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Divorce and Pets

Copper'sMom
June 20th, 2006, 12:57 PM
I'm planning on leaving my common law mate. I am wondering who I would contact if there is a problem with him not letting me take Zoe?? We aquired Zoe together and she is registered with the county under my name and with the vet and boarding kennel under my name - his name is not on any of these documents. I am the one who takes care of her and all the others - he does nothing except play with her a few minutes most days.

I left once before and we had a cat named Max. He would not let me take him and I am so very worried about Zoe. I think most of the reason I ever came back to him was because of Max! Leaving Zoe here isn't an option, but I don't want to board her at a kennel and not let him say goodbye to her but then again maybe I should?? I don't know what to do here................

I feel bad about leaving because I know it'll hurt him, but I'm not happy and I know he isn't all that happy either. We are too much alike yet different in so many ways. I can't marry someone when I'm having doubts. I don't want to be a biatch about the situation although I know he'll most likely be extrememly rude and mean to me. He has a very bad temper and I don't want the dogs around when the time comes as they get scared - and I really HATE when he scares MY dogs.:mad:

There is no possible way he can provide for Zoe like I can. He's too selfish and won't give up anything to make the time for her needs which is a daily ritual(i was going to say "chore" but it's not a chore to me!). Heck he has a dog of his own when I came into this relationship and who looks after him????? Me!

So what would any of you reccomend I do in this situation??

Prin
June 20th, 2006, 01:01 PM
Well, I know in Qc if your name is on the receipts, that's all that matters.. You might want to meet with a lawyer just to talk about everything related to common-law laws...

cpietra16
June 20th, 2006, 01:14 PM
Legally, I can't imagine any one thinking that Zoe is his, especially if everything is in your name, however he can make it hard on you. If he decides to take you to court and By the time you go to court he make it very hard. What if he keeps Zoe until the court date...what if he decides to sell Zoe...anything can happen. I sure would be careful on how this is approached, especially if he has a temper.

technodoll
June 20th, 2006, 01:20 PM
not an easy sitution... i feel for you! :sad:

for everyone's safety & specially zoe's well-being, i would get her boarded a day or two before you make the "big move". don't tell him where, and make sure it's not a place he could find her. it's not "nice" but you gotta do, what you gotta do to protect your baby. just my 2 cent's... and hope it goes well for you.

LianneCatherine
June 20th, 2006, 01:25 PM
Copper's Mom,

I'm sorry you're going through such an ordeal. You are very selfless to think first of your furbaby over your own turmoil over this event, which proves your loyalty to Zoe. You should certainly be the doggy's caretaker when you leave. Please talk to a lawyer about this. Sometimes you can ask something like this over the phone without incurring a charge. However, I'd imagine you have other property that you will have to split/organize with your commonlaw, so it wouldn't hurt to get things started and know your rights before you break the news. That way, you can get the paperwork together, make copies, and have all of the evidence (vet bills, your name on any relevant doggy documents, etc.) ready. If this person has a temper, he may try to destroy this type of evidence. Just to be safe, make sure you have copies of important documents and safeguard your most valued items before this happens.

Sorry again you have to go through that, but I wish you the best of luck. I'm sure Zoe will go to you.

:fingerscr

Copper'sMom
June 20th, 2006, 01:48 PM
I'm only taking what is mine(what I brought into this relationship) and some of my stuff I'm leaving for him - as he has nothing to begin with. I'm not worried about possessions they don't mean a thing, I just want Zoe. The only thing he could take me to court for is Zoe - but I know he'll lose that battle. He'll want the ring back and he can have it. That's the only valuable possession he'd want. But out of spite, he'll say he wants Zoe. I know he loves her and Copper too, but he'll get over it soon enough I'm sure. He was somewhat appalled on how I was with Copper and my cat when we first got together. He was embarassed when I'd give my dog a kiss when his friends or family were around.:rolleyes: We both grew up with animals but very differently. To him, a dog is a dog - it wasn't a big part of the family - to me, my pets are my kids.

The people I board Zoe with, the hubby is an OPP officer and his wife is an ex OPP officer - they know my situation and I told her Zoe would probably be there soon at that time. Maybe it is best I just take her and not give him a chance to say goodbye - even though I will feel like a horrible person for doing this.

BTW, does anyone have any suggestions on how to break up?? I don't know if I should just move out while he's at work(this seems really mean to me) or tell him first before I pack it all up?? I feel so bad about this all and I always try to do things the nice way as I don't want to hurt him intentionally. I don't like to hurt people or make them mad because then I feel so bad about it.

KarineB
June 20th, 2006, 01:57 PM
Breaking up is always the hard part. Have you tried leaving before? In my opinion, if you have talked about leaving before think of the reaction he had. If you know that he will get super mad and maybe a little violent I would leave while he is at work.
Good luck and hope all is not too stressful! :sorry:

Sunkist/Winnie
June 20th, 2006, 01:58 PM
Well if you are afraid on what he may do, and there is nothing he can say to change your mind why not move everything you want to take while he is at work? Then, arrange to meet him someplace else before he gets home and sees that you have moved. Sit him down and explain your decision to him. Once you are done explaining why you have made the decsion to leave at this time you could explain to him that you have already moved today.

I'd think that would be easier than trying to pack AND move stuff out while you are both upset, especially if he will not leave the house while you are packing.

I have not been in your position before so, I don't have any experience to base my suggestion on other than a friend of mine left her fiancee last summer and she said it was harder staying with him while they were dividing things up and packing than it had been to tell him she was leaving. Plus he fought her tooth and nail over everything she was going to pack...even stuff he had never used in the 5 years they had been together. She never thought he would do that. If she had already been packed she would have gotten out with more of her stuff, as it was she left a lot of stuff she had to replace just so she could get out and stop the fighting.

Good luck, she said it was a difficult decision for her, but even though she was set back financially and emotionally she said the past year has been the best year she can remember in a long time.

jawert1
June 20th, 2006, 02:14 PM
Board both dogs (or all animals you're taking) with your friends and then proceed to pack. Give them strict instructions to not let him near them should he find out where they are. Also, make sure you have the originals and make photocopies of all relevent vet docs, certs and receipts. In the event he gets really evil and tries to destroy the originals, then you've got backups (just store them somewhere he can't get to them). I was fortunate, my ex and I made the arrangements prior to getting the dogs that they would go with me no matter what, and he never even tried to force the issue. At this point, he gets the ring back, you get the dog. Tell him if he wants to be a bully about it, you're taking EVERYTHING and then proceed to do so. You've got more of a leg to stand on anyway, given you've got legitimate proof of ownership. I really hope everything goes better than you expect it to, sometimes ppl do surprise you and aren't a&*%$#s but you need to be prepared just in case. Good luck :/

phoenix
June 20th, 2006, 02:31 PM
possession is 9/10ths of the law. don't let the dog(s?) out of your possession. Great advice here, if there is even the thought that his temper will get the best of him, move out FIRST then meet in a PUBLIC place to tell him. Keep yourself safe at all times. That is what's most important.

Kerrye
June 20th, 2006, 02:38 PM
HI
I don't know how long you have been living together but after a certain period of time (I think 1 yr) The courts consider you to be legally married when it comes to the division of assets. I would definitly consult a lawyer about your dogs and about your possessions. If you are afraid of the situation getting abusive have a friend there as a witness (maybe the police who are going to dog sit) Make sure you have everything legal or he can make your life a living nightmare. Take it from someone who has gone through a very nasty divorce.

Good luck

LianneCatherine
June 20th, 2006, 03:58 PM
I agree with Jawert and Sunkist- pack your stuff and get out with the dogs before you break the news. Not only will it safeguard the dogs and your belongings, but it will also prevent him from manipulating you into staying (not that you're weak or anything, but stuff happens). It would also make moving a lot less awkward like Sunkist mentioned. You want to minimize any and all damage.

If you have any reason to think that he might make the situation difficult for you, I really think you should talk to a lawyer before you do anything. That way, you will be proactive and prepared. Let's hope he takes it well and everything is settled civilly.

Good luck!

Copper'sMom
June 20th, 2006, 04:26 PM
Thanks everyone. My mom's hubby said I shouldn't pack and leave while he's at work so I was wondering what others thought. Everyone else I know says the same as all of you(all are female). I think most males will say otherwise.
Copper and the cats belong to me. Zoe is ours, and Sargent belongs to Mr. Doe. We are moving back to my Mom's for now, Zoe will be boarded 4 days/week at a kennel until we build one for her. She is much too hyper for my family to handle and I won't take chances of her being under their care as she can be a handful.
Thinking about it now, it's best I pack and leave while he's at work as his temper causes him to have tantrums and things will get broke. I don't want my things to be broken.

Would it be really bad to tell him over the phone instead of meeting him some place? We can always talk like adults on the phone, and I really don't want to see his temper, but would it be unfair to him?? OR should I have his Mother tell him?? She knows I want out. She saw an episode one day and was very upset - she doesn't blame me for wanting to leave.

I really can't stay anymore. I'm a very small person and have lost weight and I can't afford to lose weight! Many people whom I haven't seen in years say I look much thinner than they remember me. I'm always a happy person but lately I'm not. And being in bad relationships - they make me into a weak person when I've always been strong. I can't wait to be strong and independent again with my babies at my side!

jesse's mommy
June 20th, 2006, 04:29 PM
How about moving all your stuff out while he is at work and leave him a letter?

Stacer
June 20th, 2006, 05:24 PM
I can't give you any advice, but I hope everything works out for you. Goodluck.

SarahLynn123
June 20th, 2006, 05:29 PM
I broke up with someone over the phone, and sometimes this is the safest decision. All I had to deal with were a few weeks of begging and crying phone calls, much better then his bad temper in person.

You know him best and what he is capable of, so imagine what he will do (and what happened last time) and make your decision accordingly. You must put your safety first.

Good luck,
Sarah

erykah1310
June 20th, 2006, 05:47 PM
IM sooooo sorry that you are struggling with this. I know first hand how you feel. Im in the EXACT situation right now, atleast for me I know he cant ever possibly take the dogs or cats or rabbits no matter how much he would want to spite me. He works out of town EVERY week all year long.
I dont think its a good idea to move out while he is at work. To me its just not appropriate ( then again I really dont know your exact situation.)
For me, I just let it all out, told him flat out how i felt and to MY SURPRISE he feels the same!:eek:
Although Meiko technically is his dog, by means of all registration and so on, I would be taking him. ( at first this apparently wasnt going to happen) after he cooled off a bit he agreed that Meik would be better off with me.
I really hope you can get this straightened out. I understand the pain, stress and all the other stuff that comes with not being happy in a relationship.

But... However if you feel that he will take the news of you leaving FOR GOOD horribly, by all means do it when he is gone. In the end its YOUR safety, feelings, sanity that matters most right? ( and the pets of course )

LianneCatherine
June 20th, 2006, 06:38 PM
There are giong to be people who think they know what's "right" and what's "wrong," and I imagine many people think that breaking up with someone to their face is the ONLY way to do it.

However, you are the only one in this situation. You are the only one who will bear the consequences. You are the only one who knows your boyfriend and how he will react. If you think that telling him on the phone is the best way for you, I say go for it. There's no "right" or "wrong" way to do something like that for every situation. Do what feels right to YOU.

I'm still sticking to the idea of moving everything out before he's aware of your leaving. Don't take the chance of him breaking something or causing you any more grief. Take back your independence in one fell swoop! You go! ;)

LM1313
June 20th, 2006, 06:47 PM
I would move Zoe to a boarding kennel or something like that before talking to him. And don't tell him where it is or go to a place he knows she's been left before. Since all the receipts and such are in your name, I don't think you have anything to worry about legally. :)

I would pack and move while he's at work, personally. Does he ever get violent or in a temper? If so, definitely break up with him over the phone or, at the very least, in a public place after you already have moved the dogs and your belongings out!

Best of luck!!

dtbmnec
June 20th, 2006, 06:59 PM
Why not do a combination of the things suggested here?

Take the pets to a safe area, be it shelter or someone's house or even where you will be living next. Pack your things while he is gone but don't move them until he gets home. Have a talk and have a friend or two come by the house at say 6pm if he's home for 4pm, which will give you two hours to say what you need. If its gonna take less time give them a call from a cell phone but tell them to be there for 6pm.

At least that way (where no matter what your friends show at a specified time) it gives you some protection if he gets violent (I don't know him and he might not be that's for you to decide). I mean sure people aren't there right when he does the actual violence but if they show up at 6 and you have bruises like crazy or you don't answer the door/show your face at the door at least they can then call the authorities.

Of course he can just say "yeah ok" and it might be the "easiest" break-up too. I guess it all depends on how you say things and such things....

Did any of that make sense?

Megan

jawert1
June 20th, 2006, 07:37 PM
One other thing (and only because I've done this), is if you choose to pack up while he's home, then please please please please please have a witness present, or 2. First off, packing goes more easily with a 2nd and 3rd set of hands and secondly, guys (even the wrathfully aggressive ones) don't tend to get hostile and start breaking stuff when others are present. Also provides a concerted front to him that a) you're dead set serious about this, b) he's not going to be able to act out or have a tantrum without serious repercussions (friend calls cops asap) and c) he can't bar you from leaving.

Copper'sMom
June 20th, 2006, 07:42 PM
How about moving all your stuff out while he is at work and leave him a letter?
I thought about this too.
I dont think its a good idea to move out while he is at work. To me its just not appropriate
I didn't always think it was appropriate either. But as time goes on, I fear him more. He has NEVER hit me or even come close, but his temper still scares me. I've never had to deal with an angry man in my life - ever. I just can't help it, he scares me when he's mad. I don't like watching him punch, kick or throw things around. I've dealt with a broken window, 2 broken doors, a coffee table, and a metal dish rack not to mention he'll leave in his truck and drive like a total complete idiot which puts other people on the road in danger.

I've already started packing and moving stuff out. I have ALOT of stuff! I'm moving out what isn't used often and stuff he never sees - so when the time comes, there will be much less to move. Either the day will come that I will just do it while he's at work, OR we will have some sort of confrontation. We had one a few weeks ago(I've never seen 2 Pit Bulls so scared! They both jumped on the couch with me, one on each side shaking) and he kept asking me what I wanted to do and I couldn't reply because I just wasn't sure then and I was scared. But now I know for sure - I'm just afraid to do it.
Did any of that make sense?
Yes, it made perfect sense! My mom's hubby offered to be here with me when I tell him. But then again, I'm worried about Mr Doe's feelings again and how would he feel about this.

If pms comes around though, I may not need any help at all! I can get quite irritated at this time where I don't give a crap about him at all. But all this stress has caused "Aunt Flo(w)" to take a vacation - no, no possibility of being pregnant either! I'm just hanging on by a thin thread now, I'm hoping by the end of this mmonth, I'll be out.

And thank you all for the good luck wishes!:grouphug:

jawert1
June 20th, 2006, 08:03 PM
But then again, I'm worried about Mr Doe's feelings again and how would he feel about this.

Time for you to look out for #1 though (and the furbabies), I know you've got the strength to get through this, and we're all here to support you. I'm up for a roadtrip if need be :)

Copper'sMom
June 20th, 2006, 08:30 PM
Time for you to look out for #1 though (and the furbabies), I know you've got the strength to get through this, and we're all here to support you. I'm up for a roadtrip if need be :)

That's what my friends always tell me! And funny that's Mr. Doe's motto - he's always #1 - only do a good deed if there's something good in it for him.:mad: We are so very different!

Oh about that roadtrip - you'd be broke with the prices of gas these days!:eek: lol but that's a very sweet gesture!:crazy:

Frenchy
June 20th, 2006, 08:42 PM
PLEASE be carefull!Take your pets to a safe place #1.While you break up with him or pack your things while/if he's there,please,have someone else with you.A friend of mine had to break it off over the phone and have her dad with her when she went back to the house to pack.It seems to me like he has a temper and that's never a good think in those kind of situations.Please be carefull.

OntarioGreys
June 20th, 2006, 09:28 PM
I don't want to be a biatch about the situation although I know he'll most likely be extrememly rude and mean to me. He has a very bad temper and I don't want the dogs around when the time comes as they get scared - and I really HATE when he scares MY dogs.



This says a lot right there, move the dogs somewhere safe and get the heck out of there when he is away and please talk to a lawyer to know what your rights are.

My seperation from my common in law was over 10 years ago already back then in the province of Ontario you were consider married after 6 months together, so already all property could be considered joint property in a court of law, which then could be divided 50/50 regardless if you were the one the brought most of it into the relationship. If you are the higher wage earner you could also be made to pay spousal support so that your incomes are equal and it does not matter if you have children that you are supporting from a prior relationship, the income still gets divided equally. This is what I learned from my lawyer, I gave up some property to keep the ex happy and thinking he was getting a good deal in my seperation, to keep him from going to a lawyer had he, had he I would have lost a heck of a lot more, I was a sole support parent and it would have hurt a lot had he. as I would have lsot my home, hals my furniture and given up $7 an hour of my income plus the court could have given him a share of my pension.

So my suggestion is to get everything out of the residence that you brought in or want(pets) don't get greedy as you want to avoid having him seek legal advice especially if you brought considerably more into the relationship. He may be angry at you taking the dog but I hardly think he would go to court to obtain custody.

Bushfire2000
June 20th, 2006, 10:56 PM
Good luck and stay safe.

Sunkist/Winnie
June 21st, 2006, 08:32 AM
I think you should do what your gut is telling you to do...and it sounds like your gut is scared...so listen to it.

Don't put yourself in any danger to spare his feelings, it doesn't seem like he's bothered to spare your feelings with his outbursts.

And even if he hasn't hit you in the past, there is always a first time.

People here have mentioned having others there to try and keep things sane, but you mentioned his mother seeing an episode, so if he's willing to behave badly in front of his mother, an audience might not be enough to tame him.

In the end it's how you feel, if you feel that you can only do it by leaving a letter, then leave a letter, if you only feel comfotable doing it over the phone then call.

And if anyone says anything about your methods, just tell them that you would never judge how they chose to end an abusive raletionship and you thank them for not judging you.

Be safe...don't give him any more opportunity to hurt you emotionally and in spirit...and don't give him the first opportunity to hurt you physically.

Schwinn
June 22nd, 2006, 12:38 PM
Ideally, face to face is always the "courteous" thing to do. But if you're afriad of him, then doing it while he is at work is best.

I am BY NO MEANS defending him, but I can tell you that someone who has a violent temper, and even breaks things, does not always mean they will step it up to physical violence to you. That being said, I don't think you should take the chance if there is even an inkling it might happen. If you weren't afraid, then I'd say pack with a third party, someone who is obviously not romantically interested (I know this may sound silly, but when you're leaving someone, and a male friend of yours shows up, it could be awkward). You're mom's hubby sounds perfect. If not, another relative or even mutual friend. Someone who wouldn't possibly feel misdirected wrath during an emotional time.

Here's another option. What about packing up while he's at work, and waiting for him to get home and then telling him? And still having a third party there? That's just another option to avoid the awkwardness of having to pack while he's there (or the drama), but still being able to tell him face to face.

However, if you truly are afriad of violence, then the only real option is packing while he's gone, and either talking by phone or letter.

Also, about being common-law...I'm not 100% sure of the law, but I do know, from experience many times over (I used to deal with it in my old job), the house in a common-law relationship is not a matrimonial home. It belongs soley to whoever's name is on title. I'd have to assume that it goes the same for any other property, but again, I've never dealt with that part.

Regardless, good luck, and if you do need "security", I'm willing to lend a hand. I'm just up the highway.

nuttinfluffer
June 22nd, 2006, 08:17 PM
I got my husband's opinion on your issue and this is what he suggests: remove the pets from the household to a secure location BEFORE you move out. Chances are your boyfriend will not want to pay legal fees i.e. lawyers, and court fees for the pet(s). Since you are in fact co-owners of Zoe and he may want Zoe only out of spite, if he gives you problems over this offer to pay him the cost of the initial purchase price of the dog. My hubby says most men will go for this as most men are cheap :eek: With Zoe being in a safe place, you will have more bargaining power :)

Have all your stuff packed and moved out on the day you are leaving him & have an impartial male friend, father, etc with you while you are moving in case of a confrontation i.e. he leaves home early from work. If this man is violent then by all means end your relationship over the phone once you've moved out.

Best of luck

OntarioGreys
June 22nd, 2006, 09:51 PM
One lawyer site for Ontario says that what each person brings into the relationship is their and their is no laws regarding division of property in a common law relationship, which had me scratching my head since my own lawyer from 15 years ago told me different when I seperated, so I dug a bit deeper

Division of assets in Ontario

Division of property is dealt with in Ontario under the Family Law Act, which is a provincial law.


The family home (also known as the "matrimonial home") is dealt with separately from other property by the law. The family home is defined to mean anywhere the family has lived -- a house owned by the family, a rented apartment or house, a mobile home, even a tent if that is where the family has lived are all considered "matrimonial homes." Particularly where there has been violence in the relationship, the victim of that abuse (almost always the woman) is likely to be allowed to remain in the home, regardless of whose name is on the deed or lease. The issue of dividing up its value will be dealt with separately.


The written law about division of property refers specifically to married couples. However, case law now "imputes" (or assigns) the same rights of property division to couples, both heterosexual or same sex, who have an established common law relationship.


At its most basic, the law says couples who cohabit have entered into a partnership and all property accumulated by the couple over the years of cohabitation is to be divided equally between them, regardless of who paid for it or whose name it is registered in (as in the case of a home, cottage, boat, car, etc.). The intent of this approach is to respect the contributions made by both members of the couple, even if one of those contributions has been largely non-financial. This has benefitted women enormously, who have traditionally been the ones to leave work or reduce their hours of work in order to raise the children.


Property brought into the relationship by either party continues to belong to that person unless they turn it into joint property. An example of this might be where one person has some money saved up that is used to buy the family home.


There are certain exceptions to the automatic equal sharing of property accumulated during the marriage that we will not deal with here.


Where the couple are also in business together (for example, running a family farm) there are other considerations that must be taken into account when dividing up property.


Property includes pensions, jewellery, art, antiques, investments and savings, real estate and all of the everyday possessions that most families have.


If the couple is able to agree upon a division of property between themselves, this is perfectly acceptable.


If they are not, and they turn to lawyers, mediators or the courts to assist them, they will have to prepare a financial statement that includes detailed information about all the property that each of them owns. What usually happens is that the person whose property is worth more than the other pays money to her (the woman most often has less property than the man) so that the value of the property is "equalized."


There are some time limits to when a person can begin a claim for a division of property, but a considerable amount of time is allowed for the two people to separate and sort out any immediate issues such as custody and support before they must deal with the issue of property.
For more information, see our fact sheet Division of Property.




Several provinces have already begun to amend their legislation. Since 1997, British Columbia has amended numerous statutes, including six core statutes, to add same-sex couples. In June 1999, Quebec amended 28 statutes and 11 regulations to grant same-sex couples the same benefits and obligations that are available to opposite-sex common-law couples. And in October 1999, to comply with the Supreme Court decision in M. v.H., Ontario passed omnibus legislation to bring 67 statutes into compliance with the ruling.



Laws and statutes can change from one year to the next, a judge who makes a ruling in one case can set a precendent for future similiar cases, which can be different from the the law or where no current law applies, In Quebec there are no laws governing the division of assets in common law relationships,(that I can find online) but because Quebec has the highest number of common-law relationships there are likely a lot of precendents that have been set from prior court cases, and from those a lawyer can give advise on what would likely happen should end up going to court.

This is the reason I advised her to get her belongings out of the home especially if she has contributed the greater portion, if she tells him she is leaving and he tells her to get out immediately and she can't take her belonging right away, she may have trouble trying to recover in a court and it will also get quite expensive with legal fees, which in the end may not make it worth the cost to recover, it is better to get hoer belonging she wants out first, he may not find it worth the cost of a lawyer to fight to claim them as his. It has nothing to do with being cowardly, it is just a means to ensure she keeps her own property without having to go through a huge cost to recover should he decide to make things difficult for her out of anger and spite. When I left my husband I had to leave all my belongings behind, he destroyed and tossed my belongings in the garbage, which left me starting off a new life with a child with nothing, sure some items are replaceable but school and life momentos, gifts from those then deceased and photo albums are not, and losing those hurt a lot.

glasslass
June 22nd, 2006, 10:51 PM
I can't quote actual statistics. I'm just thinking about a TV program dealing with abuse. It said that while not every man who destroys property goes on to physically abuse a partner, the majority of abusers started by breaking things, sometimes even injuring or killing family pets. Also, that the most dangerous period is when a woman first leaves or obtains a restraining order. You have to follow your gut instinct. If you're afraid of his temper tantrums, and your dogs become afraid, you have to insure your, and your pets' safety first. Then deal with the breakup however you feel best. If there's any chance of violence, be sure someone is present that he respects enough to keep himself civil. Good luck!

Luvmypit
June 23rd, 2006, 04:53 PM
So sorry you have to go through this!!

Everyone gave you great advice so not much to add. I can only comment on what i would do after given such good advice and many options. I would send all animals you are taking to families house, board Zoe. I would pack, load everything into a car and wait for him on the front steps. Ask to talk while the male relative or friend is in the car waiting and can see the both of you. I was just thinking if you show up with a bunch of people or even one then he may feel threatened and embarassed. He shouldn't be made out to be the bad guy and by having some guy listen in on your break up can be overwhelming and may cause him to be more defensive. That way you can do it to his face, he can say his peace and get some closure hopefully ( you want to avoid him wanting further clarification and correspondance) and at the same time you have a relative monitoring the situation and able to help or summon help if need be.
Ok so I guess i did have more advice... lol ...

I hope for the best and whatever you decide will be fine. You are the one in the situation and you are the one who can determine the safest and most amicable way to seperate because you know him and you know you.

So good luck and keep us updated and always be safe!!!!

Copper'sMom
June 26th, 2006, 08:26 PM
Thank you all so much for your advice. We had an incident the other day in regards to Zoe staying with me at my mom's for 2 weeks as I will be taking care of my grandmother while my mom and hubby are on holidays. He just about flew off the handle in front of my family. My nieces and nephews were running around, so everyone was to busy to notice the way he was talking to me but I do know that Zoe will be a huge issue in my leaving. I've decided to wait until my parents are back from holidays before I move out. I'm scared he may harass me and I need my Mom and hubby for moral support - especially my Mom. I can't do this alone.
I have decided to pack and move while he's at work. I will write him a letter and give all the reasons on why I did it this way and how I feel. I'm scared of him and I just can't deal with his temper. I have been so out of it the last few weeks - scared and sick. I feel like I'm going crazy and I can't relax until I'm gone - until we are gone. Zoe will be boared so she'll be safe. Copper and the cats will be at my mom's. He can take me to court if he wants but there isn't a chance in hell he will ever get Zoe.

Frenchy
June 26th, 2006, 08:52 PM
Copper's mom,I can't wait for you to be outta there.I wish I would live closer so I could help.He just freaked because you wanted to stay at your mom's for two weeks or was it because you wanted to take the dog with you?Either way,not a good reaction from him.So there you have it,BE CAREFUL.And it is a very good idea to leave while he's not there,you might want to take someone with you anyway,just in case,better be safe than,you know.Take care of yourself and I hope your eating more these days,I know,it's not easy but you have to get strenght to get thru this.Keep us posted :grouphug:

Prin
June 27th, 2006, 12:39 AM
Is there something you can do, like notify the cops or something, so that if something does happen, you have proof that there was a threat to begin with and it wasn't out of nowhere?

I really hope you can do this safely. Sounds so scary. I admire you for being so strong.:grouphug:

mona_b
June 27th, 2006, 10:02 AM
Copper'sMom,my heart goes out to.:grouphug:

I know I haven't been on for a while,that's because I just went through what you are going through.It was leading up for some time.But I had to do what was best for me and my daughter(not his)..

I did tell him we were leaving.We left in May,and I told him in April.Things did get quiet in the house.We moved in with him.So it was already his house in his name.So I didn't have to worry about buying him out.I took what was mine and my daughters.

As for the pets.WellTron was mine.I brought him into the house.So of course he came with me.We got Casper and Winnie(cats) together.I paid for the adoption of Casper,and he did for Winnie.Both were in his name.Reason being he used his vet.I was and still am using my vet in Toronto for Tron.I was worried about the cats.I didn't want to leave them with him.He wasn't as responsible for them as I was.So he said they were better off with me.So I have them.

Your situation is a bit different as my other half didn't have anger issues.

My suggestion to you is,call your nearest Police Staion.Explain everything to them.Let them know that you are terrified as to the outcome of you leaving,and especially that he will freak once you take Zoe.Tell them about his anger issues.And that you fear him.I would do this now.

HI
I don't know how long you have been living together but after a certain period of time (I think 1 yr) The courts consider you to be legally married when it comes to the division of assets.

Actually no.You are not legally married.The only way you are legally married is with a piece of paper.If you buy a house together,then you either decide to sell it or buy one another out.If neither wants to do it,then that's when the courts will decide.

Splitting from a legal marriage and a common-law marriage is different.You divorce from a legal marriage,you don't divorce from a common-law one.It's just called leaving.This is my second "leaving" situation.My first one was of 7 years.

I also need to add this.His temper may not be taken out on you.But PLEASE PLEASE don't think it won't.I have been to those calls.I have seen it all.Please call the station and talk to them now.

Just know you are in my thoughts....:grouphug:

LM1313
June 27th, 2006, 10:20 AM
I think it's scary that he's willing to fly off the handle at you even when there are other people around. Also that he's so angry because you/Zoe will be at your mother's . . . That sounds controlling on his part.

I definitely think you should leave while he's at work and have someone else with you just in case he unexpectedly comes home. And have a cell phone with you so that you can call the police just in case!

You can get through this. :grouphug:

jesse's mommy
June 27th, 2006, 11:31 AM
I'm glad Mona came on here. I agree with what she said 100%. Please be careful you just never know what triggers people and what is the last straw. There was just a horrible incident here that happened last week where the father was just at his last thread. I won't go into details, but it's just horrible. Please be careful and make sure there are people there to help you. I would say on the "moving" day, the more the better. It's much easier with more hands so if you have more people there to help you get the bulk out fast, go ahead and use them. If I was there I would be happy to help you. I'm a master packer for moves and fast. Please be careful for you and all of your babies sake. :grouphug:

Prin
June 27th, 2006, 01:08 PM
I'm glad Mona came on here. Me too. I was so hoping she would come in and say to speak to the cops first and she did- which means it's not a waste of time. I so hope everything goes ok.:fingerscr :fingerscr :grouphug:

mona_b
June 28th, 2006, 12:34 AM
It's definately not a waste of time.This man has anger issues.

I really hope Copper'sMom takes my advice and calls ASAP.:fingerscr

catsnatcher-CDN
June 28th, 2006, 08:56 AM
Copper's mom, I know I'm coming in late into the thread but my advice to you is to move while he's at work. Have a moving company briefed on your situation so that they may move everything out fast.

I wouldn't bring the dogs to the OPPs. They are law abiding people who will know they have no right NOT to hand over the dogs to him if he shows up.

Most importantly, I suggest you call either the police or a shelter for women the day you're packing it up. They will stay with you to ensure your safety while you move in case he shows up.

Good Luck and Congrats on your courage to leave :love:

(I just read mona_b's post. I'm glad she suggested getting the police involved also.)

SugarbearPaws
June 29th, 2006, 11:11 AM
Hi,

I'm very sorry about your situation. Is there any chance he might see these posts? Be careful!

Best wishes.

:sorry:

OntarioGreys
June 29th, 2006, 05:26 PM
Quote:
HI
I don't know how long you have been living together but after a certain period of time (I think 1 yr) The courts consider you to be legally married when it comes to the division of assets.


Actually no.You are not legally married.The only way you are legally married is with a piece of paper.If you buy a house together,then you either decide to sell it or buy one another out.If neither wants to do it,then that's when the courts will decide.
Splitting from a legal marriage and a common-law marriage is different.You divorce from a legal marriage,you don't divorce from a common-law one.It's just called leaving.This is my second "leaving" situation.My first one was of 7 years.



No it is not the same, but legally treated much the same with regards to division of property as shown in the quote I posted about the family law act of Ontario.


The written law about division of property refers specifically to married couples. However, case law now "imputes" (or assigns) the same rights of property division to couples, both heterosexual or same sex, who have an established common law relationship.

And it is this law that my own lawyer was discussing with me and it can even include spousal support and pensions, we lived together for 7 years as well had no children together, our common-law seperation was over 13 years ago

Copper'sMom
June 29th, 2006, 10:25 PM
Good to hear from you Mona_b! Yes I have been thinking about talking to the police. I know a few officers who will help me out and two of them happen to be the owners of Zoe's doggy daycare kennel that she attends.

I am staying at my mom's for 2 weeks while they are on holidays. When my mom and hubby come back is when I'm moving out. I do plan on having one or two people there with me.

We rent so there is no nonsense involved with the house etc. My name isn't on anything(bills etc).

I'm very sorry about your situation. Is there any chance he might see these posts? Be careful!
None whatsoever!! I've taken care of that long ago.

I am so thankful that you all understand the love we have for our pets. If Zoe wasn't involved, it would be much easier. People think I'm crazy because I am putting Zoe's needs before mine. People don't understand that I can't just up and leave her behind or find her a new home!:mad: "She's just a dog" they tell me!:mad: :mad: I have thought about it very very briefly(ok, imagined it for a second) what life would be like without her...............and it would be hell. A huge part of my heart would be gone. As much work as she is, I wouldn't trade her for anything in the world.

It's not going to be easy staying with my mom and hubby either. My 92 yr old grandmother lives here as well. One level house, my 2 dogs and 2 cats, my mom's dog and 2 cats and my mom's hubby. My mom's hubby and I have had many issues over the last 13 years. I love him very much and appreciate everything he does, but he's not the easiest man to get along with! lol But it's better than where I'm at now and this is only temporary until I get my life back on track. I have more stuggles to deal with after this one is over.

But for now, I have 2 weeks holidays - no work(except taking care of grandma:) ), high speed internet:D :D , pool, hot tub and my 3 out of 4 kids:love: so I'm going to take time and relax!:)

babyrocky1
June 29th, 2006, 10:44 PM
Oh Coppers Mom, I just pmed you before i read this, if you want to send me moms # Ill phone you there!

babyrocky1
June 29th, 2006, 10:58 PM
I am staying at my mom's for 2 weeks while they are on holidays. When my mom and hubby come back is when I'm moving out. I do plan on having one or two people there with me.

We rent so there is no nonsense involved with the house etc. My name isn't on anything(bills etc).



But for now, I have 2 weeks holidays - no work(except taking care of grandma:) ), high speed internet:D :D , pool, hot tub and my 3 out of 4 kids:love: so I'm going to take time and relax!:) Im glad to see you have an "out" for now and a short term plan, I know this has been coming along time and you have really thought this out as best as you can, its time to act. I know I dont need to tell you that. I think that if he were to harrass you over Zoe it would be mostly just to have something over your head and I dont think he would actually go to court over her. It would make interesting news coverage though. "pittie custody battle"... anyways, relaxing for two weeks is long over due, so try and take advantage of the time and enjoy your vacation with your babys and grandma! Any luck on the places we were talking about?

babyrocky1
June 29th, 2006, 11:03 PM
[Gret Advice Mona, and Im so sorry to hear of your situation as well but very glad that your back!:grouphug: I hope things are back on track for you and your daughter now.

mona_b
July 1st, 2006, 10:35 AM
Great to hear.Please talk to them.I am sure they won't hesitate to help/be there for you.....:thumbs up.

When the time comes for you to move,and once you have moved,PLEASE be careful.This is why I hope you talk to them now.I'm just more worried for you once you are gone from there.He can make you life a living hell.

But for now, I have 2 weeks holidays - no work(except taking care of grandma ), high speed internet , pool, hot tub and my 3 out of 4 kids so I'm going to take time and relax!

Ummmmmmmm,can I come over?????............:D :p


babyrocky1,things have been pretty good.I enjoy being on my own.And she is doing well.Just have 2 issues with her that is stressing me.But I'll deal with it...:)

Prin
July 1st, 2006, 12:20 PM
You both are such strong women. :highfive: :highfive:

Copper'sMom
July 10th, 2006, 09:08 PM
Ok, it's done.......................................but my stuff is still at the house.

He came by my mom's and was asking when i'd be coming home.....if i was coming home at all. He knew something was up. So, I told him i didn't know what i wanted and that i was happy here. Then he left.

Then he called and ranted on the phone for over an hour. I didn't have much to say as I am numb. He wants Zoe and I told him to take me to court if he wants her.

Frenchy
July 10th, 2006, 09:20 PM
I'm glad it's done :highfive: But now you have to be careful.I think we all told you not to go to the house ALONE.I hope he doesn't make any trouble with Zoe,or any problem att all.BE CAREFUL and keep us posted.I hope everything will go smoothly.Congrat on your new life!:highfive:

glasslass
July 10th, 2006, 09:27 PM
Stand firm as the next thing he'll probably do is try to make you feel sorry for him and guilty.

technodoll
July 10th, 2006, 09:34 PM
be strong... and be assured that this too, shall pass. in a little while you'll be wondering why you waited so long to start your New Wonderful Life! hugs from a been-there, done-that girl... :grouphug:

Copper'sMom
July 10th, 2006, 09:40 PM
So now I have no idea what to do from here! I think I'll put Zoe in the kennel for a few days for her safety and one less thing for me to worry about right now. I can't just leave my mom's all day as I have to be here for my Grandma. On Wedensday, I can get away for the day as my aunt will be here.

I think i will call the police and ask them to escort me to the house to get my stuff - even if he's not there.

He wants my car too. He bought it (used $1000) but it's in my name. I don't have a clue as to whether or not he can take it illegally.

I think he's just shooting off his mouth because he's pretty upset. I really don't know what to believe as he says things alot and then changes his mind about it.

Once i get my stuff, then i can relax! hopefully!

Skryker
July 10th, 2006, 10:03 PM
Congrats! I know this has been very hard and stressful for you.:grouphug:

The police escort is a good idea-not only is it safer for you, but you have witnesses to what gets said and done. If he says "OK, you can take that." or "Yes, that's yours." in front of the cops, he can't very well change his mind later.

As for the car, if it is in your name, it's your car. He would have to go to court and prove he paid for it and that it wasn't a gift, I think, in order to claim it. (That is just my opinion-I'm not sure WHAT the law might be).

Please don't relax too much, too soon. I know you want it over, but...my aunt's former husband harassed her for years, and tried to run her off the road almost 5 years after their divorce. I don't mean to scare you, but please be careful!

Prin
July 10th, 2006, 10:46 PM
:fingerscr that everything goes ok and you're free. :fingerscr :fingerscr :fingerscr :fingerscr

mummummum
July 11th, 2006, 02:17 AM
Hey Copper'sMom - it's a tough and scary thing to do but it sounds like you're making it through the worst of it. And you're right - he may be nothing but hot air and empty threats. You know your ex best but we truly never know what someone is capable of (and in some cases, the good they are capable of) and in my experience safety is THE all-important factor in leaving a relationship such as yours.

But, as you know manipulation, control, anger and physical violence are a continuum. Taking concrete steps to make sure you KNOW you are as safe as you can be is also good for your peace of mind and your feeling of self-worth and accomplishment. You are doing something that takes alot of courage, determination and inner-strength.

Taking these steps may seem to be a bit overboard but at the end of the day it's your safety we're talking about:

Taking calls from him or agreeing to see him (accepting mail from him, speaking to his friends or family at his request etc.) is likely to fuel his frustration, rage and sense of impotence. It also allows him to maintain a measure of control over you, your time and your emotions.

Speaking with your local Police frankly about your situation and involving them with retrieving your belongings is a must.

Program 911 as a 1 touch into your cell and keep it on at all times. Buy a spare battery so that you can always keep it "live".

Program 911 into the landline where you are staying if that is possible.

Arrange a code word or phrase with your parents and your friends so that if something happens and they call or you are able to call them they will know to contact the Police immediately.

If you have a coworker or supervisor whom you can trust, tell them about your situation so that they can keep an eye out for you while you are at work. Ask for an escort to and into your car by a co-worker if you have any reason to be concerned.

If you go out for a night on the town have some one pick you up and see you into the well-lit house.

If he starts to escalate the number of phone calls or you start to see him in unexpected places, arrange a safe house completely unknown to him and preferably unknown to your parents and friends.

Stay focussed only on that which cannot be replaced - you and your dogs and cats. Worry about your stuff when some or all of the numbness wears off and you are thinking clearly.Then you can plan for "what tomorrow may bring".

If I can be of any help in accessing local resources for women, women in crisis or housing please feel free to pm me - I'm happy to help.

You're courageous kiddo and we're all behind you here.:grouphug:

mona_b
July 11th, 2006, 05:52 AM
Well you just took the first step....:highfive: sista....:)

You CAN do this.You have to be tough now.Don't take any crap from him what so ever.Definately get the escort to your place.He may not start anything while they are there,but that doesn't mean he won't give you a hard time later.Have you talked to the cops about your situation?

Once everything is out,don't make any contact with him.Don't take any calls.And if you have to,change any numbers he has.I know it's a hassel,but it needs to be done.Do NOT go and meet him anywhere.

Cut the ties and go on with your life.And after a while he will give up.I hope.

If you need to talk,pm me......:)

Thank you Prin.I stand by the saying,what doesn't kill you makes you stronger...:)

Mahealani770
August 4th, 2006, 07:47 AM
Hey there Copper's Mom! I was wondering if you left your abusive boyfriend yet and how it went? :grouphug:

Copper'sMom
August 4th, 2006, 10:22 PM
Hey there Copper's Mom! I was wondering if you left your abusive boyfriend yet and how it went? :grouphug:

Oh yes, I did! I don't know if I would call him abusive though..... It's been 3 weeks already. He came by my Mom's to visit(really quickly):rolleyes: and had asked when i was coming home(when i was house sitting). I said Friday and then he asked if i wanted to come home and I said I was happy here(at my mom's) and he said "that's all i need to know" and he left!! Then he called me on the phone and ranted and raved for an hour -- understandably he was angry. He was more upset that I had Zoe than our actual break up - but he got over it really quick - within that hour rant!

So, I've been talking with his mom and she thinks it was a mutual decision but he didn't want to be the one to initiate the situation. I told her we both had issues and I don't think it was meant to be - we are so different in many ways, but yet the same in some. We were always on 2 different pages when it comes to communicating with each other.

We have spoken to each other a few times since, but just to settle loose ends. We don't talk about us or the dogs. I do miss his dog though:sad: I worry so much about him and he was a great playmate for my babies. I heard he is moving and giving his dog to a friend:sad: I soooo wish I could have him, but he's not very domesticated to be living in a populated area - he's used to the country.

Of course I still miss him a little, but i don't miss all the crap that i had to put up with. I have a whole new set of challenges ahead that I have to deal with now!( http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=28907 ) Life will get better real soon and I can't wait!!!

Frenchy
August 5th, 2006, 09:18 AM
I'm very relieved nothing bad happen.Now you can look forward to your new life! :thumbs up

CyberKitten
August 5th, 2006, 06:03 PM
Just saw this thread now - so glad it all worked out!! Good luck in your new life!! You were wise to think of yourself and furbabies first - my sister divorced her 1st husband and they had 5 cats and one was hers (her name was on the paperwork) but they jointly owned the other 4. They had no children. He was not al all violent (if anything, a little too passive which was party of the prob, she is quite aggressive - I rather liked him actually, still do, lol). They did have cutody issues over the cats and in the end, went to court and each were awarded 2 cats each. Two were older than the others and had been with the family from almot the first yr they were married. The next 2 were adopted separtely and were best buds so it was a Soloman kind of decision.

I do wish you the best of luck!!!! :highfive: