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10 Secrets Pet Food Companies Don't Want You to Know

technodoll
May 31st, 2006, 09:24 PM
1. Pet food is NEVER mostly meat.

Many ads suggest that it is... In order to list a meat source first on the bag label pet food companies resort to a variety of gimmicks. Here are a few to get you thinking.

1st Listing, a "wet" ingredient in what ends up being an essentially dry finished product. Wet meat gets a lot lighter when the moisture is cooked out. This labeling loophole is blatantly deceptive to the general public. All ingredients should be weighed and listed in dry weight equivalents for you to know truly how much of each makes up the ration. If the label lists, "chicken" it means chicken weighed when wet. Drop 75% of the value. If, on the other hand, it says, "chicken meal" they play fairly. If it says, "meat (any type) by-product meal" or "meat (any type) by-products" it was never meat to begin with. Find another food.

Another gimmick is to "split carbohydrates" (grains) into multiple parts to get the "meat" to list first. Label ingredients are listed in descending order by weight. So, If you have 10 lbs. of chicken meal and 25 lbs. of rice, which should appear first on the label? Chicken of course! (if you want people to buy the stuff).
Here's how it's done...

1st- CHICKEN MEAL, 2nd- GROUND RICE, 3rd- RICE BRAN, 4th- RICE GLUTEN.

Pretty sneaky and obviously deceptive unless you know the trick.
Rice Flour, Brewer's Rice and Rice ala Ronny could also have been listed if they really wanted to be fancy. A related tactic is to use a variety of grains with different names to get meat listed first. This is slightly more valid since they have different amino acid profiles and are truly different ingredients. Grains cost a lot less than meat. Meat "by-products" cost a lot less than meat. Both also have considerably less food value. The last gimmick for now is the campaign to convince the public that meat by-products and meat are just about the same thing.
Hmm... "Honey, I'm having a ribeye steak tonight and you're having a nice pile of by-products, ok?" "Would you like the chicken breast or the intestine-cartilage-beak medley with your rice, Bob?" "Well gee Dear, doesn't really make any difference to me, they all sound equally delicious, nutritious and healthy!"

By definition, by-products may contain anything from the specified animal except, (in the case of chicken), feathers and feces and, (in the case of beef), hoof, hide and feces. Meat and fat are separated out first because they are costlier and are therefore not present in any appreciable quantity. What's left is the bones, tendons, cartilage, beaks, feet and innards. Proudly displayed and masqueraded as meat. A pet food bag is not a place for dumping stuff of unknown nutritional value. Some foods even use the term , "SELECT by-products". All these contortions serve one purpose; To make you think that you're getting more meat than you really are in your bag of pet food. After all, who'd pay $35 for a bushel of corn?! Well, keep reading!

2. The cooking process used in pet foods KILLS off a vital component: enzymes.

In order to eliminate bacteria and make cutesy shapes that pets care nothing about, processing temperatures in excess of 160 degress F are used to extrude or bake your pet's food.

So what? Well, glad you asked. This places the entire burden for digestion on your pet's pancreas to supply the enzymes necessary for breaking down nutrients for absorption. In nature, this is far from the case. Animals naturally follow the path of "least digestive resistance" in the wild. Consider the fox who catches a rabbit. First item on the menu is the contents of the gut. Let the rabbit do the digesting and enjoy! The rabbit spent hours nibbling grasses and grains readying them for the fox's easy absorption of carbohydrates. Quick and cheap fuel. Next the fox buries or hides the rest to stew a spell. What we call, "turning rancid" the fox calls, "just getting better". In a couple days, the live enzymes in the rabbit meat have broken it down into easily digested protein. Notice how no fire was used in this process? For dessert, a little bone gnawing for the marrow, the calcium, and the teeth cleaning, and it's naptime. Left for the lower animals in the hierarchy are most of the by-products and the hide.

Let's get back to your pet. In puppies and kittens, the pancreas is usually robust and up to the task of supplying sufficient digestive enzymes to make dead food somewhat useable and fulfill it's other vital functions. With age, however, pancreatic function is weakened and often can't keep up with this undue burden. If the pet food fed day in and day out is of low nutritional value to begin with, the taxing effect on the system will be all the greater and the pancreas will most likely give up that much sooner. The consequences to your pet's health are too broad in scope to cover here.

3. Giving "real food" aka "table scraps" is the RIGHT thing to do!

Stepping on a lot of toes here to smash the myth that you should only feed the stuff from the bag and nothing else ever, PERIOD. What is it they are afraid of anyway? That your pet will learn to beg? Unlearn that. That your pet won't eat the chaff they call "food" after tasting the real deal? Probably. Or that it will throw the delicate balance of their finely tuned "nutrition" out of whack somehow? He He Hoo, hardly.

Here's the scoop... Providing real food (not potato chips or other junk food) in its raw form counteracts some of the deficit that can be caused by only feeding commercially prepared pet food. It can provide the living enzymes to make digestion an easy rather than burdensome process. But, don't just go wild and throw everything in the feeding trough. Good bets for pets are raw carrots, broccoli, yogurt, cheese, garlic and meats. Cooked oatmeal, rice, corn, squash and the like are fine too. Don't feed raw grains, legumes, potatoes, onions, celery or chocolate which are either unusable or unhealthy. If you aren't comfortable with raw meat and fish, don't do it. Keep in mind, they aren't people and have an entirely different gastro-intestinal system than we do. Introduce new foods a little at a time about three times a week to start and give your pet's pancreas a much needed break.

4. Most "vet recommended" foods pay mightily for the "honor".

Does it matter that the majority of vets know very little about pet nutrition? The public is told to, "Ask your vet". The vet is told by the pet food companies, "we'll send you to Hawaii for a week of golf if you sell and endorse XYZ brand pet food". In school, vets-to-be could ELECT to take an overview course in animal nutrition. Or not. There have been changes of late to make this required study. AS IT WELL SHOULD BE!

You are miles ahead if you understand the pet food label yourself and take the time to learn some basic nutritional concepts. It's not that complicated! Find out for yourself, trust your own judgement and ignore what people say who are getting paid to say it.

5. The #1 vet recommended brand is probably the #1 worst pet food value.

Without mentioning any names, if it lists corn as the first ingredient on the label and gets blasted by the competition for it, you know the company. Read the label! Compare it to the cheapest stuff you can find. There isn't a dimes worth of difference in most cases.

How much does it cost them to make a 40 lb. bag of this stuff you may wonder? Right? Sit down.
How about less than $3 including the cost of the bag? How much does the duped public shell out for the bushel of corn and peanut shells most recommended by vets? About $35. "Have a nice flight to Maui, Dr. Cutter and thanks again for your support".

6. Feeding "Soft-Moist" diets will cut your pet's life expectancy in half.

Thankfully, these foods are on the steep decline but aren't gone yet. Perhaps killing your customers isn't a good way to develop long term brand loyalty. These toxic morsels are so loaded with chemicals to stay soft and prevent molding and so laden with sugar to cover the harsh chemical taste, they rip a pet's insides out. The sweetness is addictive and you'll hear owners say, "Fifi just won't eat anything else". Well, then better buy the small bag because who knows how long Fifi will be eating at all? Anybody feeding this garbage should stop at once and the manufacturers of it should be faced with a class action.

7. Many companies have "slithered" away from using ETHOXYQUIN.

The once popular, and staunchly defended as safe, preservative (antioxidant) called "Ethoxyquin" has been mostly abandoned because of "hushed" litigation and settlements with professional breeders. It formerly was championed by pet food manufacturers (and others) as an advanced and healthy inclusion in pet food in an attempt to hide the fact that it was never intended to be eaten, much less on a daily basis. It was originally formulated as a rubber stabilizer and a color retention agent. Tires stayed pliable and spices stayed red. Despite efforts to get it approved as a food stabilizing agent in people food, it is only allowed for extremely limited application with colored spices. The people who know the devastating truth about this ingredient when eaten daily by pets have been paid off and forced to never tell their stories. There are innumerable instances of stillbirth, sudden liver failure, kidney dysfunction, permanent pigment changes, tumors and death thought to be caused by the addition of this wonder substance to pet food starting in about 1987. Much of the talk about ethoxyquin has quieted since the major pet food companies jumped off the bandwagon and switched to safer (and less legally troublesome) preservatives like forms of vitamins C. If they want the trust of the public, they should own up to their mistakes and come clean. Fat chance. All you'll get is denial.

8. Nature didn't intend for pets to eat dry food devoid of enzymes.

Convenience is paid for in reduced pet health. Where is it written that your pet's bowl has to be filled with chalk dry nuggets of quasi-nutritious ground up brown stuff? We've been sold on a bad idea. We bought it because it made life easier. Until the real bill comes, that is. But doesn't kibbled food make their teeth shiny and their breath fresh? Won't their teeth fall out if they eat soft stuff? Yeah, right. Ever watch your dog eat? Does it look like some kind of teeth cleaning exercise? How about the cat? Really getting the old gum line clean huh? The truth about teeth cleaning is this... sticks, rocks, yarn, bones, toys and saliva primarily accomplish this task, not food. Commercial pet food has to be flavor enhanced with digest and sprayed-on fat to be even remotely attractive to your pet. Without these palatability modifications, the old dry kibble would just sit there and get dusty. People get paid big money to invent coatings to make your pet dive headfirst into the food bowl. Because then you smile and feel like it must be healthy and that Fifi loves the food and you too so you'll buy it again. Right? Remember, the fox didn't go in search of a crunchy rabbit. It ate the soft one and it has a dazzling smile and a fully charged pancreas.

9. Some companies sneak sugar into pet food to hook your pet.

Watch out for these guys! They call it other things of course... (cane molasses, corn syrup) but it absolutely does not belong in your pet's food bowl. Processed sugars are foreign to dogs and cats and over the long term can result in obesity, tooth decay and diabetes (along with other maladies). Until 2 years ago, propylene glycol was being used as a sweet tasting preservative by those who must have cared much more about shelf life than about pet health. Thankfully, it has finally been banned. Pet food companies will tell you that the industry is tightly regulated and that your pet's health is being fastidiously protected. Do you buy that one? The FDA can't even keep up with human food and didn't lift a finger on behalf of the pet owners during the ethoxyquin debate.

The regulating body for pet food ingredients is AAFCO. The American Association of Feed Control Officials. The rules and definitions they adopt are made by those with vested interests and are enforced through "voluntary compliance". The fox guards the rabbit hutch here.

10. Almost all manufacturers use stool hardening agents in pet food.

Convenience again triumphs over pet health. Stool modifiers make clean up easier and mask the effects of nutrient malabsorption. Who's going to buy a pet food if you've got to SCRAPE up after your dog? It's easier to just stack those little bricks into a pile or kick them elsewhere. Consider however the strain on your pet's innards. Would you put concrete mix in your pancake batter? How about sawdust? If you were dieting, would you mix ground peanut shells into your breakfast cereal? Well, they do all that and more for your beloved pet. See if any of these made it into your pet food bag: sodium bentonite, powdered cellulose, beet pulp, tomato (or any other) pomace, ground peanut shells? The explanation for including these usually is that they are fiber sources for your pet's well being. Maybe a little truth there but not the real reason they are added. Whole grains provide great fiber content. A bit of bran would do well too. The real goal is to make you buy the food again because clean up time is so easy and enjoyable with brand XYZ's designer stools. Before you do this to your pet, try it yourself for a few days. One question to ask a company representative is this, "Aren't there times when my pet needs to evacuate it's system rapidly such as when a toxin is ingested or when the kitty or doggy flu comes around? Is having a cork in there at all times really a good idea? You'll then likely hear mumbling about "Our research..." and "regulating intestinal transit time for optimal nutrient absorption". Do you buy that one? If the food is good and fed properly, stools will be fine without forcing your pet to work a brick through their digestive and excretory systems.

:eek:

Prin
June 1st, 2006, 02:43 AM
Yep... That's all I have to say about that.;)

Puppyluv
June 1st, 2006, 03:05 AM
11- Kibble is no cheaper/easier than feeding raw. :D

A+ on the list Technodoll!

liloaties
June 1st, 2006, 05:10 AM
I've heard about a lot of what you said from a friend of mine! She only feeds her dogs chicken that she has raised every month and killed just for them.. Haha. And a variety of other things like fish and what not.. But never any kibble.

I asked her what was the next best thing to that if I were to still feed my dog kibble. She recommended a few and we ended up buying California Natural. My dog really likes it.. And I have studied a bit on what was in it, but do you know much about that brand specifically?

I'm definitely not willing to buy what the vets tell me if it's bad for my dog.. I know that raising chickens for my dog may be a bit excessive, but if it's tons better for her, then I might look into it.

Thanks for all of the info!

rainbow
June 1st, 2006, 12:39 PM
California Natural is not bad but there are better foods out there like Timberwolf Organics, Solid Gold, Canidae.

California Natural has chicken meal, brown rice, white rice, sunflower oil, natural flavours, taurine, flaxseed, vitamins and minerals. So that's one meat source and two grains before the fat. Also, Prin did a good post on sunflower oil: www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=24324

Check out the other foods I mentioned:

www.timberwolforganics.com
www.solidgoldhealth.com
www.canidae.com

Also check out alot of the previous threads on this food forum. There's alot of good information here. Prin is the dry food guru and technodoll the raw food guru. :D

technodoll
June 1st, 2006, 01:21 PM
Prin is the dry food guru and technodoll the raw food guru

oh my gosh! i got "promoted", yayyy! :D :p :o (giggling yet flattered). glad you don't mind me sharing the stuff i'm still learning about as life trots along, sharing knowledge (giving & receiving) is such a thrill!

White Wolf
June 1st, 2006, 02:04 PM
Thread stuck.

Prin
June 1st, 2006, 02:10 PM
Check out the other foods I mentioned:

www.timberwolforganics.com
www.solidgoldhealth.com
www.canidae.com

And these:
http://www.merrickpetcare.com/
http://www.naturalbalanceinc.com/
http://www.oldmotherhubbard.com/
http://www.petcurean.com/
http://www.performatrinultra.com/
They've all been recommended by members here at some point.:)

liloaties
June 1st, 2006, 03:35 PM
California Natural has chicken meal, brown rice, white rice, sunflower oil, natural flavours, taurine, flaxseed, vitamins and minerals. So that's one meat source and two grains before the fat.

I guess I'm confused because the stuff that we have for Schatzi isn't the chicken meal. It's a lamb & rice formula. We also found some Sweet Potato and some sort of fish formula too. She doesn't seem to do very well with chicken.. Is this any better?

liloaties
June 1st, 2006, 03:55 PM
And these:
http://www.merrickpetcare.com/
http://www.naturalbalanceinc.com/
http://www.oldmotherhubbard.com/
http://www.petcurean.com/
http://www.performatrinultra.com/
They've all been recommended by members here at some point.:)

I checked out those websites and it looked like there were only a few of these brands available in my area (Michigan):

Natural Balance, Old Mother Hubbard, and Canidae (sp?). Would it be beneficial to my dog to switch from California Natural to one of these brands? She seems to be doing ok now with the lamb but now with all of this talk about dog foods, I'm not sure anymore! I want to be feeding her the best that I can without spending tons of money and works just as good. Adding another dog into the mix brings up concerns about food now. Do people commonly switch between different formulas to give a better variety, or stick to one?

Sorry for all of the questions..

Prin
June 1st, 2006, 04:02 PM
California Natural isn't a bad food... Wait.. I can't get the full ingredient list from their site. Do they put menadione in there?

liloaties
June 1st, 2006, 04:09 PM
I found on their website the ingredients..

Lamb Meal
Ground Brown Rice
Ground White Rice
Sunflower Oil
Taurine
Vitamins/Minerals
Beta Carotene

I don't have the bag anymore, though. We have a container we put it all in so I couldn't look at the bag.. =(

rainbow
June 1st, 2006, 07:08 PM
California Natural does not use menadione sodium bisulfite.

Liloaties - Welcome to the dog food rollercoaster....we've all been there at one time or other. :D

Any of the foods listed by Prin and myself are good. Not all dogs do well on the same food so pick one that your dog does well on. Give a food at least three months to see results. When you switch foods do so gradually. If your dog has been eating a crappy food and you're switching to a holistic one, she may experience lots of poop and maybe loose stools. Don't be alarmed as she's just detoxifying herself. :D

Prin
June 1st, 2006, 11:13 PM
Yeah, I saw that list, but they don't actually list all the vitamins and minerals... But if Rainbow says they don't use menadione, it's all good.

It looks good, but if your dog starts to get chubby, it's likely to be from the lamb (some dogs gain weight quickly on lamb).

rainbow
June 1st, 2006, 11:38 PM
I know California Natural doesn't use menadione in their chicken and rice formula so I presume they don't use it in their lamb and rice formula. :D

The only way of knowing for sure is to check the bag or give them a call (1-800-532-7261)

Mocha's mum
November 18th, 2006, 10:51 AM
YIKES!!! I've been reading this thread for a half hour, looking at the websites, and......YIKES!!! How do you decipher the nutrient panel on the dog food? How do you know what is good for your dog?? I have a hard enough time trying to figure out what's good for me to eat, and reading labels on the food that I buy. :confused:

Prin
November 18th, 2006, 12:55 PM
Well, I think the feel of this forum is that the more natural it is (i.e. the more ingredients you recognize) the better.:shrug: (that's a very vague general description...;))

But as always, if you need help, just post a question and we'll all do our best.:)

greaterdane
November 18th, 2006, 01:35 PM
Are we allowed to crosspost this on another site?

Angies Man
November 18th, 2006, 02:05 PM
Yeah, I saw that list, but they don't actually list all the vitamins and minerals... But if Rainbow says they don't use menadione, it's all good.

It looks good, but if your dog starts to get chubby, it's likely to be from the lamb (some dogs gain weight quickly on lamb).

From their website:


Included in our foods are some of the following: Ascorbic Acid, Beta Carotene, Biotin, Calcium Carbonate, Calcium Iodate, Choline Chloride, Cobalt Carbonate, Cobalt Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Dicalcium Pantothenate, dl-Methionine, Folic Acid, Iron Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Niacin, Potassium Chloride, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Vitamin C Supplement (Sodium Ascorbate), Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement (Alpha Tocopherol), Zinc Proteinate

I'm a little skeezy about them saying that their products include "'some' of the following:" I wonder what that means?

technodoll
November 18th, 2006, 04:53 PM
Are we allowed to crosspost this on another site?

of course! the more people know about it, the better! :highfive:

Daisy2943
December 17th, 2006, 12:26 AM
What is some affordable dog food? Every where i turn some one is saying something different about dog food. My grandma feeds her dogs science diet, which has been recommended by her vet and the Ohio State Unjiversity veteniary clinic. My grandma does research on this stuff all the time. Others suggest Iams which i read the ingredients and compared it to what was shown in this thread and none of them are on it. Which is better Natural Choice, Iams, Science diet, or Eukanuba. My vet said eukanuba puppy food is bad for puppies. It has to much fat in it to fatten the puppy up that some dogs can't handle it and have nonstop dirahhea. I know my cocker spaniel had this problem.

Prin
December 17th, 2006, 12:33 AM
None of the above. :shrug: Unfortunately "good food" and "cheap" don't go together.

Prin
December 17th, 2006, 12:36 AM
Ok, I thought about it and I think the cheapest good food is Canidae... Kirkland lamb and rice is ok (from Costco), but it's not holistic or anything, and definitely not up there with the great foods, but it's cheap.

erykah1310
December 17th, 2006, 12:48 AM
What bout wellness??? It doesnt seem so bad, and a reasonable price too:shrug:

Prin
December 17th, 2006, 12:49 AM
Yeah, it's ok too.:) There are a lot of foods in the $60-$70 range that are awesome.:)

erykah1310
December 17th, 2006, 12:51 AM
Boooh ya! :D :crazy: I am finally semi sorta knowledgable enough to input my thoughts on dog food!:thumbs up lol:D

tjrm63
March 10th, 2007, 08:38 PM
To all you dog food gurus out there, have you ever heard of DR. HARVEYS
all natural human quality ingredients, you add boiling water to it and add your own protein source. I was wondering if anyone has tried it or what they thought of the quality

Jellybean
April 27th, 2007, 06:07 PM
What bout wellness??? It doesnt seem so bad, and a reasonable price too:shrug:

Wellness is the dog food I recently changed to for my Boston Terrier. I like the ingredients. She prefers the dry kibbles, and I soften it a bit with water and then add either some boiled hamburger or chicken (whichever we are having!). I've seen such a difference in her activity level, and she runs to the bowl in anticipation of her meal, which, of course, I love to see! She had been eating Science Diet but really didn't like it; and it caused her to have very loose stools.

I'm thinking about getting a Siamese cat, and the breeder and I talked about dog and cat foods. She also feeds her cats Wellness - but only the dry because she feels the canned is not as good (perhaps "grainy", as Prin mentioned in another post). I'm going to give her the canned Wellness I bought so that she can give it to her chickens! (she says they love it! ) :)

heidiho
April 27th, 2007, 07:21 PM
# 6 Are they talking about canned wet food(fancy feast) or what not?/And yipee i thought oatmeal would be ok for them,so dry food and oatmeal from now on for roxy..

mydogs
May 6th, 2007, 05:18 PM
I have 5 bags of food that i just bought,don't know what to do.:finger i'm feeding my miki and maltese Natural balance dog food rolls does ANY BODY know if there any good:sad: I just bought solid gold,Origen,Exclusive,Wenaewa but they turned there braty little noses up I have to feed them tonight i'm afraid of Natural Balance now because they recalled a few of there foods HELP:fingerscr

Prin
May 6th, 2007, 09:42 PM
Do they have any allergies or is there anything particular you want or don't want in their food?

LynLyn
May 9th, 2007, 12:02 AM
wow this post has taught me alot, i'm impressed. I think i'll print it out and give copies to my friends.

NoahGrey
July 8th, 2007, 10:45 AM
I feed my cat Hills T/D Prescrieption diet. One of the better brands. For a 4IB (1.81kg) bag it's between $19-24 dollars a bag. You can only get it through a Vet hospital.

ACO22

sugarcatmom
July 8th, 2007, 11:33 AM
I feed my cat Hills T/D Prescrieption diet. One of the better brands. For a 4IB (1.81kg) bag it's between $19-24 dollars a bag. You can only get it through a Vet hospital.

ACO22



Chicken By-Product Meal, Brewers Rice, Corn Gluten Meal, Ground Whole Grain Corn, Powdered Cellulose 10% (source of fiber), Pork Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), Chicken Liver Flavor, . . .preserved with BHT and BHA. . .,

Not only is there very little real meat, but it's preserved with BHA/BHT, which most pet food companies have stopped using because of a possible carcinogenic link. The carbohydrate content of this food is way too high for an obligate carnivore to be eating and while you might end up with a cat that has lovely pearly whites, it will probably also end up with diabetes, kidney issues, inflammatory bowel disease, obesity, etc, all because of these highly inappropriate ingredients.

Please read this link for a rather enlightening look at the cat food industry: What's Eating Kitty? (http://www.nowtoronto.com/issues/2007-05-31/news_story5.php)

erykah1310
July 8th, 2007, 09:44 PM
Just because you can only get it at a vet clinic does not actually mean it's a quality food, it only means that you're overpaying for a lousy food.



And thats that in a nut shell. So many people are mislead by vet prescribed foods its sickening. So many people are mislead by marketing ploys on tv as well, honestly I feel the same as sugarcatmom on this one, this is a really inferrior food, so many pet store brands can be better for what ever is ailing your kitty.

NoahGrey
July 9th, 2007, 04:08 PM
Sorry to burst everyon'es bubble...but Hills is a great brand for your pet. Since in my line of profession I work with a ton of vets and so on.

ACO22

jesse's mommy
July 9th, 2007, 04:19 PM
Sorry to burst everyon'es bubble...but Hills is a great brand for your pet. Since in my line of profession I work with a ton of vets and so on.

ACO22

Unfortunately it really isn't a good food. There are a ton of fillers and bad stuff in there that is just not healthy for your pet. Just because it's sold at a vets office, doesn't mean it's good. Most of the times vets push this stuff because they receive a percentage of the proceeds and kickbacks. Also, most vets aren't nutritionists. Here is a good resource that has been posted in tons of posts:

http://www.dogfoodproject.com/

sugarcatmom
July 9th, 2007, 04:39 PM
Sorry to burst everyon'es bubble...but Hills is a great brand for your pet. Since in my line of profession I work with a ton of vets and so on.

ACO22

Ahhh, but therein lies the issue. The education most vets receive on the topic of animal nutrition is extremely limited, and is most often provided by the very pet food companies that end up stocking the shelves of their clinics. Not to mention that around 20% of an average clinic's annual income comes from the sale of such food. Since you apparently didn't read the link above, here's a snippet for you:

Who's sponsoring any of the studies on animal nutrition? "A lot of the research is funded by the industry. We have to be very grateful, really, to the industry, because there is no federal funding for dietary studies in pets. Unless [that funding comes with] strings attached." When pressed to confide which companies are applying such pressure, Hoenig stays mum.

It's a point that gets raised at the Cecil Street meet by host MPP Rosario Marchese. He tells NOW, "University of Guelph is the main veterinary college in Ontario, and it has no nutritionist teaching in the [core curriculum]. Companies like Hill's and Royal Canin/Medi-Cal provide the only nutritional information that veterinary students receive, including free products. That is a problem."

Indeed, Marchese is tabling a private member's bill this week that will require Ontario post-secondary schools to report annually on all private donations they receive and come clean on any agreements signed between them and the private sector to smoke out just such connections.

Marion Smart, clinical studies and nutrition prof at Saskatoon's Western College of Veterinary Medicine, has surveyed every accredited veterinary college on the continent and found a similar pattern almost everywhere. "The pet food industry has seen this void and filled it by sponsoring and supporting nutrition programs in colleges. If the educators aren't willing to take hold of it, in a way the pet food industry is doing a service and a disservice to veterinarians."

I mean really, just take a look at the T/D ingredients that I posted above. How can that possibly be good for an animal that was designed to eat MEAT? There's wood pulp in it, for crying out loud! You may work with a bunch of vets, but I've actually done extensive research on feline nutrition for the past 4.5 years, ever since my own cat became diabetic ! If you are at all interested in learning more for yourself, and for the betterment of your cat, might I suggest this website: http://www.catinfo.org/ actually written by a vet, if that makes it more credible for you.

kit1469
December 10th, 2007, 10:03 PM
thats horrible i had no idea that so much stuff was in my kitties food .. are there any brands that are better than others??

jrock07
December 12th, 2007, 12:50 PM
California Natural is not bad but there are better foods out there like Timberwolf Organics, Solid Gold, Canidae.

California Natural has chicken meal, brown rice, white rice, sunflower oil, natural flavours, taurine, flaxseed, vitamins and minerals. So that's one meat source and two grains before the fat. Also, Prin did a good post on sunflower oil: www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=24324

Check out the other foods I mentioned:

www.timberwolforganics.com
www.solidgoldhealth.com
www.canidae.com

Also check out alot of the previous threads on this food forum. There's alot of good information here. Prin is the dry food guru and technodoll the raw food guru. :D
I know California Natural doesn't use menadione in their chicken and rice formula so I presume they don't use it in their lamb and rice formula. :D

The only way of knowing for sure is to check the bag or give them a call (1-800-532-7261)


Rainbow- I happen to Agree with you - and I think most of the food out there is crap! My Pitt- had really bad allergies (food) wasnt sure if it was food at first but it was through a long process of elimination.
I had him on Purina chicken and oatmeal, Proplan ( I Think thats the name of it) Corn is very hard for the dogs to digest - its no good- Wheat, Soy, all stink for dogs and cause allergic reactions- grain

I SWITCHED MY PITT TO CANIDAE AND IT IS ONE (1) OF THE BEST FOODS ON THE MARKET AND HE HAS NOT SCRATCHED AT ALL HERE ARE THE INGREDIENTS :

CHICKEN MEAL, TURKEY MEAL, BROWN RICE,WHITE RICE,LAMB MEAL, CHIKEN FAT(PRESERVED WITH MIXED TOCOPHEROLS,)HERRING MEAL, FLAX SEED, SUN CURED ALFALFA MEAL, SUNFLOWER OIL, CHICKEN, LECITHIN, MONOCALCIUM PHOSPHATE, POTASSIUM CHLORIDE, CHOLINE CHLORIDE, LINOLEIC ACID, ROSMARY EXTRACT, SAGE EXTRACT, DRIED ENTEROCOCCUS FAECIUM, DRIED LACTOBACILLUS ACIDOPHILUS FERMENTATION PRODUCT, DRIED ASPERGILLUS ORYZAE FERMAENTATION EXTRACT, DRIED BACILLUS SUBTILIS FERMENTATION EXTRACT, INULIN (FROM CHICORY ROOT,) SACCHAROMYCES CEREVISIAE FERMENTATION SOLUBLES, UCCA SCHIDIGERA EXTRACT, MIXED TOCOPHEROLS (SOURCE OF VITAMIN E), ZINC AMINO ACID CHELATE, MANGANESE AMINO ACID CHELATE, IRON AMINO ACID CHELATE, COPPER AMINO ACID CHELATE, COBALT AMINO ACID CHELATE, VITAMIN A SUPPLEMENT, VITAMIN D3 SUPPLEMENT, ASCORBIC ACID (SOURCE OF VITAMIN C) NIACIN, THIAMINE MONONITRATE (VITAMIN B1) RIBOFLAVIN (SOURCE OF B2) BETA CAROTENE, CALCIUM PANTOTHENATE, PYIDOXINE HYDROCHLORIDE (VITAMIN B6) CALCIUM IODATE, FOLIC ACID, D BIOTIN, SODIUM SELENITE, PAPAYA, VITAMIN B12 SUPPLEMENT.

GUARANTEED ANALYSIS
CRUDE PROTEIN (MIN) 24.00%
CRUDE FAT(MIN) 14.50%
CRUDE FIBER (MAX) 4.00%
MOISTURE (MIN) 10.00%
LINOLEIC ACID (OMEGA 6) (MIN) 3.70%
VITAMIN E (MIN) 200.00 IU/KG
CALCIUM (MIN) 1.20%
PHOSPHORUS (MIN) 0.90%
ALPHA LINOLEIC ACID (OMEGA 3) (MIN) 0.60%
ASCORBIC ACID (MIN) 50.00 MG/KG
CELLULASE (A) (MIN) 100 CMCU/KG
MAGNESIUM (MIN) 0.14%
PH 6.5%

(A) ONE CABOXYMETHYL CELLULOSE UNIT (CMCU) IS THAT AMOUNT OF ENZYME WHICH LIBERATES ONE MICROMOLE OF REDUCING SUGAR( EXPRESSED AS GLUCOSE EQUIVALENTS) IN ONE MINUTE UNDER THE CONDITIONS OF THE ASSAY.

PROS:
THREE MEAT PRODUCTS IN FIRST FIVE INGREDIENTS, LOW LEVEL OF GRAIN, USES GOOD QUALITY INGREDIENTS THROUGHOUT.

CONS: NONE

THE FIRST,SECOND, FIFTH, AND SEVENTH INGREDIENTS INT HE FOOD ARE ALL NAMED MEAT PRODUCTS, AND ALL IN MEAL FORM. THERE IS A FURTHER (FRESH) MEAT INGREDIENT 11TH ON THE INGREDIENT LIST, THOUGH THIS IS TOO FAR DOWN TO MAKE UP A SUBSTANTIVE PORTION OF THE FOOD

THE MAIN GRAIN IN THE FOOD IS RICE (TWO FORMS) THESE ARE WHOLE GRAINS THAT ARE LOW-ALLERGENIC AND A GOOD QUALITY SOURCE OF CARBOHYDRATES AND ADDITIONAL PROTEIN. THERE ARE NO FURTHER GRAINS IN THE FOOD FLAXSEED IS A GOOD QUALITY SOURCE OF OMEGA 6 AND OMEGA 3 ESSENTIAL FATTY ACIDS AS IS SUNFLOWER OIL, THERE IS A GOOD RANGE OF PROBIOTICS IN THE FOOD .

THIS IS AN EXCELLENT LOOKING FOOD WITH VERY GOOD MEAT CONTENT. THE ONLY GRAIN CONTAINED IN THE FOOD IS RICE AND THERE ARE NO GRAIN FRAGMENTS OR OTHER FILLERS.

YOU CAN GO TO WWW.DOGFOODANALYSIS.COM AND LOOK UP THE DOG FOOD YOU ARE GIVING YOUR PUP!

HOPE THIS ALL HELPS!
I STAND BY CANIDAE DOG FOOD ALL LIFE STAGES 100%

BEST REGARDS,
JADE & MURDOCH :lightbulb::lightbulb::2cents:

jrock07
December 12th, 2007, 12:56 PM
Sorry to burst everyon'es bubble...but Hills is a great brand for your pet. Since in my line of profession I work with a ton of vets and so on.

ACO22


What do you do ACO022?:confused:

SARAH
December 12th, 2007, 01:18 PM
YIKES!!! I've been reading this thread for a half hour, looking at the websites, and......YIKES!!! How do you decipher the nutrient panel on the dog food? How do you know what is good for your dog?? I have a hard enough time trying to figure out what's good for me to eat, and reading labels on the food that I buy. :confused:

I haven't found it here, but in France I used to pick up "animal meat" in the butcher's section at the supermarket. It was all the cut-offs from other people-meats, not too much fat at all even! Cooking that with the "brisures de riz" (broken rice) and some vegetable I had handy, and presto ... home cooked meals for the dogs. Why don't they have that here? I mean, I've LOOKED for it, repeatedly, in the different supermarket chains ... no broken rice, no animal-meat. Why is that?

Misti finally got used to Fancy Feast, after getting a can with pate rather than the pieces. But then the can with pieces went down fast the next day :) she discovered that dry food isn't everything in life! In addition to raw meat and egg yolks of course :D

LavenderRott
December 12th, 2007, 04:22 PM
Sorry to burst everyon'es bubble...but Hills is a great brand for your pet. Since in my line of profession I work with a ton of vets and so on.

ACO22


So, the vets told you it was great food? And who told them? The salesman who came to their office, told them all the great things about the food and offered to give them a cut of the profit?

Wouldn't it be interesting to know the amount of time the vet spent learning about nutrition? I hear that they are required to take a semester long class. Heck, most of us here have spent more time than that reading everything we can get our hands on to make sure that our pets get the best food available.

Here are the ingredients of their original formula adult dry food:

Ingredients

Chicken, Ground Whole Grain Corn, Ground Whole Grain Sorghum, Ground Whole Grain Wheat, Chicken By-Product Meal, Soybean Meal, Animal Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), Corn Gluten Meal, Brewers Rice, Chicken Liver Flavor, Soybean Oil, Dried Egg Product, Flaxseed, Potassium Chloride, Iodized Salt, Calcium Carbonate, Choline Chloride, Vitamin E Supplement, vitamins (L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin A Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin, Folic Acid, Vitamin D3 Supplement), minerals (Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite), DL-Methionine, preserved with Mixed Tocopherols and Citric Acid, Beta-Carotene, Rosemary Extract.

Winston
December 12th, 2007, 04:59 PM
I have tried to discuss food with my vet and she has no really good knowledge other than she promotes the Hills...Thats because they tell her what to sell?? When I came asking questions she could not answer..she would make up stupid things..one day and the next was different..

I put my dog on Orijen and took him off Hills...she reviewed the food and thought it was fantastic even asked me if she could keep the papers I gave her on the food! BUT I had to make sure he had his liver tested to be sure he could process the higher protein food...did the test...came back perfect...I keep on with the food which has been great by the way! Few months later I see her about something and mention the food again and she freaks out saying it was not good food that Hills was much better quality blah! blah! blah! My point is they dont know,,,they may have some idea of what has worked for some animals over the years but their knowledge of food and ingrediants is usually not always! up to date.


If you take the time to compare ingrediant lists of a few brands of food you will see there is a big difference...Look at where the meat is in the list of Hills and then go look at another bag of good quality kibble there is a difference!
Just my 2:2cents:

Cindy

Love4himies
December 13th, 2007, 09:11 AM
Next the fox buries or hides the rest to stew a spell. What we call, "turning rancid" the fox calls, "just getting better". In a couple days, the live enzymes in the rabbit meat have broken it down into easily digested protein. Notice how no fire was used in this process? .

:eek:

W4R, didn't you mention in a post that one of your cats bury their meat and go back to it the next day? Do all your cats do this and do they do it regularily?

white wrabbit
December 13th, 2007, 12:12 PM
ok i played around with different dog food sites yesterday.. so where does Accana fit on the list? (seamed ok to me) tee hee and i also compared the Hills to Ol Roys what do ya know they both have CORN as the first ingredient...
now about 9 to 10 years ago i did have a vet tell me to feed my dog proplan and did not recommend any of the stuff they stocked at there office.. so i am guess that must of been a good vet... (to bad they are in Peterborough, ONT)

"Wilbur Lover"
January 4th, 2008, 03:43 PM
Hi I'm Wilbur. I think my mom wants to put me on the Petco Science Diet. Another kind she is thinking of is Nutro Lamb & Rice. Are these good for me?

Thanks!



http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b57/Holyrowly/PC130005.jpg

GSDog
February 1st, 2008, 05:32 PM
Funny how even dog or cat food has become a fashion state...if you go back some years there wasnt all this food on the market and the dogs/cats were healthier...i use to have about 25yrs ago 2 dobermans and i use to feed them dry dog food from the Co-op...and my dogs were as strong as horses and very healthy...they werent fat or anything either..i even gave them raw bones with the bone marrow in it...(not the joints sections no good) and they had beautiful shinny fur and strong teeth...today you have a lot of junk on the market...my mom use to have a newfoundlander and it was huge...ate dry dog food and leftover pasta...the fur on this dog, women would kill to silky and natural shine like her dog :laughing: ...so you know, its up the the owner to be smart and wise...you want to spoil your dog by all means its your right but your dog or cat will be just as happy without all the fancy stuff out there...all they want is a good master that give thems hugs once a while :thumbs up

pitgrrl
February 1st, 2008, 09:11 PM
...you want to spoil your dog by all means its your right but your dog or cat will be just as happy without all the fancy stuff out there...all they want is a good master that give thems hugs once a while :thumbs up

Ya know, I don't really think of providing my dogs with good food as spoiling. Their box of squeek toys and sweaters maybe, but not good food :shrug:

twodogos
May 21st, 2008, 04:00 PM
you want to spoil your dog by all means its your right but your dog or cat will be just as happy without all the fancy stuff out there..

Ok so how about you eat McDonalds everyday for the rest of your life and see how you feel. Thats the equivilant to most of the dog foods that you can buy that are "cheaper".

The extra money i spend on feeding my pups Orijen is well spent. My dogs will cost less going to the vet and will be with me a lot longer because their health is that much better.

Dingo
May 23rd, 2008, 03:50 PM
I've just started feeding N-R-G Raw O-N-E. The ingredient list is amazing:

Free range buffalo, naked oats, wheat germ, cooked whole eggs (including egg shells as a calcium source), cooked buffalo liver, raw whole fresh carrots, grapefruit, winter squash, brocolli, cranberries, papaya, parsley and garlic, apple cider, goat milk yogurt, ground flax seed, cider vinegar, kelp, cold pressed safflower oil, olive oil.

It's dehydrated and you add water to reconstitute it It even smells good and looks good -- you can actually see identifiable bits of food in it, like bits of grated carrot. On the downside, it's very expensive. Nearly $30 for a 2kg box.

katiebear
February 7th, 2009, 12:28 PM
This is a great thread! One of the biggest things I've discovered as a pet owner is how uneducated we can be and how easy it is to believe marketing ploys of the big companies. I'll be sharing this info with all my friends!
I did want to comment - I know someone mentioned they were looking for an inexpensive "good" dog food. Always keep in mind that you get what you pay for - if the food is cheap, it's because it's using cheap ingredients (otherwise, the company wouldn't be able to stay in business). Now, an expensive food doesn't equate to quality (look at the vet brands) however, but a quality food WILL cost more than a substandard one. As pet owners though, we can't just look at the price of a bag of dog food - we have to look at the health of our pet. A healthy pet will cost much less over our pets' lifetime than a sickly one. If we can be proactive in feeding a good diet to our dogs, then in theory they should be healthy which will result in much less vet bills. Certainly diet isn't the only element in the equation, but it is one of the most easily controlled factors. Let's create a society that no longer buys into the deceptive marketing of the big pet food companies. Here's to feeding our pets right and to eliminating the market for cheap (and deadly) dog food!

Backwoodsgal
August 28th, 2011, 04:13 PM
3. Giving "real food" aka "table scraps" is the RIGHT thing to do!

Stepping on a lot of toes here to smash the myth that you should only feed the stuff from the bag and nothing else ever, PERIOD. What is it they are afraid of anyway? That your pet will learn to beg? Unlearn that. That your pet won't eat the chaff they call "food" after tasting the real deal? Probably. Or that it will throw the delicate balance of their finely tuned "nutrition" out of whack somehow? He He Hoo, hardly.

Here's the scoop... Providing real food (not potato chips or other junk food) in its raw form counteracts some of the deficit that can be caused by only feeding commercially prepared pet food. It can provide the living enzymes to make digestion an easy rather than burdensome process. But, don't just go wild and throw everything in the feeding trough. Good bets for pets are raw carrots, broccoli, yogurt, cheese, garlic and meats. Cooked oatmeal, rice, corn, squash and the like are fine too. Don't feed raw grains, legumes, potatoes, onions, celery or chocolate which are either unusable or unhealthy. If you aren't comfortable with raw meat and fish, don't do it. Keep in mind, they aren't people and have an entirely different gastro-intestinal system than we do. Introduce new foods a little at a time about three times a week to start and give your pet's pancreas a much needed break.

I just wanted to say that I still can't believe this is only starting to catch on now. I've always fed my dogs and cats table scraps and raw meats. I do feed them some dog/cat food, but that's only so we can feed all of them. It's quite a small amount per dog and cat compared to the scraps they receive.

Canadianbella
January 27th, 2012, 01:44 PM
I hope you don't mind me borrowing this for my facebook! I'm tired of people telling me "Dogs should NEVER get human food"
Because kibble falls out of the sky in the wild.. :yell:

067734m
April 27th, 2012, 09:15 AM
Hi I have a (estimated) 6 year old beagle/walkerhound. I feed her Purina Pro Plan Adult Shredded Blend.
Here are the ingredients: "Chicken, brewers rice, whole grain wheat, poultry by-product meal (natural source of glucosamine), corn gluten meal, animal fat preserved with mixed-tocopherols (form of Vitamin E), whole grain corn, soy flakes, soybean meal, fish meal (natural source of glucosamine), animal digest, glycerin, dried egg product, wheat bran, salt, calcium carbonate, calcium phosphate, potassium chloride, zinc proteinate, Vitamin E supplement, choline chloride, manganese proteinate, ferrous sulfate, sulfur, L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (source of Vitamin C), niacin, copper proteinate, Vitamin A supplement, calcium pantothenate, thiamine mononitrate, riboflavin supplement, Vitamin B-12 supplement, pyridoxine hydrochloride, garlic oil, folic acid, Vitamin D-3 supplement, calcium iodate, biotin, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of Vitamin K activity), sodium selenite."

I notice the "by-products" (and some mysterious chemicals) so I know it may not be best. But this food came highly recommended from the shelter. How would my dog be better off if I switched to one of the foods mentioned? Thoughts?

I'm also getting a (estimated) 3 year old lab. Even though they're a few years apart, is it ok to feed them the same food? If I did switch, any Brand Name suggestions for me?