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Dewclaw removal!! For or against?

erykah1310
May 29th, 2006, 11:16 PM
Im confused now with this board!
Lets see if i have this right...
Dont declaw cats... inhumane and cruel, is an amputation!
Dock tails... some breeds can hurt their tails ( also an amputation)
Dont crop ears.... Inhumane and cruel, another amputation
Now Im sure that there is some GREAT reasons to amputate dew claws! Myself I say NO, no reason to dock, crop, declaw or remove dew claws! Thats just me though.
Meiko has his dewclaws and he is a very active country dog who is yet to rip them off or cause other trauma to them! I dont know???? Perhaps because I keep the nail short?
Iknow the main argument FOR dewclaw removal is going to be that the dog can injure itself with them, however, they can also injure thier toes, eyes, noses, ears, legs and so on and so forth. We dont AMPUTATE them on the dogs do we?

I dont know? None the less it is starting to freak me out how some people are all for one kind of amputation because of some "valid reason" yet so against another kind for another!
I know that there is no reason to declaw a cat other than treasuring your furniture more than your pets. However, I dont see how any of the other things listed have any valid reasons???
Please some one help set me straight on this!!!!:o

Prin
May 29th, 2006, 11:32 PM
If your dog has romped and never damaged his dewclaws, it's because they aren't big enough.

Boo's back ones stuck out like human thumbs. We had his back ones removed and left the front ones. His front ones protrude more than most dogs, I'd say, but they aren't a danger to himself. His back ones REALLY stuck out. They stuck out to the point where when they were there, they were all I played with on him (you know, how you instinctually play with floppy ears? Well, I played with his big floppy dew claws instead).

Basically, I wouldn't have removed them but my vet told me that dewclaws that big were not going to last long and incisions heal better than rips.:eek:

Docking tails, depends on the breed. I would never dock a tail like Boo's where it's all fluffy and protected by fur, but I would consider docking a whip-like tail that would most likely cause painful episodes in the dog's life. Better to dock it when they're young than amputate it when they're older because of some trauma. I'd only dock if there was a real benefit to the dog to not have his particular tail.

Ear cropping is nothing but cosmetic and has no benefits for the dog.
Declawing cats is ONLY for us, and has no benefit for the cat.

phoenix
May 29th, 2006, 11:40 PM
I ditto everything Prin said.:thumbs up

glasslass
May 29th, 2006, 11:46 PM
My previous dog ripped his dewclaw and it was very painful for him. Now I'm very much in favor of removing them when very young and simple to do. Some dogs have very loose dewclaws that are easily caught on things.

erykah1310
May 29th, 2006, 11:59 PM
Umm, k, so what about the poor Beauceron? They have double rear dew-claws!

http://www.akc.org/breeds/beauceron/index.cfm

The way im seeing it is that its a disqualification if this dog doesnt have the double dewclaw, by the sounds of things this breed would be in most danger of tearing one off. However Breed standard states "Dewclaws: Double dew claw on the rear leg; dewclaws placed on the inside, forming "thumbs" well separated one from the other ideally; close to the foot to create a larger weight-bearing surface. Faults: Double dewclaw placed too high on the leg or represented by two superimposed stumps; Disqualification: Anything less than double dewclaws on each rear leg."

Prin
May 30th, 2006, 12:06 AM
From what I know, dewclaws are sort of proof of a lineage. If you have one gene, you have the dewclaws. But if you get a dog with hind dewclaws and you aren't showing, it's better for the dog if you remove them. Most vets will suggest you remove them at the time of neutering.

BMDLuver
May 30th, 2006, 06:27 AM
There are two types of dewclaws, articulated (set in bone) and non-articulated (no bone set). The one's that are in danger obviously of being torn off are the latter.

We routinely remove them based on the above.

Of course, if the "breeder" had nipped them when they were under 3 days of age, then the removal would not be necessary which is also the time to dock a tail if it must be done to breed specification.

K9Friend
May 30th, 2006, 06:28 AM
I had my dog's rear dewclaws removed when she got spayed. They were big and stuck out too - vet told me they would probably tear off or get caught in something and apparently - they bleed like crazy when they do! :eek:

Lissa
May 30th, 2006, 10:46 AM
My friend's family breeds Ridgies and they were all for removing dewclaws until they realized that one of their girls was actually using them to pivot when wrestling. They are no longer for it.

I am not sure where I stand. I am sure it would depend on the situation but until I face it, I would have to say that I am against tail docking, dew claw removal, ear cropping etc...

Rottielover
May 30th, 2006, 11:42 AM
I would have to say that I prefer them to be removed based on the ripping...I have seen a couple torn, and it is very painful.

Prin
May 30th, 2006, 12:20 PM
My friend's family breeds Ridgies and they were all for removing dewclaws until they realized that one of their girls was actually using them to pivot when wrestling. They are no longer for it.
The back ones? Where Boo's were, they were far too high on his back legs to be of any use and he didn't have any control of them. They weren't like the front ones that they can use for holding things. I guess that's where BMD's bone vs no bone types come in. I doubt Boo's were set in bone- they were so floppy.

erykah1310
May 30th, 2006, 12:26 PM
I guess that's where BMD's bone vs no bone types come in. I doubt Boo's were set in bone- they were so floppy.
Meiks are definately set in bone, they are small and only on the front. Kita doesnt have any, yet puppy does ( front again set in bone)
I guess I just dont have any experience with out of bone dewclaws. Nor have i ever encountered a dog with rear ones.
I guess it is justified in some ways to remove them, however, I prefer to leave them natural, Im all for natural beauty and so on. I guess thats why i am so against amputation of ANYTHING lol
Growing up in a religious family I was taught that "God made you the way you are for a reason"
I guess all the talk about amputations and stuff just goes strongly against my beliefs, however I am not here to push my beliefs on others by all means!!:D

Prin
May 30th, 2006, 12:33 PM
It's like wisdom teeth- some people's develop fine and other people need them all yanked out or else they'd be in pain the rest of their lives.

Usually with dewclaws, only the back ones can be a problem. Most of the dogs I have known with front ones removed were for aesthetic reasons (cosmetic) and really should not have been done).

Boo's front ones stick out more than normal, but they do have bones and when you watch him dream, he moves them around, so obviously they serve some use when he's awake.

Lissa
May 30th, 2006, 12:51 PM
The back ones?

Ya, it was the back one's she was using. I am not sure how big/floppy they are though. I know they live in the country and the dogs go hunting and so far they haven't ripped their dewclaws off (but have numerous sratches all over the rest of their body:rolleyes: - go figure!)

Another friend of mine had her dogs dewclaws removed (that were quite small) because they vet insisted. Her dog was lame for weeks:sad: .

What was Boo's recovery time like?

Prin
May 30th, 2006, 01:03 PM
Practically instant. My vet is good, so the incisions were tiny (less than a cm each). Boo didn't even notice, never licked them. The only trouble was when he ripped a stitch out playing in the snow (I was glad his big toe wasn't still there- it would surely have ripped off that day as there was a layer of ice on top of the snow:eek: ).

Lissa
May 30th, 2006, 01:27 PM
Wow - that is wonderful! Both the recovery time and how small the stiches are...Both of my friend's dogs who had their back dewclaws removed have a scar that is almost 1.5-2" in length:sad:

If I ever have a dog that needs to have them removed, I will have to go to your vet!;)

Prin
May 30th, 2006, 01:45 PM
Ya, I've seen some two inches and I was horrified. It might depend on the bone/no bone but the ones I saw came from a vet with a bad reputation, so I wonder if it's really just crap technique...:o

LM1313
May 30th, 2006, 01:49 PM
Do they remove the front dewclaws, the back ones, or both? How big are the dewclaws on breeds they're removed from? If they're gigantically huge, that would be a factor of course. But, also, I think on breeds that have problems with specific body parts, the breed standard should be changed so that people don't need to cut off bits. Like if you have a dog breed with a tail that's docked because it's easily broken . . . change the breed standard to emcompass dogs with thicker, more durable tails and start breeding towards that. I mean, really, doesn't that make sense?

~LM~

BMDLuver
May 30th, 2006, 02:12 PM
Wow - that is wonderful! Both the recovery time and how small the stiches are...Both of my friend's dogs who had their back dewclaws removed have a scar that is almost 1.5-2" in length:sad:

If I ever have a dog that needs to have them removed, I will have to go to your vet!;)
If the incision is that long then they were set in bone. Very painful and very slow to heal. :sad:

Prin
May 30th, 2006, 02:35 PM
If the incision is that long then they were set in bone. Very painful and very slow to heal. :sad:
That's what I was afraid of. Lucky for Boo, his weren't in the bone.

phoenix
May 30th, 2006, 03:30 PM
Sam has front dew claws, they are huge. Maia's were clipped off after she was born at some point early on. She has little scars on both front paws. Erykah, isn't Kita a boxer x? You should check and see if she has little scars, because I wonder if she had front dewclaws that were removed early... it is the tradition in boxers.

If I had known Maia from birth, I wouldn't have had them removed...not sure on this one at all. I think they would have been in bone if allowed to grow.

Jackie467
May 30th, 2006, 04:17 PM
Some dewclaws need to be removed. Candi has them in the front and they are very dangly. I'm going to have them removed when I have her put under for a teeth cleaning. So far she has ripped the nail out of both of them at least 5 times each while playing. the nail slowly grows back and then it happens again. One time I had to take her to the vet because it wouldn't stop bleeding. the vet cauterized it and completely removed the nail, but it did grow back again. I always keep them trimmed very short but it doesn't really help. Its so sad when it happens because she is in a ton of pain and I have to go to the vet and get pain meds for her so she can walk.

Lissa
May 30th, 2006, 04:59 PM
I am so glad Boo's weren't in the bone because the recovery was very slow for my friend's dog. She couldn't play or go on proper walks for weeks.

But, also, I think on breeds that have problems with specific body parts, the breed standard should be changed so that people don't need to cut off bits. Like if you have a dog breed with a tail that's docked because it's easily broken . . . change the breed standard to emcompass dogs with thicker, more durable tails and start breeding towards that. I mean, really, doesn't that make sense? ~LM~

I think that makes a lot of sense - IMO it would a big improvement for breeds!

Lucky Rescue
May 30th, 2006, 05:24 PM
I don't believe in amputating body parts unless it's for the benefit of the animal.

My dog has her dewclaws (front only as in pit bulls) and they are very firmly attached. I just keep the nails clipped and no problem!

K9Friend
May 30th, 2006, 09:04 PM
Barely any scar on my dog's back legs too. She had hers removed at 5.5 mos. The claws were HUGE!

I think that if you have a very active dog (ex: hunting dog that runs in bushes, etc) - then - yes get the dew claws removed. My dog & I go hiking a lot - I wouldn't take a chance - :D

erykah1310
May 30th, 2006, 11:22 PM
Yes Kita does have her dewclaws removed, and her tail is docked too:sad: Poor gurl!
Im glad her ears are down, Im telling you some breeds like dobies and boxers just get the brunt of all the amputations and "cosmetically pleasing" procedures!!!