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Brand recommendation for low protein kibble

mummummum
April 20th, 2006, 10:49 PM
One of the gals I work with has a sweet little pit bull who has had two surgeries to remove calcium oxalate stones, takes potassium citrate and is on a low protein kibble that she buys at the Vet - I think it's the "i/d" brand but it may be..."Medi/cal"? - can't recall but I know many of you don't recommend the Vet clinic brands. She is open to trying something more holistic, a healthy "real food" kibble but wants to stay with the low, low protein as so far :fingerscr . he's been problem free for almost two years. Anyone in a similiar situation with brand recommendations ?

Prin
April 21st, 2006, 01:11 AM
I don't particularly like the low protein ones, but here is one anyway (18%):
Solid Gold Holistique Blendz (http://www.solidgoldhealth.com/products/showproduct.php?id=6&code=160)

mummummum
April 21st, 2006, 01:28 AM
Clarification Prin : you don't like low protein diets in general or you don't like Solid Gold's low protein kibble? If it's diet in general, my limited understanding of his condition is that reduced protein in combination with the potassiium citrate is prophylactic. I'll have to ask her the name of the kibble she's feeding him now - I thought she said it was 14% (which given that it's kibble seems close to malnutrition level but, I didn't want to put her off until I had an alternative to offer in response).

Prin
April 21st, 2006, 01:30 AM
Clarification Prin : you don't like low protein diets in general or you don't like Solid Gold's low protein kibble? If it's diet in general, my limited understanding of his condition is that reduced protein in combination with the potassiium citrate is prophylactic. I'll have to ask her the name of the kibble she's feeding him now - I thought she said it was 14% (which given that it's kibble seems close to malnutrition level but, I didn't want to put her off until I had an alternative to offer in response).
Just in general... Usually, they have wayy more filler in there than regular dog food because they're so-called diet foods... But for medical reasons, ok. (Not for diet/weightloss reasons).

I don't know any under 18- the studies say under 15% is detrimental to health.

mummummum
April 21st, 2006, 01:41 AM
Thanks Prin. I'll pass the brand along to her so she can give it a go. I probably misheard her "14%".

hollyhock
April 22nd, 2006, 03:49 PM
My mini schnauzer has been diagnosed with a liver shunt and has developed stones previously from this... he is now on a low protein diet, called LD. from the vets. 9kg bag is 50 dollars.. been looking around to see what else is out there too.

Prin
April 23rd, 2006, 12:02 AM
Thanks Prin. I'll pass the brand along to her so she can give it a go. I probably misheard her "14%".
After hollyhock posted LD, I searched and it's 14.5%... Hills LD (http://www.hillsvet.com/zSkin_2/products/product_details.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=8455244417 63449&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302024938&bmUID=1145767977234&bmLocale=en_CA)

I don't know how that works long term because everything I have ever read suggests that under 15% is just insufficient (especially if most of it is coming from corn. :confused: )

Check this out:
http://home.gci.net/~divs/nutrition/low_protein.html
There are low protein low phosphorus recipes for dogs...

I'm just not sure if that drastic a diet is necessary for stones... I mean Hills L/D is for liver failure... According to Hills:
Prescription Diet® l/d® was created by veterinarians specifically for the nutritional management of dogs with liver disorders that cause reduced liver function.:confused: I'm not an expert on feeding dogs with medical disorders, but it just seems drastic.

Anybody else have anything to add? :o

OntarioGreys
April 23rd, 2006, 07:22 PM
One of the minerals that need to be lowered is oxalates to help prevent the formation, the other mineral is calcium which created when digesting proteins, but that you can only go so low with the calcium and you risk bone problems and also results in loss of muscle mass, which in prescription diets the protein level is so low that the problems I mentioned often do occur so taking that into account you want to moderate the calcium levels and bring the oxalate down as low as totally possible to help prevent binding of the minerals of these two mineral into stones


This article goes into that discussed feeding and also suggests a chinese herbal that soften stones as a supplement
http://www.b-naturals.com/Dec2004.php there is also a link to a support forum in the link above for additional advice

I'm just not sure if that drastic a diet is necessary for stones... I mean Hills L/D is for liver failure... According to Hills:


Oxalate stones are the worst type of stone to deal with, struvite stones can be dissolved with a prescription diet in a lot of cases but oxalate means surgery to remove, Struvite can be control by modify PH for example making it more acidic, but that does not work for oxalate the only way to prevent is by strictly controlling diet, and regular kibble diets have higher levels of calcium to support bone growth so they just work work with dogs with oxalate stones. also there is no guides on the kibble packaging with regards to percent of oxolate.