December 26th, 2003, 12:08 AM
We bought a bichon-frise, 8 week old, puppy on Saturday (five days ago from a dealer). He had had his vaccinations. The dog seemed in good health and when we got him home he was in good spirits. The next day (Sunday) in the afternoon he started vomitting and had diahrea (no blood). He also got very lethargic, (though he is drinking water). By Tuesday there had been no improvement so we took him to the vet. The vet ran some blood tests and tested the stool sample, concluded that the puppy was dehydrated and gave him some injections for nutrients, etc.. We also received a seven day supply of an antibacterial oral medicine for bowel and digestive problems. It's now Thursday evening and the puppy has shown no sign of recovery. He's lost weight and is not improving. If anyone could please help to advise what to do we would appreciate it. Someone had suggested that the puppy is stressed, or it was a change of diet, type of water, etc.. But he isn't getting any better.
December 26th, 2003, 12:30 AM
Ok my first question is,what do you mean by a dealer?If it's a breeder,then I suggest calling the breeder and letting them know what's going on.This problem with your puppy had to have started before you got him.He had to have been dehydrated before you got him.What food is he on?My friend has 2 bichons and never had this problem when she got them.I also suggest you call the vet back and let them know that puppy is not getting better.
December 26th, 2003, 04:13 AM
Just take the dog to the vet
there is nothing we can do really to help you
if there is a problem your dog needs treatment
December 26th, 2003, 09:36 AM
Sounds like parvo or distemper...?
Since you refer to a "dealer" I'm assuming this is some dreadful puppy mill/backyard breeder who may have lied about shots. If these people are legitimate (I'm guessing not) they will help you and will even be able to refer you to their vet. But I'm assuming these people are scum who breed cute puppies just for money, and don't give a **** what happens after they've got their money. (Feel free to correct me if I am wrong.)
Poor pup, he could well die without treatment, I hope your vet can help! Post updates please...keeping my fingers crossed for the little guy.
December 26th, 2003, 02:58 PM
Terminology, sorry, I should have said breeder, however, I've always called them dealers! It was a reputable person from whom we bought him, innoculation papers signed, dated and included. We have since spoken to her and she has suggested that it is "giardia". The seven day treatment that we received from the vet is an antibiotic to combat the illness. It's just a shame to see the poor little soul so listless and not eating.
After finding out about parvo symptoms, there would have been blood in his stool and the vet did check him out for obvious diseases. So, thanks anyway!
December 26th, 2003, 03:55 PM
Oh OK, when I saw the term "dealer" it set off red flags! Have you asked the breeder about this? Maybe s/he has some insight.
If it's giardia, you're probably giving Flagyl - it's very effective and takes just a day or two before the dog is back to normal (although you must of course give the whole course of meds.) If he's still not improving, I'd call the vet and ask about it. The couple of times I've had to have giardia treated the meds have acted very quickly.
December 26th, 2003, 06:51 PM
We have just got back from the vet. He got so desperately weak in a very short period, that we took him straight to emergency. They tested for Parvo and it was negative. He needed to be rehydrated and after five minutes on the i.v., he was lifting his head to look around. He will be on it for 24 hours and we will reassess the situation. They still don't know what the problem is though.
I find it disappointing that we paid a large (we are on a tight budget) sum of money for the puppy and are paying an equally large amount five days later. I called the breeder and asked her before we went to the vet if she would contribute to the costs, which she flatly refused.
What can you do? Has anyone else out there been through the same thing? There is no guarantee tomorrow after he has been removed from the i.v., that he will survive.
December 26th, 2003, 07:30 PM
You got this pup on Saturday, which means he already had whatever is making him sick now.
You say this breeder is "reputable". I"m sorry, but she is NOT. A reputable breeder would:
a - make sure their dogs and puppies are healthy
b - want to know about any illness
c - reimburse you for the expenses.
d - have a contract, covering all such eventualities.
I'm afraid you gave your money to a run-of-the-mill Backyard breeder.
Did you sign a contract of any kind? Did this person show proof of health testing and titles in her breeding stock? What makes you say she is reputable?
I'm so very sorry you are going through this, and particularly sorry for this puppy, yet another victim of a greedy person who churns out puppies only for financial gain.
Your only alternative is small claims court. If I were you, I would sue this person, to recoup the costs, plus to make her understand that what she is doing is WRONG. You WILL win.
Make sure you get a statement from your vet detailing what is wrong with this puppy, including how long the puppy has had this illness, and not just a bill.
This person is ripping people off and abusing animals and should NOT get away with it.
December 26th, 2003, 07:34 PM
Hmmm. I may be reevaluating the "reputable" thing...does the breeder actually seem to care about the puppy? I don't know if there's an incubation period for giardia.
Out of curiousity, I posted your situation (not this thread, just particulars) to a very active online Rottweiler community; many of the regulars are serious Rottweiler people. I just asked what the standard protocol is for this sort of situation.
I've only got one puppy in my life from a very very excellent (internationally known, actually) breeder. That was almost three years ago and I'm still in touch with her; she wants lifelong updates on "her" puppies. She doesn't breed many litters at all, and keeps track of each one. I can't imagine her telling me to hit the road jack if Cooper had gotten sick right after I brought him home, but I can't recall what my contract said about that - do you have a written contract?
If whatever your poor puppy has was contracted while in her care, she damn well should be liable. It would be nice to have a definite diagnosis...
But all the above is just an aside - the important thing is that your puppy survive this! I am really really hoping for the best. I'll post whatever I find out as to standard protocols from COE (Code Of Ethics) breeders.
Edit - Lucky & I posted at the same time. Good idea to document everything. If you have proof of vet care the breeder provided, you should also have that vet's name. Contact them too!
December 26th, 2003, 08:14 PM
"It is between the breeder and puppy buyer. If there was no written contract or if the state the transaction took place in has no statutes or puppy lemon laws, then the pup and responsibility are hers. There might be a puppy lemon law. If she purchased it locally, she very well might have return within xxxx time period. If she dinks around about it that window for return can disappear along with the purchase money and healthcare money."
So check your local laws...
If you want to see where I posted your situation, PM me and I can send you the link.
December 26th, 2003, 08:17 PM
Hey where did my post go
Sheepie doodle man, now I have to remember what I wrote?
Okay well, I suppose I was going to question whether this so called breeder registers their pups with the CKK or the AKK??
If so did you get a certificate for this?
IF you did, contact the CKK or AKK where the pup was registered see if they take complaints about these 'breeders' or have an adudicator?
I'm not sure as I've never used them myself. I have only had one pure rough collie many years ago that was registered and we had certification from the CKK.
Something to look into!
On another note, I hope that your darling puppy survives this illness. Be strong, be loving and hold on!
Best of luck and keep us all informed
GO PUPPY YOU CAN MAKE IT!!
December 27th, 2003, 12:43 AM
Well, we are certainly learning the hard way. The dog was not registered, and we were just looking for a family pet, so didn't think it was a priority. We live in Ontario, so I am not sure if there is a law which protects a consumer with a pet purchase. When we delved deeper, we discovered the innoculations were given in, yes..... Quebec. There was a contract, but through some error we never actually signed it.
The vet just called an hour or so ago, to say the poor pup is coughing and they now suspect it has pneumonia as well as any other problems. It's not looking good and I'm not looking forward to breaking this to the kids who are away for a few days!
December 27th, 2003, 02:00 AM
Quebec is the puppy mill capital of Canada.:(
Someone sold you this pup and gave you vaccination certificates and guarenteed it to be healthy, no? It was sick when you got it, so you could certainly try and sue for the vet bills. Do you have anything signed by you and the "breeder"?
Yet another sad example of why people should do their homework and make sure contracts are read and signed
My dog was sick when I got her from a "rescue" and I did consult legal counsel and was told I would win a judgement in small claims court.
Let us know how this baby does. Very sad, but very common, situation.
December 27th, 2003, 02:46 AM
Well I have another suggestion for you.
Take it to the media!!
I am NOT joking! Where do you live?
There are all kinds of media that do consumer interest stories and I think you could probably get some action and also some publicity.
Too many of these damn puppy mills around.
I have seen them advertise all over the classifieds. It usually reads something like this
..."Yorkies, Westies, Spitz, Poodles, Lhasa's ready to go home now. Vaccinated and not many left to choose from. Will deliver within 'X' amt of miles (then the price). Pet stores call for larger orders."
I can't stand reading those, I get gut rot just thinkin about it all.
I will say puppy prayers. Poor little lovely!
I have a friend who works for a vet who takes in dogs from a particular pet store, whom obviously get their animals from mills. When the dog/pup gets sick they send it to the vet to get PTS so they dont' have to expend any money on the little soul. The vet absorbs much of the cost and usually does not PTS tries to get pup well to adopt out.
Let us all hope for the best with your dear little pup.
December 27th, 2003, 07:20 AM
Oh..I'm pulling for your puppy too - what is his name? I am really sorry you and the pup are going through this. :(
"although i never had a written contract with my breeder, she told me she would refund my $$ and take maverick back if i wasn't satisfied with his 1st check up at the vet........ she was very helpful the 1st couple months i had him. i'd call her with questions and she call to see how we were all adjusting. she was very accomodating"
Come to think about it, my contract stated I must take Cooper to the vet within three days; same deal as above. I lost my copy in my move from Colorado to Michigan. :o
Puppy prayers from Michigan too.
Here in the US, small claims court would also be an option & you'd probably win - and how many dogs does she have? Perhaps there is a local law about how many dogs one can have. We have such a law in this county. Two years ago I called animal control here on someone who kept advertising different breeds. Animal control shut them down!!!! :) :) One small victory. I keep my eye on that house too...
December 27th, 2003, 11:36 AM
OMG poor puppy.And poor you.You must be a basket case.I know you learnt the hard way.But it's not your fault.You had no idea.It will be very hard on the kids.Something has got to be done about this.This person should not get away with this.I'm sure you are not the only one going through this.If there were more puppies then the new owners maybe having this problem too.It's just so sad.And I would go to the media.Have you talked to that backyard breeder?Have you told them what is going on?I would call.Something must be done about this.You bought a sick puppy.And I am so very sure they new about it.I feel for you and your family.And I hope puppy gets better.But please be prepared for the worse.And I am sorry,but this was not a reputal person you bought him from.All purebreds MUST come with papers.Doesn't matter if it only for pet.There is an amazing book that you can get.It's called Dogs Annuel.It has all the licenced reputal breeders in there.Ant there is one for the USA also.My prayers are with puppy,you and your family.:)
December 27th, 2003, 01:39 PM
Good for you Carina, thats an amazing story getting that idiot shut down!! :)
A lot of good the laws do the animals NONE!! They're too relaxed, and when they DO catch these inhumane puppy millers, they just ban them from owning dogs for a few years and give them a small fine. WHOOPIE DOOO!
These idiots make so much money they just relocate or sometimes they don't even have to bother because NOBODY follows up and checks up on them.
These guys are evil and sneaky.
When u make an appt to go see the puppy they don't obviously take you to where this nasty breeding mill is, they take you somewhere else...so u have no idea!
I HATE THEM and the laws need to be changed and reinforced to prevent these vultures from ruining more lives!
God Bless the puppies :)
December 27th, 2003, 07:11 PM
Well, sad, bad news. After more tests the vet discovered a problem with his liver. They said it would be kinder to have our pup euthanized. It had not been a week since we got him. The vet was disgusted and called the "breeder" who in turn called us. Here we are just suffering the loss (not to mention a horrendous bill) and she called us up angry and saying it was our fault the puppy must have been stressed and that we have children and that they must have upset him!!! Unbelievable. Especially as our children are 13 and older.
She again refused a refund, nor help with our vet bill. It is disgusting and very obvious that there is not a decent word I can describe her with. We are deciding how to deal with the situation. To say that we have learnt a lot by this sad situation is an understatement.
December 27th, 2003, 07:27 PM
I am so very sorry.My heart goes out to you and your family.Especially the childern.I know they can get real close to new pet.Just remember,this had nothing to do with you.You didn't do anything wrong.This B***H has to be stopped.Somehow.She must be reported.Hey there is a guy on City pulse who helps people who have prblems.I think it's Jojo Chinto.He has helped alot of people get their things or money back.And he reports it on the t.v too.
Once again,I am so very sorry for your loss.You and your family have been through hell.HUGS to your family.
December 27th, 2003, 08:14 PM
I'm so sorry this puppy lived such a short life filled with suffering, and that you had to learn a lesson the hardest way possible.
I know money cannot compensate you for this ordeal, but the only way to stop these people is to hit them in the only place they care about - their wallets.
Make sure you get a vet report - detailing this illness, if it was genetic, and if the puppy had it since birth.
Then take this miller to court! You'll be helping to save other innocent animals from this kind of abuse and suffering.
December 27th, 2003, 08:28 PM
OH my goodness very big hugs to you very big, I am so saddened by this!
I have to tell you something, this puppy killer woman MUST have gave the puppy a stimulant before you got there, so it would appear to be 'well'.....if you understand what I mean. Something that would last for a few hours, then the next day you notice the illness. WELL I'm sure the dog had the same symptoms and maybe they were 'doping' it up somehow before you got there.
I am not surprised but I am very angry.
Where did you see the advertisement for this dog? A classified?
Whereever it was call the appropriate party ie the newspaper and complain about it!
Get the persons name addy and phone number and post it all on here and other sites so that others won't buy from this witch!!
YES take this nut to small claims court as well, don't let it go!
Call the spca and your local shelters, get advise and help on what they know may have worked in the past.
I am so sorry for what you have gone through. Let us all say a prayer for this little soul that is now leaving this earth after only a short period of time.
AND let us also pray for all the other dogs and puppies this cruel individual has!
If you need any sort of help or have questions, ask away here all of us would be more then willing to do whatever we can!!
December 28th, 2003, 07:23 AM
Oh I am so sorry for your loss...what an evil woman. I'm glad your vet got on her case.
I agree....if anything positive can come of this, any legal action you can take against this woman to hurt her business will be good. I'm so sorry you, your family & the puppy had to go through this. What sort of life must her breeding dogs live if this is how much she cares... :(
(((kevanne and family)))
December 28th, 2003, 10:44 AM
I really hope you can do something about that women. I also fear for the rest of the pups. Do you know where they went? Does she have any left? If she does call Humane Society....get them involved in this too!
I went through something similar and the women threw the pups in the dumpster (this was my experience and hopefully this won't happen).
December 28th, 2003, 07:36 PM
kevanne, I am so SO sorry to read about your loss.
do what all these ppl are saying, take it to the media, take it to court, call the Humane Society and SPCA!
they can help, they'll give you good references as well.
horrible and IRRESPONSIBLE ppl who run puppy mills should be shot!