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What are we teaching our children???

Puppyluv
May 30th, 2006, 05:28 PM
So, I work at a certain popular, multinational coffee company. Part of this job involves connecting with our customers, which is something I really enjoy doing. One of my favorite customers is a man in I would guess his mid forties, who has a mental capactiy which is slightly lower than average. He is the nicest guy ever and really funny, he makes great jokes and he brightens everyones day. He comes every day, and sits in the cafe with his coffee and maybe a pastry and spends at least an hour or two there. Every day, around 3, we get the afterschool rush of teenagers coming in for their frapu--uhhh i mean, blended coffee beverges;). Today this man's arrival coincided with this rush. After he got his coffee, he passed a girl who was ordering her drink at the til, and talking on her cell phone (PLEASE, if you go to a coffee shop and order a coffee, DO NOT do so while talking on your cell, it is really condescending to us. You may not see it this way, but it's plain old rude!) Anyways... the man saw her phone (a shiny pink razer) and he said "nice phone!" with a pleasent smile on his face. SHe gave him this glare and said "f off you f-ing psycho retard" (this is EXACTLY what she said (except she used the full words) and huddled away as if he was going to touch and infect her. This hurt the man more than I can describe. He looked so crushed. He was so close to tears. I felt so horrible for him, and furious at this girl.
What are we teaching the youth of today? This is so unbelievably unacceptable, I don't know what to say.


Ok, that was my story/rant for the day :mad:

dtbmnec
May 30th, 2006, 05:42 PM
Ugh what a....well I won't say it...

I mean I know teens are supposed to be rebellious etc. but that?! My grandmother would have had a heart attack hearing that! My mother would have taken a strip off the teen's hide though....

I'd have probably told him thanks and stuff instead of that...might be a little wierded out, but that's more cuz I have some issues with men (Freud would have a field day....and I took TV muuuuuch too seriously as a child) I sure as hell wouldn't have shrunk away from the guy....he'd have had to do more than that for that particular reaction (think the guy off Family Guy (Giggidy dude) but creepier and less funny)!

I do try to be polite with the cell phone I've got....I tend to try just asking the person I'm talking to hold on for a minute while I deal with the person in front of me....either that or I do the smart thing called "getting out of line" duh....oh wait that's common sense....something most of the world seems to lack.

Heh you should talk to my mom....she works at the Public Library and you'd think most people would be ok there.....erm NO! She had a lady come inside wearing nothing but a binkini top and shorts carrying her 2 year old child who had only a t-shirt on and was busy climbing over the security gates. She asked politely that the lady puts on a shirt and to put shorts or something on the child and to get the child to stay off the security gates and the lady snapped back at her and pretty much told her off! Mother was not impressed....and when she gets mad, she becomes the most polite person you could ever meet....and she knows how to get in a few digs without incriminating herself (I wish in some respects I could be like that)

Megan

P.S. Sorry if that was in any way threadjacking....

Frenchy
May 30th, 2006, 05:59 PM
First of all,teenagers shouldn't own cell phones.What's next?A car,condo....instead of buying everything for their kids,some parents should teach them respect.I am very surprise everytime a meet nice teenagers (they are not all alike!) My 10 yr old niece is very spoiled and she has started to tell my sister to f... off!Good thing I'm not there when it happens.My sister doesn't believe in spanking but I do ! :evil:

Puppyluv
May 30th, 2006, 06:03 PM
First of all,teenagers shouldn't own cell phones.What's next?A car,condo....instead of buying everything for their kids,some parents should teach them respect.I am very surprise everytime a meet nice teenagers (they are not all alike!) My 10 yr old niece is very spoiled and she has started to tell my sister to f... off!Good thing I'm not there when it happens.My sister doesn't believe in spanking but I do ! :evil:
Umm, well I owned a cell, a car and a condo as a teenager.... but I don't consider myself spoiled. Yes, I am well cared-for by my parents, but I appreciate what I have. I would never do what this girl did, and I don't think associting having possessions with poor behaviour is necessarily accurate.

Bushfire2000
May 30th, 2006, 06:22 PM
Teenagers have too much power now.
They've been told since they were in kindergarten that they are special and that people can't touch them.
Parents are not in charge of their children the way they used to be.
In an effort to protect our children from harm we(society) have created rude, selfcentered and unfeeling people.
They belive that because the kindergarten teacher told them that they are in charge of their own bodies (in stranger danger class)that they don't have to do anything an adult tells them to. That nebulous fear that someone might punish you if your bad, has given way to a smug "if you touch me you'll go to jail or get fired" mentality. We've taought them to look after themselves and not to care about others.

They write stories in the paper about children who are relating with their peers. Children who are friends with autistic children or with otherwise outside the norm children. While it's wonderful to hear those stories they are news because they are rare and not the ordinary thing they should be.

I'll get off my soap box now and let someone else have a turn.




I

joeysmama
May 30th, 2006, 06:23 PM
I feel so badly for that poor man.:sad:

And that girl sounds as though she is truly SPOILED ROTTEN. I'm certain she did not feel in any way threatened, just way superior !! Someone's mom did a terrible job !! :mad:

I'm sure you were too surprised to say anything to her. I would have been taken totally off guard and then later thought of a hundred great comebacks for Miss Smart Mouth. And of course if you use any of them her parents will be in there threatening your job and complaining that you are violating her civil liberties !!!

I know of a family who raised a commotion because the high school disciplined their son for calling a teacher a VERY vulgar name. He didn't like being corrected in class and stalked out of the room after calling the teacher something crude. He wasn't even suspended, just restricted from attending the dance that weekend and his parents went nuts. They said he was just expressing himself and that the word was really just like saying "jerk." I was a teacher and I wouldn't tolerate a kid calling me a jerk, let alone what this kid said.

Ok, someone lend me a hand. I don't know if I can come down off this soapbox! :rolleyes:

Bushfire2000
May 30th, 2006, 06:26 PM
Hey too funny Joeysmama. It was crowded up there.

phoenix
May 30th, 2006, 06:52 PM
They belive that because the kindergarten teacher told them that they are in charge of their own bodies (in stranger danger class)that they don't have to do anything an adult tells them to. That nebulous fear that someone might punish you if your bad, has given way to a smug "if you touch me you'll go to jail or get fired" mentality. I

Please don't blame teachers.

Parents are the ones who are threatening to sue teachers over attempts to discipline, and then on the other hand wondering why the schools don't have control of their kids. Teachers are the ones who are worried about getting fired everytime THEY touch a child, to break up a fight, or bandage a cut...or even accidentally bump in the hall...In the school I last taught at, kids were not allowed to have cell phones, but try confiscating one... they text in class, and by setting them to vibrate, they collude to leave class and all kinds of things. Yet a parent will fight for the return of that phone every time...

I am not at all surprised by your story. Teenagers are often nice people on their own and will probably become more so as they mature (let's hope), but in groups and on their phones, they turn into showboats that will say anything and everything for a reaction. There would be no point to confronting this girl in her group, IMO. Although a quiet word to her when she is alone might get through...with witnesses you might as well be prepared for her to swear up one side of you and down the other just as she sees the "smart" teens do to all the "dumb" adults on TV...

As a high school teacher, I just had to jump in... the schools are NOT sending out these messages... we are the recipients of this just as much as people in the service industry are (and we have to live with large groups of them for 6 h a day!!)

Sorry that man had to deal with that.

Frenchy
May 30th, 2006, 07:24 PM
I saw an interview with a teacher who was talking about how some kids weren't as polite as they should;one of her student called her a b**** one day.So in the evening the teacher called the mom to tell her what happened.The mom replied; "do I call YOU everytime he calls ME a b****?And she hung up!One of my friend is a teacher and believe me,they don't have it easy!Puppyluv,I'm glad you had all those things when you were a teenager,I was just talking about spoiled brats,some parents buy them everything (to get them of their backs) and forget to talk and educate them.

lezzpezz
May 30th, 2006, 07:38 PM
"SHe gave him this glare and said "f off you f-ing psycho retard" (this is EXACTLY what she said (except she used the full words) and huddled away as if he was going to touch and infect her. This hurt the man more than I can describe. He looked so crushed. He was so close to tears. I felt so horrible for him, and furious at this girl."

Here's my 2 cents worth, a bit wordy, but hopefully helpful:

I figure that any establishment has rules of conduct: no swearing, spitting, rudeness, etc.....

If this "young lady" comes in again, (are they a regular pack of teens?), perhaps you can have your boss, (you??), take her aside and sternly, yet politely, tell her that this behaviour is NOT tolerated in or near the premises and if she cannot be civil and polite to, not only the customers, but staff as well, she is no longer welcome for her frappa-whatzit. Do not back down and do not take any lip. An unwanted mouthpiece can be charged with tresspassing. Mention that......

Seems to me that the gentleman spends much more time and money in your place and expects respect and deserves an apology: one from the mouthy gal and one from management for not taking appropriate action after this happened. You can do without brats annoying and hurting regular serious paying customers! I guess it depends on what type of place you want to present to your customers and what type of clientelle you prefer to serve.

Marching this gal over to his table next time they happen to be in at the same time, assuming that this man ever decides to set foot in your cafe again....and suggesting that she sincerely apologize may be reaching, but I believe that if she is centered out and called on her rude behaviour, and has it clearly outlined that it ain't gonna happen again on your turf again, it may be a starting point to her realizing that she doesn't own the earth and that her insensitivity doesn't wash in the real world! That, to me, is the crux of the issue: people don't react to rudeness....except with stunned silence. Then, in most cases, the moment to rectify the appalling behaviour quickly slips away....In your case, however, there is an opportunity to "fix" this whole mess, at least in part.

This poor innocent gent needs to be ensured that management will not tolerate bullying of any sort because they appreciate customers such as himself and would like to be proactive in preventing and correcting this type of behaviour from occurring again in your fine cafe!! That is the least that should and could happen.

Giving her a proper dressing down upon her next visit and eliciting an apology from her to him, and to the store, is the other half of the equation.

Managing to address both parties would be the ideal, but do what you can.

At the very least, do console the man and reassure him that this type of behaviour is forbidden and that you sincerely regret this incident and hope that he continues to enjoy dropping into your coffee shop as much as you enjoy having him there;)

papillonmama
May 30th, 2006, 08:02 PM
"SHe gave him this glare and said "f off you f-ing psycho retard" (this is EXACTLY what she said (except she used the full words) and huddled away as if he was going to touch and infect her. This hurt the man more than I can describe. He looked so crushed. He was so close to tears. I felt so horrible for him, and furious at this girl."

Here's my 2 cents worth, a bit wordy, but hopefully helpful:

I figure that any establishment has rules of conduct: no swearing, spitting, rudeness, etc.....

If this "young lady" comes in again, (are they a regular pack of teens?), perhaps you can have your boss, (you??), take her aside and sternly, yet politely, tell her that this behaviour is NOT tolerated in or near the premises and if she cannot be civil and polite to, not only the customers, but staff as well, she is no longer welcome for her frappa-whatzit. Do not back down and do not take any lip. An unwanted mouthpiece can be charged with tresspassing. Mention that......

Seems to me that the gentleman spends much more time and money in your place and expects respect and deserves an apology: one from the mouthy gal and one from management for not taking appropriate action after this happened. You can do without brats annoying and hurting regular serious paying customers! I guess it depends on what type of place you want to present to your customers and what type of clientelle you prefer to serve.

Marching this gal over to his table next time they happen to be in at the same time, assuming that this man ever decides to set foot in your cafe again....and suggesting that she sincerely apologize may be reaching, but I believe that if she is centered out and called on her rude behaviour, and has it clearly outlined that it ain't gonna happen again on your turf again, it may be a starting point to her realizing that she doesn't own the earth and that her insensitivity doesn't wash in the real world! That, to me, is the crux of the issue: people don't react to rudeness....except with stunned silence. Then, in most cases, the moment to rectify the appalling behaviour quickly slips away....In your case, however, there is an opportunity to "fix" this whole mess, at least in part.

This poor innocent gent needs to be ensured that management will not tolerate bullying of any sort because they appreciate customers such as himself and would like to be proactive in preventing and correcting this type of behaviour from occurring again in your fine cafe!! That is the least that should and could happen.

Giving her a proper dressing down upon her next visit and eliciting an apology from her to him, and to the store, is the other half of the equation.

Managing to address both parties would be the ideal, but do what you can.

At the very least, do console the man and reassure him that this type of behaviour is forbidden and that you sincerely regret this incident and hope that he continues to enjoy dropping into your coffee shop as much as you enjoy having him there;)


Amen, I'm sure there's another (same-named) unnamed establishment across the street or close by she can frequent. Teenagers don't know that that sort of behaviour is unacceptable until someone, aside from their parents, says something. They seem to live in a bubble until they find out that the real world is much larger than they thought, and that people won't always carry them through life, well, mostly, some really are spoiled.

I was once on a bus with a bunch of rude teens, and they started telling off a little old lady, and I mean she really was a little old lady, tiny and frail. I told them they should leave her alone or maybe they would rather walk the rest of the way. Luckily for me, this was a long time ago when kids just brought pencils to school and not guns.

Puppyluv
May 30th, 2006, 08:46 PM
If he is back tomorrow, I will deffinately talk to the man, and appologize for what happened. I will also tell my manager, who was not in when this happened. I was just so shocked when it happened, and by the time I really realized what should be done, it was too late, she had gone off to get her drink, and to catch up with her would have meant leaving the cash registers unmanned, and about 30 people waiting to order. I did recognize the girl and if I see her again, I will let my manager know. I can tell her that it's not appropriate etc, but I dont have the authority to tell her that if it continues, she will no longer be welcome, but my manager does, and she has used it in the past and will again if she has to.
The biggest problem is that the company already caters to a certain group of people, this classification is not a bad thing, I too am a customer there, and have been since jr high. But on top of that, the community that the store is located in is a very "particular" neighbourhood. While some of our customers are absolutely wonderful souls, some believe they own the world. We are currently training 8 new employees, so sometimes a drink may take a little longer, or may not be quite as dry/wet/extra hot/etc as the customer is used to. The nice customers recognize that they need the opportunity to learn, and having an extra 1/4 ounce of milk, or having their latte be 195 degrees and not 200 degrees (both temperatures of milk, is spilled on our hands result in at least first degree burns, but many people request it) for a day or two is not a big deal. Others however can not fathom the idea of having foam that isn't quite as creamy as usual, or having two fewer ice cubes, and demand that the drink be remade.
Uggh.. it may not sound like it, but I love my job. I meet some of the greatest people, both coworkers and customers, have met a few famous people (we are located in a primarily english-speaking region of montreal, so a lot of non-french speaking travellers, actors included, come by), we get great benefits, but sometimes the customers treat us like ****. I have become used to this, but this was the first time I've seen a customer treat another customer like ****, and it just isn't the same. At least I'm getting payed to be yelled at.

Prin
May 30th, 2006, 10:45 PM
I would have said something like "As if he wants to touch you- you've got the herp written all over your face". Hehe :evil:

(That's my forte- spur of the moment comebacks...)

Seriously, if I ever have kids, no way in hey are they getting cell phones. But then how will I contact them, you ask? Having a cell phone doesn't mean it's on or the punk will even answer it when I call...:rolleyes:

LM1313
May 30th, 2006, 10:46 PM
While there are certainly unruly, rude teens, there's also a very strong prejudice against teenagers.

Think of the reaction whenever someone mentions a teenager being rude. Or involved in a crime.

Now think of how people react when someone thirty, forty, or fifty years old does the same thing.

Teens are the pit bulls of society, the actions of one teen being the cue for adults to bemoan "kids these days!!" and "WE weren't that bad". Their elders are the labradors and golden retrievers, whose inappropriate actions are immediately identified as the exception to the breed. Not like those vicious pit bulls who should all be muzzled and put down.

Don't get me wrong, that girl was RUDE, incredibly rude. Shame on her. But it didn't happen because she's a teen, but rather because she chose to be rude, which she could do at any age.

That said, it would make me very uncomfortable if a strange man tried to strike up a conversation with me, and it would make me even more uncomfortable if I was a teenage girl! We have a big sexual predator problem here . . . I sat on a jury and listened to the testimony of a teenager who was waiting at a bus stop when a guy offered her a ride and, when she refused, tried to drag her into his car as she struggled and screamed. The guy was in his late fifties and looked like a small, harmless bank clerk or accountant, not the sort of man to pull a knife on a girl and tell her to stop struggling or he'd break her neck; IMO, it pays to be cautious.

Of course I wouldn't SWEAR at a complete stranger, that's not appropriate, but the best response you'd get from me would be a civil but short response (like "Thanks." or "Yeah.") in a tone that made it clear I wasn't interested in continuing the conversation.

~LM~

Prin
May 30th, 2006, 10:48 PM
I understand the sexual predator thing, but making a predator angry is not the way to go... Picking your nose is a better way of fending off a predator, IMO, than insulting him, no? And besides, you're in a very public place.

jiorji
May 30th, 2006, 11:01 PM
oh yes...the new teen generation that thinks the world owes them everything and they think everybody wants a piece of their body. ugh!


I cannot describe how much i LOATHE teens! I cringe when they get on the bus and i avoid those species at all times! And listening to their conversations on the bus does not make my day any better. They're rude, impolite and to listen to them struggle to put a well formed sentence together about how their day was makes me want to stab myself. Yes, well........that's how much i dislike their presence :evil:


I guarantee that if the guy was 19ish and he was "hot" she would've flirted with him instantly. idiot.
I hope the poor man knows better to ignore that girl's comments.:love:

LM1313
May 30th, 2006, 11:06 PM
Well, I read if you're in danger of being raped and can't get away, the best things to do are vomit, say you're having your period, and cuss them out like a foul-mouthed sailor. But especially the vomitting, apparently!

Men who aren't sex offenders can still have an inappropriate and creepy interest in women and especially in teenage girls. For example, when I was on vacation in San Diego, I was on the bus and there was this guy, about thirty-five or so, hitting on this poor girl who was trying her best to discourage him while still being polite, which was more than I would've done.

Him: (after many inneundos) Soooo, how old are you?

Her: Uh, sixteen.

Him: Oh, twenty-one?

Her: No, sixteen.

Him: *leer* Twenty-one?

Being in a public place doesn't deter people like that; public buses and the park are the worst places for it in my experience.

I'm not saying that this guy was like that. But it's not like you could KNOW that unless you already knew him. If it were me, I would've been uncomfortable.

Edit: Actually, being in a public place doesn't mean sex offenders won't go after you anyway. I mentioned I was on a jury, right? Well, this guy was a piece of work, let me tell you. In addition to raping a woman for hours in her car while her two young kids were in the front seat (which was at night in a remote place), he also tried to abduct that girl I mentioned in the afternoon at a bus stop, and was in fact stopped when someone did see what was happening and basically chased him in his car until he was cornered. Then in ANOTHER incident, he exposed himself to two little girls (eight and nine) behind a local animal shelter and told them to touch his penis--that one happened around noon. He was also cruising a park shortly after he was released from treatment before reoffending, which was, again, in broad daylight. The guy had VERY poor impulse control--not sure if that's true of all sexual predators or not--so time of day made little difference. Scary, scary.

~LM~

abudamunky
May 31st, 2006, 01:48 AM
i also work in a nation wide.....um....fruit blended drink store ;) and we've had many problems w/ people on cell phones. ordering while the blenders are a going, walking away while we call out your order 15 billion times. even our own enployees dont' have the respect to not check their cell phones or have them out of the 'front line' with them. i do agree that MOST teenagers do not have respect for what they have these days, i will not go into the conversations with the 16 yr olds (i'll be 20 in a week) over bills and such.
Sometimes it's hard not to stereotype teens but those of us who work in these places see so many of the same kids (12 yr olds who look like they're 16with make-up, mommy's credit card and daddy's BMW, "um, like, strawberries wild with, um, like, energy") but there are also so many of 'us teenagers' (i'm still kinda a kid) that have worked hard in life.
rememeber for every teenager you want to punch in the face for being plain ol rude, there are 5 of us who just need a warm bed to sleep in at night(and a kitty to love on :p )
**add**
I don't think that that certain young lady would even give the older man the time of day again let alone appolgize. i think the best thing that your store can do is to appolgize to the man. In my experience with property management you can't tell a customer to not come into your store anymore unless they have does damage or have offended people many times. keep an eye on this young lady and if things worsten, tell property mangement and they can offically escort her off the property if she comes in again. otherwise the only thing your mangaer can do is keep an eye on her. the company won't give a damn cuz she gives them $5 to put in their pocket.
i love my job at "amba-jay uice-jay" as much as you enjoy "ar-stay ucks-bay" but we deserve respect from these punk ass teens....or a permit to punch them in their face when ever the heck we feel like it :-D

Puppyluv
May 31st, 2006, 08:00 AM
I agree that there is a fairly large amount of sexual predation out there. I myself have been the recipient of many unwanted comments, and I also know the injustice felt when nothing is done to rectify this. But 1) there is no reason what so ever to call this man a retard 2) it was so obvious to everyone around, even those that didn't know this man, that he was being friendly.
I know this girl was not representative of every teenager out there, but she is not alone in her behaviour and attitude. If she is from the communtiy of the store, which I am sure she is, she was born with a silver spoon in her mouth. No, make that a platinum one. Just as an example, the cell phone she was on costs about $400, we're not talking about any cell phone, but the newest, nicest one out there, not to mention that she probably had an "old" cell phone which works just fine, but isn't flashy pink, and isn't 1/2 an inch thick. Being given things in life doesn't necessarily lead to this atrocious behaviour. It depends on how these things are given, and how the parents deal with their child. In this girls case, it appears as though the items were given in the form of "here's mommy's black american express, go buy what you want... I'll never see the bill, as the balance is automatically withdrawn from my chequing account each month"
Anyways... I do hope I see that man here today. I will let you know if I get the opportunity to talk to him.

HunterXHunter
May 31st, 2006, 08:45 AM
Yeah, teenagers today are mostly ******* up and have a total disregard for authority and have little to no respect.

I remember one incident last summer when I was on my way home on the TTC. I take the Steeles East bus, and during rush hours, there's 2 types, the regular service ones, and the Express which skips like the first 15-20 stops. I've seen many times where people would rush onto the bus without seeing first which bus it is (they stop at different platforms to load passengers to try to minimize this, but ppl still don't seem to read...). Anyhow, usually what happens is the passenger realizes that they've gotten on the wrong bus and will often plead with the bus driver to let them off before its first designated stop. Some do, some don't; if they do, they're doing you a favor, if they don't, they're just following the rules & regulations. For this one time, the two passengers were 2 teenage girls (~15-17). At first, they asked politely, to which the bus driver replied "I'm sorry I can't let you off here, this is an express, blah blah...". The girls pleaded some more but no use. Then they started touching the bus' instrument panel and trying to pull at the steering wheel WHILE THE BUS IS IN MOTION. I mean, is it THAT hard to see what implications doing that might have!?!? Because of their behaviour, the bus driver was forced to let them off early for everyone else's safety. When those girls got off they swore at the bus driver and threw their drinks at him, which went all over the seat, steering wheel, instrument panel, etc. I felt bad for the guy, but nothing much I or anyone else on the bus could do...

lezzpezz
May 31st, 2006, 09:18 AM
Apparently I have 4 cents in my pocket! I gave you 2 yesterday...here's the rest:p

I think the point I am trying to make is that there is no need for rudeness of any sort from ANY age group, and we seem to be almost accepting, if not immune to it, and I think that it is a pretty sad state of affairs when we have come to accept this as the "norm".

I am one of those who DOES intervene on behalf of the "underdog" if you will, and will blatantly speak out to the rude individual and try to stand up for the one being berated, bothered, harrassed, what have you. My husband hates that I get involved, but we, as a society, HAVE TO! We need to take back the old values, you know: when everyone said "please" and "thank you"; let the elderly take your seat on the bus; help a fellow pick up his papers when he's accidentally dropped them on the street; hold the door for someone who can't manage it. I DO IT!

I know many teens personally, (several great and polite kids on my street), and encounter many more at work, some employees and some patrons. I work at the library right in downtown London Ont. and believe me, this is becoming the most dangerous, filthy and unsavoury environment to work in. Robberies, shootings, foul language, saddened folks that are now homeless, have mental challenges....you name it, we got it in a daily barrage.

And some of the teens are the ones that we have been talking about in this thread.

I think that they are definitely a product of their environment. Many I meet are homeless and ask where the daily food banks are, yet are the most polite folks I may encounter on a given day. Others I meet are so involved in their cell phone conversations, bubblegum blowing and how low slung their skirts and pants can legally be, to care about manners. Seems they were never taught any! It's all about who can be the loudest, most aggressive and least clothed!! Oh, and who can have a baby first amongst their peers.....such a shame.....

BUT! I will speak to those that behave like cretons and demand respect, politeness and appropriate behaviour. They can act like monkeys out of my site, but when you are around my workplace and others who are trying to read/study or just have some quiet to meditate, ya better be on your best behaviour or you do get the boot unceremoniously!:evil:

LibbyP
May 31st, 2006, 09:59 AM
Amen lezzpezz, and that's all I really have to add on this topic:thumbs up

lezzpezz
May 31st, 2006, 10:16 AM
I see you are a Londoner too! So you know that what I speak of to be fairly accurate when it comes to downtown London!

Keep Cool!!:cool:

rainbow
May 31st, 2006, 02:10 PM
lezzpezz, I agree with you 100% :thumbs up

Prin
May 31st, 2006, 02:16 PM
I agree. I tend to be a bully bully too. I can't stand when people put other people down just to pretend for a minute that they have more self worth. :rolleyes:

Shamrock
May 31st, 2006, 02:31 PM
What Lezzpezz said.. and very well.thumbs up

lezzpezz
May 31st, 2006, 03:41 PM
Perhaps more readers will take a stand and "take back" our world. I am not old, only 43, but times have certainly changed since I was a kid, I'll tell ya.
I ate my fair share of pepper and soap when I was a kid!:p I got spanked. I got grounded and it stuck. I got sent to bed without much dinner on occasion, sat facing a corner for a while now and then and also sent for a nap while the other kids got to play outside.

As I got older, (teen) and apparently no wiser, I got locked out, then kicked out. My own fault. You want to be an adult...BOOM....go for it!

And the mistakes and lessons from then on were unforgettable!! But I made it. Stubborn...that's me....but so was my mom. She still is and so am I.

Because of her firm hand and rules, I am no doubt a better person in this society.

Kids nowadays are having kids. Never happened when I was young and if it did, that was a true rarity. It's a society where everyone expects everything on a silver platter. You can sue anyone for anything. You can buy a gun easily. Drugs everywhere. Kinda depressing, but why is it like this?

Lots of reasons I suppose. But I think it starts with our youth and the lack of values that are instilled at home and the lack of responsibility that anyone (parents!) take when their kids break the law, act out, bully others etc. Easier to blame someone else. The parenting skills seemed to have been missed during the last round of parents who now have teens. And these teens are now becoming parents! Just imagine how their offspring are going to turn out! GASP!:eek:

There is an nice thing about my relationship with my mom now. She has just moved in! Her health isn't fabulous but she is okay and under my care. I love her and we have had a bonus relationship since stubborn me moved out at 16.

I wonder if I can ground her!!:D

rainbow
May 31st, 2006, 03:55 PM
Another excellent post lezzpezz. :thumbs up

I think you should go into politics so you can fix our "Young Offenders Act". ;)

chico2
May 31st, 2006, 04:11 PM
Reading Puppyluvs story almost made me cry,that poor man,he probably never hurt anyone in his life:sad:
This girl,is very much part of the ME-generation,it's scary to think she could hurt another persons feelings that way,darn right evil:evil:
Cell-phones really bother me and when and where people use them.
I have one and it stays in my car,for emergencies only..nobody needs to reach me that badly,that I have to talk to them wherever I am.
I think it's incredibly rude,in a restaurant or anywhere else where people have to listen to you jabbering.IMO

LM1313
May 31st, 2006, 04:47 PM
Kids nowadays are having kids. Never happened when I was young and if it did, that was a true rarity.

Actually, the height of teen pregnancies (in the US) was . . . the 1950s! :) Yep. The number began and continued to decline from 1960 on to 1992, according to the study I looked at. I'm not sure if it went up after 1992 or if that's just when the study ended. Not sure what Canada's teen pregnancy rates look like through the decades, but I wouldn't be surprised if they correlated. Joe Average here in the States also has the impression that teen pregnancy right now is the worst it's been, ever, but then it's human nature to glorify the past and regret the present.

Anyway, in the US not only have teen pregnancies continued to fall, but also the school violence rate has been dropping since about the early 1990s--not that you'd get the impression if you watched the news. But it's true.

Puppyluv
May 31st, 2006, 04:58 PM
Anyway, in the US not only have teen pregnancies continued to fall, but also the school violence rate has been dropping since about the early 1990s--not that you'd get the impression if you watched the news. But it's true.

Teen "pregnancies", highschool violence and crime have all been on rthe decline, most notably since abortions became legalized in the United States. (For a very interesting analysis of this, read freakonomics (http://www.freakonomics.com/))

LM1313
May 31st, 2006, 05:50 PM
Yes, abortions, contraceptives, and sex education have all made an impact, both on teen and non-teen pregnancies. It's not like when my parents were kids, with one of them having six siblings and the other having nine. :eek:

Skryker
May 31st, 2006, 05:54 PM
Perhaps more readers will take a stand and "take back" our world. I am not old, only 43, but times have certainly changed since I was a kid, I'll tell ya.
I ate my fair share of pepper and soap when I was a kid!:p I got spanked. I got grounded and it stuck. I got sent to bed without much dinner on occasion, sat facing a corner for a while now and then and also sent for a nap while the other kids got to play outside.

As I got older, (teen) and apparently no wiser, I got locked out, then kicked out. My own fault. You want to be an adult...BOOM....go for it!


Lots of reasons I suppose. But I think it starts with our youth and the lack of values that are instilled at home and the lack of responsibility that anyone (parents!) take when their kids break the law, act out, bully others etc. Easier to blame someone else. The parenting skills seemed to have been missed during the last round of parents who now have teens. And these teens are now becoming parents! Just imagine how their offspring are going to turn out! GASP!:eek:

There is an nice thing about my relationship with my mom now. She has just moved in! Her health isn't fabulous but she is okay and under my care. I love her and we have had a bonus relationship since stubborn me moved out at 16.

I wonder if I can ground her!!:D


All very valid points.

It's an odd thing-many people comment on how strict my husband and I are with our daughter (as though it's a bad thing)-and we are, within reason, and according to the way I was brought up. Funniest thing-the same people who comment on how we are "too strict" or "too tough" are the same people who praise the kid for how polite and helpful and well mannered she is. DUH!!!!! How do think she got that way?!? US, that's how. Setting limits and letting her know firmly what is not acceptable. I get kinda hot under the collar sometimes, because the way the too strict/what a good kid comments come together, it seems like people are criticizing us for being too hard on such a wonderful kid, like the wonderful part is completely natural and independent of home rules. :mad:

And some it rubs off on her friends-if you were to hear them when they don't think we are around-YIKES!! But they are polite and respectful when they are around us parents. Yes, they can be taught!

My relationship with my parents more than survived their rules. Thing was, they never worried about being our friends. They were always our parents first and foremost. Now we can be friends. I take the same attitude with my daughter. Right now, I'm her Mom and she is often mad at me. Later on, we can be friends.

lezzpezz
June 1st, 2006, 09:07 AM
I am from a smaller town and when I was a kid, I only recall one girl from my highschool that was pregnant the whole time that I was there, and she was "sent away" I guess, to have her baby or whatever evil shunning parents did to innocent gals back then.

It was just not a common site, or maybe I didn't see it. There were only 3 highschools in town and I didn't have anything to do with 2 of them. Guess I lived a pretty small town sheltered life!

It seems so much more prevalent these days.....larger city, larger population....may just be more "in my face" today than back in my youth:o

Kayla1984
June 1st, 2006, 10:01 AM
All's I have to say is that my parents would have tanned my ass if I had have ever spoke to anyone let alone an adult that way when I was younger!

LibbyP
June 1st, 2006, 10:03 AM
Hi Skryker, We to are very strict with our children, and the same comments are made about how polite and well-behaved they are. I have kids here on many occassions (daycare) and EVERYONE has the same rules, they know what flys and what cannot, and I don't think thats a bad thing either. I do find it weird when the kids that are in your care listen to you instead of their parents when their parents are in the same room. I think children today need boundries set and kept, its important to them and society that they have some sort of stability. Yes I'm not her favorite mommy right now and it hurts my feelings to hear that but I know this to will pass:fingerscr Just another example of rude disrespectful children - last night we went to emerg with my daughter, little boy in the cube beside ours told his mom F*** you, I couldn't believe it and she really didn't say to much back, really sad

glasslass
June 1st, 2006, 10:21 AM
Lots of coffee/juice/library people on this particular thread! I work in a community college library so have lots of contact with young people, both as patrons and as student employees. The majority of them are serious, hard-working individuals who are trying to get an education and find a quiet place to study. They are polite and very appreciative of any help they receive in finding materials they need for assignments. Yes, we do have to deal with cells and a few individuals who want to get out of the heat/cold/rain and just socialize with their contemporaries. We have little tolerance. When they're loud and disruptive, they're interfering with the students who are there to study. We ask them to keep it down. Usually a quiet word or look is all it takes. For those who persist and don't heed the second warning, we call security. By doing this consistently, we have few problems. When you overlook infractions and don't take action, the problem accelerates and it's next to impossible to later jump in and try to restore respect and consideration. I try not to be hard-nose. I've had students come up to the counter with a conversation on their cell in progress. I usually just have to raise my eyebrows and say in an amused voice, "Now, I KNOW you're NOT talking on that cell here in the library right in front of me, are you?" They always grin and put it away with a "No! Of course I'm not doing THAT!" I think young people are, for the most part, good people, just not always in the habit of thinking about it. They need gentle reminders every time they forget. They do learn. They also learn if those reminders are not there to think it's perfectly ok when nobody objects.

Puppyluv
June 1st, 2006, 08:33 PM
I forgot to post this yesterday, but the man came back yesterday, and today for that matter. I spoke to him yesterday and appologized for what happened and assured him that we would do everything in our power to make sure it didn't happen again. I asked him if he wanted us to say anything to the girl, and he said that he'd rather not have it brought up again, and not let her know how much it bothered him (he seemed embarrassed by the fact that it bothered him). I told him that I respected his choice, but did point out why it might be a good idea for us (staff) to approach her, but he was insistent that it be dropped, so it was. He said that he didn't associate the comment with our shop, and that he loves seeing us and talking to us all day too much to not come back (that really made my day:)). I am deffinately going to keep my eyes open for future occurences. The only problem is, if I do confront a customer, I seriously run the risk of losing my job. I don't think people realize how seriously our company takes the "the customer is always right" motto. You don't like your drink? We remake it (even if it was technically perfect, if you don't actually know what a cappuccino is supposed to taste like, that's our problem, not yours). For the time you are in our store, you are our friends. We have conversations with you, some of which we truly enjoy, some of which are just painful. I think in this situation, if I had said something, I would have been fine, but it's only because it was soooo rude. If it was only borderline rude... I would have been fired. Ideally, I shouldn't even consider the fact that I might lose my job, but it's not something I can afford to do. I just hope that it doesn't happen again. Or if it does, that I'm not working at the time, so I can say whatever the hell I want without worry.

chico2
June 2nd, 2006, 06:46 AM
Puppluv,I worked in a restaurant for many years,very part-time(2days/week)and I learned a lot about people and their behaviour.
"The Customer is always right"does not apply anymore(at least in theory),Human Rights does!!
I worked with several women,who put up with abuse and rudeness,simply because they needed their job and it was often up to me to talk to customers,who had brought a girl to tears by rudeness.
If any customer behaved badly,he/she was not welcome back,but often an ounce of diplomacy,rendered an apology.
Some people are just not aware they are being rude,too much in to their own self-importance.
Obviously this man does not want attention on himself,but I would definitely keep an eye on any bad behaviour.To him,his daily coffee and Danish,probably means the world and he is every bit as important as a customer,as this rude girl. Good job for caring P-L:thumbs up

lezzpezz
June 2nd, 2006, 10:49 AM
And will continue to do so! Just by making contact with him and reassuring him with an apology etc., you have made him much more comfortable.

In the future, if problems arise of this nature, take it to the supervisor....that's his/her job, afterall. But if there is an obvious comotion and blatant rudeness going on that needs to be addressed right then and there, I would say that you are within your rights to protect and fend for your customers. Use your judgement. I don't think you can be fired for helping someone who is being treated shabbily by a person who is way outta line.

Glad that things worked out okay.:thumbs up

CyberKitten
June 2nd, 2006, 06:06 PM
Just a quick response - one of those busy weeks!! Arrrrrrrrghhhhhhhhhhhh!!! I hate hearing stories like yours!! I am involved in an ability rights org - two actually (one is a post I am appointed to by govt) - and I get VERY upset when hearing that word. I would have said something to her no matter what!!! No holds barred either tho I would have been polite, as I usually try to be.

My nephew - now 21 - has always had a cell phone but it was for security purposes. In these days is such uncertainty, his mother wanted to know where he was and wanted to be able to get in touch with him. He is well behaved and never absues it.

I think so much is how teens are raised tho I do know there are exceptions to that rule.

I have met some wonderful teens in my work and have great hope for the future. (and they comne from all demographic backgrounds tho primarily from the Maritimes so cannot speak for the rest of Canada). I think they are like adults might have seen us at one time, some bad, some good, most inbetween. None of us is perfect but racism and discrimination is an absolute no no!!!!!

Skryker
June 2nd, 2006, 07:02 PM
As I said earlier, I don't think ALL teens are bad at all. some are just fine; rudeness in general seems to be on the uprise among all age groups. It's a shame.

Cyber-Kitten-I completely agree that "that word" is totally offensive and insensitive. I wonder if this girl learned it from her parents? since intolerances often start at home. It's also very unlikely that she's ever had much contact with anyone who is very different from herself. Also a shame-it might open her eyes to gain some personal experience before passing judgement on another.

LM1313
June 2nd, 2006, 07:08 PM
Puppyluv, you're doing such a great job of making that guy feel better and making it clear that he's welcomed . . . good for you. :)

Yeah, I hate hearing "retard" flung around as an insult . . . "That show's retarded, that movie's retarded . . ." :mad: I also hate hearing about how movies are "gay". :mad:

CyberKitten
June 2nd, 2006, 09:28 PM
I cringe even seeing it in print!! We promote inclusion in our school and health care system and we are always into interesting debates - and I get rather passionate about the whole issue. We awarded several ppl last week for their efforts - some teachers, a few employers (we need more tho!), organizations.

Just when you think you have come a long way - there is THAT ugly word again, sighhhhhh! And yeah, she prob did hear it at home or else it was not corrected there and she thus thinks it's OK. Which is really her loss because even in leadership, you need to look for folks with different perspectives.

Prin
June 2nd, 2006, 10:18 PM
Just another example of rude disrespectful children - last night we went to emerg with my daughter, little boy in the cube beside ours told his mom F*** you, I couldn't believe it and she really didn't say to much back, really sad
Argh! We were on a small ferry once and there was a woman and maybe 6 year old son in a jeep in front of us. The little kid was standing on his seat punching his mom on the head. She just sat there. :mad: :rolleyes: I pity any girl that goes within 10 feet of that punk when he grows up.

Puppyluv, I think it's great that you offered to stand up for the guy. :)

LM1313
June 2nd, 2006, 11:21 PM
Oh, you know what gets me? Parents who jaywalk with their young kids. You've got a four or six year old who NEEDS to learn that the red hand means stop and then you waltz on through the light? GOOD LESSON!

AshleyMic
June 6th, 2006, 12:52 PM
I am 24 years old so I was a teenager not that long ago. I am however appalled by the behaviour of the teenagers I encounter on a daily basis. Never have I seen a ruder, more inconsiderate group in my life. When I was that age I would have never dreamed of disrespecting an adult and that is because of how I was raised. My mother never hit me or anything like that but she taught me to respect others as well as to respect myself.
All women need to be cautious and aware because unfortunately the threat of sexual predators is a very real one, however what this girl did was comepletely uncalled for. The names she called him imply that she knew he was a little slower then average and she deliberately choose those words because she knew they would hurt the most. It seems to just be getting worse, I am almost scared to see what society's youth will be like in another 5 years.
Oh and it's not just teenagers who can be rude, people in general seem to have some kind of chip on their shoulder. That is why I much rather hang around my dog.

lezzpezz
June 8th, 2006, 01:17 PM
In the last hour, I have read a tshirt on a boy and a hat on a little girl, that express the feelings of what some of today's youth live and feel like:

Boy's tshirt: "my dad is an ATM machine"

Girl's pink ballcap, studded with crystals: "This is what SPOILED looks like"

Enough said....:o

rainbow
June 8th, 2006, 02:00 PM
So, it's the parents of these kids that have the same attitude....that's where they learned it from. :eek:

lezzpezz
June 8th, 2006, 03:03 PM
supposing the parents are the ones springing for the clothing, then, yes, I guess that is where kids learn this from. Parents giving in and reinforcing the greedy attitude instead of parenting and saying "No, you can't have everything you want..."

chico2
June 8th, 2006, 03:42 PM
I think kids today learn more from their peers,Television,computers etc..than from the parents.
Many parents are just too busy,working to get all the"things"everybody"needs"today.
In many instances,parents just do not have,or take the time to teach the kids.
I am really happy my kids grew up in the the late 60's,early 70's,we would never have been able to afford,cell-phones,I-Pods,PC's,200$$ running-shoes for our kids,but one thing is for sure,they learned respect and definitely to love animals..and mom was there whenever there was a problem.

Puppyluv
June 8th, 2006, 03:53 PM
I agreee Chico. I babysit three young children three days a week while the mom is at work. I have a mjor influence on their behaviour and I know it. It saddens me however when we go to the park and other children behave like hooligans. Making fun of other kids, hitting etc, and the caregiver (parent, nanny, babysitter, etc) does nothing about it. More than once I have told another child that their behaviour is not appropriate, and more than once I have had a caregiver rip me apart for it. The children I look after are all very small blondes (and cute as buttons ;)) and they get teased endlessly by some of the bigger kids on the playground, using names that are so old and innapropriate, I didn't even think they were still used. Have of the words these kids use are meaningless to them, they just hear it on tv, in movies, songs, the street, or yes, their parents/caregivers. I often find that some of the worst behaved children are with nannies who can't speak their language, and thus exert zero control over them. These are 6 year olds! If we can't control our young children, how do we expect to control our teenagers??

Feral_cats
June 9th, 2006, 06:13 PM
ok now i have to reply to this thread because i was just at the mall and teens have no respect even for other teens .
i was at the mall and theres about 6 girls(probally 13-15) standing outside the doors under a overhang smoking swearing there little heads off and talking about the things they just STOLE from the mall . since its dinner time theres alot of people with there babies and young kids leaving the doors (walking into a pile of smoke) .. now i am a smoker but i will cross the street if theres anyone (i refuse to smoke near non smokers and children). and since its a mall and the security gaurds are strict they made it so you have to be 18 or 19 + to smoke on property , so i wanderd over and said "hey could you guys please move . theres familys and stuff . if you guys want to smoke thats fine but there is people trying to leave and i dont think they want to smell your smoke or hear you cussing " there responce was " shut the f up, who do you think you are you stupid b " so at this point im ferious , as angry as i was i realized i coulden't do anything about this and i didnt want to start anything infront of the familys, i casually walked inside found one of the security gaurds (im there quite often so i know him) and told him that there was a bunch of girls outside the doors under the age of 15 smoking under the over hang swearing there mouths off and talking about things they just stole , so he went out side and started talking to them , so i went in and orderd and waited for my pizza , came out 20 mins later and there was a couple of police officers, maybe that will teach them to have more respect? because i dont think they will be getting a couple hundred dollers to go shopping from there parents anytime soon, they are going to have some fines and probally some charges or diversion to pay up and deal with first