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was attacked by a small dog

Rottielover
July 4th, 2006, 05:10 PM
Hey guys, I am doing ok, but my foot is in alot of pain. This morning I was putting all the dogs out, and there is one very iffy terrier mix. Grab by collar, get bit. Anyways, I let him walk outside on his own.
He was almost outside when I realized there was a crate open with left over food, so I went and shut it. Well he lunged at my leg. I moved him back, (stupid could have got bit in face ), he lunged at my foot again, this time shaking my toe in his mouth.
Needless to say I have a pretty large hole in my toes, and skin missing around it.
History of this dog, SPCA 3 times, this is fourth owner. She said he was aggressive. Now with an actual bite history. Not fear driven. What would you suggest. Personally if it was my dog after seeing, and being biten by him, he would be PTS NOW.
I have to tell this woman on thursday about what happened, and I will show her the wound.
she is a client, so I have to be nice, but let me tell you, I am no longer dealing with him

Frenchy
July 4th, 2006, 05:40 PM
the owner could take obedience classes,If that dog changed owners 4 times,he thinks he has to do his things his way.He needs a leader,just my opinion.Hope you are ok!Good thing it's a small dog.

Rottielover
July 4th, 2006, 06:08 PM
That dog is unstable, he has seen a behaviourst, as well as been in OB class. she has had him for 4 months, and has tried to bite her on 2 different occassions. Not only that she has a young child:mad:

Frenchy
July 4th, 2006, 06:18 PM
Ouch!And she isn't afraid for her kid?:confused: I don't like to say this but maybe it would be best if he was pts.If he was a big dog,it would already been done.:sad:

erykah1310
July 4th, 2006, 09:45 PM
I too think that perhaps that dog needs to be pts, just cause hes small doesnt mean he cant and wont seriously injure someone. IMO he isnt a happy dog, and is prolly suffering mentally?!?!?!?!
Sometimes the saddest outcome is the better one.

Prin
July 4th, 2006, 10:59 PM
pts for one bite? :rolleyes: Maybe he's just food aggressive, in which case you can work with him to fix that or just avoid the situation if you're not inclined to fix it. I know so many dogs who would bite if they were in a setting with a bunch of other dogs and there was food around. Not something to kill a dog over, IMO.

Being bitten while working in a kennel is not unexpected either. Did you get any training in managing aggressive dogs?

Just because the woman says he's aggressive doesn't mean he's unfixably aggressive. Trying to bite her unsuccessfully 2 times to me isn't what makes an aggressive dog. :confused: Actually biting her is another thing. I think all dogs can warn with sort of ghost bites if they think it'll work on the person (i.e. if the person is even slightly submissive to the dog and then becomes demanding all of a sudden).

Jemma was aggressive when we got her and with good leadership and lots of training and desensitizing, she's perfectly unaggressive now.

And it's not like this guy sought you out for no reason at all. He was protecting the food. No?

Rottielover
July 5th, 2006, 05:56 AM
there was no food to protect. It was in another cage, that I was trying to close the door. I have dealt with aggressive dogs before, and ones that are mentally unstable. This dog will be happy go lucky one second, and then he growls at you for NO reason. The only reason he did not actually bite this woman was her husband grabbed him before he could.
He is not food aggressive, I have been near his food bowl while eating.
He is also on some kind of medication to calm him down. Does not help though.
Even another person at the kennel was saying this dog has a screw loose, and was just a matter of time until he attacked someone. I am just lucky he did not go for my face when I had to bend over to push him away.
If this was a large dog with they way he attacked, I would have been dead.

badger
July 5th, 2006, 06:16 AM
Medications given to calm dogs down often seem to not work at all or actually aggravate things. Given that human-grade tranquilizers often do the same (create the opposite effect), one wonders why...
That being said, if I had an aggressive dog and there was nothing else, I'd probably try it, but watch the animal like a hawk. Poor doggie.
Rottielover, where are you anyway? Have you run away from home :)
Try to keep that foot dry, constant moisture will prevent it from healing. If it must be covered, bind it as lightly as possible (Nurse Ratchett, au travail..)

LM1313
July 5th, 2006, 07:52 AM
It sounds to me like he thinks feet are something fun to play with, the way cats will instinctively pounce on fingers/toes unless they're taught not to. Maybe he's just never had an owner that taught him "no" and redirected his behavior. Going through four owners, he probably feels very insecure about the stability of the world and has decided to take charge . . . and people often give small dogs more leeway than big dogs because "awww him so cwute." Putting a dog to sleep for one bite is going way overboard, IMO.

Frenchy
July 5th, 2006, 11:39 AM
The dog was return 3 times at the spca (maybe because he bite someone) ,has a bite history,took obedience classes and was seen by a behavior specialist,maybe the first owner could have done something to help the dog but I'm with Erykah,the dog is not happy.

Prin
July 5th, 2006, 03:39 PM
Wait- how did he bite your toe? Were you working in a kennel in sandals?

coppperbelle
July 5th, 2006, 04:13 PM
It is really unfortunate but sometimes dogs are just not right in the head. It could be from something that happened in a previous home or a birth defect. It could also be a health issue. Who does this dog belong to now? Are you dog sitting?

I hope your foot feels better soon. I was bitten on my hand once and it hurt like hang.

Rottielover
July 5th, 2006, 04:57 PM
I was about to start cleaning the kennels outside, which requires a hose, so I changed into my waterprrof sandals so I did not ruin my sneaks....Anyways prin, that is not the problem, the problem was, he first went after my leg, only scratched the surface, then came back and got a hold of my toe and shook it...Like dogs do when killing its prey. I was trying to get him back in the kennel, he almost got my arm too, but managed to slam the crate door first.
Even the kennel owner believes he has a screw loose. The owner comes in tomorrow morning, And I will be speaking to her.
I had to put down a dog because he was aggressive. Read bears story, I know exactly what to look for based on going to so many different behaviourists years ago. What he did was not defensive, it was offensive.
I am not a specialist, but have been studying dogs behaviour for years. After and during bear. That dog SHOULD not be alowed anywhere near kids, or people. One min he is a sweetie who wants loving, the next min he is growling at you.
It is too hard to explain on here, BUT believe me I do not take this lightly..
Thanks Prin for caring about sandals

OntarioGreys
July 5th, 2006, 05:44 PM
He could have rage syndrome which could produce bizarre behaviour at unexplainable times, let the owner know what happened at recommend she take the dog to a behaviourist for a assessment, yuou can provide some names for her, the owner may not view your opinion as being impartial being that the dog bit you. Obviously the owner is trying to do good by this pet by the fact that it is on medication, she is obviously aware he has problems and I am sure even you know how difficult it is to make the decision to euthanize is, especially if it is the first time you are faced with this, I sure have not forgotten the pain , grief and stalling I did with Hobie, but when the second time with Brody it was tough but by then I had accepted it was the right and necessary thing to do so did not drag it out like I did with Hobie :( And I hope I am never faced with that kind of decision again in the future, but even if I am faced with a dog that behaviour problems again I will still do a medical and behavioural assessment first just to be 100% sure that I have made the right decision
and of course you can refuse to deal with him in the future,

Rottielover
July 5th, 2006, 05:48 PM
She is still seeing a behaviourist. I am not the one to make the descision on allowing him or not. Owner of kennel is. I just no longer deal with him. I found out from kennel owner that he has nipped her too.
The owner told us not to do certain things with him or he will bite, so we did not do those things. But what I did had nothing to do with what she told us to watch out for. I hope she realizes that her child is at risk, which I am the most scared about. her daughter is 3 1/2.
Harley was at the kennel, I am glad he was in a den, or that poor dog would have met his doom. Harley was freaking when her heard the growling, and me yelping

Prin
July 5th, 2006, 06:17 PM
I had to put down a dog because he was aggressive. Read bears story, I know exactly what to look for based on going to so many different behaviourists years ago. What he did was not defensive, it was offensive.
I am not a specialist, but have been studying dogs behaviour for years. After and during bear. That dog SHOULD not be alowed anywhere near kids, or people. One min he is a sweetie who wants loving, the next min he is growling at you.So if you know everything, why did you ask for opinions?

OntarioGreys
July 5th, 2006, 06:21 PM
Yikes, really young child!!!

Maybe strongly recommend a basket muzzle, to the owner and including to the head of the kennel, the dog can still eat and drink with it on but at least it won't be able to do serious injury, the muzzle should be left on at all times unless it is crated

Rottielover
July 5th, 2006, 06:29 PM
Ok Prin enough with the attitude. NO WHERE did I write that I knew everything. I was asking opinions on PTS. If you do not want to write, do not. DID NOT ask you for your sole opinion.
I just stated that since my first dog had to be PTS due to aggression, I have been to behaviourists, and have been doing research. Thank you......
What I said was I knew what to look for with an aggressive dog. Not a fear biter, not a timid dog, but one doing so out of aggression.
Maybe I should have worded it differently, But I know what I meant.
Oh ya, I forgot to add, I made a mistake, she has had him for 1 year, not 4 months, he is 4 years old.

jesse's mommy
July 5th, 2006, 06:45 PM
I was asking opinions on PTS.

Not to be mean, but it's not really your decision since it's not your dog. The only thing you can really suggest is to the owner of the kennel to not allow this dog back for boarding. Other than that, you can give suggestions to the owner of the dog, but in reality it's not going to do much until the dog does something to someone they care about. Sorry to be so blunt, but that is the reality of life and human nature. They probably aren't going to really care that the dog bit you.

Rottielover
July 5th, 2006, 06:57 PM
Ok, lets start over here. What would people suggest for me to do with the owner. I know I will be telling her what happened. ( most likely I will be blamed ) that is how she is, But how would you suggest I deal with it. PTS was if it was my dog, I know very well I can not just go to her and say your dog is nuts, put him down. That just would not work. How do you suggest I deal with the client tomorrow. That is all I was really asking, and then everything went up in the air.
Quote" She said he was aggressive. Now with an actual bite history. Not fear driven. What would you suggest. Personally if it was my dog after seeing, and being biten by him, he would be PTS NOW. end of quote "

jesse's mommy
July 5th, 2006, 07:01 PM
I think all you can do is talk to the kennel owner and give her/him your recommendations about this dog and not allow them to return. It's actually up to the kennel owner since they are the ones who are liable, not you. I'm not saying to push the problem on someone else, but because it's not someone who you are in direct relations (as in a close friend or family) it's not really up to you to say anything. You just work at the kennel, you don't own it or have the responsibility of keeping up the reputation of it. It's an unfortunate situation, but all you can really do is document your concerns.

Writing4Fun
July 5th, 2006, 08:42 PM
As the person who was bitten, you should be filing a report with your local authorities or hospital (make sure to mention that there is a young child in the home with the dog :eek: ), the dog should be taken in for an evaluation by a professional (the local SPCA or similar) and they should be the ones to decide whether or not the dog is pts. The owner should cooperate, but it's really not up to her, either, whether or not the dog gets put down. A dog with a bite history is bound by certain laws, isn't it?

Hope your toe gets better soon, Rottielover. :pawprint:

jesse's mommy
July 5th, 2006, 09:15 PM
But if this was done at work the proper chain of command is to go through the owner of the kennel and file a workman's comp claim. Then it's up to the owner and you to work together in deciding if there should be a claim filed with the authorities. You work in a kennel. You are exposed to the possibility of a bite from strange dogs everyday. This is a liability to the job you have. It's not some strange dog that charged you on the street. Since this is an accident that occurred at your place of employment -- that kennels dogs -- you need to follow those procedures. I don't think the same "rules" apply to someone who works in a kennel as to someone who was just randomly attacked on the street. You need to file the appropriate complaint/paperwork with your employer first and they will work with you on the proper procedures.

poodletalk
July 11th, 2006, 04:35 PM
You must give this women credit for really loving her dog considering it's aggression problems.

What I would suggest is for the women to take the dog to St.Hyasthinths(sp)
(The Vet. Hospital) they have a vet their Dr.Diane Frank who specializes in behavorial problems. What she does is, she analyzies the dog for a 24 hours.

She will give the dog blood tests after it eats to see if the aggression is a "chemical emblance" due to the food he's eating. She will also put the dog through certain situations. Before going to her, you have to fill out a questionaire about the dog.

After the 24 hour period, she will give you a breakdown about your dog and the scale of aggression your dog has. Certain cases, she will recommend some herbs or some type of medication. Other cases, she will say your dog is a danger to society and it must be put to sleep.


I am really tierd today, sorry about the spelling mistakes................

By the way, I hope your foot is feeling better.

LL1
July 11th, 2006, 06:05 PM
Are you allowed to wear sandals when working in a kennel?Glad you are ok,but hope you did get medical attention.Bites can be really bad.I did not know you euthanized your other dog,I thought you gave her away for behavioral issues?Im sorry to hear that.I think the suggestions of a behaviorist are good,I hope the family will do that.Speaking with the owner of the kennel about the incident also is a good idea.I know many people look at bites at kennels and groomers and vets a bit differently than a strange dog on the street seeking you out to bite you.

Rottielover
July 11th, 2006, 06:52 PM
My first dog bear was PTS due to aggression issues. my second rescue was placed in the correct home for what she needed, and is now very happy. Poodletalk When the woman came in to take her dog hom, I was the one who spoke to her. I was up all night the night before thinking to myself. How would I like to hear the news. I finally spoke to her. She is already seeing the Dr.Diane Frank. she said she was amazing. But the littliest things set him off. The wired wrong was the exact wording that she used. That's how I explained his temperment to her.
When I told her what her dog did to me, and how he was offensive not deffensive, she was bringing him right back to see the DR. I also told her that the medication that he was on, might be making it worse instead of better.
I applaud this woman for doing everything that she has been doing with him. My worry was for the child.
I put myself in her shoes when I was told what bear was like. It destroyed me. I did not want to be too harsh with her, but I did want her to know the extent of the behaviour issues.
By the way the foot is healing well. I actually used bleach and water to clean it. Hurt like hell, but damn well did the trick.
No I was not allowed to wear sandals, but my sneakers were ruined and I had to buy another pair.

poodletalk
July 11th, 2006, 07:08 PM
If she's already seeing Dr.Frank, she's seeing the best possible person and she's paying a pretty penny to go see her. (There's a very big waiting list to see her and you need to be recommended by your regular vet.)

If Dr.Frank gave her the medication for the dog, it's not the medication that's making him worst, maybe it needs to be adjusted.(Maybe he needs more; or he needs abit less) The dog has to go have routine blood tests to make sure everything is in balance.

Dr.Frank takes inconsideration the dogs life style, if he's around children, cats etc. She wouldn't let an 100% aggressive dog with a child, she would recommend other alternatives.

I never went to see Dr.Frank, but I heard great things about her through my vet and when I went to see another behavorlist for my husky she was one of his proffesors for behavorial. The dog is in very good hands with her, I am very impressed that she's going.



By the way, if you are cleaning out kennels with a hose, I wouldn't recommend that you wear running shoes, they will get wet and your feet will get calaces (sp)YOu should buy yourself a pair of bellyboots! :rolleyes:

Prin
July 11th, 2006, 10:34 PM
from post 13:
I was about to start cleaning the kennels outside, which requires a hose, so I changed into my waterprrof sandals so I did not ruin my sneaks....

From post #26
No I was not allowed to wear sandals, but my sneakers were ruined and I had to buy another pair.
Aw, you ruined them anyway?

I hope all this help helps the doggy though this.

Rottielover
July 12th, 2006, 05:12 AM
ruined as in at home alittle someone decided to chew them, not because the hose. If that was the case believe me, I would have worn them. But Harley had fun and decided to rip them to shreds. My fault I left them out. Either way I have a new pair now, and am wearing them to work, but we have no more problematic dogs