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Suzie, and her readiness for a fight.

.unknown.
April 10th, 2006, 05:37 PM
Suzie is calm around other dogs, unless she is on lead or if someone growls. If my other dog luna is present, she is ready at any time to come to Luna's defense.

One time we were playing frisbee, a border collie came running straight for me and suzie came to my defense and i had to pull Suzie off the dog. She didn't make it bleed, but she had it on the ground pinned and wasn't gonna let up. She didn't relax until i pulled her off.

We have taken her to offleash parks since we adopted her when she was 4mos old, and now, we just DONT because she is not trustworthy.

She's an excellent guard/watchdog. but I don't want any accidents or anything.

Will i be better benefitted from a trainer or a behaviorist to find out the cause or source of her aggression?

I won't give her up, but i want to know how to make everyone/thing safe. I am worried, is it a genetic thing?

Lucky Rescue
April 10th, 2006, 06:06 PM
I won't give her up,

I should hope not, as her actions sound perfectly reasonable to me.

a border collie came running straight for me and suzie came to my defense and i had to pull Suzie off the dog. She didn't make it bleed, but she had it on the ground pinned and wasn't gonna let up. She didn't relax until i pulled her off.

Your dog was trying to protect you, and did it in a very good way and didn't even injure the other dog. Would you prefer she just stand there wagging her tail while a dog attacks you?:confused:

My last dog would also pin other dogs down if they were behaving badly. Both dogs understood very well what was going on, and I appreciated his actions. He was certainly not dog park material, but so what?

I am confused by the thinking these days that every dog must love all other dogs, even if those other dogs are acting aggressively. Odd indeed.

.unknown.
April 10th, 2006, 06:53 PM
Don't get me wrong, i understand she was protecting me. and OF COURSE i wouldn't want her to stand there if the dog attacked me.

What i am concerned with, is that as she is growing, her Dog agression is becoming more and more "apparent", that's not really the word i want to use, but it's the best one i can find. The concern comes from her seeming to just "snap" into a big ball of anger if she thinks someone is in trouble, and whether this dog-dog aggression could carry over to people too? How do you accomodate a proctective dog? She obviously will need to know from the Humans how and who isnt a threat?

I'm not BLAMING HER. I am trying to find the best way to accomodate her and her personality. Please don't assume that i am being ignorant to that.

jawert1
April 10th, 2006, 07:46 PM
I'm in a similar position (though not quite) with my very leash aggressive Peaches, to the point that we don't go to dog parks and we only go out with a prong collar and muzzle on since I can't trust that other people will curb their dogs even in a non-dog park environment. I've learned in some ways to adapt to her, but also have worked extensively on training and verbal/nonverbal cues (i.e. Mom's not stressed, I shouldn't be ready to fight, but always on the lookout). It's slow going for sure, and some people simply don't get it (even when the muzzle is bright blaze orange), but I assure you, you'll be glad for more appropriate responses in the end and keep up the great work you've already started :)

.unknown.
April 11th, 2006, 11:10 AM
Do muzzles cause any emotional distress to the dog?

Lissa
April 11th, 2006, 12:46 PM
I am confused by the thinking these days that every dog must love all other dogs, even if those other dogs are acting aggressively. Odd indeed.

I agree - it is ridiculous. It is normal for adult dogs to NOT want to play with strange adult dogs and it is normal for them to correct each other. It amazes me that people get upset when a dog raises a lip or growls - they're dogs - how else are they suppose to communicate (especially when another dog ignores the subtle posturing!)???
I have been having issues with Dodger (air-snapping) and I went to behavioural counselling where my trainer reassured me that Dodger's behaviour is appropriate. He merely wants to protect his space bubble and does not accept bad manners from puppies/dogs. I still take Dodger to the park at off-peak hours and most importantly, I keep moving - so the dog and Dodger only have a quick sniff. I would teach your dog to watch you automatically when other dogs are around - and to watch you when you tap her bum. A lot of dogs find that they do not enjoy dog parks as adults so perhaps play dates with dog she knows is best for her! I know Dodger would prefer that!
I can understand your need to correct this - it is too easy for people to get upset and have an "aggressive" dog PTS. As much as we know that it is appropriate dog behaviour, it doesn't stop human beings from freaking out!

The best books I have come across are "Click to Calm: Healing the aggressive dog" by Emma Parsons, "Fight!" by Jean Donaldson and "The Culture Clash" by Jean Donaldson...

Lissa
April 11th, 2006, 12:49 PM
I feel that muzzles make a situation worse. If you do want to use a muzzle, the cage one's are best - but they would only be for your piece of mind (ie: knowing that she won't hurt another dog). Remember dog's do not miss, if they want to hurt someone they will... I'm not sure if this is exactly accurate but dogs can bite 3 times a second (or something extreme like that) - and as such, they have a tremendous amount of natural control/inhibition when it comes to snapping/biting!!

jawert1
April 11th, 2006, 12:50 PM
Well, I know she doesn't like it, but she's a good girl when I put it on and knows she'll get peanut butter biscuits (OMH makes the best) when it comes off, so emotional trauma, not really. Does she get fussier some days than others about it, absolutely. She has not, however, had any regression in training (going in the house, shredding anything, etc) so I take it as a good sign. That and in order to get her used to it, I'd put it on her in the house only for a few minutes at a time, then taking it off and upping the time. Might be a good way to start if you're looking at that method. Oh and I shredded one of my tshirts and made lil strips that i sewed around the straps (like nosebands on horse halters/bridles) so it didn't smell so foreign to her and she seemed to appreciate that.

Prin
April 11th, 2006, 02:11 PM
What I would do in your situation is just get to know your dog better. Jemma plays with about 1% of the dogs we meet. The rest, she either scares away with her growling or occasionally, she'll break out into a fight. Some dogs are just bitches, frankly, and you just have to know yours and see it coming.

Dogs are lovely beings, but they have personality, and personalities clash.

.unknown.
April 11th, 2006, 03:51 PM
yea, i undertsnad.

I suppose living with a dog like Luna -- who is practically MUTE, and as laid back as a sloth, has gotten me a litlle suprised with Suzie's super intense personality... I love them both dearly, don't get me wrong. I am just adjusting to her learning styles and such.

I always joke about Suzie with my BF, "It's the Suzie show, ALL SUZIE ALL THE TIME" hehe she's just so intense.

i still wouldn't trade her for the world. thanks for the support guys