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Teeth Turning Black

rainbow
June 7th, 2006, 02:37 PM
The back molars of my lab are turning black. We went to the vet on Monday but she was off that day. We went to get some groceries and, by chance, I ran into her. She came out to the truck to have a look and of course Chase wouldn't keep still plus our other dog (who loves our vet) wanted to help.

She couldn't get a good enough look so said she would stop by our house after agility class. After getting a better look Monday night, she said it's not tartar and looks like something wrong with the enamel. :eek:

He needs to have xrays done and she will consult with a specialist. We can't get an appointment until Friday for the xrays. I'm just so upset. That's why I haven't logged in here for the last couple of days. :(

Why do these things always happen at the worst time. Hubby's been off work since September. We had to get a new stove $$$ in November. Our husky got real sick $$$ in December. Last month the lawnmower gave out $$$ and a week later the fridge went kaput $$$. And now this. $$$ I really think somebody up there doesn't like me. :p

Anyways, has anyone ever had a dog whose teeth enamel turned black?

technodoll
June 7th, 2006, 03:11 PM
awe man... when it rains, it pours :mad:

dunno if this is any help at all, but it's got alot of info on teeth... prevention... cases... etc...

http://www.lbah.com/dent.htm

Discolored Teeth
Discolored teeth are seen in some pets. This can be caused by diseases like Distemper, the administration of certain antibiotics during the first few months of life, or trauma. If you notice discolored teeth please bring your pet in for an exam to determine the cause of the problem and if treatment should be instituted.


please keep us posted, am curious to know what it is & hope it's not serious, your pocketbook needs a break! :o

Prin
June 7th, 2006, 04:16 PM
Aww, that sucks! I hope it's nothing serious.

OntarioGreys
June 7th, 2006, 05:26 PM
Is your dog by any chance on daily meds?

Have you ever had your water tested, high levels of flouride can cause staining http://www.alaskawellness.com/archives/flouride-pt1.htm

cpietra16
June 7th, 2006, 07:55 PM
I don't know about dogs but, .....my daughter was born without enamel on her back teeth and they turned black within weeks...we had them covered until they fall out...they're her baby teeth and my nephew got hit in the face while he was playing and his two front teeth turned black. The dentist said it happens when the nerve is damaged and they may be dying...again I am not sure if this can apply to dogs...good luck

meb999
June 7th, 2006, 10:32 PM
OMG! That sounds terrible! I've never heard of that... Please keep us posted!

We went to get some groceries and, by chance, I ran into her. She came out to the truck to have a look and of course Chase wouldn't keep still plus our other dog (who loves our vet) wanted to help.

She couldn't get a good enough look so said she would stop by our house after agility class. After getting a better look Monday night, she said it's not tartar and looks like something wrong with the enamel.

Wow! That's some dedicated vet! And I thought mine was nice....

rainbow
June 8th, 2006, 01:18 PM
Thanks everyone. :)

Is your dog by any chance on daily meds?

Have you ever had your water tested, high levels of flouride can cause staining http://www.alaskawellness.com/archives/flouride-pt1.htm

No, he's not on daily meds. We are on well water and it has been tested.

dunno if this is any help at all, but it's got alot of info on teeth... prevention... cases... etc...

http://www.lbah.com/dent.htm

Good website.

my nephew got hit in the face while he was playing and his two front teeth turned black. The dentist said it happens when the nerve is damaged and they may be dying...again I am not sure if this can apply to dogs

Interesting. I'll mention it to my vet. Chase and Logan play very rough together. He also chews on anything he can get his mouth on including the deck which is treated wood. :eek: I did mention that to my vet. Logan also chews on it (didn't before we got Chase) and his teeth are okay. But now I'm wondering if it could be because Logan is six months older than Chase and already had his adult teeth when he started. Chase has his now but when he first started chewing it was when he was teething. So I'll go over that with my vet again. Does anyone have any opinions/ideas?

Wow! That's some dedicated vet!

Yes, I know. She has gone above and beyond so many times for me. I don't drive :o so when hubby is out of town she always goes out of her way for me. I can't say enough good things about her. :angel:

rainbow
June 9th, 2006, 11:26 AM
Well, Chase is at the vet now. She picked him up on her way to work this morning so we wouldn't have to drive the 35 miles. :angel:

Logan, our husky, was so disappointed that he couldn't go too because he really likes her. :D

Anyways, I'll let you know later what the outcome is. :pawprint:

rainbow
September 4th, 2006, 01:17 PM
My vet took xrays and pics of his teeth and emailed them to the veterinary dentist in Vancouver. She didn't know what it could be and suggested we paint the teeth involved with some stuff that tells you whether or not it's spreading (don't know what it's called but it's pink and they also use it on humans). Anyways, whatever is wrong with him is not spreading.

The specialist is coming to town and we have an appointment this Thusday Sept. 7. We thought it would be better if she actually seen his teeth instead of just looking at pictures.

My vet thinks perhaps the specialist may be able to scrape away the black and put in composite fillings. My husband had composite fillings done and they didn't last. Has anyone had them done on a dog and, if so, was it worth it?

Prin
September 4th, 2006, 06:53 PM
Good luck. :fingerscr I've never had doggy fillings done before. :shrug:

rainbow
September 5th, 2006, 11:15 AM
Rainbow, I asked Dr Dumais about composite fillings on dog molars, and he said it laid entirely on technique. If the fillings were done properly by an expert in dentistry, they can and do hold for many years. BUT if the technique has one single little flaw in execution, the composite fillings will not hold and they will fall off quickly. He also said they did that sort of thing regularly and had no problems, because it was done right... i hope this will help you make an "on the spot" decision in two days?


Thanks TD.....I sure wish I lived in Montreal right now so we could go to Dr. Dumais. Hopefully, the dental specialist we see on Thursday is as good. I don't even know what she'll recommend yet. If it is composite fillings, I guess I can always ask her how many times she's done it. :p

Well, I guess all I can do is wait until Thursday. My lab is only 14 months old so I hope all goes well. Please wish me luck everyone. :fingerscr

technodoll
September 5th, 2006, 11:36 AM
good luck x ten, rainbow! :fingerscr

ask your vet what her success rate is on composite fillings... and if the work is guaranteed for at least a year, or something like that. :cool:

rainbow
September 6th, 2006, 01:18 PM
Thanks, TD, I will ask her that. Her name is Dr. Rochette. Isn't that French? Maybe that's a good sign. ;)

I'm thinking they can probably put some kind of sealant over ther fillings. :fingerscr

technodoll
September 6th, 2006, 01:22 PM
rainbow, here is some interesting info on composite fillings: http://www.avds-online.org/info/cavityrestorations.html

Feline oral resorptive lesions are not true cavities and are treated somewhat differently. Cavity treatment in dogs is very similar to the treatment in people. First, a dental radiograph is exposed to determine the extent of the decay and if there is root canal involvement. If there is endodontic involvement, then a root canal procedure is necessary prior to restoration. Next, using a high-speed dental bur (drill) all the diseased tooth structure is removed. Then, the cavity is prepared to accept the restoration (filling). Depending on the filling material used, an undercut is usually made to increase retention of the restorative. Next, a filling is placed in the defect. The filling is allowed to harden (cure). Finally, the restoration is finished by making the restoration conform to natural anatomy and smoothing the restoration to decrease plaque retention.

There are two basic types of restorative materials used for caries in dogs. The first is silver amalgam. This is the filling material that was used in human dentistry for years until recently. It is very hard and resistant to wear (even more than teeth are), however it does not create as good of a seal as composite fillings do. Composite fillings are the “white” fillings that most people get in cavities today. It is bonded to the tooth surface, and therefore is less likely to leak than amalgam. However it is not as tough as amalgam and can more easily be broken down. This is especially important in dogs where the bite force is much more than in people. Either material is acceptable depending on the case and operator preference. An additional restoration type is glass ionomer. This restorative is generally not strong enough for use in dogs, however will be used on occasion in areas that are low stress and susceptible to further carious decay. They may be used as a liner for composite restorations, as this will release fluoride and decrease the amount of composite needed. This is important as the composite will shrink slightly during polymerization (hardening), and this layer will decrease the amount of shrinkage.

rainbow
September 6th, 2006, 03:36 PM
Thanks so much for the info Technodoll.

My vet just called and she is coming over tonight after her agility class to drop off the xrays she took. The specialist sees her patients at a different veterinary clinic than the one my vet works at so at least I wont have to pay to have more xrays taken.

rainbow
September 6th, 2006, 11:57 PM
Well, my vet just dropped off the xrays and Chase goes to the specialist at 10:00am tomorow. I sure hope there is something that can be done for him. Please wish me luck. :fingerscr

Prin
September 7th, 2006, 01:04 AM
Good luck! :fingerscr Hope all goes well at the doggy dentist.

technodoll
September 7th, 2006, 09:28 AM
tapping foot, waiting for news... :rolleyes:

Smiley14
September 7th, 2006, 07:25 PM
Hi Rainbow! I"m so sorry to be so late in my response; I just saw this thread now! I am so very sorry to hear about all the problems you've been having lately! It's so frustrating how it seems like everything happens at once!
Your vet is AMAZING! What a blessed woman! And I am so happy to hear you were able to see the specialist today. I hope you were able to get some answers! I know how hard it is dealing with the waiting and wondering. Poor Chase! Let us know how things are going when you're able!

Steph

rainbow
September 8th, 2006, 12:17 PM
Well, there's nothing that we can do for Chase. :sad:

He doesn't have enough enamel on his teeth. Supposedly, when teeth develop, the enamel thickens gradually and because he was chewing on the wood every chance he got the enamel was getting worn down faster than it could grow. On top of that he has a close bite which increased the rubbing against the teeth.

The good news :shrug: is that the damage that has been done shouldn't get any worse. He can't have anything hard to chew on. Don't know what to give him as he doesn't like rubber. He only likes his kong if it has treats in it or canned dog food/yogurt and frozen so once the treats are gone he loses interest.

Prin
September 8th, 2006, 03:10 PM
Sorry.:( That's no fun.

What about ropes to chew on?

rainbow
September 8th, 2006, 03:16 PM
Yeah, I'm going to get him another one. They don't last long though, especially when he wants to play tug of war with the husky, so it's a good thing they're cheap. :D

chico2
September 8th, 2006, 03:35 PM
Rainbow,I just read all of your post now.
Sorry for all the trouble you are having.:sorry:
Just a dumb question,if the teeth have no enamel,no protection.Would they not eventually rot???
Would it not be easier on him to have them removed,so he could still chew on whatever he wants:confused:

Smiley14
September 8th, 2006, 05:14 PM
Thanks so much for the update. I'm sorry it's not better news for you. I was wondering the same thing as Chico...they can't remove those teeth? Poor Chase! Rope is the only thing that comes to my mind as well, I'm sorry I don't have any suggestions or advice for you! If I think of anything else, I'll let you know!

rainbow
September 8th, 2006, 05:52 PM
Chico and Steph and Prin

Thank you for your thoughts. He does have some enamel but it's not as thick as it should be because of chewing on wood and other hard things when he was young. The enamel was still developing and didn't get a chance to build up. :(

The roots and everything else is in excellent shape. She took pictures that she is going to email to my vet and myself for our records. We have to just keep checking them to see if they get damaged any further. She thinks the worst of the damage has already been done. There's a total of ten teeth involved (all molars and premolars) and, IMO, I think two of the teeth will eventually have to come out. :sad:

Smiley14
September 8th, 2006, 08:38 PM
Chico and Steph and Prin

Thank you for your thoughts. He does have some enamel but it's not as thick as it should be because of chewing on wood and other hard things when he was young. The enamel was still developing and didn't get a chance to build up. :(

The roots and everything else is in excellent shape. She took pictures that she is going to email to my vet and myself for our records. We have to just keep checking them to see if they get damaged any further. She thinks the worst of the damage has already been done. There's a total of ten teeth involved (all molars and premolars) and, IMO, I think two of the teeth will eventually have to come out. :sad:


Oh dear, I can't imagine Chase would be very happy to have all those teeth pulled! Two is bad enough I would imagine. :sad: But that is good news that it's just the enamel and the rest of the affected teeth are still healthy! He'll just have to adjust his diet a bit it sounds like. Hopefully you can find something that satisfies his need to chew!

Prin
September 8th, 2006, 11:17 PM
You'll just have to start saving for his gold implants.:o :D

rainbow
September 8th, 2006, 11:51 PM
Hmmm....maybe I can melt down my wedding band. :D

Prin
September 8th, 2006, 11:53 PM
lol Just get gold fillings covered by your dental plan, and then suck them out and melt them down for the dog. :shrug:

I'm kidding, of course. We'll just have to research canned food more in the meantime.:)

rainbow
September 9th, 2006, 12:30 AM
lol Just get gold fillings covered by your dental plan, and then suck them out and melt them down for the dog. :shrug:[QUOTE]

I'm a big chicken when it comes to dentists :o so I'd sooner melt down the gold band that doesn't fit anymore. :D

[QUOTE=Prin] I'm kidding, of course. We'll just have to research canned food more in the meantime.:)

But, hopefully, he'll still have all his teeth for a while yet. :D :fingerscr

chico2
September 9th, 2006, 07:05 AM
Oh no,I thought it was only 2 teeth,now I understand better.
Chase probably would not want to be toothless:sad:
This is something I've never heard of before,not that I know too much about dogs and teeth,as long as there is no pain or infections involved,he'll probably do fine:fingerscr

rainbow
September 9th, 2006, 02:07 PM
Chico, thank you for your kind thoughts. :)

Prin
September 9th, 2006, 09:00 PM
I'm a big chicken when it comes to dentists :o so I'd sooner melt down the gold band that doesn't fit anymore. :D
But, hopefully, he'll still have all his teeth for a while yet. :D :fingerscr
Doesn't fit physically or metaphorically? ;)

Hopefully he'll have his teeth for a long time. Researching canned foods could take years! :D ;)

rainbow
September 9th, 2006, 10:31 PM
LOL...both I guess. It was my very first cheapo plain gold 1/2 inch band from 1972 that cost $34. :crazy: Doesn't fit anymore cuz I'm 30 lb. heavier and my fingers are fatter so I guess I've morphed into a fatty physically. :D

Re the canned foods, I think I'd change to raw first. :D

rainbow
September 13th, 2006, 07:05 PM
The specialist emailed the photos she took and his teeth look worse in the pictures than they do in reality. :sad: I'm going to phone my vet tomorrow and ask her why. :confused:

technodoll
September 13th, 2006, 07:15 PM
what do you mean they look worse? these are photos, not xrays? :confused: :(

rainbow
September 13th, 2006, 10:15 PM
She took both. The xrays looked the same as the ones done three months ago by my vet. It's the photos that she emailed to me.

Sweetgrass
September 14th, 2006, 01:54 AM
Hi...I am sorry to hear about Chase's teeth....

As for chewing...
I have used the legs cut off old jeans, and then tied in a knot and frozen to make "teething jeans" for my dogs....

They stay flexible when they are frozen and because they frozen, it is are harder to undo the knot, and last a long time....(I always give while I am home, you never know)...but these have always been successful for chewing.I sometimes put a treat in the jean before tying it in a knot.....

Hope this helps, kimmee

rainbow
September 14th, 2006, 12:40 PM
Thanks Kimmee....what a unique idea. Chase isn't "teething" anymore but he definitely loves to chew. Are your dogs aggressive chewers?

Sweetgrass
September 14th, 2006, 02:07 PM
Your welcome...it was an idea given to me by a border collie trainer friend....

They are not aggressive chewers but they like to lick things and shake and my youngest never really got to be a pup before we got him so he spent time needing to shake things he was chewing....the jeans have been fantstic for him.

When Sage was a pup she ate everything, including our couch....the jeans were an awesome redirect that eventualy stopped her chewing other things....