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Dog whisperer.

Suzan
July 2nd, 2006, 05:28 PM
Anyone know what satellite station , time and day the Dog Whisperer is on TV? I have been looking for him and not been able to find it. I have Bell expressvue.
Suzan

Prin
July 2nd, 2006, 05:29 PM
I have star choice, so I don't know the number, but it's on the national geographic channel. I hope you take his teachings with a grain of salt though... A lot of people disagree strongly with his methods.

t.pettet
July 2nd, 2006, 09:23 PM
Bell Expressview channel 524, sunday's at 5:00 and 10:00 p.m. Enjoy.

Suzan
July 2nd, 2006, 09:24 PM
Thanks Prin. Found it on tonight. Now I can watch and decide what I think of it.

Brooklyn'sDad
July 8th, 2006, 01:54 PM
What did you think of the show?

What is it about his methods that people don't like?

Just got a puppy and I've heard alot about him.

Puppyluv
July 8th, 2006, 02:58 PM
http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=27772&highlight=whisperer

Prin
July 9th, 2006, 12:42 AM
Yup, see that thread.. ;)

SnowDancer
July 9th, 2006, 10:56 AM
A trainer I know watched the show and was interested in his interactions with the dogs' owners and their reasons for why the dogs exhibit certain behaviours not to their liking. I can't get the channel, but certainly I fall into the category of someone who feels that dogs have the same emotions as humans - if not more so. I find dogs to be more caring and considerate than most people - and they can sure laugh (at me) and cry. I know the Dog Whisperer would disagree with me - but that is fine. My dog loves me - now if only he weren't so stubborn.

Prin
July 9th, 2006, 12:56 PM
Yeah, but the dog whisperer doesn't even see the fear that he instills in the dogs he "trains" so chances are he won't see much else as far as emotion goes either...

lewisw
July 10th, 2006, 06:57 AM
hmmmm I guess it's not available on Videotron's Illico ?
I did a search for the show and did not see any listings for it.
I wanted to see what it is all about.
maybe I need to get a dish.

Lewis

coppperbelle
July 10th, 2006, 08:54 PM
The show is on the National Geographic station. It doesn't seem to have a regular time slot as I have caught it on Friday and Saturday evenings.
I think a lot of what he says makes sense. I can see how his training methods may not appeal to everyone but he has saved many dogs from being given up or being euthanized. His methods may seem harsh but when you look at the alternative...

kaytris
July 10th, 2006, 09:28 PM
Why must it be 'euthanization or Cesar Millan?" Pat Miller, Jean Donaldson, Brenda Aloff and Patricia McConnell, among many, many other positive reinforcement trainers, have saved countless dogs too - and without resorting to punitive methods that supress, not modify, behaviour.

willingheart
July 13th, 2006, 12:18 AM
I have to say that I love the Dog Whisperer, and it seems like the people who are criticizing his work either don't understand it or haven't watched his show.

The two most important aspects of his philosophy are about the attitude of the owner and the fact that many behavior problems in dogs are caused by obsession.

I agree completely that the owner's attitude has a lot of impact on a dog's behavior. If the owner feels like they are in charge (that they are the pack leader), the dog is much more likely to respond to the owner's desires. For example, people who think they can't get their dogs to stop barking, very likely can't get their dogs to stop barking. Dogs want somebody to be in charge. And, if the owner isn't in charge, most dogs are stressed by trying to be in charge themselves - stressed to the point of unpredictable and obsessive behavior. Dogs naturally want to please an owner they respect.

I don't think the Dog Whisperer's technique is punitive at all. If you listen to what he's saying, the times he "taps" a dog's hindquarter, it is only with the intention of distracting them from their obsession. He thinks, and I've seen a lot of evidence to support, that much of dogs' misbehaviors are based on them focusing on a distraction and they can't stop themselves. This is obsession. He teaches three main techniques for distracting dogs from their obsession. First, a sound (his is "CH"), then a quick jerk of the leash, then tapping the hindquarter with your foot. None of these techniques are intended to be punitive, they are all meant to be distractors. None of them are done in a pain-inducing or harmful way.

I can't believe anybody would dare to suggest that Cesar Milan does not love dogs. He has 40 of them himself!! He rescues them and works with them every day. He is a strong pack leader, and his dogs are clearly very happy and healthy. They respect his authority and seem very secure and balanced. He would never hurt a dog. If you don't know that, you should watch his shows more, or stop talking like you know what you're talking about. He is a loving person with a beautiful soul who has devoted his life to dogs living happily and with balance.

The main thing that the Dog Whisperer promotes to every owner is walking your dog every day. He thinks the exercise is important, but even more important is the opportunity to "follow" their pack leader. He sees walking your dog as a way to enhance your position as the respectable leader. He sees it as an opportunity to be in charge (i.e. keep the dog close and under control, not running free on a long line). He also sees it as an antidote to dogs' obsession. Their natural desire to walk and follow is very balancing to them.

Watching the Dog Whisperer was a big part of my motivation to get a dog. I saw an opportunity to develop a strong relationship and wonderful bond. Knowing I am in control and that my dog obeys me is hugely reassuring to me. We have a very healthy relationship that I cherish. He completely trusts me because I am consistent, leaderful, and in charge.

I really love the Dog Whisperer. I had to write because I passionately believe that his philosophy and techniques are logical and empowering. I highly recommend his shows to anybody who has a dog.

jesse's mommy
July 13th, 2006, 05:11 AM
willingheart, did you know he is being sued for animal abuse by more than on person? Yes I said it, there are lawsuits against him for his methods. Read the link puppyluv posted above and you can get some more insight and not just the "edited for TV" version you see.

coppperbelle
July 13th, 2006, 06:21 AM
I did some searching and found that yes he is being sued by two people. One is for an incidence where a labrador was tied to a tread mill and injured badly. Cesar was not there at the time however they were using his methods. The dog was obviously not being supervised while on the tread mill.
The other lawsuit is in regards to him going to a tv network to promote his show and has nothing to do with harming an animal.
These were the only two lawsuits I could find.
I am not trying to defend the man only to say that I would not base my opinions on one lawsuit especially when he wasn't present at the time.

Puppyluv
July 13th, 2006, 06:33 AM
hmm maybe if his "taps" were just that, than ok.. but they're not. I have never in my life seen someone "wind up" for a tap, like he does. These are not taps, they are kicks, and kicks are punitive.

kaytris
July 13th, 2006, 07:55 AM
I'm always amazed (and saddened) when anyone that criticizes Millan is met with cries of 'you just don't understand! he loves dogs! he's the saviour of many doomed dogs!"

Folks, this is TELEVISION. It's edited, pared down highlights of his training methods. Yes, he's good looking, he knows the right things to say - he's got a very impressive PR presence. But is he a good trainer?

In my opinion, no. He utilizes punitive methods which many trainers have moved past, and worst of all are his methods of dealing with fear. Flooding is an AWFUL way to deal with a phobia.

If you look at the promotional picture below, you see him with a pack of happy dogs, right? Look closely at each dog... the two pitbulls are offering appeasement gestures (lip licking, dropping head down for a sniff), all of the dogs have their ears pinned back and none of them looked relaxed and happy (ears forward, heads up) to be up for a run. If you know what to look for, you can see this time and again in the show.
http://www.dogpsychologycenter.com/images/ng-channel_sm2.jpg

Prin
July 13th, 2006, 08:46 AM
Exactly Kaytris! So often the body language of the dogs is either very suspicious or very afraid (most often afraid) and that is not something you want in your dog. You don't want your dog to obey out of fear.

Sure, he wasn't there when the treadmill was running, but people see the show and send their dogs to him. He is responsible for them, regardless of if he's training them or not. Like if you bring your car to a mechanic and the head guy makes an apprentice do the work and your car bursts into flames as a result, the head guy takes responsibility because he's the one with the reputation to uphold. Problem is, in the case of the dog whisperer, people who watch tv are too gullible and clueless (on the whole, no offense to anybody ;)) to research a bit and find out about not only the lawsuit, but also appropriate dog body language and appropriate training techniques.

willingheart
July 13th, 2006, 12:19 PM
I can't believe you're making an argument for his techniques based on a promo photo. Remember, this is television!>?!? They probably had to try that shot over and over again.

I still don't believe he is kicking any dogs, but believe whatever you want to. The times he taps the dogs are very rare and in very obsessed cases.

And the lawsuit!?!? Hello! We live in a totally lawsuit happy society. Anybody who runs a business is likely to be sued for something. It doesnt' mean they're at fault. It doesn't even mean they lose the case. People like to blame somebody!

mafiaprincess
July 13th, 2006, 12:52 PM
The promo pic was an example. Most of the people here have watched the show and been horrified by it. You seem to be making a case based on what sucks everyone in who knows little about dog behaviour. You need a better arguement. So far it's just whiny.

LM1313
July 13th, 2006, 01:33 PM
And the lawsuit!?!? Hello! We live in a totally lawsuit happy society. Anybody who runs a business is likely to be sued for something. It doesnt' mean they're at fault. It doesn't even mean they lose the case. People like to blame somebody!

The lawsuit was due to a dog being put on a treadmill, tied to it with a choke chain, and left alone until it collapsed from exhaustion, nearly killing it.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12648003/

Hours after dropping off the dog, Suarez said, a worker called to tell him the animal had been rushed to a veterinarian. Suarez later found the dog “bleeding from his mouth and nose, in an oxygen tent gasping for breath and with severe bruising to his back inner thighs,” according to the lawsuit.


Tell me, who do you think is at fault if not the training facility?

I would be much more lenient on Cesar himself if he had apologized profusely to the dog's owner, paid all his vet costs, and paid for the emotional distress caused to the dog and owner, but the article ends with the damning "calls were not returned" statement. Even assuming the treadmill-with-choke-chain isn't a Cesar approved training method--which we have no proof for or against--if this man loves animals so much, wouldn't paying the vet bills for this poor dog be the first thing he'd do? That's just common decency.

willingheart
July 13th, 2006, 02:15 PM
I am horrified to hear that the accident with the dog on the treadmill happened at the Dog Psychology Center. That is a terrible accident, and I hope that the proper restitution will be decided in court, not on this forum.

I still don't think that proves that he is abusive or that his philosophy is wrong. Talk about bad arguments...your only argument is that *you know about dog behavior* and you can tell from the body language of the dogs on the television that you otherwise don't trust the accuracy of.

I didn't come onto this forum to be insulted. I replied to this post because I have been inspired by Cesar Milan's work. If you haven't, so be it, but leave me alone, and don't make arguments about how terrible he is based on watching one or two shows with an obvious bias. I've watched every show and never seen an example of abuse or lack of caring. Go figure. Two different perspectives --- part of what makes the world an interesting place.

I think we need to agree to disagree. You think he's an abusive brute and a fraud apparently. I think he's a caring individual with an interesting philosophy that I've seen work, and that seems to make sense to me.

Mrs Bungle
July 13th, 2006, 02:46 PM
I have to admit, as much as its a horrible thing that that poor dog almost died because of the treadmill thing.. HOW LONG would you leave your dog doing something like this before you said "Hey yknow what, little Sparky doenst look so well maybe we should take him off of this for a while?" Would it come to the point of nose bleeding and such ? Give me a break.. At that point its just like, your just a stupid person. I dont know enough about "dog behaviour" to really say I know for sure hes bad or good, (and yes ive seen the shows) but if you were a trainer and you suggested something, and there person didnt excersise common sense then they are at fault not the trainer. Ultimately its your dog, you know it best.

And as for that picture, isnt it true that if you tie a dog to a leash and get it to pull you it puts its head down and ears down? Isnt that what humans do when they are pulling something?

Prin
July 13th, 2006, 02:49 PM
willingheart, we're not just basing it on one ad. That was just a perfect example. I saw the episode where he booted the dog and the dog looked so betrayed. If you see that episode and tell me you can't tell anything from the dog's behavior and body language, there isn't more I can say (except maybe that you need a refresher course on dog body language, maybe).

LM1313
July 13th, 2006, 02:53 PM
but if you were a trainer and you suggested something, and there person didnt excersise common sense then they are at fault not the trainer. Ultimately its your dog, you know it best.


But this wasn't the owner of the dog leaving it on the treadmill. This was the dog going to a training facility and being left there by the workers. Whether Cesar supports leaving an unattended dog on a treadmill or not (which is stupid, I agree), the fact is the business, which he owns, is responsible for the actions of its employees, as they're the ones who hired them.

Just like Jack-in-the-Box here was sued after a bunch of people got salmonella from undercooked hamburgers. J-i-t-B couldn't just say, "Oh, it wasn't our fault, why don't you sue the individual workers?" THEY hired and trained the workers, THEY raked in the profits from the burgers and fries sold by said workers, and thus it was their responsiblity.

Mrs Bungle
July 13th, 2006, 02:57 PM
Man thats pretty stupid, I didnt realize that it was at his training facility... Maybe in that case he needs to start screening his employees a little better (or hes just an idiot and allowed it) we will probably never know.

willingheart
July 15th, 2006, 05:45 PM
So, let's see, I'm supposed to believe that Cesar Millan is abusive and doesn't understand dog behavior because:

1) You say so, and you are a dog behavior expert
2) He's involved in two law suits (one of which appears to be related to a technique that he recommends)
3) He "winds up" to kick dogs, which you can tell by the "look on the dog's face"
4) His methods are punitive according to you, though you don't acknowledge understanding what he says his intention is (which is not punitive but distracting)
5) A promo photo shows dogs with their ears back, looking unhappy.

And my arguments are whiney? All I did was try to explain his philosophies and why they make sense to me, so people reading this thread don't jump to the conclusion that you're right.

I don't KNOW I'm right. I think it would take a lot more hands-on experience and evidence to be closer to absolutely sure. What I resent is your treating me like I'm an idiot because I disagree with you. You don't KNOW you're right either. I love that bumper sticker: Minds are like parachutes. They operate best when open.

This also got me to wondering where you stand on horse training. I'm pretty sure lots of people kick their horses to get them to gallop, and many even use a whip! Is that punitive? Abusive? Can you tell from the horses' faces that they're unhappy when they're being forced to run?

Puppyluv
July 15th, 2006, 06:00 PM
"3) He "winds up" to kick dogs, which you can tell by the "look on the dog's face""

The First half was from me, but the second half was from something and someone else entirely.. don't cut and paste as you like. It's called a misquote, and it won't support your case.

That being said, many of the people here have either talked to, or seen interviews of other professional dog trainers on their oppinions on Caeser. I know one trainer who is by no means "gentle" and "lovey-dovey", but is disgusted by the tactics thst Caeser uses. You actually can read the dog over the tv, and those who are around enough of them (esp. the rescues) know what body language says "I'm scared", and they see it a lot on his show.

You can think that Caeser is great if you want to, but I feel bad for any pet that you decide to subject to his training methods.

mafiaprincess
July 15th, 2006, 06:46 PM
Behaviourists need degrees. He has nothing. Would you trust your vet not to have a degree? How about your child's teacher?

The people who seem to push how great he is are the ones who have issues potty training a dog. Doesn't say much on how much dog knowledge they have to be basing anything on how 'great' he apparently is. On the other forums I visit the most clueless people are the ones who are the most star struck.

Sure he has some good points. The negative seems to outweigh them though. If you think intimidating bullying and scaring a dog is a great way to train it, good for you, you send your dog there. The rest of us will keep our dog's mentally intact.

Doesn't take that much looking to find better trainers with non abusive methods.

meb999
July 15th, 2006, 07:36 PM
I don't KNOW I'm right. I think it would take a lot more hands-on experience and evidence to be closer to absolutely sure. What I resent is your treating me like I'm an idiot because I disagree with you. You don't KNOW you're right either. I love that bumper sticker: Minds are like parachutes. They operate best when open.


First of all, I've read this thread over and over, and I haven't seen anyone call you or treat you like idiot.

I find it speaks volumes on Ceasar Milan that the rescuers on this site (who are around ALOT of stressed out doggies, and abused doggies) think that his methods are way too harsh.

I don't disagree with everything Ceasar says, like everything in life, it isn't black or white. Ceasar isn't an ALL bad or ALL good trainer. I think it's great that he encourages people to actually take the time to walk their dogs. That putting them in the backyard and letting them exercise themselves isn't enough.
But then I've watched an episode where he put a choke chain on a terrified dog (who kept hiding under a table) and drag him out. How is that supposed to make a scared dog better? It's like trying to beat the fear outta someone...it doesn't work.

Behaviourists need degrees. He has nothing. Would you trust your vet not to have a degree? How about your child's teacher?

Doesn't take that much looking to find better trainers with non abusive methods.

I completely agree! If your vet was good at detecting certain illnesses, but not others....would you take your sick dog to him and hope for the best?

willingheart
July 15th, 2006, 11:38 PM
First, I was not quoting anybody; I was paraphrasing.

I've taken what everybody has said to heart. I hope that all the time and energy I've put into this discussion has given open minded people something to think about as well.

My dog is very calm submissive and very low energy. I'm guessing a lot of peoples' dogs are. I do not need to even consider using most of Cesar Millan's more drastic training measures, because they are specifically intended for dogs with behavior problems, domination problems, and obsessions. I use a sound and my dog stops in his tracks. I am very happy with my relationship with my dog.

I think Cesar Millan's philosophies are really interesting. I see that they are mostly about the attitude of the owner. I firmly believe that what I have learned from his shows and incorporated into my own ways of being has greatly contibuted to my satisfying relationship with my dog. I hope to continue to learn and be open to new ideas.

Please don't discount or insult my happy relationship with my dog because I have taken to heart some of Cesar Millan's philosophies.

puppy4ever
July 16th, 2006, 05:59 PM
I just watched one of his shows the other day for the first time & thought he had some very interesting advice about imaging how you want your walk to go...and about projecting that. He also mentioned something about information traveling around the doggie neighborhood, etc. I thought it was quite fascinating.

I did notice the guy has quite the ego though and he seemed to really overexplain his "tap" for some reason. He does indeed project strong leadership but wonder if dogs fear him rather than respect him....guess we'll never know.

I'm glad I didn't see the choke collar episode...

Prin
July 16th, 2006, 11:40 PM
In the other thread about the whisperer, I said how what he says is GREAT but what he does doesn't reflect what he says at all. If you learn from what he says, fine. But don't do as he does, IMO, if you don't want your dog to fear you instead of respecting you.

The dog whisperer's philosophies do not equal his practices.

puppy4ever
July 17th, 2006, 11:36 PM
what he says is GREAT but what he does doesn't reflect what he says at all.

Sounds like a lot of people in my life recently! :p

I don't think I'd go with his training style...think it would produce negative results. My trainer is a very loving & soft - she has had success with other dogs...unfortunately my dog may be the exception. :evil:

In general there is no reason to be harsh (that will be the term I'll use anyway) when being mild/loving & using lots of praise works.

MyBirdIsEvil
July 20th, 2006, 12:35 AM
I watch Cesar's show a lot and have just read his book, which has some great advice.
No I don't agree with EVERYTHING he says, but his book seemed to have a lot of valid points and went into more detail on some subjects (such as dominance, which is a problem in one of my dogs) than most training stuff I've read. Also, a lot of the tips have worked well on my dog (no I don't use any of the harsher methods stated in the thread).
His book mostly just talks about staying calm while trying to train your dog, and controlling it's enviroment so that it learns to respect you and knows what is expected of it so that the dog doesn't get confused.
It also talks about how many owners forget that their dogs are dogs and try to treat them like humans such as giving unclear commands (like letting the dog out of the front door first and yelling at it for running up the street, while wondering why it won't come back.)
All in all I always take training information with a grain of salt (everyone has their own methods and opinions), and never utilize information that I personally find unethical, but I don't discount ALL advice from someone just because I don't find all their opinions to my liking (though if some of you personally find him abusive I don't fault you for not giving him your money or time :).
Btw, I'm not saying it's not true, but I've never seen him kick a dog on his television show (though I may have a short attention span, lol) , every show I've seen has had useful advice.

t.pettet
July 20th, 2006, 09:19 PM
I haven't witnessed any acts of cruelty that Cesar has administered, he taps the dog with his foot to retrieve its attention, have never seen a wind-up kick and all his methods seem to work, they're a fast turn-around for some dogs that have been uncontrollable for most of their long lives. These dogs are given a chance to turn their lives around and enjoy more structure, exercise and positive attention. I can't see trying to handle a 80 lb. frenzied, aggressive dog with any other methods. The owners are given simple consistent training that enable them to control and better understand their dog's needs.

Prin
July 21st, 2006, 01:12 AM
I never said anywhere that there was a wind up.... ;)

But did you see the dog's face when he "tapped" it? It's like a "what the hey did you do that for, you a**? What did I ever do to you?" kind of face. I saw him "tap" a bulldog- he calls it tapping or "distracting" but the dog's hiney moves. Ever try moving a bulldog around? Not easy.

There are other ways of maintaining a dog's focus than tapping him in the a** with your foot..

Golden Girls
July 21st, 2006, 08:11 AM
I watched both shows when Cesar Milan helped Oprah with her dog Sophie's (Cocker) both people and dog aggression as well as the one where he helped Decorator Nate Berkus's dogs Emma and Henry where one was leash aggression while the other had a barking problem.

From what I learned watching these shows it was very useful and actually the day I did met Jiorji I was using his methods on trying to get Misti to focus on me rather then her usual dragging me everywhere. I only stopped to speak with her because I thought she thought I was being mean and felt to explain what I was doing. The whole scene was actually funny but I did learn something from watching those shows and since then it has worked wonderfully.

That being said I have not watched his TV show so I cannot comment where most members say they were horrified by his methods. The lawsuit is pending so I have to agree with Willingheart when he quoted "we hope the proper restitution will be decided in court and not on this forum".

I like you would never use any unethical advice but I found again from only the Oprah show he focused more on the attitude of the owners.

MyBirdIsEvil
July 21st, 2006, 02:17 PM
There are other ways of maintaining a dog's focus than tapping him in the a** with your foot..

This is true, but I guess it depends on what tools you have with you. A can of pennies works well (sometimes) for distracting my chow mix, but if I had nothing with me or she wasn't responding to the pennies I would probably tap her on the butt or smack her on the butt with her leash.
Also it depends on the dog I suppose. If my chow mix is fixated on something almost nothing works, you can run at her, clap your hands, snap your fingers, stomp, yell, etc. she'll just ignore you. She's also a dog that can pull the leash out of my hands or pull me over if I let her, so distracting her quickly is essential.
My collie however, if I were to get physical with him, he would probably put his tail between his legs and lay down in fear, all he needs to get his attention is a snap of the fingers or a whistle, even speaking to him in a firm voice scares him. Dogs like him aren't the ones I've seen on the dog whisperer though, because I'd guess they're less likely to have obedience problems.