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pro plan select

momma cow
May 20th, 2006, 05:36 AM
Hi I saw Pro Plans new food has any body tryed it yet was using welliness for my dog but lately when she goes to poo its too soft so was thinking of switching her to something else this is whats in side pro plans new one


Turkey, brewers rice, pearled barley, chicken meal (natural source of glucosamine), corn gluten meal, oat meal, animal fat preserved with mixed-tocopherols (form of Vitamin E), dried egg product, fish meal (natural source of glucosamine), pea fiber, dried beet pulp, fish oil, animal digest, calcium phosphate, potassium chloride, salt, L-Lysine monohydrochloride, calcium carbonate, dried tomatoes, blueberry pomace, dried sweet potatoes, Vitamin E supplement, zinc proteinate, manganese proteinate, choline chloride, ferrous sulfate, L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (source of Vitamin C), niacin, copper proteinate, Vitamin A supplement, calcium pantothenate, thiamine mononitrate, riboflavin supplement, Vitamin B-12 supplement, pyridoxine hydrochloride, garlic oil, folic acid, Vitamin D-3 supplement, calcium iodate, biotin, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of Vitamin K activity), sodium selenite.
A-4402

thanks momma cow

jesse's mommy
May 20th, 2006, 06:47 AM
I'm not the food guru here, Prin is and I'm sure you will get a ton of advice when she pops on here. I do know that corn is the fourth ingredient and that's probably not good. Corn isn't a good ingredient in food especially if it's one of the first few listed.

phoenix
May 20th, 2006, 07:35 AM
Turkey, brewers rice, pearled barley, chicken meal (natural source of glucosamine), corn gluten meal, oat meal, animal fat preserved with mixed-tocopherols (form of Vitamin E), dried egg product, fish meal (natural source of glucosamine), pea fiber, dried beet pulp, fish oil, animal digest, calcium phosphate, potassium chloride, salt, L-Lysine monohydrochloride, calcium carbonate, dried tomatoes, blueberry pomace, dried sweet potatoes, Vitamin E supplement, zinc proteinate, manganese proteinate, choline chloride, ferrous sulfate, L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (source of Vitamin C), niacin, copper proteinate, Vitamin A supplement, calcium pantothenate, thiamine mononitrate, riboflavin supplement, Vitamin B-12 supplement, pyridoxine hydrochloride, garlic oil, folic acid, Vitamin D-3 supplement, calcium iodate, biotin, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of Vitamin K activity), sodium selenite.

because dog food ingredients are listed in order of weight, when you see a meat listed like "turkey" know that they are counting the water weight, and then dehydrating it for the kibble. So this means that turkey ends up far down the list. The real first ingredient in this food is rice. Also there is a lot of controversy around menadione sodium bisulfite. Don't like to see animal digest in any food... could be the remains of ANY animal (some foods have been found to have trace amounts of drugs used to euthanize pets...:eek: )

It doesn't compare to the wellness, but for a purina food it isn't as bad as I thought it might be. But, I wouldn't feed it.

mafiaprincess
May 20th, 2006, 11:51 AM
Hoe long has your dog been on wellness? Some times a food change takes months before you truely see the result. Think we are on 2 months of solid gold, and only now are seeing 'nice poop'.

I wouldn't feed my dog anything with animal digest in it. And it has more filler than meat. I agree that it's better than what Purina usually makes, but I wouldn't go from an awesome food to a mediocre one.

rainbow
May 20th, 2006, 10:55 PM
There are alot better foods available than this one. The first ingredient being "turkey" is bumped because of the water content included. "Animal fat" is gross....you need a food that "specifies" the "kind of fat". Brewers rice is gross. Animal digest is even worse. Fish meal is almost guaranteed to be preserved with "ethoxyquin". Menadione sodium bisulfite is banned for human consumption, so therefore, IMO is not good enough for my pets.

You would be better off to stay with Wellness. Perhaps you haven't given it long enough but I have heard that since they changed manufacuturers that alot of dogs are having problems.

If you want to change there are a lot better foods available than this new Pro Plan one. I feed my dogs Timberwolf Organics and we love it at our house. Solid Gold is another good food and recommended by alot of people on this board. Prin is our "food guru" and will give you her advice when she logs on.

For other options, please peruse this dog food thread. :pawprint:

Prin
May 21st, 2006, 12:06 AM
Rainbow, I think you'll be taking my place soon... Seems like there are more people who know about food here these days.:thumbs up

Hmm... The main meat is Chicken Meal and look how far down that is. It's behind two grains, one of which is a by-product of human processing...

"Fish Meal", "Animal Digest", "Animal Fat" are all non-specific meats. What kind of fish? Why don't they say? What kind of animal? Some foods with "animal" anything were found to have traces of the drug used to euthanize cats and dogs in them, meaning the "animal" in the food might have been a dog or cat. :eek:

Animal digest is pieces of animal partially digested with enzymes (i.e. prechewed, predigested food :yuck: ).

If the food was good, why are there so many digestive aids in there? (like beet pulp and animal digest)

And the fiber! It's so loaded with both fast and slow fibers- the fast to raise the carb content and protein content of the food (even though the dog doesn't actually digest most of it) and the slow to slow the food down and give you a nice hard stool (by causing temporary constipation).

Look, I put all the different fiber sources in bold. That's a lot of fiber!
Turkey, brewers rice, pearled barley, chicken meal (natural source of glucosamine), corn gluten meal, oat meal, animal fat preserved with mixed-tocopherols (form of Vitamin E), dried egg product, fish meal (natural source of glucosamine), pea fiber, dried beet pulp, fish oil, animal digest

Plus the menadione mentioned above- we prefer not to have it in there. It's synthetic Vitamin K, and with cheap real sources out there, there's no reason for a "not-for-human consumption" substitute.

So, no it's not the best. Holistic is much better, but if you're on a tight budget, try Costco's Kirkland brand lamb and rice. At least there aren't any "animals" in there.;)

momma cow
May 21st, 2006, 08:45 AM
Ok you guys dont like the new pro plan guess its back to wellness but my golden stool is so soft should i try the kirkland food I go to costco but wasnt sure if the food was any good

thanks momma cow

PetFriendly
May 21st, 2006, 11:13 AM
You know, there are two dogs in our obedience class who's systems can't handle the wellness either. My little dog can't handle anything with corn or too much wheat. My boyfriends dog can't really handle anything made with beef. It all depends on the dog.
I have my cat on holistic foods and after 3 months, her system isn't processing it properly and the vet has suggested we try the fish version instead of the chicken she is on now.
So it all depends on the dog, look at it this way, at least you've illiminated another food off the list of possibles.

mafiaprincess
May 21st, 2006, 12:26 PM
How long has your dog been on the wellness for?

OntarioGreys
May 21st, 2006, 01:49 PM
Have you tried another Wellness formula ? sometimes just changing to a different formulation can make a world of difference.

I noticed the foods your thinking about are lower priced, if cost is a factor consider Canidae All Life Stages , most foods are sold in 30lb bags where Canidae is 40lbs , so almost 25% more food per bag than most other brands. It contains 3 specified meat meals in the first 5 ingredients alone which makes it truly meat based compared to many of the so called premium kibbles which makes the daily feeding rations lower cupwise than say Kirkland or Proplan, the daily feeding cost will be a few cents more than Kirkland but at a much higher quality. For the level of quality it is one of the the lowest costing foods when it come to daily feeding cost. Truly much more cost effective than Nutro, Science diet, Proplan and many others that are heavy on the grains and therefore much cheaper to produce, but people think that because the bag costs less they are saving money, but in reality based on daily feeding cost they are paying more because the food contains mostly fillers so the dog needs to eat more daily to meet its nutritional needs so instead of eating 2 1/2 cups of Canidae they may need to eat say 4 cups of Nutro or Proplan or 5 to 6 cups of Science Diet or Kirkland. So if Canidae is $60 a bag and Nutro is $45 you may need to buy 1 1/2 bags of Nutro to feed for the same time frame that 1 bag of Canidae would last, which would mean feeding Nutro costs about $22 more for a food that is mostly grains

*(the prices I gave may not be quite accurate since I have not looked at the prices recently, but if close both Canidae and Nutro would cost the same per pound at a $1.50 per lb, so the feeding guidelines would give you an idea of just how much saving you would get)


Canidae ingredients
Chicken Meal, Turkey Meal, Brown Rice, White Rice, Lamb Meal, Chicken Fat (preserved with Mixed Tocopherols), Herring Meal, Flax Seed, Sun Cured Alfalfa Meal, Sunflower Oil, Chicken, Lecithin, Monocalcium Phosphate, Potassium Chloride, Choline Chloride, Linoleic Acid, Rosemary Extract, Sage Extract, Dried Enterococcus Faecium, Dried Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Aspergillus Oryzae Fermentation Extract, Dried Bacillus Subtilis Fermentation Extract, Inulin (from Chicory root), Saccharomyces Cerevisiae Fermentation Solubles, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Mixed Tocopherols (source of Vitamin E), Zinc Amino Acid Chelate, Manganese Amino Acid Chelate, Iron Amino Acid Chelate, Copper Amino Acid Chelate, Cobalt Amino Acid Chelate, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Ascorbic Acid (source of Vitamin C), Niacin, Thiamine Mononitrate (Vitamin B1), Riboflavin (source of B2), Beta Carotene, Calcium Pantothenate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B6), Calcium Iodate, Folic Acid, D-Biotin, Sodium Selenite, Papaya, Vitamin B12 Supplement.

Prin
May 21st, 2006, 01:57 PM
Try feeding less of the wellness first. Cut back 1/8 of a cup one day and see what happens. Then another 1/8 if the first one had no change at all. If the stool is still too soft when you have cut back a total of 1/2 a cup, then you'll have to switch.

rainbow
May 21st, 2006, 02:13 PM
Rainbow, I think you'll be taking my place soon...

LOL....highly doubt that Prin!!! I may know a little about the ingredients but cannot put my thoughts into words nearly as well as you.:D

Seems like there are more people who know about food here these days.

IMO, that's because we've read all your posts.:thumbs up

rainbow
May 21st, 2006, 02:19 PM
Prin, what do you think of Canidae compared to Timberwolf?

I'm thinking of switching because of the high cost feeding my boys. Our fridge and lawnmower just went kaput and we had to replace both yesterday. Hubby has been laid off for the last eight months and things are getting a little tight.

Prin
May 21st, 2006, 03:04 PM
Which canidae and which timberwolf?

I think the "All life stages" Canidae formula is ok. It has 3 meat sources (OG posted the ingredients already), but I'd consider giving an omega 3 supplement with it (like salmon oil). The ratio of Omega 3 to 6 just seems a bit low (if I've done the math right, it's 1:6 and ideally you want it at least 1:5)... You don't want to loose the coat quality or the cardiovascular benefit.:)

LL1
May 21st, 2006, 03:13 PM
Have you thought of something other than Wellness?California Natural or Innova?

rainbow
May 21st, 2006, 03:35 PM
Which canidae and which timberwolf?

I think the "All life stages" Canidae formula is ok. It has 3 meat sources (OG posted the ingredients already), but I'd consider giving an omega 3 supplement with it (like salmon oil). The ratio of Omega 3 to 6 just seems a bit low (if I've done the math right, it's 1:6 and ideally you want it at least 1:5)... You don't want to loose the coat quality or the cardiovascular benefit.:)

Thanks Prin. I'm rotating between the wilderness elk and dakota bison formulas right now. TO doesn't have as many meat sources as Canidae and in fact the first ingredient for the wilderness elk is fresh elk not elk meal and the dakota bison is fresh bison not bison meal. I'm thinking of switching to the all life stages Canidae. Hate to do it but $$$$ makes a difference right now.:sad:

phoenix
May 21st, 2006, 04:22 PM
Rainbow, Canidae all life stages is what I feed and it's a very cost effective choice without compromising quality.
No offense to Prin, but I didn't learn about food from her posts (mind you I agree with all of them for the most part!)... It's good that we learned what we know in different places and that we are in agreement, IMO it makes me trust our information more!
So Canidae at 40 lbs is 57$ here, and we have a deal where the 10th bag is free... works out to about 52$/40 lb in the long run. For 2 big dogs, it is a great deal and a 40 lb bag lasts me 4 weeks (I have 120 lbs of dog... one at 80 and one at 40!).
The only downside to Canidae I'd say is the many meat sources IF allergies are a possibility (because it would be hard to isolate the source of the allergy). But otherwise, it's excellent. I haven't felt the need to supplement O-3's... but Prin is right about the ratio.
If money and availability were not an issue, I'd probably be feeding Timberwolf ...

PetFriendly
May 21st, 2006, 04:46 PM
Try feeding less of the wellness first. Cut back 1/8 of a cup one day and see what happens. Then another 1/8 if the first one had no change at all. If the stool is still too soft when you have cut back a total of 1/2 a cup, then you'll have to switch.

Why would cutting the food back help?
I'm having a similar issue with my cat, vet thinks either the food is too rich, she's allergic to an ingredient or allergic to what they feed the ckickens that are used to make it, I'm feeding Performatrin Ultra, Chicken and Rice.

technodoll
May 21st, 2006, 05:18 PM
quite often, feeding a dog or cat more food than they need results in soft stools (animal uses what it needs & eliminates the rest without the GI tract correctly absorbing the water from the waste). overfeeding can often be a cause of diarrhea, too.

PetFriendly
May 21st, 2006, 07:59 PM
Ok so that would work then with the theory the vet has that the food just might be too rich. (lets put it this way, she spent the first 6 years of her life eating Purina Cat Chow and is now eating holistic cat food...)

Sorry for highjacking, I'll go read up so more on this and will open a new thread once I figure this out :) , or get hopelessly lost :confused:

Prin
May 22nd, 2006, 12:15 AM
quite often, feeding a dog or cat more food than they need results in soft stools (animal uses what it needs & eliminates the rest without the GI tract correctly absorbing the water from the waste). overfeeding can often be a cause of diarrhea, too.
Exactly. Without the stool hardeners found in cheaper foods, the dog has to do all the work alone, and if it's more food than s/he needs, it won't get digested in time.

Keep in mind that you should be feeding significantly less of a holistic food than of a food made by one of the huge companies that we all have heard of...


The Timberwolf Ocean Blue looks good for allergies (simple, no usual grains), but with their formulas it seems like you really have to pick out the right one. Some are really meaty and others are incredibly grainy... I guess just like with any brand, you can't just trust a name without going further into it.

rainbow
May 29th, 2006, 06:09 PM
Prin, what do you think of Canidae compared to Timberwolf?

I'm thinking of switching because of the high cost feeding my boys. Our fridge and lawnmower just went kaput and we had to replace both yesterday. Hubby has been laid off for the last eight months and things are getting a little tight.

Well, I've checked at the only two places in town that sell dog food and neither of them can get Canidae.:sad: So far, I've managed to stay with Timberwolf and hope hubby gets back to work soon so I don't have to find something cheaper. :fingerscr

Prin
May 29th, 2006, 09:30 PM
Well, if you give us a list of what they do sell, maybe we can figure out which is the best for cost vs quality?:o

rainbow
May 30th, 2006, 07:18 PM
LOL... I don't have a heck of alot of choice where I live.

The local groomers where I buy my Timberwolf also sells Solid Gold which is the same price, Wellness which is the same price, Chicken Soup which I don't want and Fromm which they have on sale as they're phasing it out.

The pet store that I used to go to went belly up and the owner conned the local Home Hardware store into hiring her and selling Nutro as that was her top seller for reasons I don't think I have to disclose as we all know about their tactics.

The only other pet store sells Eagle Pack only and I don't like the owners so I don't go there.

One vet sells Medi-Cal only.

The other vet sells Medi-Cal, California Natural, Innova and EVO.

Prin
May 30th, 2006, 10:55 PM
Is California Natural cheaper?

rainbow
May 31st, 2006, 01:50 PM
It's a little bit cheaper. I'm going to try and stay with Timberwolf. Hubby and I will just eat more KD....good thing he likes it. :D Things are slowly starting to pick up for work so hopefully he'll find something soon. :fingerscr

Prin
May 31st, 2006, 02:00 PM
lol KD... Good thing the doggy will be healthy.:D