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chihuahua

stra8up3
December 27th, 2003, 10:35 PM
please could someonbe tell me what the gestation period is for a chihuahua?
thank you,
[email]stra8up3@aol.com:confused:

Carina
December 28th, 2003, 06:26 AM
Do you have a pregnant chihuahua?

If you even have to ASK this question you have no business breeding anything. :mad: If she's not very far along take her to the vet, have her aborted and spayed. And don't allow any other animal in your care to breed, ever.

I've just about had it with idiots who ignorantly dump more puppies into an overburdened population.

Oops, was I rude again?

Lucky Rescue
December 28th, 2003, 11:00 AM
Hehe..saved me some typing, Carina.;)

stra8tup, did you breed this dog deliberately? If so, and if you don't even know the gestation period of dogs, you are in trouble.

Chis - like other horribly extreme dogs - are not easy to breed, and you'll be lucky not to end up broke, and with only one puppy (or none) to show for it.

wAggie
December 28th, 2003, 06:19 PM
Oh my!

stra8up3
December 28th, 2003, 07:00 PM
And the breeding was deliberate. She looks to me as if she is very close to having them. I have 9 dogs, 1 horse (all but 1 are rescued). All but the chihuahua are of a large breed. At one time, I had temperarly boarded and cared for 20 chihuahuas and pomerainens that were "supposed to be fixed" for a rescue opperation. Then puppies started to appear. :eek: I know the gestation period for the larger breed is about 9 weeks. I am not sure if the breed of dog makes a difference or not.
I could not agree more, with the comment of over population and under cared for animals in our society. :mad: as a result, I have been actively involved with many animals in need for some years now. :D
Any support about our beloved "Wing Ding" (chihuahua)would be deeply appreciated. Thank you

Lucky Rescue
December 28th, 2003, 07:50 PM
Chihuahuas are riddled with genetic health problems that make breeding them mostly disappointing and heartbreaking, but I'm sure you already know that.

You say YOU did this breeding deliberately? May I ask why? Is your Chi an outstanding example of the breed? Is she titled to a championship and health tested against all (many) defects this breed is prone to? Do you have a pic of her? My sister in law recently adopted a Chi and he is just adorable. Here he is:)
http://pic4.picturetrail.com/VOL51/1047157/2137064/41257225.jpg

Sorry to seem nosey ;) but I'm always curious about why people breed dogs, especially someone like you, who obviously knows of the serious problem of overpopulation of pets.

wAggie
December 28th, 2003, 09:29 PM
ya... it's strange to read you rescue AND breed dogs?

:confused:

Carina
December 28th, 2003, 09:54 PM
Interestingly enough, a friend's mother just got a Chi pup from a pet store, grrrr....

Anyhow I now know that luxating patellas, hypoglycemia, mitral valve disease, collapsing tracheas, cleft palates, hemophilia, and hydrocephaly are all genetically transmitted problems Chis can be prone to - although they don't have as many problems as some other toys it's not a great idea to unselectively breed and spread such problems to the gene pool.

I just googled "Chihuahua gestation" and without even opening a link I found the answer to your gestation question. :p
There is a whole wealth of information on Chihuahua pregnancy, whelping, puppy care, etc.
Let your fingers do the walking...

You could always just call your vet and ask too.

LavenderRott
December 29th, 2003, 12:02 AM
Chi's are a hot topic in my house this weekend. Suffice it to say, relations with my mother are a bit tense right now.

I would certainly hope that since you have bred your bitch already, she has been checked for any genetic problems as was the male she was bred to.

I know several breeders that are very supportive of rescue workers and groups. I must admit, I don't know many people who devote time and energy into rescue and breed. The breeders I know are also very responsible and consider the puppies and puppy buyers their responsibility for the life of the dog.

I don't know anyone ethical who breeds a dog of any type without at least the minimum knowledge. I would think that length of gestation would be a bare minimum. Since you didn't check into that little tidbit, then we should probably think it is too much to ask that you are even aware that there are genetic problems within the breed that should have been tested for.

Don't worry. I am sure someone out there will rescue these pups one day.

stra8up3
December 29th, 2003, 02:22 AM
Let me start out first with thanking all of you for all the knowledge you have giving me. I do apperciate it. . Now I will try to reply in order.
I did not know, nor have I ever heard anything about Chihuahua's having all or any of these problems. Had I known, I probally would have reconsidered breeding her. :eek:. When she was brought to me, she had been found on a busy highway, fourth of July, 2 years ago and with 2 large knots on her forehead. So, she may not be pure breed. Probally not since she is larger then most Chihuahuas. She is about 10 or 11 inches in height.
As for the breeding, it was "selective". My next door neighbor has a male Chihuahua they were more then willing to let him come over. As a matter of fact, I could not keep him away. He is the exact same color and he is a little bit smaller then the female.
Computers are also a new thing for me curious if the smaller breed dogs have the same gestation period as the larger breed. And after looking through a couple of books I have, I thought I could find the answer through the computer. In doing so I ended up here (which I am not really sure I am) lol. Due to the fact that my 21 year old daughter ran the phone bill up to over a thousand dollors the first month she moved back home. I can not call my vet (he is long distance). Since I still have not got an answer to my question, :confused: I will take your advise and see if I can't "google" myself as you did, and try to find the answer.
As to the question, "Why had I bred her deliberatly" As I had said before, I did not know there were such problems. When I was caring for the Chihuahuas, I had learned how much people were willing to pay for them. Even without papers. Even though she may not be purebred. Also they don't normally have more then 1 or 2 per liter. I can't count how many people who I have come across that want pupppies. In California they are in very high demand. People are willing to give them a good home and are willing to pay hundreds of dollors for one. Including the neighbor next door (though they won't be getting one from me). I had also thought it would be a nice experiance for my husband and I.
Ok, I do not "bred dogs". Years ago, I had bought at 8 weeks old 1 male then later 1 female, champion bred, purebred, papered dobermans. which I got 2 litters from and sold to good homes. I kept one (that was the one dog I have that was not rescued). The parents died years ago at age 9 of natural causes. The puppy I had kept is now 11 years old.
I do not get all these dogs because I wanted them. I just could not let them die or let them remain in the situation they were in. I bought one from a rescue organization, for a gaurd dog. They are all muts, but over the years I have come to love them and they are my family. Years ago, when I moved here I found the area very high in animal neglect, abuse, ect. More mis-use and abandonment. This is how I am invovled with the resue of animals and such. Even my purebred, 100% Egyptian blood, papered, Arabian mare was aquired. Through a non-profit rescue organization. In Caifornia there seems to be more of a problam with people being responsiable and or caring for an animal as a living thing and being dedicated to it for any long term ownership. Then there is a problem of over population. You see the organizations that I am familar with spay/nueter all the animals immediatly, and before they are placed in a new home. My animals are all fixed except for the doberman. Even the males and at my expense. Prople just don't seem to do that around here. The picture is quite a cute little dog. I noticed though he has not been fixed. I hope that he is watch ever so closely so that he won't (as males do) get out and get hit by a car. It happens so easily for the little ones. Sorry I don't have a picture of mine for you. Though just last night, a camera for computers was given to me. I just need to learn how to use it. :p
Thanks again for all your help and information.

LavenderRott
December 29th, 2003, 03:34 AM
If she lives through delivery, please have her spayed. There are 85,620 dogs available through rescue groups and state run shelters listed on Petfinders.com. Of those, 1305 are chihuahuas. This number does not include shelters and organizations that do not use this method to advertise the animals they have for adoption or the classified section of this particular website.

Many years ago, my mom bred pomeranians. We never made any money at it. Mom's first bitch died in labor, one puppy died the next day and we kept two of them. The pup we did sell certainly didn't sell for enough money to pay the vet bill. Mom bred two bitches at once one time. Every single pup from both litters died.

I have a lovely rottweiler that I got from animal control. She has a marvelous temperment and I have been asked many times for a puppy. I have a 5 year old son who would love to see the miracle of birth and have several young puppies to play with. Chase does not meet the breed standard and has no papers so she was spayed.

The only ethical purpose to breed a dog is to improve the breed. And do the homework first. Know everything there is to know about the breed you want to breed.

Sorry to be rude, but I am a bit disgusted. You say that where you live people seem to be more irresponsible, abuse and neglect are common and there is an overpopulation of dogs. Then you state how much money people are willing to pay for chihuahuas. Those same people will abuse and neglect however many puppies you have to sell. And someone else will have to step in and take care of the problem.

Carina
December 29th, 2003, 06:20 AM
Well, what Sandi said.

Here's the website for the Chihuahua Club of America, lots of info:
http://www.chihuahuaclubofamerica.com/
Gestation is 9 weeks for all dogs, regardless of size.

Selectively breeding means the bloodlines of both dogs are known, back many generations - not that the two dogs are considered "cute" or "purebred" or even that you know which dog is the sire. Selective breeding means a vet has performed all necessary health tests, including in some cases DNA testing. I don't know what these tests are for Chihuahuas. For Rottweilers it's hips, elbows, eyes, SAS...maybe something else, I'm not sure. (I've never bred anything.) These tests and all the other costs that go along withbringing a good dog to potential ensure that selling litters of puppies are anything but a $$ making endeavor for someone who is just trying to better the breed.

It is generally accepted that the only ethical reason to breed a dog is to improve the breed - not for money, not because you know people who want one, not for any other reason. In that case, both parents are titled in conformation & also in working, if that is part of their heritage.

There are virtually no health risks for an intact male. If I ever get another Rottweiler puppy from working lines (instead of rescuing) I will probably not neuter him, at least until he's quite old. Because in some dogs, particularly if you want to work them, some drives are diminished by early neutering. I'm not worried one bit that I'll inadvertently let a dog escape to chase down a bitch in heat.

Female dogs on the other hand have a high risk of getting mammary cancer if left intact, and every heat increases that risk a bit. Not to mention the risks associated with pregnancy and whelping.

Since what's done is done and Wing Ding is hopefully going to have an uneventful birth very soon, I suggest we support stra8up3 in making sure mom & pups are fine. I'd also strongly suggest you educate yourself on what sort of things can go wrong with a birth, in case you need to intervene, since your vet isn't really available. If there's a breech birth, or the umbilical cord is around a pup's neck, or the dam doesn't want anything to do with the puppies...there's many ways they could fail to survive and you could help. Also educate yourself about care for the mom & babies while they're growing. I imagine if you type in "dog whelping care" or some such, you'll find plenty of info. There are many, many things that can go wrong, so the more knowlege you have, the better.

Then you can spay Wing Ding. :) Better yet, when you sell the puppies, require that the new owners do the same. Some vets will do pediatric spay/neuter, if you want you can get that done before the puppies leave your home. Many shelters are now doing this.

Do use your new camera to post a photo! And keep us updated on the progress. :)
Oh - here is the link for Google; it's one of the best search engines out there:
http://www.google.com/

Lucky Rescue
December 29th, 2003, 11:13 AM
Thank you for answering my question so honestly and explaining that you are an unethical backyard breeder of the VERY worst kind - breeding an unpapered rescue dog (who may even be a mix) merely to make money.

Shame on you. You really should know better. Do you know there are over 1300 abandoned Chis listed on Petfinder alone??

And by the way, don't count on profiting from this poor dog. Chis are notoriously hard to breed successfully,which you would have known if you bothered to find out, instead of concentrating on dollar signs dancing in your head.

The pic I posted of the Chi was taken right after he came into rescue - see, even if people will pay lots of money for these dogs, that does NOT stop them from abandoning them. He of course is now neutered, as no responsible person would breed an unpapered rescue dog of unknown history.

Please don't bother answering me and trying to justify exploiting dogs for profit. I've heard enough from you.

Luba
December 29th, 2003, 01:19 PM
I completely agree with LR on this!!

SHAME on you !! You SHOULD know better and the fact that you don't makes it all the more difficult for true RESCUE facilities.

Shaking my head!!

I normally have a good thing or two to say even about some of the worst posts but this one really ticks me off.

You're doing more harm then good!! Stick to your own dog, get her spayed IF she survives the delivery and get the pups done as an adoption fee before you let them go!!

Atleast TRY to make the BEST of this situation that you have created.

I'm wondering why you let your dog around so many strange dogs that could have infected her with God knows what type of illness let alone getting her pregnant.



http://www.ccrt.net/profile/index.html

http://www.chihuahuarescue.ca/profiles.html

http://www.chihuahuarescue.com/index2.htm

http://www.chihuahua-land.com/1puppies.htm


I assume you feel that YOUR new puppies arriving deserve homes and the ones already in shelter and foster care can wait right!!

stra8up3
December 29th, 2003, 02:52 PM
Topic Review (Newest First)


Stra8up3 As I said before, I do not “bred dogs.” and I find it a little insulting to be viewed as some sort of contributor to the neglect and abuse of animals. I am far from any thing like that. Alls that I can say is that you don’t know me at all. Since I see people have found the time to “help” me, I thought that I would do the same in return by writing and enlighten some of what my situation is. Well, that did not seem to matter. By the responses, I have to wonder if anyone has even really read what I wrote? They certainly did not understand what I said. My question has yet to be answered. Instead, I have read a lot of sightless criticism, accused of horrible things, assuming I am going to be the cause of harm and home less dogs. I don’t mean to be nosey, but may I ask you, what your age is? I mean I have to ask my self, what could be the reason for such ignorance? Why so much effort put into just being plain mean? over having a pregnant dog. Don’t get me wrong. I do not mean to sound as if to be making light of the wide spread, massive amount of senseless suffering of animals. I am on your side. But at the same time, the world is not so bad that the puppy or puppies (if there is 2), won’t have a good home. I can’t say that I share the same view as this statement “the only ethical purpose to breed a dog is to improve the breed” that doesn't even deserve a response. And, is it not true, that by the fact that I have gone through this, and having asked about the dog, isn’t that in itself, doing exactly what I have been accused of not doing? And would it not qualify equal to that of a “tid bit?” And yet, my knowledge of this breed's gestation period is still at the same "bare minimum" that it was the day that I asked. Though I am getting the impression that it must be the same as any other dog. No need to apologize for “being rude” I realize that it’s just a lack of understanding. Yes, I live in a neighborhood where, the standards for animals is much lower then mine. As you would had read in what I had wrote earlier about my neighbor (as nice as they are to people) they would not be getting any animals from me. They have a different view, value towards animals then I have. I can't say theirs is wrong, I can only say that it's not right for me. Let me repeat myself, and make it clear, that the places and the cases I have been involved in concerning animals in need, if there were a person to exist, that could be held accountable for the animal and then if for some reason the same person asked to buy an animal from me and if there was a time where I found my self in the situation of having one to sell, you may feel rest assured in that, such person would not be a candidate to own any animal under my authority. Also, I advertise out of the recycler and I have noticed there are always people wanting a little dog. I have learned a long time ago that people tend to take care for things that they pay a lot of money for. So with that and my good judgment of such, you may put your mind at easy by the fact that I will not be the cause of any homeless creatures. You know, I used to get so mad at all the people who would come to me when ever they had an animal that needed a vet I would rant at them telling them I am not a vet and if they can’t go to a vet they had no business owning the animal. You see, I did this until, one day I learned that in by doing such, would cause them not to bother me any more and as a result, not do anything for the animal at all when needed. Justify they haven’t the ability to. No matter what anyone could do, the world is always going to have people that are going to have animals and not care for them to our standards. And even though it may not be (in our opinion) right. I mean lets look at it logically, shall we? Realistically,people are going to be as they are and not what we want them to be or even should be. The best that you can hope for is to able to establish a relationship with a positive effect. If you really want to reach them.
People just do not do well for people who use negitive communication. Since I really do want to help the animals even more then the importance that everyone learns to share my view, I have learned that a positive approach when dealing with people, has a far more effect then by putting someone down and
making them feel inadequit. Instead I try to work and with them, and with respect, being careful never to become rude
or inconsiderate. Education not humiliation. With this I am able to help animals that would otherwise not have gotten it. This is exactly what I am doing now and is why I am taking the time to respond to you in hopes that I can make the differance with the kind of “help” you may be giving the next poor soul. I mean if this is truely your intention, to help any animal or anyone or anything you might wanna climb down off that ever so high horse yours and take a good honest look at yourself,what you read, and say and how you make others feel when your giving them a dose of your help, Because if I did not know better, I would have been Offended and not so kind. The fact of the matter is you have done nothing any good except tell me of all the dogs not having homes, over population. As if I am not well aware. I would think if this was a real concern to you, you would not be wasting so much time talking a lot of hula on the computer trying to look impressive for each other and instead you would be doing something about it. as I do like for instance the hard work. Well anyways best of luck with what ever it is that you do, and I hope that you take to heart, what I have said so that you may be of better use to the people you attempt to help in the future. And thanks again for your time

stra8up3
December 29th, 2003, 03:09 PM
again you have the facts wrong this was not for money nor does my dog have access to others

Luba
December 29th, 2003, 03:28 PM
You are constantly contradicting yourself, are you aware of that.

There was absolutely no NEED for you to get your dog pregnant NONE!!!

Obviously you had this as an intention because you did not get her spayed, nor did you encourage your neighbour to have their dog neutered.

We read what you wrote, so we are understanding only what you portray to us.

What you are portraying is an irresponsible pet owner who is adding to the population of dogs. There are hundreds if not thousands of puppies and dogs contenent wide that need homes.

This was not a necessity was it? We just cannot comprehend why you did it, it makes no sense.

Most of us are animal activists to some extent, we shelter, foster, raise, care for and volunteer and work at shelters or the like. WE see the effects of what you are doing.

You may think you may find a good home for the pups, but you have no way of knowing 3/4 years down the road if they decide they don't want the dog anymore because (here are the common excuses)

#1 - marital / relationship break up
#2 - moving somewhere where they cant' take a pet
#3 - having children, no more time for dog
#4 - have children, scared dog will bite them
#5 - our lives are hectic now and we no longer have time
#6 - the dog is becoming too expensive, we can't keep it
#7 - job placement causing me to move and relocate out of country
#8 - got a new pet and they dont' get along
#9 - My new boyfriend/husband/wife/girlfriend is allergic
#10 - The dog is messing in the house, annoying the neighbours or too needy.


So say as much as you like about finding good homes, I see it ALL the time people surrendering their pets they have had for YEARS and YEARS!! For foolish insignificant things.



At one time, I had temperarly boarded and cared for 20 chihuahuas and pomerainens that were "supposed to be fixed" for a rescue opperation. Then puppies started to appear.

You didn't think of CHECKING and without knowing you allowed them to be mixed together?

I hope YOU are NOT educating people because you still need to be educated yourself. We have no high horses just high standards of what people should be doing that they are not.

Think of all the chi' pups that are already here on this earth needing homes NEEDING is key! You created a situation that was not necessary!


Then you go on to say you are not a breeder? BUT you bred your dog? You want to help and educate but you add to the problem?

Isn't this like the tobacco companies donating money to the Heart and Stroke and Lung Associations. Why can't u see that?

Carina
December 29th, 2003, 03:31 PM
"As I said before, I do not “bred dogs.” and I find it a little insulting to be viewed as some sort of contributor to the neglect and abuse of animals."
Well of course you are. You unselectively bred a dog. Res ipsa. This is Latin for "enough said."

"By the responses, I have to wonder if anyone has even really read what I wrote? They certainly did not understand what I said. My question has yet to be answered."
I answered it. Plus gave you a bunch of other info. Do you not read the responses?? :rolleyes:

"I don’t mean to be nosey, but may I ask you, what your age is?"
I will be 46 on Feb 11 2004.

"the only ethical purpose to breed a dog is to improve the breed” that doesn't even deserve a response. And, is it not true, that by the fact that I have gone through this, and having asked about the dog, isn’t that in itself, doing exactly what I have been accused of not doing?"
Not even close. Did you read ANY of what I posted? I took some time to research that for you, you know.

"I have learned that a positive approach when dealing with people.....Education not humiliation."
I was quite helpful. YOU have the choice th be educated, or to be humiliated. Nobody makes that choice for you.

"The fact of the matter is you have done nothing any good except tell me of all the dogs not having homes, over population. As if I am not well aware. I would think if this was a real concern to you, you would not be wasting so much time talking a lot of hula on the computer trying to look impressive for each other and instead you would be doing something about it."
I have never allowed any animal in my care to breed, that's a good start. In addition to "talking hula" on the computer, I have trapped, neutered & released feral cats, fostered dogs for a rescue agency, and taken in & treated/rehomed many many strays on my own dime. Other board regulars have done the same. I've also done years of active volunteering for human causes. And if you are aware of pet overpopulation - again, what on earth are you thinking by contributing directly to this!? I can't figure that one out.

You may not be doing it for money (what, then?) And your dog clearly does have access to others, unless you have figured out a way to get your female pregnant by remote control or something.

LavenderRott
December 29th, 2003, 04:06 PM
As I had said before, I did not know there were such problems. When I was caring for the Chihuahuas, I had learned how much people were willing to pay for them. Even without papers. Even though she may not be purebred. Also they don't normally have more then 1 or 2

As this is a quote from your own post, what would you like us to think?

The fact of the matter is this, with no education about the breed whatsoever, you bred your "maybe purebred" bitch to the persistant male next door. Because you knew that people would pay good money for them.

As for my age, I will be 40 shortly. That is irrelevant however. My 18 year old daughter knows more about breeding then you do. I also have a college education. What's your point?

According to every responsible breeder that I know, the only ethical purpose to breed a dog is to produce something better. Each breed has a standard, based on sometimes centuries of breeding and working. Go to any national breed club website and you will find a code of ethics. I am not sure what your ethics are since you are breeding a rescue dog for profit. No honest, moral person would breed a dog that has been rescued. Lord only knows it's background.

I am fairly certain that most people here have not said what they would like to say. You can get kicked off of some forums for that.

The gestation period is the same for your chi as any other breed.

Your right, I don't know you. Any judgements I have made are based on what you have written. You don't know me either, but I can tell you this about me, I have very little stomach for backyard breeders, or people who abuse and neglect their dogs.

Enough said.

Lucky Rescue
December 29th, 2003, 04:10 PM
No need to apologize for “being rude” I realize that it’s just a lack of understanding.

Don't worry, I didn't plan to apologize for telling you some facts. You know nothing about dogs, and are deliberately breeding an unpapered, untitled mutt - and don't even know what the gestation period is. All these Chis you had that starting breeding - can't you even tell if a male dog is neutered or not??? So I must ask - who is ignorant here?

And yes, I read what you said. The condensed version is "Wow, I see that people are paying lots of money for Chihuahuas, so I have a mongrel here that kind of looks like one and decided to make a few bucks from breeding her, even though I should have enough sense to know that what I am doing is unethical and reprehensible."

Does that sum it up?

You say you aren't breeding your dog for money (although how much people will pay for mutts is questionable) so why did you breed her? Did you know she may need a C-section? Guess you didn't know that either. Duh - don't you think it would be the mature thing to find out something about dogs before pumping out puppies for $$? How ignorant of you! Tsk tsk!

And my age is not relevant to this discussion, but I'll never see 39 again. How old are you? Certainly old enough to know better, I"ll wager. Please educate yourself before you say something else DUMB. Every time you post, you are making yourself look more and more ignorant.

Please read this list of the comparison of a Backyard Breeder and a Responsible breeder.

I bet I can tell you which category you are in - I'm psychic!;)

Responsible vs Backyard Breeders (http://www.geocities.com/Petsburgh/Fair/1901/chart.html)

Carina
December 29th, 2003, 04:17 PM
LR, that is an awesome link, I saved it. Thanks for posting it!

Luba
December 29th, 2003, 04:27 PM
Ya Great link LR ;)

mona_b
December 29th, 2003, 09:33 PM
OMG....Is this person for real?Guys I could not of said it better.I was going to put my 2 cents in,but I thought I would just leave it up to you.Plus I have a pretty bad potty mouth when something ticks me off.I would have been banned.LOL.

Lucky Rescue
December 29th, 2003, 11:05 PM
Sadly, this person is all too real, and there are thousands of others just the same out there.

Someone has to keep the shelters in business, right?:mad:

mona_b
December 30th, 2003, 01:33 AM
I just can't get over what she was saying.I just can't get over the "seletive"breeding part.:rolleyes:

kiwi523
February 3rd, 2004, 06:08 PM
hi is any one from the edmonton area a professional breeder of chihuahuas(short hair or teacup i think)

C J Modisette
April 7th, 2004, 09:16 AM
Stra8up3, I understand completely what you are trying to say. I almost fell into that trap myself, breeding. Puppies are so cute and cuddly; it's hard not to want to have some around. Then I did some research into Chihuahuas and found out about the genetic problems they are prone to and decided I don't really want that kind of responsibility. The thing that really got to me is that Chi's have large heads and are very hard to birth. Many of them require cessarian section births, which the mommy may or may not live through. I have stayed up nights with my little Chi when he was sick (he was brought to me, I didn't go looking for him) and don't want to get stuck bottle feeding puppies for six weeks. Since your dog is larger she might have had an easier birth process. I certainly hope so.

The pups have probably already been born, but to answer your first question, Chihuahua gestation is nine weeks, just like any other breed of dog.

I applaud you for your efforts with stray animals. Keep up the good work in that area. Please read everything you can find on the subject next time "baby fever" comes your way.

Donna Marie
April 7th, 2004, 06:04 PM
She/he "rescuing" animals then breeding them for financial gain/because puppies are cute? I am not understanding what her/his ultimate goal is here. It seems redundant to save or rescue animals only to breed and help create more when the ones they are saving or rescuing should be indication enough that there is an animal overpopulation as people treat them as disposables.

All pets should be spayed or neutered period.

Spoiled
April 7th, 2004, 06:46 PM
Originally posted by stra8up3
Let me start out first with thanking all of you for all the knowledge you have giving me. I do apperciate it. . Now I will try to reply in order.
I did not know, nor have I ever heard anything about Chihuahua's having all or any of these problems. Had I known, I probally would have reconsidered breeding her. :eek:. When she was brought to me, she had been found on a busy highway, fourth of July, 2 years ago and with 2 large knots on her forehead. So, she may not be pure breed. Probally not since she is larger then most Chihuahuas. She is about 10 or 11 inches in height.
As for the breeding, it was "selective". My next door neighbor has a male Chihuahua they were more then willing to let him come over. As a matter of fact, I could not keep him away. He is the exact same color and he is a little bit smaller then the female.
Computers are also a new thing for me curious if the smaller breed dogs have the same gestation period as the larger breed. And after looking through a couple of books I have, I thought I could find the answer through the computer. In doing so I ended up here (which I am not really sure I am) lol. Due to the fact that my 21 year old daughter ran the phone bill up to over a thousand dollors the first month she moved back home. I can not call my vet (he is long distance). Since I still have not got an answer to my question, :confused: I will take your advise and see if I can't "google" myself as you did, and try to find the answer.
As to the question, "Why had I bred her deliberatly" As I had said before, I did not know there were such problems. When I was caring for the Chihuahuas, I had learned how much people were willing to pay for them. Even without papers. Even though she may not be purebred. Also they don't normally have more then 1 or 2 per liter. I can't count how many people who I have come across that want pupppies. In California they are in very high demand. People are willing to give them a good home and are willing to pay hundreds of dollors for one. Including the neighbor next door (though they won't be getting one from me). I had also thought it would be a nice experiance for my husband and I.
Ok, I do not "bred dogs". Years ago, I had bought at 8 weeks old 1 male then later 1 female, champion bred, purebred, papered dobermans. which I got 2 litters from and sold to good homes. I kept one (that was the one dog I have that was not rescued). The parents died years ago at age 9 of natural causes. The puppy I had kept is now 11 years old.
I do not get all these dogs because I wanted them. I just could not let them die or let them remain in the situation they were in. I bought one from a rescue organization, for a gaurd dog. They are all muts, but over the years I have come to love them and they are my family. Years ago, when I moved here I found the area very high in animal neglect, abuse, ect. More mis-use and abandonment. This is how I am invovled with the resue of animals and such. Even my purebred, 100% Egyptian blood, papered, Arabian mare was aquired. Through a non-profit rescue organization. In Caifornia there seems to be more of a problam with people being responsiable and or caring for an animal as a living thing and being dedicated to it for any long term ownership. Then there is a problem of over population. You see the organizations that I am familar with spay/nueter all the animals immediatly, and before they are placed in a new home. My animals are all fixed except for the doberman. Even the males and at my expense. Prople just don't seem to do that around here. The picture is quite a cute little dog. I noticed though he has not been fixed. I hope that he is watch ever so closely so that he won't (as males do) get out and get hit by a car. It happens so easily for the little ones. Sorry I don't have a picture of mine for you. Though just last night, a camera for computers was given to me. I just need to learn how to use it. :p
Thanks again for all your help and information.




I know this is a little long to quote... but all I can say is oh my goodness, you are so very uneducated. This whole thing doesn't make sence, its kindof like your just dismissing yourself for something you've done. It all contradicts itself.

Chany
April 7th, 2004, 07:02 PM
OMG!! Are you for real? Or are you just posting to see how mad we'll get??!!!
If you're for real then Luba is totally right! You contradict yourself continually!!!
The phone bill was the reason wasn't it? Easy way to pay that off!
As for ignorance honey just from reading your posts your in the top ten!!

As for Cj Modisette! Are you kidding me? You actually believe her?

C J Modisette
April 7th, 2004, 08:43 PM
Yes, I do tend to believe that not all people are as perfect and thoughtful as you evidentally are. I thought that it would be nice to have someone answer her question, for a change, and try to be understanding instead of insulting, harrassing, degrading, denegrading, and throwing stones at the woman (or man) for being less wise than all of you are. How you people can feel justified in demeaning this person for something she/he has obviously thought better of now is beyond my comprehension. There are ways to phrase things that inform an uneducated person, rather than attacking. Take your soap boxes out onto the streets where the really uncaring animal abusers are. That type of person would never dream of looking at a site like this. The purpose of this site is to help eachother out, not to make ourselves feel better by putting everyone else down.

Spoiled
April 7th, 2004, 09:43 PM
The purpose of this site is to help eachother out, not to make ourselves feel better by putting everyone else down.

Do you think we feel better thinking of the extra puppies that this person will make?:confused:

Lucky Rescue
April 7th, 2004, 09:56 PM
How you people can feel justified in demeaning this person for something she/he has obviously thought better of now is beyond my comprehension.

Well, we have here an adult of at least normal intelligence, who deliberately bred a stray and probably mixed breed dog ONLY because "People will pay hundreds of dollars for them."

Can't get much more unethical than that, can you?

I just got a call from someone who did the same thing. She now has 9 puppies and guess who is being asked to find them homes?

So, yeah - I get a little riled up over this ignorant and irresponsible behavior that is NOT fueled by a love of puppies, but by greed for "hundreds of dollars."

Karin
April 7th, 2004, 10:20 PM
I may be new here but I am left shaking my head in wonder!?!?


Again I am brain boggled..

C J Modisette
April 7th, 2004, 10:55 PM
Perhaps my view of this situation differs from yours because of the neighborhood in which I live. My neighbors are from an ethnic background that believes that each and every member of the family needs to have a dog who is expendable. When the dog dies they believe that the dog was protecting the owner from some unseen force that was threatening said owner. Yes, they really believe that! I live in a rural area and most of my neighbors let their dogs run free (mine are fenced in). When Canine Parvo Virus hit the neighborhood most people thought I was crazy to suggest that they should make sure that their dogs were vaccinated (mine are). If one or more of their dogs died they just picked up more puppies from one of the many people who give them away in the parking lot of a local department store.

These people, for the most part, don't provide proper nutrician for their dogs, either. They give them whatever is left over from the dinner table when the humans are finished eating. One of my ex-neighbors (I'm very glad that she's gone) fed her dog nothing but corn flakes! Yes, the breakfast cereal. She also kept him on a rope of no more than 15 feet, when he didn't have it tangled in something. Her children kicked him and hit him with sticks. When his hair fell out she decided she didn't want him anymore and just let him go. Thank goodness she didn't follow the tradition and she only had the one dog! The dog made it's way to my house. I fed and cared for him. He was very loving and wanted to please me more than anything else. Once the dog grew his hair back in and was healthy again the neighbor took the dog back and moved.

Another dog showed up at my house almost unable to stand. He was skin and bones, his legs shook, and someone had chopped off his tail - when he was an adult! It took months for him to trust me but he ended up being the best dog I have ever known.

You are probably wondering why I don't call the authorities and report these atrocities. The county animal control has been called and drives through the area about twice a week. The dogs running loose hide. The few who are caught are just replaced with other puppies. The woman who owned the "corn flake dog" was given a ticket! Not a fine, not a reprimand, just a ticket!

This is the kind of person I see every day: at the mailbox, at the dumpster, as I drive down the road. In comparison to this I have not seen anything on this site that I would call horrendous. The person who started this thread is ignorant, definitely; thoughtless and irresponsible, I would agree with that; but not one of the monsters I live near. At least he/she cared enough to realize that he/she needed advice.

Chany
April 8th, 2004, 08:13 AM
Alright CJ, I agree with some of what your saying. But this person supposedly takes in rescue dogs? Now if she truly does that, why on earth would she be breeding to add more to the world.
I'm sorry L.R., Luba,LavendarRott, and Carina were right.
She is not reliable in what she was saying.
However from your latest post, its people like you who deserve credit. :) Feeding your neighbors dogs!! If only more people were that considerate!
I don't think any of us here think we're perfect! Thoughtful and considerate, yes I guess we are. Why is that such a bad thing to be?
And Cj I guess your thoughtful and considerate as well ;)

chico2
April 8th, 2004, 08:39 AM
There was a time since getting to know a few"rescue-chi's"that I wanted to get one,phoned around to "reputable"breeders and the tea-cup chi's sold for anywhere between $1.500-$2.500,the regular sized Chi's $1.000-$1.500.
Luckily with my cats,I decided not to:)
This"Lady"though seems to want to make a quick buck,to pay for a phone-bill,all the wrong reasons for putting a little Chi through a pregnancy:mad:
I agree sometimes people here,involved in rescue and fostering get a little harsh,but they see the ugly side of humanity by caring for abandonned and abused animals.
We all here love and care for animals some in a big way and others,like me,in a smaller way and this Forum is concerned about the animals,not neccesarily an irresponsible owners feelings..hence the harsh replies.

Spoiled
April 8th, 2004, 08:41 AM
believes that each and every member of the family needs to have a dog who is expendable.

Unfortunutly, not all people around the world think this, and that is why we need animal shelters. Breeding will only make the problem worse, at about a rate of five at a time if not more.

Lucky Rescue
April 8th, 2004, 10:05 AM
CJ Modisette - I'm sorry you live in an area of brutal and ignorant people who abuse animals. However, that doesn't mean that if someone comes here saying they are going to do something extremely stupid and unethical that we'll say, "Well, lots of people abuse animals worse, so what you're doing is o.k.!"

In the year 2004 there is NO excuse to be so ignorant of the slaughter of unwanted animals in every shelter across the continent.

I have a beautiful purebred dog, whose puppies could have sold for "hundreds of dollars." But I, like most of the other people here won't do that EVER, because we don't want to add to that slaughter for our own selfish, greedy or dumb reasons.

The original poster (who is long gone) is literate enough to use a computer and should be literate enough to know there is a serious problem. And someone who is breeding mutts to peddle for bucks is pretty really scraping the bottom of the barrel.

mona_b
April 8th, 2004, 10:23 AM
C J...The breeding was done deliberately,didn't research ANYTHING about this breed.Didn't even know the gestation of this breed.Or health problems.And puppies are a high demand in California.


All this for a phone bill?That is just pathetic.

Also,if she IS a rescue,why the heck would she want to breed?There is a reason they are called RESCUES.

We have every right to be harsh and even rude with this person.

This is not a child.This is a person who has a 21 year old daughter.

Also,if she does rescue,then she would be educated already.Don't you think?

CJ,your views of this situation are definately different then ours.

To me it seems like you are saying what this person is doing is ok.

As for the rest of us,we don't think it is.

Hmmmmm,I was just thinking something.Maybe I shouldn't have had Yukon and Tron fixed.This way I could have used them for stud to pay my bills.I wonder if I can ger their neuter reversed...We all know that GSD's are in high demand here...:rolleyes:

C J Modisette
April 8th, 2004, 10:42 AM
LuckyRescue and Mona B, I was not trying to say what the person did was okay, I was trying to put some perspective on the situation. I did say he/she was ignorant, irresponsible, and thoughtless.

It definitely is not okay to breed stray animals for any reason, especially to pay bills. I did not get the feeling that the person was using the dogs to pay bills, that would be stupid since the cost of vet bills for puppies is too high to make any real profit. I thought that person was using the phone bill as a reason for not seeing a vet. No matter what he/she was saying, it is not okay to breed the stray Chihuahua. He/she is contributing to a problem that just goes on and on. Most of the puppies will end up being tortured daily like the dogs I see in my neighborhood.

The point I was originally trying to make is that the person was trying to get educated, a bit late, but at least open to information. As you said, LuckyRescue, this person is long gone from this website, probably because of all the verbal hiney-chewing he/she received. Had the problem been addressed in a more civil manner the point could have been made that he/she was contributing to a major problem without alienating that person in the process. That person would then feel open to suggestions from the many experts on this site and learn what should have been done and can be done in the future.

The attack on the person with the original question likely only caused him/her to shut out any valuable education he/she might have received now or in the future. Truely, this person should have known better. But we all do things that we should have known better than to do. This situation could have been handled in such a way as to turn the person into a true animal rescue worker, not just one in name only.

We do have different perspectives on this point. You see the result of abuse when you get the animal to your shelter and have the challenge of bringing life and hope back into it's eyes, and then find a good home for it. I see the abuse on a daily basis and am powerless to do anything about it.

Perhaps we can find a way to work together.

Lucky Rescue
April 8th, 2004, 12:22 PM
I DO agree - education is desperately needed. I did attempt to do that at the beginning of this thread, but as more facts came out the situation got worse and worse.

The ulitimate was this person finally trying to justify what she did by blaming the neighbour's dog for impregnating hers. She must be lying, because originally she said the breeding was "deliberate" :rolleyes: Why should we waste time trying to educate someone who lies?

She also has a history of backyard breeding dogs,as you will see if you read all her posts.

In fact, what she might say is: "Yes, I know how many dogs die in shelters and are dumped, abused and unwanted. But I am going to add to this problem by breeding a stray dog and hoping I can make a couple bucks." At least that would be honest.

Even though her feelings may have been hurt and she left, anyone else contemplating doing what she did might read all the arguments against it on this thread and hopefully change their minds.

Some people are willing to listen to reason, but others will NOT take responsibility for their actions or admit to fault and need a clout with a 2 x 4. JMO

mona_b
April 8th, 2004, 12:49 PM
And we do NOT tolerate BYB's in any way shape or form.

She bred 2 dobies.They were not show dogs.I doubt that they were even OVC or OFA tested.

What people will do for money.:rolleyes:



As for what LR just said,I totally agree 200%:D

stra8up3
April 8th, 2004, 01:57 PM
wingding had here puppies january 10 in my bed without a hitch. i woke up in time to open the sacs of each puppy since she had not done it her self. she was a very good mother. even played with them when they got older. they have all there shots wormed and are taken to the vet just like a child. they are in very good homes and i see them all the time. and they send me pictures. one went to a 74 year old man who had lost his wife rcently. he loves his puppy takes his puppy every where with him and he says he is the smartist dog he has ever had. he talks of the puppy all the time telling stories of what it did and so forth so i am happy for them. and have no regrets. by the way it was him who told me the gestation period. and said it is the same as cats which i had not known.

stra8up3
April 8th, 2004, 02:11 PM
by the way i gave one puppy away the other i sold for $100.00. so i spent more then what i made. everyone seems to want to say that i am looking to make money. this is far from the truth.

stra8up3
April 8th, 2004, 02:17 PM
by the way i gave one puppy away the other i sold for $100.00. so i spent more then what i made. everyone seems to want to say that i am looking to make money. this is far from the truth.

Lucky Rescue
April 8th, 2004, 02:46 PM
Glad everyone is healthy.

So now that you see there are no big bucks to be made from breeding strays, did you get your girl spayed?

C J Modisette
April 9th, 2004, 10:10 AM
Well..... It looks like I owe everyone an apology. I'm big enough to admit when I'm wrong, and I was wrong with this one.

My faith in the goodness of the human soul and educatability of people searching for help certainly was not rewarded in this case.

I sure hope I'm right next time, for the sake of all our four-footed friends.

Lucky Rescue
April 9th, 2004, 12:57 PM
I sure hope I'm right next time, for the sake of all our four-footed friends.

I for one certainly hope you are too!:) I would love to be wrong as well.

Karin
April 9th, 2004, 01:10 PM
Still boggles my mind.



I hope the mom was spayed.


( I was expecting a full dystocia....but of course we would never hear about that!)

mona_b
April 9th, 2004, 01:20 PM
And people wonder why we are harsh at times.

It's hard to educate people when they don't want to listen or hear the advise we offer.

On another post,someone has blown off when no one said anything wrong.

I try to help and advise to the best of my knowledge.But then at times I wonder why bother when some get so defensive as to what is said.

C J apology accepted..:)

Lucky Rescue
April 9th, 2004, 02:05 PM
I wonder why bother when some get so defensive as to what is said.

Personally, I think some people feel guilty over what they are doing to their pets, and that guilt comes out as hostility and anger at anyone who makes them face it.

Karin
April 9th, 2004, 03:55 PM
I am taking the high road. I just deleted a lengthy post...

I get riled also when some people just do not "get it".

stra8up3
April 10th, 2004, 11:15 AM
everyone who knows me will tell you that i care about animals and care for animals, theirs and alike more then just about anyone they know. there is not anyone that knows me that would not agree. with that and knowing the truth in my heart is enough for me. now you must excuse me because i have more imortant things to tend to then arguing such sensless acusations. from people who just do not seem to have anything else better to do.

stra8up3
April 10th, 2004, 12:32 PM
that otta get ya all going. lol.

Lucky Rescue
April 10th, 2004, 01:09 PM
So did you get that mixed breed bitch spayed yet?

now you must excuse me because i have more imortant things to tend to then arguing such sensless acusations.

Really? like what?:D

chico2
April 10th, 2004, 03:49 PM
Meow,meow,Lucky:D

amaruq
April 10th, 2004, 04:08 PM
stra8up3:

You are a selfish, irresponsible person. you think your something special right now..but wait till some of those pups end up in the h/s. You are one of the people who should be fined for adding to the populations in the H/S!

mona_b
April 10th, 2004, 05:54 PM
Can you say TROLL.......:D

Karin
April 10th, 2004, 06:50 PM
Originally posted by amaruq
stra8up3:

You are a selfish, irresponsible person. you think your something special right now..but wait till some of those pups end up in the h/s. You are one of the people who should be fined for adding to the populations in the H/S!




HIGH FIVES!




Great post but I believe it falls on deaf ears...and the sight is clouded by dollar signs...

*sigh*

Shayer
May 28th, 2004, 08:29 AM
:eek: :eek:
You obviously don’t know a thing about breeding chihuahaus, I understand someone who has no idea of gestation period shouldn’t even take that challenge. But I think you should learn a-little to before you try to make someone else look stupid. Chihuahuas are as easy as anything else to breed, and I have not had a problem with any of mine over the years!!! Learn something before you hurt someone else, everyone needs to learn some how and without some ones simple advice something could go wrong with the little thing!!!!!
:confused: ;)

Darkseeker
May 28th, 2004, 08:44 AM
I agree with saying shame on you...

but saying people are idiots and insult them without knowing them is more idiotic if you ask me.

Yes this dog should never have been bred. But please spare the insults over the internet.. Useless and childish!

Yes I love dogs and will care for mine without any hesitation.
But there are worst things going on right now, people are being killed everyday and there seems to be more people worried about cats and dogs.

chico2
May 28th, 2004, 09:26 AM
Darkseeker. I actually hate that saying,"people are being killed each day in the world,more important than animals" :mad:
There are things we can do something about and then there are things we cannot.We cannot save all the starving people in the world,or stop wars...and animals are lesser creatures(sometimes I wonder!)but no less deserving of humane treatment,they don't start wars or kill each other for the sake of killing and to many of us they are family members with no less importance.Like I had responsabilty for my sons when I brought them into this world,the same goes for any animal I care for and others in my path.
Lets care for anybody and anything,try to be and do the best that we can :)

Darkseeker
May 28th, 2004, 09:31 AM
There is something you can do to help people.

Have you been around shelters in montreal or toronto.
You would realise that there is probably more people in need than you think and that right near you.

I jut find it sad sometimes that there seems to be more organizations to save the dogs, the cats, the whales, the fish then there are to help people.

I just can't help but being a bit frustrated when i see how mean some people can be because of a pregnant dog. Poeple get pregnant all the time (without wanting to) and to not get called names so badly.

chico2
May 28th, 2004, 04:17 PM
Yes Darkseeker,you are right I could help out with homeless people,at the food banks or wherever.
But I have neither the time or inclination and I do not live in Toronto.
I have two handicapped kids(not looking for sympathy)and as for helping they are my first priority.
People,unlike animals can help themselves,it's really sad to see people down on their luck,I was once too...but people have ways of surviving,animals cannot survive without us.

chico2
May 28th, 2004, 07:14 PM
I just wanted to add,I am no hero,like Lucky,Luba and some others,I only have my own three cats,but would not hesitate to be involved if I saw an animal in trouble,any animal even the human kind.
The reason for so many organisations in the Montreal area is because your SPCA has the highest kill-rate in Canada,any animal ending up there will more than likely never leave.Hence all the private non-profit shelters.
We can all do our bit in helping out,but why do we have to chose one or the other,human or animal :confused:
No more on this subject from me,I tend to go on and on,sorry about that :D :D

mona_b
May 28th, 2004, 07:26 PM
This site is about pets.Lets keep it that way shall we.... :D

Anita,I agree...We can survive on our own,animals can't.



I need to add something....

I was born and raised in Toronto...I know what goes on there.

Something should be done about these sqeegie(sp) kids that are all over Front Street,Lakeshore...Do I feel sorry for them,hell no..This is the life they chose.The people living on the streets,don't let them all fool you.There are MANY that are actually well off and DO have money.Trust me on this one.

Lucky Rescue
May 28th, 2004, 07:56 PM
Right Mona. This is a pet board, so that is what we focus on. And just because someone is poor does not necessarily mean they are deserving.

Animals don't have options, as people do, and can't call a hotline for help or use birth control.

chico2
May 28th, 2004, 10:10 PM
Well guys,you said it much better than I did :D