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magic wand needed, please- mouthy dog

dmc123
June 13th, 2006, 09:28 PM
I would love to have a magic wand - to train Simon to quit being so mouthy!

He really is a good boy, and has learned to be a wonderful part of this crazy, animal filled household. We still have his training scheduled for July but at times his "talking back" and being mouthy is so hard to stand.

I have read so many different articles - ignore him, put him on a leash, splash water on him, teach him to bark on command - then to be quiet on command.

Ok, it is hard to do. I have two other dogs, three cats inside, and two adults who can't decide what "to try" tonight. I know we need to decide together and stick to a routine, poor Simon, but I don't know the best thing to try.

Simon is very high energy, and we do try to get him playing alot, tossing balls or toys...but his energy goes far longer than either of us.

The training he is scheduled for is simple obedience/manners training. I hope to learn much more than he does.

In the meantime, any other ideas you all have on stopping the "talking back" is very welcomed.

He loves his voice as much as I love him. No one could have "left" a boy on my street sweeter than this guy. That was October, so he's been here since then.

Diane

This is Simon. Who could leave a face like this?

SnowDancer
June 14th, 2006, 08:29 AM
I need a magic wand as well. My 2 year old Eskimo is very smart (hardest to train of course) and very stubborn. He excelled at treat based training - and how I wished he had not had such training. He just started private training at home - first official session was yesterday. Such a surprise - he definitely knows the Down command, but no cookie, no Down. Well when you do non-treat based training it is hard and the look of reproach and pleas for help he gave me were horrible. As I toured the first floor starting with Heel and then ending in a sit and then trying for the down, I was pushing on his shoulders, pulling at leash, finally trying to pull down his front paw. This dog weighs 24 lbs. and no way was he moving. So trainer took over. Took a few minutes but he got the point - much more pleasant to comply - and then he trotted around the house with her - heeling perfectly, sitting perfectly and then going in Down position perfectly - and staying Down - okay a few inches from her. Then my turn again - he complied, but as we turned corner to come back into living room where she was, he tried to get out of Dodge and head to the basement. We are to practice Down for 2 weeks - getting my husband to do it - and do it in the manner we are paying to have him trained will be the most difficult. My he was a good boy though after she left. Husband has been out of town for 5 days so my guy's feelings are hurt as well - although if I go to the corner it is the end of the world. I really support non-treat based training though because the day will come when you will have to give up on the treats and that will be the day you will find out what your dog won't do. Understanding the commands is one thing - doing them without being bribed is another. Not looking forward to round 2 of Down training today. Next visit we are doing "Place" command. This should be good. His place is wherever I am sitting. Guess we will use his Deluxe little sofa style bed which for some reason he hasn't chewed - an exception, trust me. Might be because they have same beds at groomer's where he goes for socialization once a week so he knows - DON'T. Eskies have very big teeth.

jessi76
June 14th, 2006, 11:21 AM
I would love to have a magic wand - to train Simon to quit being so mouthy!

He really is a good boy, and has learned to be a wonderful part of this crazy, animal filled household. We still have his training scheduled for July but at times his "talking back" and being mouthy is so hard to stand.

explain how & why this is happening if you can. Is Simon physically nipping you? or is he barking/groaning (complaining) when you give a command? what provokes the "talking back"? end of play? come in from outside? ask for a sit? more info would help.

I have read so many different articles - ignore him, put him on a leash, splash water on him, teach him to bark on command - then to be quiet on command.

Ok, it is hard to do. I have two other dogs, three cats inside, and two adults who can't decide what "to try" tonight. I know we need to decide together and stick to a routine, poor Simon, but I don't know the best thing to try.

how is ignoring him HARD to do? that should be the easiest thing to do. especially with so many more animals to focus on in your home. I'm not saying "ignoring" WILL work, just that it shouldn't be hard to do.

we can't give you any magic wand, or magic advice. Training takes consistancy and time, and EVERYONE must be on the same page. When I attend training w/ my dog, even though I am the only one who handles, my bf comes to watch each class, so he KNOWS the techniques also. so we BOTH follow through using the SAME methods at home. this really makes all the difference.

Lissa
June 14th, 2006, 01:12 PM
I agree with Jessi76 - ignoring should be the easiet way to extinguish a behaviour.
I also use a "negative reinforcer sound" like "Uh-oh" or "AH!" which stops my dog from continuing what he was doing (and causes him to evaluate things and try to figure out what I want him to do).
It is hard to suggest anything without knowing the extent of the problem but if it is relatively minor in that Simon is bored and not actually harming (just being a bit of a nuissance:p )...I would teach him the "settle" command (which basically means go relax)!
Have you tried interactive toys to keep him busy?
I would also do some mentally stimulating exercises, to expand his vocabulary...try trick training or perhap teaching him to fetch certain objects. You will be surprised how exhasuting it is for a dog to use his brain!;) If you clicker train, I would try the box game - which is basically where you shape all sorts of different behaviours with a simple carboard box!

I really support non-treat based training though because the day will come when you will have to give up on the treats and that will be the day you will find out what your dog won't do.

If your dog will only listen for a cookie, then you have done something wrong! Your dog is not suppose to know that you are carrying treats, let alone when he will get one. Treat training is not about bribing - unfortunately, too many people show their dog the food before asking for a behaviour because they get immediate attentivenes (which is not at all how positive reinforcement works!!) The correct idea is to not let your dog know when they will get a treat by rewarding on a variable schedule and eventually extinguishing the reward (or only rewarding for the best examples of a behaviour). Treat training is not a forever thing - if you depend on treats for a well behaved dog, then you have gone wrong somewhere!

dmc123
June 14th, 2006, 05:19 PM
Thanks all who wrote. Sorry for the confusion on the mouthy, he just barks a lot. Not nippy or biting us.

He does it mostly when he is bored and no one is playing with him. He is fine while we play or if he is playing with Delaney (other dog). He is really high energy, as I said, he tires us all out.

As for ignoring him, turning my back on him, I know it won't be an immediate fix, but when he keeps on barking, regardless of being ignored, the other dogs join in on occasion. Kinda annoying.

I have had some luck using the "quiet" and "settle" command. I usually say quiet, then call him over to me and he is quiet for a little bit. He gets a lot of praise then.

He should be starting a 6 week training on June 27th yippee!! They just called to make sure we still want him in this session. I hope to learn so much from a trainer that knows more than I do. It sure can't hurt.

I know there is no magic wand, it was said partially to be funny. Just wanted to hear some of the things folks have done - successfully.

Diane

jessi76
June 14th, 2006, 07:04 PM
He should be starting a 6 week training on June 27th yippee!! They just called to make sure we still want him in this session. I hope to learn so much from a trainer that knows more than I do. It sure can't hurt.

ohhhhhh, now I understand! thanks for clearing it up! I think training is the answer you need, and that's GREAT that you're already signed up. Training really tires them out, and then when you're at home, and he's being mouthy, simply practice training! I do it often. my dog is just over a year, and he gets bored sometimes, so I hide a favorite toy, and we play hide & seek, BUT the catch is we work on commands during the game.... using his brain AND playing a game does the trick for curbing boredom and wearing him out a little.

good luck w/ the training and keep us posted on your progress!

dmc123
June 14th, 2006, 07:29 PM
Thanks jessi76, I sure will.

muckypup
June 14th, 2006, 08:26 PM
If you want a magic wand get a bark collar. I suggest training him "Quite" or "NO bark."

we3beagles
June 15th, 2006, 02:10 PM
Fill a pop can full of pennies and duct tape the top. Everytime Simon barks at you shake the can at him. It has cured all my dogs and my foster of barking without provocation. If there is something to bark at I let them have two barks and then shake the can. You will never get a dog to stop barking (how would you like being told to shut up all the time), but you can teach them to bark at things they should. It only took two weeks of consistancy and what a difference. :D

dmc123
June 15th, 2006, 08:32 PM
Thanks we3beagles! I read that suggestion about the can with coins somewhere, but haven't tried it. I did tonight. Boy, does that get his and the other dogs' attention! I will try it for a couple of weeks.

Thanks again,
Diane

dmc123
June 16th, 2006, 09:44 PM
I am so amazed. !!!!! After adding coins inside a can, and shaking it...it really got Simon's attention. Rudy and Delaney take notice too. I / we haven't had a single nuisance bark since last night.

Will keep you updated, but so far....amazing. He and we, hate that sound.

Thanks again.
Diane

kaytris
June 16th, 2006, 11:08 PM
For the annoying attention seeking barking, I love this solution:

Okay, dog, you want my attention? You got it! It's puppy-push up time - SIT! DOWN! STAND! SIT! SIT ! DOWN! DOWN! STAND! SIT!

3-5 minutes of pushups, then give him very quiet, subdued, praise, and walk away. Works like a charm for most dogs!