws, but their dog bylaws are wrap up iron clad they covered all the basis.

Some cities have the by laws online, mine used to be, now you have to go to the city find out what they are, and they may not provide you with the entire list. just segments. The bylaw enforcement officer that visited me had no clue when he arrived as to how fostering applied and had to go to the city's lawyers to find out and it took a couple week so by then my foster dog was placed, because he was gone by then there was no fine just as a cease order.

we3beagles
July 10th, 2006, 10:29 AM
I don't know about other cities, but in my situation in Calgary the limit is 3 dogs which I have. If I wanted another I would have to apply for a kennel licence, but it definitly is possible. The foundation I volunteer with has a revolving licence with the city that goes on our foster dogs.

lezzpezz
July 10th, 2006, 04:47 PM
And I thoroughly agree! In London Ontario: limit 3 dogs per household and 2 cats per person in a household.

I currently have 3 resuced dogs, and 3 rescued cats, all vaccinated/spayed/neutered/on Revolution etc., one epileptic and on treatment for that...you name it, they get it. I have been to the emerg vet clinic countless times at 4 a.m.(for some reason, whenever one gets ill or injured, it is at that ungodly hour on the weekend!! Never fails:o

So I was just looking at a beautiful husky girl that needs a home, but I cannot take her as I am at my legal "limit" for dogs. This poor dog was continually punched and held in headlock by the idiot "owner". She is afraid of men now, (no big surprise....I am assuming the idiot was a male...no offence to the good men on this site at all, of course!). Since being rescued by a good samaritan, she has really blossomed! Her requirements certainly fit perfectly into my world: good with large dogs; (have a pyr, a husky and a collie/chowX); good with cats, (I have 3!), good with older children, (well, I have no kids:p )....

I already have a husky boy, so I have an understanding of the nature and needs of the breed, and am not looking at this lightly. But, alas, I cannot help her.....

All of my pets are rescues from various local organizations and I have been asked to foster dogs by one of these groups, as I have the ideal set up and lifestyle to do so.....but I also have a jerk for a neighbour! One pet over the limit and ACC will be here for sure! He calls for anything under the sun, and not just on me! All the neighbours suffer with this jack***!!

Anyhow, I am not a hoarder....just a true pet lover and helper! If I could take in another, I surely would! But the law says "NO!"

I love your ideas, OntarioGreys...brilliant! If you don't mind, I would like to share them with a friend who sits on the Animal Welfare Taskforce which is working on bettering the lives of companion animals in London, as I believe that your post reflects something that may be pertinent to the group and their mission. Please let me know if I have permission to show this to my friend.

:thumbs up

OntarioGreys
July 10th, 2006, 05:48 PM
I love your ideas, OntarioGreys...brilliant! If you don't mind, I would like to share them with a friend who sits on the Animal Welfare Taskforce which is working on bettering the lives of companion animals in London, as I believe that your post reflects something that may be pertinent to the group and their mission. Please let me know if I have permission to show this to my friend.


Yes by all means !

lezzpezz
July 10th, 2006, 05:54 PM
Yes by all means !
I will send it off to her post haste.

By the way, I emailed the rescue group that has the husky and stated that I am interested in fostering her but the law is pretty firm. I have offered to help in other ways, be it monitary, volunteering...but my heart lies in fostering.

I know I am in the wrong line of work. I need to be with animals. I need to win the lottery to do this! I have definite dreams for when I retire, but will I have the strength and health? I just keep plugging away and daydreaming at my "real" job....and love all of my pets and the ones in the hood before and after work! with all my heart! Hey, I had 7 dogs at my house again this weekend:p Can't help myself!!:crazy:

Frenchy
July 10th, 2006, 07:44 PM
Believe it or not,there's no limit here in Sherrington.But it's the only place like this around.First of all,I disagree with the no limit.And it's weird that all around,same type of rural villages,they only permit 2 dogs.I think when you foster,it shouldn't count.You don't own the dog so it shouldn't matter.When I adopted Sam (my third) I was well aware if I ever move from here,there is not many places I could go with 3 dogs.So I guess I'm stuck here!:D

erykah1310
July 10th, 2006, 07:55 PM
There is a bylaw in Sudbury restricting the numbers too, however there was a big to do about it at first but i Havent heard anything about it for a while, and I know of a LOT of people who refused to place their pets and still have them, registered and everything and havent been bothered one bit.

Frenchy
July 10th, 2006, 08:01 PM
As long as the neighbors don't complain....

lezzpezz
July 11th, 2006, 06:47 AM
Although the task force is officially done, unofficially, they are just beginning, and your ideas, OntarioGreys, will be presented to the remaining members! Your ideas are considered great by my friend and she is happy to put these forth to the group to see what they think! I will keep you posted as to what happens with these. How fantastic is that!!??

Many thanks!

Lezzpezz