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Questioning Vitamin C supplementation

OntarioGreys
July 9th, 2006, 12:20 AM
I want to why so many raw feeders give daily vitamin C to their dogs???

And if you have informational links to support your decisions, please post links, I would appreciate

I am going to give my own reasons as to why and why not based on the info I know of , but I am always open to learning about new info

There are currently a couple situations in which I would give Ester-C [not VitaminC(ascorbic acid)] to my dogs ,

--as a therapy treatment for "existing" hip displaysia, arthritis or other joint problems like IVD

-- as a supplement for a dog undergoing chemo

--as a part of a poisonous snake bite treatment.

-- to help boost the immune system after a major surgery or injury, just on temporary basis

The reason I would choose Ester C over vitamin C, for long term use like for joint problems it is less harmful to the kidneys as it not held as long

Ester-C is molecularly locked to calcium, so it doesn't cause the acidity problems normally associated with ascorbic acid (the common form of Vitamin C), which can upset a dog's stomach. Ester-C also has natural C metabolites that get it into the cells faster and more effectively (common ascorbic acid is slower getting out of the blood serum, so it passes through the kidneys, where much of it is rapidly lost in the urine). It does not alter urinary PH


Vitamin C - I would consider for a dog that has re-occuring problems with struvite type bladder stones who urinary ph is too alkaline, because it will make the urine most acidic but I would be testing with PH strips to ensure it does not become too acidic because that can cause the formation of a harder to treat form of bladder stone.

The reason I would not use as a daily supplement for a healthy dog.

Unlike humans, a dog(and most animals) are able to produce vitamin C, A 40 lb dog is capable of producing 1000 mg of vitamin C a day,

An average 60 lb man needs about 2500- 3000 mg of vitamin C, so if we compared by equivalent body weight a dog is producing an extra 25% more C. A dog eating raw veggies would also be be getting vitamin c from the diet. So I would feel they hare more than they need already

Though I don't typically like this guys articles, though his Vitamin c discussion is written in very easy to understand language explaining why too much is harmful especially when given daily

http://home.att.net/~wdcusick/013.html

The nest was written by a person with a PHD in chemistry

http://k9joy.com/dogarticles/dogfood01vitaminC.pdf#search='dog%20vitamin%20c'

I know is is added to some dry foods including the EVO I feed, but mine don't get any added veggies or fruits, and I am stuck with the EVO until I find something else grain free and that the big guy will eat.

SnowDancer
July 9th, 2006, 10:51 AM
Too much Vitamin C in people can result in kidney stones - and "too much" for some people is say what you would get in an orange a day. My ph is extremely low - basically I am the acid queen - no stomach problems just my body chemistry and do get kidney stones - really have to watch purines and oxalic acids (maternal grandmother had gout and my feet really started to swell in my mid 20s so I altered my diet). I have been to MD allergists and doctors who deal with food problems and both told me that so many people overdo it with the Vitamin C and do get stones as a result. My friends daughter was eating 3 oranges a day, drinking a few glasses of fruit juice PLUS taking 1000 mg Vitamin C supplements - well she ended up in hospital with stones. And sadly, the same problem can happen with dogs. I have seen many books recommend Vitamin C to help dogs with joint problems, back problems etc. but not the Ester-C, the very acidic type of Vitamin C - and dogs developed bladder stones. I try to eat alkaline foods but when I have to factor in the purines problem makes things difficult. My Eskimo is prone to stones and one of my rescured mini Dachshunds came to me with 4 already formed in his bladder so am prepared - and careful. I can't even use Vitamin C serum on my face otherwise major rash.

technodoll
July 9th, 2006, 12:39 PM
since my raw girl does not eat any fruits or veggies, i do give her an esther-C tablet about 4 times per week. many akita breeders feel the added C helps with the development of healthy hips & joints (no matter the diet). it's probably not needed but i prefer being cautious... if her body doesn't need it, the extra will be discarded in her urine. i know many raw feeders who do not supplement anything except Fish Body Oil... i guess it's a personal choice. :)

OntarioGreys
July 9th, 2006, 03:30 PM
I understand about using for bone development, is is also suggested for use after ear cropping as it helps make the cartilage stronger, but once they reach a certain level of maturity the bones are no longer growing , and from what I have read it is not affective as a preventitive to hip dysplaysia,
so that extra vitamin C is now just excess which can impair vitamin D absorption with long term use, so it can actually be causing the opposite of what you are trying to prevent, in much the same way as giving a dog thyroid meds who does not need it, can cause the thyroid gland to stop functioning all together.

If there was info or documantation that could prove it is not harmful then maybe I could be less concerned about feeding EVO, which is one of the reasons I am asking , right now I am adding in other kibbles with grains to Nikki and Maya meals to cut down the Vitamin C but with Sunny I can't as the only other kibble options currently here is Natural Balances Allergy formulas and he does not like them. I am seriously thinking about asking the store to order in "barking at the Moon" but having done before, I know it can create big headaches with availability, since they only bring in small amounts of a new food so there is a risk of running out before more comes in. With EVO there is enough demand to keep enough in stock at all times