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Bah!!! Who needs a wedding?!!

Rick C
June 15th, 2006, 12:36 PM
A story at on the cost of weddings and the decision of one couple to stay away from getting married so they can avoid rampant consumerism.

The average USA wedding costs more than $22,000. . . . .

Mrs. C and I got married 21 years ago last month . . . . . invitations, church, small reception . . . . but the big expense we reserved for a three week honeymoon in Europe, staying at Canadian Forces Base Lahr, West Germany with her brother, borrowing his beat-up 1960 BMW to get around and enjoying the trips to Paris and Switzerland he threw in as a wedding present.

The whole thing, including wedding and three week honeymoon in Europe, was about $3,500 at the time.

Rick C

doggy lover
June 15th, 2006, 01:20 PM
Thats about what we spent on ours 24 years this Aug. We got married in Black Creek Pioneer village with horse and buggy and had our reception there too, it was old fashioned and nice only about 100 guests. I think today they pust everyone for the BIG wedding, I bet you could still do a simple on pretty cheep. Maybe people think if they spend big bucks it will last Ha.

June 15th, 2006, 01:26 PM
i can't bring myself to justify that much money for a wedding... so BF and i are perfectly happy to be "common-law" and engaged, it's enough for us. the party is for whom, anyways? :party:

June 15th, 2006, 01:30 PM
My wife and I got married in Maui, Hawaii 2 years ago at Old Lahaina Luau. Private traditional hawaiin wedding on the beach with about 8 guests, then the 'reception' was the Luau (which was also open to the public). It was awesome...great location, no stress at all, and cost US $3,000 or so with the photographer (wedding; reception, including a great dinner and drinks; and pictures). :thumbs up

Conversely, I went to a friends wedding here in Seattle about 3 weeks ago. It was really nice and the food was great, but there were ~150 guests so we only saw our friends for maybe 10 minutes. Probably cost $30,000 +! :eek:

June 15th, 2006, 02:28 PM
all the weddings I've been to lately have all been insanely expensive. I couldn't justify it either, which is why I took my wedding fund and spent it on a house. A much better investment, IMO.

jesse's mommy
June 15th, 2006, 02:29 PM
We are planning on flying to the Bahamas and getting married on the beach on weekend. A trip to the Bahamas for the weekend would cost us about $500 for the two of us (including air). We checked prices for beach weddings in the Bahamas and it's about $300 including pictures. I figure we can get away with a wedding for under $1,000. The family isn't happy, but I don't really care to have the stress of planning a wedding. Like Technodoll said, who is the party for anyway? We've been together for so long that the wedding part is sort of a technicality. That doesn't sound too good does it? :o

June 15th, 2006, 02:34 PM
Well, my bf and I have been together for 9 years and he's been wanting to get married for awhile now (I'd also like to be married before we start having kids...I think it's great being common law, but once kids are involved, I think it's important to make the commitment), but has patiently been waiting for me finish school. He's italian, so I know that when we DO get's going to be a BIG and EXPENSIVE affair!! his parents won't let us get away with anything less!

June 15th, 2006, 02:34 PM
My mother and I have debating on this topic lately, which is ridiculous since my bf hasn't even asked!

Anyway, she wants it to be as cheap as possible (obviously) since she's paying for it. I could care less either way. I'd rather have a nice, private wedding with my closest friends/family, than an extravagant money pit for something that lasts only one day! The marriage itself is much more important, and should be the primary focus of anyone planning to reach that stage.

She hasn't given me a dollar amount yet, but I'm willing to bet it won't be over 5k. That's fine by me! :D

PS. I'd be interested to see some statistics on extravagant weddings vs. divorce rates, ie. of those people who spent 100k vs. 5k, who stayed married longer?

June 15th, 2006, 02:47 PM
My wedding was between $7,000.00 and $10,000.00 in 1981. (Depending on when you ask my mom ! ;) , but I think it's closer to the 7,000) But I live in New Jersey and prices in this area are pretty high. I had 100 guests. I trimmed some of what was offered at the reception. Who needs soup in August? I closed the bar during the dinner, and had wine on the tables instead. That sort of thing. They offered dessert in addition to the cake--skipped that also. I got one spray of flowers for the church. I purchased small sprays for my bridesmaids and wove them through lace fans I picked up at a discount. I didn't have limos, didn't get my nails done. So that was the price of a very nice--but certainly not over the top, wedding.

I have a son and a daughter, both in their twenties. I can't even imagine how I'm going to pay for his rehearsal dinner let alone her wedding !!:eek:

June 15th, 2006, 02:49 PM
Lianne CatherinePS. I'd be interested to see some statistics on extravagant weddings vs. divorce rates, ie. of those people who spent 100k vs. 5k, who stayed married longer?

That's such a good point. If people put half the thought, money and effort into preparing for marriage as they do for a wedding I'd be willing to bet the divorce rates would go down !!

June 15th, 2006, 02:53 PM
I have a son and a daughter, both in their twenties. I can't even imagine how I'm going to pay for his rehearsal dinner let alone her wedding !!
Anyway, she wants it to be as cheap as possible (obviously) since she's paying for it

Do parents really still pay for their kids weddings? I thought it was sorta standard custom nowadays to pay for your own wedding, no? I mean, I know my parents may want to chip in...but the financial burden is completely on me and my bf....WE decide what kinda wedding we want, so WE pay for it!

June 15th, 2006, 03:16 PM
Not including the honeymoon our wedding cost under 5000 -

if I can remember right band 1000
booze about 1000
church 100
reception venue free (at my parents)
dress free (was my moms)
food 500 - 1000
flowers maybe 500
photographer 1000

hubbies family paid for the rehearsal dinner - it was a chinese smorgassbord at a chinese restraunt

June 15th, 2006, 03:18 PM
I forgot my brother in law drove us from the church in his Jag so that was free too

and someone forgot to take me and my brides maids to the church so we were whisked there at the last minute in my moms cleaning ladies car - that was full of cleaning stuff and other things.

June 15th, 2006, 03:53 PM
it was a chinese smorgassbord at a chinese restraunt

sorry... couldn't help it, giggle giggle... i'm sure you mean "smorgasbord" and not the, um, other thing? :D :D

June 15th, 2006, 04:05 PM
That's it I'm eloping.....

I do have some restrictions however...NO ELVIS!!!!!!!!!!!!! (The boyfriend disagrees)


jesse's mommy
June 15th, 2006, 04:12 PM
I do have some restrictions however...NO ELVIS!!!!!!!!!!!!! (The boyfriend disagrees)

Actually we were torn between getting married on a beach in the Bahamas or by Elvis in Vegas. I'll let you know what the final decision is when we finally do it. :eek:

June 15th, 2006, 04:13 PM
My wedding cost about $40 almost 41yrs ago:D
Hubbie and I,2 friends as witnesses,3 bottles of champagne a bowl of pop-corn at the neighborhood bar,now that's cheap:thumbs up

June 15th, 2006, 04:26 PM
We got married last summer, it cost us just under $10 000, we did alot of the prep ourselves and hand made alot of stuff. People can't believe that we managed to have a relatively cheap (and beautiful) wedding in Toronto. We had both the wedding and reception at the same location (a conservation area) which reduces costs and aggravation for guests.
i think that nowadays most couples pay for it themselves, people are getting married later ,therefore are usually set careerwise and can afford to pay for it themselves. We had some help from our parents.

June 15th, 2006, 05:40 PM
My wedding had cost $3K and I bailed on it 3 weeks before the date. My folks were pissed but less so when they realized it could've been more expensive in the long run, they let me off the hook. I'll never plan a wedding ever again, I'll elope first :D

June 15th, 2006, 06:37 PM
Yep, it's wedding season. I still haven't found a job since graduating at the beginning of May and my god do these weddings cost the "entourage" a fortune! I figure for one friend's wedding this summer, I'll be out $350 (at least) plus 5 days. FIVE days!! That's a lot of time to expect from somebody no? With the shower (+gift), bachelorette ($$$$), rehearsal dinner (+gift for the host plus dish for the pot luck), day before the wedding group manicure ($$$$), wedding day hair and make-up ($$$$), transport to the wedding (it's out of town), wedding (gift), etc etc, not to mention the bridesmaid dress and fitting!! And that's just ONE- I have three this summer.

I want to elope now or get married at city hall, not because it's what I really always wanted but I just can't put the people around me through this. The meaning gets lost in all the etiquette and expectation. And that is not for me at all.

June 15th, 2006, 07:44 PM
BF and I already planned our wedding, just no date yet. We want it under $700, preferably. We are only inviting immediate family, and our best friends, so less than 25 ppl total. We want to have it at this local restaurant that used to be an inn. It's on a nice property and has all these small rooms for small intimate gatherings. We are going to have a sunrise wedding and brunch. Pretty simple. No band. No dancing. No booze, except maybe some champagne.

June 15th, 2006, 08:12 PM
Weddings seem to be more of a "coming of age" ritual than anything. There doesn't seem to be much thought given to the marriage anymore. Thousand of $'s just for the dress seems obscene when you realize it's just for one wearing.

June 15th, 2006, 09:15 PM
I eloped 7 years ago. It cost about next to nothing and we have no regrets.

June 15th, 2006, 10:02 PM
$ chapel.....done....we used the money we would have spent on a downpayment on our first house.....why spend thousands for others to have a good time.......when was the last time you bought the whole bar a round ?.......i also think that some people who have elaborate weddings are looking for big gifts..jmo

June 15th, 2006, 10:02 PM
This is gonna really stand out on this site, but the wedding dress i want is somewhere in the ball park figure of .............. Get ready for this. $2000.
Just the dress. I'll post a pic of it in a bit

June 15th, 2006, 10:07 PM
Found it!, its beautiful!!

June 15th, 2006, 10:15 PM
With the shower (+gift), bachelorette ($$$$), rehearsal dinner (+gift for the host plus dish for the pot luck), day before the wedding group manicure ($$$$), wedding day hair and make-up ($$$$), transport to the wedding (it's out of town), wedding (gift), etc etc, not to mention the bridesmaid dress and fitting!! And that's just ONE- I have three this summer.

I can see maybe bringing a small (inexpensive) hostess gift but should I bridesmaid be asked to bring a dish as well?? And I strongly believe that if the bride wants the girls to have the hair and make-up session she should gift it.

I remember that when I got married I'd already been through the expense of a few weddings and I wanted to be as nice as I could for my bridesmaids. I told them to choose any dress they all agreed on. I hated it but I figured they were the ones who were paying for it. They just picked the cheapest one. They asked what I wanted for a shower gift and I showed them an inexpensive set of flatware. It was 15 bucks. They chipped in for that. My mother and our best man's mother made almost all the food for the shower.

Within the next year and a half they all got married. There wasn't one gown under 150 dollars and the wedding party had no say whatsoever. Just show up with your money. I picked your gown. When it was time for the shower one of the girls chose an 800 dollar vacuum system.

You can go broke having good friends !!:rolleyes:

June 15th, 2006, 10:24 PM
Oddly enough, I'm finally planning to get legally married after 9 years of common-law bliss. Never wanted a big wedding anyways, and have felt married for years, so...there was always something else to put the money towards, like the house, the kid, moving.

We're waiting on his decree of divorce from the court so we can go to city hall and be married by the clerk. About 300$. If it wasn't for the fact the our daughter wants to be there, I'd be all for hopping a plane to Vegas-just no Elvis.

I started to plan a small wedding years ago and gave up because of the "Oh, but you have to invite so and so." and "If you invite him, you have to invite her or she'll be mad." crap. Too much stress. And I worked with a girl who spent the year before her wedding in tears most of the time because of details and family fights and so on. No way!

The only people who need to be there are us, and the only people who have a right to know about the ceremony and details are us and any more children that may come.

How unromantic am I?:D

June 15th, 2006, 10:29 PM
You can go broke having good friends !!:rolleyes:

I had friends years ago who almost bankrupted all their friends. Engagement party, 5 bridal showers (!), stag and doe and wedding-all with virtually the same guest list. It was brutal. By the time of the wedding, most of the friends had to chip in for one gift and explain "Sorry, we'll all broke". Awful.

June 15th, 2006, 11:41 PM
It's sad. The worst was hearing one of my best friends say "We're not registering so people will just give us cash." :eek: No meaning in that. I'll just get her a tacky vase on sale. lol

I told my friends that they'd find out about my wedding the day of. We were going to get married secretly and then have a sort of unofficial ceremony one day. We'd invite everybody for a dinner and then whoever cared enough to come would see us get married. Those who can't make the time for a regular dinner would miss it (i.e. everybody makes time for a wedding, even if they don't even like you).

True though- about going broke. You'd think your closest friends would understand if you weren't in a good financial situation, but they don't. It becomes all about "ME and MY memories of MY day" (at your expense). :rolleyes:

June 16th, 2006, 12:19 AM
We rented bridesmaids dresses at the same place that did the tuxes- quite a bit cheaper than asking them to pay for a dress they wouldn`t wear again- and we, well, actually, my folks, paid for them. We rented a hall, had a nice buffet and paid for beer & soda. I think the whole thing cost about $3000 (US) back in 1989.

I really think if a bride wants her attendants to wear expensive dresses she ought to be paying for them. Don`t know how the tradition of making the bridesmaids come up with that kind of money got started but it seems ridiculous.

June 16th, 2006, 01:02 AM
Think my parents weddign cost $500.. Grams made her dress, and the cake. UCW women did the reception.. Grampa was the minister in his church.. lol

It was super cheap in comparison to what I hear peopel spend. Any of those weddign tv shows where they are spending 25-50 grand frig...

June 16th, 2006, 06:19 AM
On a side note, my BF's brother and his wife spent $10,000 on their wedding. I don't know if it was the families (italian and philipino) but the amount they got in $$ and gifts more than paid for it. Lucky them....

June 16th, 2006, 06:33 AM
I do feel for many young people when wedding-season comes along,a young girl I worked with had 5 weddings in one summer,4 times bridesmaid.
Her boyfriend was "best man"a few times and their credit-cards were maxed out.I just cannot see the sense in that:evil:
I can understand a mom and dad wanting to give their son/daughter a beautiful wedding,if they have the money to do so,but the costs to young friends involved in the wedding-party can be shattering..
My wedding was more of a formality,I was kind of preggers:D but we knew we belonged together and 41 yrs later,we know we did the right thing.:thumbs up

June 16th, 2006, 07:16 AM
Oh, I would never give up the memories of my wedding day in a million years! It was a very special day. We worked to make it as reasonable as possible, and managed to spend less than $10,000 including honeymoon and everything. My mother and I did a lot of the decorating etc ourselves. I won a gift certificate for my dress in a draw!! Also, we did provide drinks but not open bar (neither of us enjoy seeing stumbling bumblers much). We saw it as a chance to give back to our families a little bit of the support they had given us throughout our relationship, as well as have a family reunion at Christmastime. It was well worth the money, and getting away together afterwards was great too.

We were a bit older and had worked a few years too, so we were able to spend that amount (with some help from parents) and still make our down payment.

June 16th, 2006, 10:24 AM
I was in my cousin's wedding which was on Christmas Eve. On the plus side, a huge family reunion - relatives we don't get to see often because of distance. The down side - waking up in a hotel room on Christmas Day and that my hubby totally missed HIS family's Christmas festivities. Then again, a lot of couples have to choose which family to go to because it just isn't possible to be with both.

doggy lover
June 16th, 2006, 02:13 PM
With my wedding I paid for the bridesmaid dresses as my mother made them, all seven of them and that was her gift to us. A family member made my cake and iced it, if I remember right it was 3 layers and looked professionally done with lovebirds and so on, that was their gift to us. So there are ways of making things cheaper, even my great aunt croched flower baskets for my younger bridesmaids. It was a lovely wedding but I would never go through that again, if there is ever a next time I'll live in sin:evil:

June 16th, 2006, 02:28 PM
I was gonna open a thread about this to annouce my wedding that took place on June 10th (last saturday) but this is just as good a place as any.

I hope im not thread jacking.

We got married for about 4000 which included a two day stay ( in an expensive room), dinner for 30 guests and alcohol , brunch for the couple one day and breakfast in bed for the other day, two bride and groom robes, a couples massage for two. Bouquet, use of a bridal room, chapel for an hour.

We got married at the fallsview casino resort in Niagara falls. Basically bought the chapel package which included everything but the dinner which we had in the same complex and the photographer. The dinner costed 2500 with tip taxes and drinks (we are irish...... nuff said ). The fallsview hotel was the best hotel I had stayed in minues the I think Queen Elizabeth. We had fallsview on the 18th floor and when they do the fireworks at the falls (twice a week all summer) they were exploding literally in front of our windows. It was the best time I have ever had and the guest that came to our wedding all called and said that is the best wedding they had ever been too. We also hit the club in the complex after the dinner while the older guests hit the casino.

It was as perfect as can be and went way better then expected. Maybe a little expensive for just 25 - 30 guests but it was intimate, everyone got bonbonieres worth 12 dollars each, good food, good times. Oh yes and my dress was 1000 dollars. But my parents for each kids wedding gives them 6000 that you can use either towards the wedding or as a gift.

Heres the pic if I can post ....

June 16th, 2006, 02:35 PM
Do parents really still pay for their kids weddings? I thought it was sorta standard custom nowadays to pay for your own wedding, no? I mean, I know my parents may want to chip in...but the financial burden is completely on me and my bf....WE decide what kinda wedding we want, so WE pay for it!

It depends on how "old school" your family is. We are pretty traditional, but I agree that the trend is moving towards people paying for their own. Let's hope that happens AFTER my wedding 'cause I sure don't have any money! :eek:

doggy lover
June 16th, 2006, 02:38 PM
Luvmypit congrats.

June 16th, 2006, 02:51 PM
luvmypit, how lovely! congratulations!

June 16th, 2006, 02:59 PM
My parents are urging me to elope.....


At some point I wouldn't mind the whole white dress-family-dinner-wedding-reception deal but my parents can't afford to help pay and well the boyfriend's might, but I wouldn't expect it....oh and the boy and I are faaaaaarrrrr too poor at the moment to afford much....

Maybe for our like 25th anniversary or something I can convince people to come to an actual wedding like thing....maybe more of a reaffirmation of vows or something (and well after 25 years we may just need the reminder!)


P.S. congrats btw....duh I'm an idiot!

June 16th, 2006, 03:08 PM
Thanks doggy lover, dtb and pheonix! I dont want to thread jack but wanted since I literally just got married let people know how much mine cost.

I am so glad I did it this way. I would have been too stressed to enjoy it had I had the whole church reception thing.

June 16th, 2006, 05:00 PM
wow luvmypit, beautiful wedding photo & congrats!! :thumbs up

jesse's mommy
June 16th, 2006, 05:39 PM


June 16th, 2006, 08:07 PM
Congrats from me too luvmypit,gorgeous dress!As for me, I don't want to get married,ever,but I do want the diamond ring.You know what they say;a diamond is forever!:thumbs up

June 16th, 2006, 08:37 PM
frenchy, do what i did... get engaged, wear the gorgeous ring, and just live together as if you *were* married :D

June 16th, 2006, 10:28 PM
Congrats, luvmypit! I'm glad you did your day your way and enjoyed it all. Sounds amazing! Good for you! :party:

technodoll, I've been doing the same as you for years. Basically, it comes down to protecting my legal rights to our property, as sad as that sounds. Twice now there have been close calls with my man, and it seems better to spend a little bit now for a legal process than thousands if anything should happen to him-and I would be fighting against my stepdaughter's (who is really my kid in all ways but biology) interests. Not worth it. So, it's finally off to get legally married for us.

June 16th, 2006, 10:37 PM
Basically, it comes down to protecting my legal rights to our property, as sad as that sounds

totally agree with you on that... specially when any children are involved... i too would tie the legal bow if i needed to protect anything. for now though we're ok as is (no kids and none coming) and assets are well defined... we're content with our status quo and are very lucky to be in this situation (both partners agreeing on it). :o every situation is different! i still looove my ring though... feel safe with it. :)

June 16th, 2006, 10:46 PM
congratulations, luvmypit!

We didn't want to make our attendants pay too much for our wedding, the bridesmaids dresses were like $200, they helped me choose them, i didn't care what kind of shoes they wore. My brother's GF did our makeup, and getting hair professionally done was optional, although everyone opted to do it. The guy's tuxes were cheap $75, we got a deal when we were at the bridal show in T.O.. My dress was only $400, not bad. We managed not to impose on our friends too much. But we didn't do things according to "etiquette" at any point during our whole process, otherwise they could have been paying through the nose for OUR wedding, we couldn't do that to our friends. Hell, even when we were registering we were like "would you pay that much for a toaster?" Why make a guest pay that much, if you wouldn't pay it yourself? In the end it didn't matter anyways cause we hardly got anything off the registry anyways.

We originally thought that we would have a destination wedding with only immediate family and close friends, but our parents wanted us to have a wedding here so that everyone could come. We sometimes wish that we had gone away. Planning a wedding takes alot of time and it's fairly stressfull, the 8 months before our wedding was pretty much a write off for doing our usual spring/summer camping and hiking trips or having a normal social life. Our evenings and weekends were taken up with buying things, making calls and making our invitations, gifts for guests, making the programs, making decorations, and trying to make sure everyone else was happy with our decisions.

June 17th, 2006, 04:09 PM
Congrats Luvmypit!!! Sounds like it was a fun wedding..

Personally, I don't mind when the couple spends a fortune. That's totally fine. Spend all you want. But what I have a problem with is when you spend tons of money to have your wedding "just so" and then expect everybody around you to fork out piles of money to fit into your perfect wedding. That's where my issue lies- when guests who are supposedly important are snubbed or expected to go into debt because they can't afford to go to your wedding.

June 17th, 2006, 05:49 PM
Congratulations Luvmypit! Your wedding photo is beautiful! Beautiful bride, beautiful groom, beautiful . . . who is the girl?

June 17th, 2006, 10:53 PM
hmm let me see if i can recall all of our costs ... i never have looked at the total expense at all so now I'm curious myself.

Medeival themed, costumed wedding with mascarade ball ... wedding on rock cliffs, reception at a museum - outdoors

Invitations - $200
Cake - free from friend
Photographer - $1200
Dress - $300
Grooms Costume - $250
Dogs tux - 30
Limo - $120
Hotel room - $120
Museum ( included tents, chairs and tables) $700
DJ - $400
Band at reception - $300
Food- free from friends in catering biz
cliffs ceremony location - $80 (provincial park)
Officiant $200
Bridal attire (shoes garter jewelery etc) - $200
Cake Topper - $150
Take home gifts ( masks for the masquerade ) $200
Videographer - $250 (still haven't got it and we're almost a yr married)
my daughters flower girl costume - $100
Flowers for decorations - free ( used all sorts of wild dried flowers)
Decorations for museum - $400 - tents, lights, table runners, table cloths, medieval flags
Gifts for wedding party - $400
Rings - $750
Ringbearer attire and pillow - $100
Horse to ride in on - ( supposed to be $100 but it got spooked and took off HAHAHA GLAD I WASN"T ON IT!)
Hair - $300
ummm unfirtunately i know theres more but I can't remember - the best part was the total is ummmm

too much. and i hate math .. but the funny thing is

engagement ring - $500

Wedding - thousands

HANGOVER and a Groom who had to wear his roman gladiator costume home the next morning because he forgot to pack clothes - PRICELESS!!!!!

June 17th, 2006, 11:09 PM
Congratulations, luvmypit!! :D

PEDPA, your wedding sounds like it was awesome. Poor guy, having to go home as a Roman gladiator! LOL!

I would never spend a lot of money on a wedding . . . My memory of past events is miserable, so it's not like I'd recall it anyway. ;)

June 18th, 2006, 09:57 AM
Technodoll,I did get engage couple of years back but only got a silver band out of it,wrong ring,wrong man!;) Actualy,we didn't have a lot of money and got both silver bands,still have mine,it had more sentimental value than anything else.

June 18th, 2006, 10:28 AM
Do people still do the whole 'the bride's parents pay for the wedding' thing? My parents didn't have that kind of cash lying around. Luckily, we did the 'Italian wedding' thing, so we received enough money as gifts to pay for the wedding.

I'll tell you what, though. If I had to do it all over again, it would be completely different. The only thing I did right was the horse-drawn carriage. The rest of it sucked royally. :yuck:

June 20th, 2006, 01:13 PM
Thanks ya'll!! Appreciate the congrats!! Little girl is now offically my stepdaughter who I have taken care of for now 3 years.

I like medievil one. I would love to see the faces of people as he gets out to pump gas in a gladiator

June 20th, 2006, 01:47 PM
Congrats Luvmypit, you have a beautiful family. I'm with W4F I would completly change everything. We have been married now for almost 2yrs now,we've been together for 11yrs two kids 4yrs & 2.5yrs (you can do the math) both of our parents didn't have $$$ just laying around so we paid for most of it ourselves, our kids were in the party, that part I wouldn't change.I didn't think I wanted the dress and works but in the end I did then of course with all the stress I wish I had opted for the other, we had an evening wedding and cut out alot of stuff that we didn't see that was needed