Pets.ca - Pet forum for dogs cats and humans 

-->

Another BYB

Mahealani770
June 14th, 2006, 10:32 AM
Hello friends,
I'm not sure if I'm posting this question in the right place, but I'll ask it anyway. A lady in my apartment complex started talking to me, as I was walking Nicky and she was walking her 2 Shih-Tzus, about how she wants to breed her dogs and how much I thought she could get for them. I was frantically trying to remember everything I've learned in this forum and repeat it to her to try and deter her from doing that.
Can someone give me a list of questions that I can ask her or a list of points that I can go over with her as far as why she shouldn't breed because or "this, this, and that"?
I tried to talk to her about genetics testing and how she really needed to spay and neuter her dogs, but all she cared about was how much she could get for the pups. I was just disgusted as I walked away from her.
I'd love to stick some information on her door to try and persuade her to not do this. Any information that I can pass on to her would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks,
Mahealani

LM1313
June 14th, 2006, 10:36 AM
Don't small dogs often have problems giving birth? And don't you have to be extra, extra careful to choose a male who's smaller then the female? Just off the top of my head!

I hope you can persuade her otherwise . . . How disgusting that all she cared about was $$$! :(

technodoll
June 14th, 2006, 11:43 AM
here you go! :thumbs up

http://www.jlhweb.net/Boxermap/reputablebreeder.html

i'd print this and point out which column she definitely falls in!! in a bright yellow marker! :evil:

jessi76
June 14th, 2006, 12:06 PM
A lady in my apartment complex started talking to me, as I was walking Nicky and she was walking her 2 Shih-Tzus, about how she wants to breed her dogs and how much I thought she could get for them.

just point out the fact that she's asking random people what they think she should charge for her willy-nilly breeding. that right there is a clear indication she doesn't know what she's doing, thus, has NO BUSINESS breeding anything.

technodoll
June 14th, 2006, 12:39 PM
here is some more info to educate this ignorant person:

The Backyard Breeders' and Puppy Millers' Big Book of Old Excuses
Denna Pace 2001

1. When called on bad breeding practices, ALWAYS claim that you are merely an innocent posting as a favor to a friend or family member.

2. Point out that everybody you know breeds this way, therefore it must be
okay.

3. Claim that "snobby show breeders" are only criticizing you because they
want to corner the market on puppy profit.

4. Claim that a Champion in the pedigree is just as good as 56 Champions in the pedigree. Not that it matters, because you doubt that there is such a
thing as a dog with 56 champions in the pedigree.

5. Claim that you are just trying to produce good pets, therefore good pets
are all you need for breeding.

6. When asked about health testing, enthusiastically point out that your
bitch had a health checkup before breeding.

7. Be sure to mention that you do not need to run such health tests as OFA,
CERF, thyroid, cardiac, patellae, etc., because your dogs look healthy and
had no visible problems at their last vet checkup.

8. Point out that these tests cost too much and would cut into your profit
margin. Be sure to champion the right of poor people to breed dogs.

9. Confidently assure worried rescuers that no puppy you produce, or any of
their puppies or grand puppies or great-grandpuppies will end up in shelters
because you have a bunch of friends who have told you that they'd like a pup
from your bitch.

10. Point out that you don't need Championships or working titles on your
dogs because you are breeding for temperament and your dog is really sweet.

11. Silence those annoying people who ask about your health guarantee by
assuring them that buyers can return any sick puppies and you will replace
it with another pup as long as it got sick within a certain amount of time
of sale and as long as you don't think the buyer did something to make the
puppy sick.

12. If your breed or line is rare (or you have a "rare" color, or believe
your breed or color is rare), be sure to remind everyone that you do not
need to show, temperament test, or health test your breeding stock because
you are doing the world a service by continuing this "rare" breed/color/line.

13. No matter what anyone else says, claim that you obviously know what you are doing because you've been breeding for a long time. Point to the
hundreds of puppies you've pumped out over the years as proof.

14. If this is your first attempt at breeding, make sure to remind everyone
that you HAVE to breed your dog because how else are you going to learn how to breed?

15. Assure everyone that your dog does not need to be shown because you were assured by someone at Petsmart/the park/the vet's office/a friend that your dog is a perfect example of the breed.

16. Always remember that "rare" colors, oversized or undersized dogs, and
mixes of popular breeds are great selling points. Anyone who doesn't think
so is obviously not in tune with their customers' wishes.

17. Claim that your dogs are better because they are not inbred, as
inbreeding obviously produces sick/stupid/deformed dogs. If breeding poo [as in "Cock-a-Poo," "Peek-a-Poo," etc.] dogs or other mutts, always point to "hybrid vigor" as proof of your dogs' superiority.

18. Remind everyone that you do not need a waiting list because your puppies are cute.

19. Assure everyone that your puppies will not end up in shelters because
they are cute.

20. Claim that YOUR breed never ends up in shelters in your area, therefore
your puppies will never end up in shelters.

21. If asked why you think your dogs are breeding quality, point out that
they "have papers." Extra points awarded for using the phrase "AKC
Certified." Double points if those papers come from the Continental Kennel
Club.

22. If you sell a sick puppy, always blame the owners for making it sick. If
the owners are clearly not responsible, blame their vet. (see #11)

23. If presented with irrefutable evidence proving you wrong on any excuses
you have used, pretend your server did not receive the post/e-mail.

24. Claim that none of the rules of ethical breeding apply to you because
you only intend to have one litter and therefore aren't a "real" breeder.

25. If all else fails, tell everyone who criticizes you to "get a life."

Written by Denna Pace . It was compiled by reading the horrible BYB ads on rec.pets.dogs.breed. Please credit when quoting.

phoenix
June 14th, 2006, 12:53 PM
Go to petfinder, maybe show her that in Georgia alone, there are at least 100 shih-tzu's looking for homes that will definitely cut into her income potential (ya right). The market is flooded!

Mahealani770
June 14th, 2006, 01:04 PM
Ok, thanks everyone. I'm on it!:fingerscr

OntarioGreys
June 14th, 2006, 10:43 PM
This lady is only thinking $ signs, the way to reach her is showing her that it quite likely that having a litter could cost her money instead and she may think twice about it, her costs if things go wrong could reach $5000 and there may be no pups to sell at the end


for example most cannot whelp their pups without vet assistance, have her check with her vet how much he would charge.

if the birthing begins at midnight, is the vet going to be available if not that may mean a trip to an Emergency vet a birthing can last for 12 or more hours which means it will cost big $$$$ especially if complications occur and thier is the risk she may lose her female.


Typically 25% of pups will die or be stillborn in the first week. A bitch with a first litter may refuse to feed her pups, which means either finding and hiring a another dog to nurse or trying to hand feed in which case rarely do pups survive if.

This is a good site about what can go wrong during a birth

http://www.debbiejensen.com/whelping_trouble.html



THen there is the smaller costs which will add up puppy food both for mother and pups, vitamins supplements, deworming of mom and the pups 1st vacc for the pups which also means a vet visit for all the pups, available clean linens especially for the first couple of weeks and other whelping supplies http://www.debbiejensen.com/whelping_trouble.html

now for the next problem she could find she has pups with birth defects like cleft palate or a common proble, in shih tzus is portosystemic liver shunt which is a congenital malformation of the veins that bring blood to the liver.
There is only one way to cure a portosystemic shunt--surgery. Most veterinarians refer patients with portosystemic shunts to soft tissue surgery specialists. Surgical treatment of the disease involves identifying the abnormal blood vessel (shunt) and closing it. Of course, it's not that simple. It all depends on the degree of normal circulation left and the condition of the liver.