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Slaughter begins

chico2
March 25th, 2006, 09:56 AM
Today I have a really sick feeling of sadness,today the blood-bath is starting:sad:
I would like to say sorry,to the 335.000 young seals,unable to escape the pain and horror inflicted upon them,simply because they were unfortunate enough to be born with beautiful fur:sorry:

happycats
March 25th, 2006, 10:33 AM
I heard Chico, How awful!!
Actually I watched that special news spot on Global about it , and the reporter talked to all parties, the hunters, the town, and the activists.
And after hearing all sides, I still TOTALLY DISAGREE with the hunt!!

It's a tradition, one said I wish beating your head in was (I thought )
It brings in extra income, cause were're such a poor town, said another Move to a city and get a real job (I thought)seriously, if the town I lived in had no jobs, I'd move!! Not to mention, Canada has one of the best social systems in the world, so you don't need to kill anything to live!
they eat all our fish ..ummmm...no...you fisherman (part time seal killers) and your overfishing is whats causing a serious decline in the fish population!

How can we as a country, look down on Spain for their bullfighting, and China for other animal cruelties, when we are no better (if not worse) with our the seal slaughter ??!!
The rest of the world is begging us to stop! And have threatened boycott our products!! For gods sake enough is enough, stop the scenseless slaughter!!!!

Rick C
March 25th, 2006, 10:33 AM
I'm not a fan of the seal hunt and won't defend it . . . . . but I have a hard time condemning it as well when I sit in the heart of cattle country only 20 minutes from a Cargill plant that kills 3,500 cows EVERY DAY . . . . 1.3 million per year.

If we condemn one thing are we also obligated to condemn similar things?

Rick C
www.goldentales.ca

Golden Girls
March 25th, 2006, 10:36 AM
Once again greed, vanity and the right to torture helpless animals has begun. *Shame on Canada*. I wonder when "the sealing license buy-back plan" gets refused what will be their excuse then - their rights to entertainment!
http://www.hsus.org/press_and_publications/press_releases/mccartney_statement_start_2006_seal_hunt.html

happycats
March 25th, 2006, 10:41 AM
I'm not a fan of the seal hunt and won't defend it . . . . . but I have a hard time condemning it as well when I sit in the heart of cattle country only 20 minutes from a Cargill plant that kills 3,500 cows EVERY DAY . . . . 1.3 million per year.

If we condemn one thing are we also obligated to condemn similar things?

Rick C
www.goldentales.ca

I understand what you say Rick, but the cows are slaughtered for food, and they are raised specifically to be food.

The Seals are wild, not raised for human consumption, they are also killed for their pelts, and the way in which they are killed is horrific!! They are baby seals, who are to young to even fear man, and just look up at the "seal killers" with their big trusting eyes, before being whacked!!

Also the rest of the world is begging Canada to stop it, and threatening to boycott our products, why would we as a peacefull nation want to anger and upset the rest of the world!!?? Just so a very very small group of people can carry on a barbaric "tradition"?? And the majority of this country is against the hunt, so I don't understand why it continues!

Golden Girls
March 25th, 2006, 10:43 AM
Well then Rick you either eat the cow or don't. I personally do not eat meat but even if I were to - at the least the animal is getting killed to feed you!!! But for fur - are you serious?

With an attitude like yours though - it's a no wonder 35,000 cows die daily and will no doubt will continue to live horrific lives. Let's just agree to say hell with all animals - we breed them to use and dispose of - however we want ...

marko
March 25th, 2006, 11:46 AM
Let`s be gentle in this thread folks...or it will be closed

``Culture`` and tradition (in relation to and often to the detriment of animals) are deeply rooted and very personal.....

Seal hunt in Canada
Bullfighting in Spain and Mexico
Foxhunts in England and Elsewhere
etc.
etc.

This is a pet lover`s board - but in the off topic forums we can talk about anything in a civilized way

Golden Girls
March 25th, 2006, 01:12 PM
ok I do apologize for my strong opinion. I'm sorry - I do feel that people have a right to chose what they eat but to compare it to seal hunt for fur ...

We cannot and do not have a right to even speak out, judge or be offended by Bullfighting in Spain or Foxhunts in England when our own country allows "culture and tradition" to go on legally by clubbing, shooting and skinning animals alive for their pelts.

Being a pet lover's board - here's a pic of my two
http://www.pets.ca/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=15317&stc=1&d=1143311767
Empathy shouldn't just start and stop with your own.

But because you eat steak then what your saying is if your against puppy mills, BYB, pet store animals and are in rescue educating the world on abuse - your being hypocritical. And if so, then what is the answer? Isn't it better to at least try and speak out for some of the animals which is a hell of alot better then doing nothing at all!

Writing4Fun
March 25th, 2006, 02:38 PM
But because you eat steak then what your saying is if your against puppy mills, BYB, pet store animals and are in rescue educating the world on abuse - your being hypocritical.
Sorry, I don't get this part. :confused:

happycats
March 25th, 2006, 03:48 PM
I found this on the net, and thought it was fitting.

Seals

"But I can't ...
I can't swim!"
Liberty barked.


I didn't say a word. Instead, I used all my strength to shove her towards the deep, icy water. It was the only way to escape the two-legged enemies. What would I do without Liberty...I had to save my pup. She meant so much to me.

Glancing back, I realized they were just a few metres behind. I kept struggling to save my baby, to get her to the water.

I tried not to concentrate on what was in their hands; how many innocent lives had been torn apart? How many would be?...Hooked, dragged, possibly skinned alive...It's barbaric.

Liberty was killed before my eyes. We couldn't make it to the water in time. I tried everything I could to stop them. I stood between her and them, screaming, in desperation. It's murder of the defenseless.

chico2
March 25th, 2006, 03:59 PM
I am sorry,I did not want to start another debate,we already did that:sorry:
This time of the year,I always have a heavy heart,knowing what is going on,as I write this and there is not a darn thing I can do about it:sad:
Yes,it's a shame on Canada and us Canadians,what goes on in any other country,we probably cannot stop,but this outrage we could.
As for slaughterhouse practises,yes,it too is horrific and we could,like many other civilized countries improve the lot of animals due to be slaughtered,by implementing the new animal-protection law,but no,it will cost $$$:sad:
Calling the seal-butchery a hunt,is in itself a laugh,if it was not so very sad,the seals cannot escape,cannot flee to safety...
Maybe one day we will see an end to the annual bloodbath on the ice,but probably not in my lifetime:sad:

chico2
March 25th, 2006, 04:10 PM
Aww Happycats,that is very fitting,it's enough to make you cry:sad:

Golden Girls
March 25th, 2006, 05:59 PM
W4F: I'm not a fan of the seal hunt and won't defend it . . . . . but I have a hard time condemning it as well when I sit in the heart of cattle country only 20 minutes from a Cargill plant that kills 3,500 cows EVERY DAY . . . . 1.3 million per year. If we condemn one thing are we also obligated to condemn similar things?I took this as "if were not condemning the slaughter of cows therefore hypocrital to stand up for seals"

I tried attachment above - didnt work so re-attach here. I just wanted to say that pet boards don't necessary only deal with our beautiful pets but animal welfare in general - seals included. I can't imagine anyone wanted to harm them much less for their fur.

Katze
March 25th, 2006, 06:08 PM
Yeah,

I just read a report from some anti-hunt "fanatics" who are observing the "humane" hunt. Apparently, there are hardly any baby seals to be seen or killed as the ice has all broken up due to the warm winter and the babies drowned. However the hunt will continue by shootings.

Rick C
March 25th, 2006, 06:13 PM
Well then Rick you either eat the cow or don't. I personally do not eat meat but even if I were to - at the least the animal is getting killed to feed you!!! But for fur - are you serious?

With an attitude like yours though - it's a no wonder 35,000 cows die daily and will no doubt will continue to live horrific lives. Let's just agree to say hell with all animals - we breed them to use and dispose of - however we want ...

Maybe you should read my post again . . . . . I don't think you "got" it.

I was asking why we condemn one and not the other . . . . in fact, we should condemn BOTH even though government inspectors and veterinarians in BOTH cases say the animals are being killed "humanely."

I wasn't, as I clearly stated in black and white, defending the seal hunt. Or the cattle industry for that matter.

Believe me, if you ever went through a feedlot stuffed with cattle, it would give you second thoughts about your next steak.

Further, the USA bans this type of product and there is no market for it in Canada.

Europe banned the importation of white coat seal fur but why haven't these outraged populations, the receiving nations, European generally, made the importation of brown coats illegal? The earlier ban killed the white coat market dead. Dry up the demand and the effort to produce the product would likely end. Straight economics.

My comment was about rampant hypocrisy, particularly on the part of Europeans who could easily end this on their own end, not a defence of the hunt.

Rick C
www.goldentales.ca

Golden Girls
March 25th, 2006, 06:27 PM
I am sorry,I did not want to start another debate,we already did that. Maybe one day we will see an end to the annual bloodbath on the ice,but probably not in my lifetime:sad:Same subject maybe but I don't feel you should be apologizing. Many readers log in to pet.ca and at the very least these animals don't have to die in vain as well. Truth hurts and maybe one day Canada will put an end to this cruel and needless practice.

HappyCats: OMG - that was so sad but definately fitting.

Golden Girls
March 25th, 2006, 06:28 PM
Rick: The problem is - I did get it, and that was why I commented

CyberKitten
March 25th, 2006, 08:23 PM
I do not like the seal hunt but I am so turned off by billionaires coming into our region telling us - and they seem to make no distinctions - I am NOT a seal hunter tho I do know that many families will starve to death (They make maybe $30.000 a year if they are lucky) - will they Humane Society hire them and we can end this?

I hate the seal hunt, loathe it - I also loathe the killing of chickens but admit I ear eggs ab=and chickens.

They are not allowed to kill the babies (and yes, sadly a minority break the rules and that makes the headlines) - I save lives eey day and Paul may stuill remain my fav Beatle and I respoect his vegan lifestyle but Brigette Bardot, oy vey! I save lives literally and none of those ppl have any moral aithority to teach any of us anything even if I respect heir views, thet should nt hurt my community because a few ppl are hungry and have to feed their families.

I am afraid there is much too much exageration on both sides iof this issue and I an very confkicted about it. Would you go to Washington and tell them what to do? Or Isarel? Or Ireland? Anyway - I won't say more, I hate the whole sad mess! I am not all that keen on the war in Iraq (and where are thers ppl on this issue as Celine H-Payette pts out) - but tthat does not mean I call down Americans or boycott the country - and in this case, they are boycotting ppl who are vulnerable to begin with. Ya think they like to hunt? I have a patient whose dad is a seal hunter - they live on the poverty line. They hate whay he does and so does he but he is too old for retraining. It is what they always did - I don't know. There has to be a solution somewhere.

Why do ppl beliebe the babies arer killed? That is illegal as most Cdns know. Dpo ppl sstand up for cod? For moose? ((I wish they would actually but I digress)
\

I just hate the way they wage their campaign. BOTH sides!

Rick C
March 25th, 2006, 11:24 PM
Rick: The problem is - I did get it, and that was why I commented

You're right . . . . you've got a problem if you think your initial reply had anything to do with my post.

Doubly so if you read my second reply and still think that way.

Rick C
www.goldentales.ca

chico2
March 26th, 2006, 07:59 AM
Cyber Kitten,I am sorry,but I have to disagree with you,the fact is,babies are killed as young as 12 days old,most are 25 days old,as soon as they start losing their white coats.
The hunt yesterday is only a fraction of the whole season,the biggest hunt takes place off Newfoundland and Labrador in April.
The "hunters"get an average $70/pelt and 15,468 "hunting"licences have been issued.
Were it not for the millionairs protesting and showing the world what we are doing,restrictions would never have been made.In 2003-2005,the limit for clubbing harpseals was set at 975,000,today it's 335,000,so a tiny bit of improvement was made..
I doubt people in the world would take notice if I was up there hugging a seal-pup:sad:
I also do not believe people will starve to death,many people here in expensive Ontario somehow survive on $30.000/year,not easily,I am sure,but their plight will never excuse the barbarism of the sealhunt to me and the rest of the world.
I know about the unemployment-rate in NL and the fishing-problems and it's sad to see entire fishing-villages deserted,but it's a price to pay for overfishing and allowing foreign ships to rake all living things from the ocean,not because the seals need food to sustain their lives.

happycats
March 26th, 2006, 10:46 AM
I do not like the seal hunt but I am so turned off by billionaires coming into our region telling us - and they seem to make no distinctions - I am NOT a seal hunter tho I do know that many families will starve to death (They make maybe $30.000 a year if they are lucky) - will they Humane Society hire them and we can end this?
I beg to differ. Canada has one of the best social systems in the world, so no one is going to starve! welfare, child tax benefit, GST credits, free medical, free perscriptions, braces, dental, glasses, I don't see any one "starving to death" in this country!!



They are not allowed to kill the babies (and yes, sadly a minority break the rules and that makes the headlines) - I save lives eey day and Paul may stuill remain my fav Beatle and I respoect his vegan lifestyle but Brigette Bardot, oy vey! I save lives literally and none of those ppl have any moral aithority to teach any of us anything even if I respect heir views, thet should nt hurt my community because a few ppl are hungry and have to feed their families.

Yes they do kill "babies" they just can't kill white coats (so they wait a couple extra days, until thier coats change)

I am afraid there is much too much exageration on both sides iof this issue and I an very confkicted about it. Would you go to Washington and tell them what to do? Or Isarel? Or Ireland? Anyway - I won't say more, I hate the whole sad mess! I am not all that keen on the war in Iraq (and where are thers ppl on this issue as Celine H-Payette pts out) - but tthat does not mean I call down Americans or boycott the country - and in this case, they are boycotting ppl who are vulnerable to begin with. Ya think they like to hunt? I have a patient whose dad is a seal hunter - they live on the poverty line. They hate whay he does and so does he but he is too old for retraining. It is what they always did - I don't know. There has to be a solution somewhere.

I have no probelm with 'anyone' standing up for they rights of animals!!
The more popular the person, the better exposure, and I'm all for it!!
Who the heck are we to say they can't talk about it??


Why do ppl beliebe the babies arer killed? That is illegal as most Cdns know. Dpo ppl sstand up for cod? For moose? ((I wish they would actually but I digress)

They are killing babies!



I just hate the way they wage their campaign. BOTH sides!

The more people talk and fight about it, the more exposure it will have, and the better chance there is of ending this horrific slaughter once and for all!!!!

CyberKitten
March 26th, 2006, 02:31 PM
Alas, peoplwe - children mainly - DO starve to death in Canada. I wish that were not so and it much more rare than most countries but there are some very pooor people than those of us who can afford to be online look the way and prefer not to think about or pretend it does not exist. Yes, we have an excellent system but I work in it and it is NOT perfect. I have tried in vain to save some children whose parents had no home. Often, it is not so much starving to death as the result of poverty itself - it is just a miserable existence.

I did not not want to be tearful about tis not take up for the seal hunt so please do not misunderstand me. I just do not know why Maritimers and Newfounfalnders have been all luped together as terrible people who are doing this awful thing. I went on a mission with an eco group once to observe the hunt - no babies were killed. (I too never believe the govt stats entirely). I detest the notion of it all - I am just saying we have to consider the lives of the people who do it, they truly have NO other options, Yes, I spose they could move but at 55 with no other marketable skills, what will they do. And God bless Payl for suggesting a buy out but take a man's job from him (ad a woman's I dare say), and you ruin his soul - ppl need to work to feel like they are contributing, especially a man in this ethnographic setting.

My little patient cries and has regresed in her recovery b/c of this coverage and I suspect this is why I have been more coinsoderate of the "other side" this year. She cries bec ppl are saying her dad is a "bad man" - he is not, he is trying to feed his family and while maybe in downtown Toronto or even Halifax it is easy for a woman to find work, thee same is not true in the outports of Nfld. I have to admit I was prepared not to like her father when I knew what his occpation was but one should never make judgements and I am glad I did not. He sees himself as no dofferent than someone who woks with cattle or pigs or chidkens, other animals some of us eat. (I refuse to eat beef but that does not make me morally superior bu any means!)

What we need is a concrete solution - an industry (sort of akin to Barry Commoner's Small is Beautiful ideas) that would replace this indusrty. Then tho, we need to "fiddle" with the ecosystem to keep the cod fishery - in dire straits - no pun intended to the Northumberland Strait, lol - going and I am not an oceanographer so have no solution to that other than moving the seals somewhere because their herd has grwon way out of proportion to their place in the system.

Chico - I truly love your writings - but have you seen the babes killed? (Other than edited videos I mean) Have you been on a hunt? Please come and see for youyrself - it is really an interesting experience.

I did not mean to sound so emotional about this but I and others here have felt under attack for weeks here - it is especially tough when it comes from someone you idolize, lol (Paul M). And I would vote for the darn thing to be stopped tomorrow if someone would come forward with concrete solutions. I am opposed to it - you should hear the majority here who are not!

It all makes me ill. I hate poverty. I hate to see animals killed. And yes, there are some indutries I hate who clearly profit from the seal industry. But the avg person whould not suffer thx to some outsideres who are clueless about our way of life in the east. It's very frustrating to see it this way and I just hate the whole mess - as I said earlier - and I hate the emotion I feel. I would never kill a baby seal and I don't eat lamb either come to think of it but howcome no one marches for cod or moose or deer or even chickens? It sirt of reminds me of society holding those who are attrative in higher esteem and studies have proven thos to be the case - are we doing this in the animal kingdom too? (As much as I think seals are wonderfil, intelligent animnals - but so are pigs, many are just as smart as dogs yet why do we eat them - I don't eat pork either, lol - I do eat chicken tho, sighhhhhhhhhhhh!!!! If I had better health, I would look at being a vegentarian! Not sure I could be a vegan though.

Anyway - before I go offtrack ----

I understand your concern Chico, I truly do. I just do not know what to do about it. And I don't understand why the Humane Society of the US is lying (they listed 68 cos who did not even join the boycott- you never get ahead that way, they can tell the truth about the seal hunt and get as many supporyers, there is no need to denigrade Maritimers and utilize the tactics thy are, that just bothers me. It makes me wonder about them I suppose. And why doesn;t the Cdn Human Society do something - why is it ppl from outside come in and think they can brownbeat us? Why don't they use better tactics - less hurtful ones I mean. Boycotting seafood dioes not hurt the seal companiies - only the vulnerable who have a tough go even in "good" seasons and I heard today that the hunt is down because the ice flows - due to global warming - have made it more difficult but worse for the seals that get killed I think bec they are shooting them, much worse rhan clubbing which is instant!

Don't they realize these families have children watching this stuff.

Anyway, I've said enough!

Golden Girls
March 26th, 2006, 02:50 PM
I agree Heather and Paul McCartney has done a wonderful job education the public on this seal hunt and I'm thankful they are so committed to making sure this is the last slaughter of baby seals in Canada.

One important stragedy is by trying to close down global markets for seal products and ban countries of the import of sealskins. They have urged anyone who opposes this horrific slaughter to simply contact Prime Minister Stephen Harper and ask for this to end.

Pets.ca alone has 12,845 members, 308 users alone online right now. Hopefully it'll give people a clearer view of what's really going on here - which is simply horrible unneccessary slaughtering.

Katze
March 26th, 2006, 03:54 PM
If this hunt is so humane, then it should be no problem for the sealing lobby to show us footage of it in order to prove the humanity of it all. I mean anti-sealers are so obviously editing videos of seals beaten to a pulp dragging themselves along the ice. I would love to see the more accurate footage which the brave sealers should have no problem producing.

chico2
March 26th, 2006, 04:01 PM
Golden Girls,since the largest importers of Seal-pelts is China and Russia,I doubt anything will ever change.
I wish we could stop doing business with China period,their human rights and animal rights issues are horrendous,but billions of $$$ are involved so that will never happen:sad:
Harper would not even consider banning cat/dog fur from China,like most modern nations have,what makes you think he would ever ban the seal-hunt,it's not going to happen:sad:
I always have a sigh of relief once this horror is over for this spring,only to be followed by the annual bear-hunt,where hundreds of baby-bears are orphaned.
I wish that a time would come,when we will let our wild-life live in peace,let nature take it's course,without the horrors of guns,crossbows and violent killings of our precious wildlife.

CyberKitten
March 26th, 2006, 06:46 PM
I too wish the sealers would do that - we could see what they do wrong and right and then but it is all such a political game now. The "sealers" of course have no means to make videos so they;d have to rely on someone else - you think someone who makes what they do can afford that. Maybe the lobby that buys the seal pelts tho - and that is who we should be targeting. I refused a seal "toy" once - not a wise thing to do here but I am unafraid of being in the minority. There are many Atlantic Canadians opposed to it so maybe if we can find a prominent Maritimer. I have to say tho that Great Big Sea has been very upset by Mccarthy and wrote such on a blog by one of their members - they would fear losing their base of support suppose.

I just hate to see the slaughter and with the ice caps so few this year, they are shooting them and that is even more horrendous in the manner the vets at the vet school at least approved of.

But it hurts to be cast in with that lot by people like even one of my music idols who does not even understand the geography. (On CNN, he said he was in Nfld when he was in PEI), I know that is quibbling a bit but when I take part in a campaign - and I have done many - I research it thoroughly first.

I was surprised actually that someone like Harper who loves cats would have opted to allow the fur trade in China - it boggles the mind doesn't it.

Anyway - that's it on this topic. It seems there is little I can do to change not only the nasty hunt but also the policies of a well funded anti campaign that seems to hate everyone who even lives where it happens. If I were then, I would befriend the population and find the supporters. That would work wonders!!! (But they think if they bring in big names and tell ppl off, that'll work - not here it won't!!) It's too bad because with that money, they could be so much more effective.

BMDLuver
March 26th, 2006, 07:14 PM
This topic grows rather tiresome each year. So far I've stayed out of it but now I won't. I have been there for the seal hunt.. I have seen them killed with one swift blow. I have seen them meet their quota. I have seen the pelt be used, the blubber be used and the seal fins made into pies. This is not different than hunting with a cross bow yet I don't see all of you getting bent out of shape during the annual deer hunting season. It's a way of life for many and many depend on this way of life to survive.. both fisherman and seal hunters. Seals get killed, fish multiply and provide a livelyhood.. someone has to lighten the seal load.. they are definitely not going to be extinct. Cod is suffering as a result of the seals. Walk a mile in someone's shoes who makes a living from fishing and perhaps you will view it differently. You can argue with this point of view til you are blue in the face and you can make your little plackards and march the shores.. the seal hunt will continue, it's a way of life.

toby's tracy
March 26th, 2006, 08:25 PM
This topic grows rather tiresome each year. So far I've stayed out of it but now I won't. I have been there for the seal hunt.. I have seen them killed with one swift blow. I have seen them meet their quota. I have seen the pelt be used, the blubber be used and the seal fins made into pies. This is not different than hunting with a cross bow yet I don't see all of you getting bent out of shape during the annual deer hunting season. It's a way of life for many and many depend on this way of life to survive.. both fisherman and seal hunters. Seals get killed, fish multiply and provide a livelyhood.. someone has to lighten the seal load.. they are definitely not going to be extinct. Cod is suffering as a result of the seals. Walk a mile in someone's shoes who makes a living from fishing and perhaps you will view it differently. You can argue with this point of view til you are blue in the face and you can make your little plackards and march the shores.. the seal hunt will continue, it's a way of life.

I have been trying to think of how to say this so eloquently all day. Thank you, BMDLuver.

LM1313
March 26th, 2006, 10:20 PM
My little patient cries and has regresed in her recovery b/c of this coverage and I suspect this is why I have been more coinsoderate of the "other side" this year. She cries bec ppl are saying her dad is a "bad man" - he is not, he is trying to feed his family and while maybe in downtown Toronto or even Halifax it is easy for a woman to find work, thee same is not true in the outports of Nfld. I have to admit I was prepared not to like her father when I knew what his occpation was but one should never make judgements and I am glad I did not. He sees himself as no dofferent than someone who woks with cattle or pigs or chidkens, other animals some of us eat.

But couldn't you imagine the same reaction from the child of a puppy miller? "People think my daddy's a bad man, but I know he's not because he's such a good daddy!" Puppy millers aren't twirling black mustaches or cackling evilly from the shadows either. They "just" do horrible things . . . and not even maliciously. THOUGHTLESSLY. I'll bet if you met them without knowing their occupation many of them would seem like nice people who see their dogs only as "livestock".

Killing anything for its fur is immoral, as far as I'm concerned, as is buying fur unless a) it came from an animal that was slaughtered for its meat anyway or b) you need a functional cold weather parka and can't find a synthetic alternative. What's wrong with us that we see an animal and think "It's so beautiful . . . I know, I'll kill it! Guess how many minks went into this coat! Yay!"?

The way many farm animals are treated is also immoral. But just because that cruelty is accepted doesn't mean that accepting animal cruelty--of any type--is okay. If people are angry about seals today and not cattle--well, at least they're angry about something, and maybe tomorrow they'll learn more about beef. To dismiss their opinions because "Oh, you don't have any problem with FARM animals" would be like looking down on those trying to help the Katrina victims when tens of thousands of kids literally starving to death every day. Or, I'm sure you've come across this, being one of those people who "can't understand why people care so much about ANIMAL abuse when there are PEOPLE suffering, OMG". If someone is trying to help someone, anyone in need, then GOOD ON THEM. A small step to help is better than no step.

Edit to say that trying to help impoverished communities so they have more job opportunities is important too, of course. But, frankly, I don't think being impoverished makes it any more acceptable that someone can whack a seal to death and think it's okay. Those people in China selling dog and cat fur as "wild dog fur" are poor too . . . They're still wrong to do it.

~LM~

Prin
March 26th, 2006, 10:40 PM
My main problem with people interfering is that they always seem to kill the fittest. Like hunters score points with their buddies if they kill the biggest, strongest, oldest males. That's not natural. If we followed natural selection and didn't kill just for the sake of killing and actually used every part of the animal, I'd be for it. Regardless of how inhumane it is, it is human nature. We're not obligate herbivores.

However, it's getting all messed up. We've been tampering with the world's ecosystems for so long now, that everything is wacky and out of balance.

But, since we're such a "smart" species and we have to "help" everybody else out, I don't understand why we can't think of nicer ways of doing it.

happycats
March 27th, 2006, 08:31 AM
I guess the sad fact is, that this is called "pets.ca" and some here only care about their "pets", and not all animals ! :sad:

Anyone who thinks the seal hunt is "okay" must also think it's okay for China to skin dogs alive for their pelts, because really , what's the difference??
It's a "way of life" and a "tradition" for them too, no? ! It's all about the money really for both!! (At least China eats the dog after)

And Chico, I for one Thank you for bringing this topic up every year!!! It' all about awareness and education, and speaking out, that's what helps make change!!

HunterXHunter
March 27th, 2006, 01:49 PM
It's a tradition, one said I wish beating your head in was (I thought )
It brings in extra income, cause were're such a poor town, said another Move to a city and get a real job (I thought)seriously, if the town I lived in had no jobs, I'd move!! Not to mention, Canada has one of the best social systems in the world, so you don't need to kill anything to live!
they eat all our fish ..ummmm...no...you fisherman (part time seal killers) and your overfishing is whats causing a serious decline in the fish population!



We should have a human-hunt each year and make it a tradition as well. This is how it works: We put some seal hunters & a few random convicted animal abusers into the lion's den of the local zoo. It will be a week-long event (pfff, like they'll even survive that long :rolleyes: ).

Here is the justification:
keeps our zoos in business ; imagine the money saved from not having to buy food for lions for an entire week!
controls the population ; the Earth is starting to get a bit crowded, so this will help control our population
what comes around, goes around ; these people have hurt/killed animals at one time or another so they're just getting what's coming to them. And should they survive the week-long ordeal, then I'm sure the experience will make them a new (possibly better) person

:evil: :D

happycats
March 27th, 2006, 02:18 PM
We should have a human-hunt each year and make it a tradition as well. This is how it works: We put some seal hunters & a few random convicted animal abusers into the lion's den of the local zoo. It will be a week-long event (pfff, like they'll even survive that long :rolleyes: ).

Here is the justification:
keeps our zoos in business ; imagine the money saved from not having to buy food for lions for an entire week!
controls the population ; the Earth is starting to get a bit crowded, so this will help control our population
what comes around, goes around ; these people have hurt/killed animals at one time or another so they're just getting what's coming to them. And should the survive the week-long ordeal, then I'm sure the experience will make them a new (possibly better) person

:evil: :D



LOL.....I love the way you think!!

Writing4Fun
March 27th, 2006, 02:29 PM
This is really interesting. In a previous thread about people who "don't know any better" (i.e. how to treat their pets properly, the way we all do ;) ), everyone was getting all jumpy about being more understanding, treating people nicely, you can't blame people if they don't know any better, etc... Yet, in this thread, when someone mentions that these people are only doing what they've been taught how to do for generations, doing the only thing they know how to do to support their families, etc..., they're being met with cries for the death penalty or, at the very least, equally brutal treatment of the offenders. Just an observation...

happycats
March 27th, 2006, 02:38 PM
This is really interesting. In a previous thread about people who "don't know any better" (i.e. how to treat their pets properly, the way we all do ;) ), everyone was getting all jumpy about being more understanding, treating people nicely, you can't blame people if they don't know any better, etc... Yet, in this thread, when someone mentions that these people are only doing what they've been taught how to do for generations, doing the only thing they know how to do to support their families, etc..., they're being met with cries for the death penalty or, at the very least, equally brutal treatment of the offenders. Just an observation...

I guess it's because I believe they "do" know better!! the rest of the counrty and the world have been telling them how wrong it if for years!!! Many many people have been speaking to them, asking why, begging them to stop every year, and every year they continue to do it!
Like I said before, they don't need to do this to support their families, Canada has a wonderful social system in place, so they don;t have to do this!
They do it because they want to! They do it for greed!!!

I just want to know why no one has answered my question;
Anyone who thinks the seal hunt is "okay" must also think it's okay for China to skin dogs alive for their pelts, because really , what's the difference??

Writing4Fun
March 27th, 2006, 02:49 PM
There is no difference. It's the exact same situation. I really don't believe they do it for greed. I don't think our country's social system is that great. If it was, there would be no poverty, no homelessness. The majority of them are natives, who are doing it because their fathers did it, and their fathers before them did it, and their fathers before them, and so on... Just like in China. This is a cultural thing. They've been doing it forever. We think it's wrong. They don't.

I'm just playing devil's advocate here. I don't like the seal hunt either. But I think it's unfair to say that these people are doing it out of greed. Until we've lived their lives, walked a mile in their shoes, how are we to know what they're thinking, feeling?

Rick C
March 27th, 2006, 03:36 PM
Like I said before, they don't need to do this to support their families, Canada has a wonderful social system in place, so they don;t have to do this!
They do it because they want to! They do it for greed!!!

The social system, rewarding seasonal workers, is what keeps them at it in all likelihood.

You can probably work a few weeks of the year sealing, a few more months doing other fishery stuff and spend the rest of the year on the dole. Not saying that definitely happens with those folks but its certainly something the rest of Canada THINKS happens. . . . . and resents it as well.

Heck, my own worthless uncle, same age as me, has spent 30 years doing the same thing, working the road crews in the summer and collecting pogy through the winter. . . . . . and, when you think about it, what's the incentive for him to change if he's happy on the marginal fringe of materialism?

Pull the rug on seasonal pogy and these people might be moving to Alberta with the rest of the Maritime hordes, working full time as fabulously paid rig pigs on the flat, dusty prairie . . . . or some other such equivalent in Ontario.

Maritimers have a great attachment to their home though.

The controversial riddle of the day: If you can't make a living from the sea in the Maritimes, should the rest of Canada be paying you to stay there? And is the social system, therefore, propping up the sealing industry? Is that a myth or the truth?

Rick C
www.goldentales.ca

chico2
March 27th, 2006, 03:50 PM
W4F.I would not say skinning cats/dogs alive for their fur is a cultural thing in China,it has nothing to do with culture,only supply and demand and $$$.
Someone is getting rich doing this,but most often it's not the people doing the deed.
Canada accepts the practise and buys the fur,because it's big business,never mind if it is morally,ethically very wrong:sad: As long as there is buyers,the killings will go on.
Also,I am not sure what you mean with natives,are you talking about Canadian Indians???
They are allowed to kill,10.000 seals and yes,they use every part of the seal,the other hunters discard the carcasses,they only want the $70 fur.
Just because something has been done for 100yrs,does not make it ok today,the world is a different place today,from what it was 100yrs ago,we have evolved.

Happy,I have no boundarys when it comes to loving animals.
I love my cats and they have the best life I can give them,but I am also concerned and love all animals,birds and whatever we share this earth with.
Inflicting horrible pain and suffering on any creature,helpless to defend themselves,is just wrong,there is no buts about it,in 2006 we should be beyond using cruelty to end anyones life.

Writing4Fun
March 27th, 2006, 07:43 PM
W4F.I would not say skinning cats/dogs alive for their fur is a cultural thing in China,it has nothing to do with culture,only supply and demand and $$$.
Their views on dogs and cats - the fact that they see them as unfeeling, insignificant creatures not worthy of their compassion - that's the cultural thing I was referring to.
Also,I am not sure what you mean with natives,are you talking about Canadian Indians??? They are allowed to kill,10.000 seals and yes,they use every part of the seal,the other hunters discard the carcasses,they only want the $70 fur. Just because something has been done for 100yrs,does not make it ok today,the world is a different place today,from what it was 100yrs ago,we have evolved.
I'm not saying it's ok. I'm just saying that's why they're doing it. As for the guy who only wants the pelt - well, he's not doing anything illegal. If people really don't like what they're doing, they'll have to get their MPs to bring in changes to legislation - somehow. (I have no idea how, really. I've never tried.) That, alone, will change things. All the bickering and protesting and celebrity visits in the world won't do squat. Changing the minds of the average Joe won't help. If it's legal, they'll continue doing it, and there's not a darn thing we can do about it ... unless we actually "do" something about it.

Rick, those are all excellent points.

CyberKitten
March 27th, 2006, 07:52 PM
For the record, before I become more upset about this emotional issue, let me say again and again thatI LOATHE and HATE the seal hunt. That said, I think people need to understand the situation of hopelessness, unemployment and dire straits that lead ppl to work in an industry they themselves dislike. And with all due respect, anyone here is preaching to the converted - no minds will be changed here. I love ALL animals and no one who knows me would think otherwise.

I just have some trouble for the 1st time this year (It never bothered me before when ppl came in and told us what to d) but patronizing attitudes and tellingh ppl how to live their life does not go down well anywhere on this planet. We know it is wrong but the issues are not as simple as the protesters would have us believe and while they have many good points, they have been unecessarily rude, obvoxious and really patronizing. I have represented Canada abroad for Drs without Borders and if I said or did any one of those things they did, I might have been shot. They are fortunate we are a compassionate deomocratic country.

We Maritimers pride ourselves as the most hospitable - tho I guess everyone prob thinks that about their area, :) - but we have been sorely tested by protesters even calling those of us who would be supporters as being bad peole somewhow. Their objective is right, their tactics are wanting. As for the other side, the companies that make money and I suppose even the govts who get tax money from the sales need to be the ones targetted, not the poor (yes poor!!! financially) sealers who go out in this awful weather do perform this gruesome work. For most, it's all they know. Sad commentary but that's the truth and they see themselves as no different than a beef farmer or chicken farmer (and granted some of them are not too great either in how they care for their animals). Both sides need someone to mediate this - it is so out of hand and what really bothers me is the mistruths uttered by BOTH sides. (While it is tough to be objecive about this, someone has to be - there is no need at all for the Humane Society of the US (who kind of look down their noses at the local groups - you can imagine how well that goes over) never mid the rest of us peons - to lie about what restaurants are boycotting seafood from the region (Most on their list are not - they have plenty of material, it is like someone we recently fired for lying on his resume; and once somone lies to me about one thing, even a little matter, I wonder about the rest - maybe I am too ethical and perfectinist in my ways but they have lots of material to work with without resortinbg to that). Same goes for the other side. They do not need to call down the animal rights protesters - things are so much worse this year and it is escalating daily (You guys are not here so pls don't tell me you know what it is like). I am afraid someone will be killed before it is over and it won't be just starving children who slipped thru the syetm we are trying to save in the ER! I have never seen it this bad and it need not be - have they never heard of non violent protest???? Martin Luther King, the Berrigans, Ghandi? These men knew how to protest - or Saul Alinski! These US Humane Society ppl shouldf take a course from the Alinski Inistitute in Chicago - it might help.

They need the Cdn people on their side, we are not the enemy!!! We agree with them but they know so much more than anyone here that God forbid we actually suggest anything.

Sorry - I just loathe patronizing people and there are plenty on both sides of that issue out there on the ice. (I do not mean here - we are debating this as gently as we can I think).

I'd like to save every seal - maybe get on a boat and lock their way in a non violent Ghandi like way with like minded Maritimers. That would foirce the govt to take notice. Now, they can say "oh, it is just ppl trying to tell us what to do and alas, this yr, they are in part correct, sighhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!)

Hopefullly, this is my last post in this horrible industry!!

White Wolf
March 27th, 2006, 09:42 PM
This thread has run its course and will now be closed.