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Prin the food guru your opinion please

mastifflover
March 23rd, 2006, 05:49 PM
Prin you are very well versed in dog foods I know the good ingredients but you know percentages and all the more in depth things. Take a look at this food and tell me what you think I think it looks good but would like your opinion. Thanks Ontariogreys your opinion would also be welcome
http://flintriver.com/

wdawson
March 23rd, 2006, 06:45 PM
i looked and noticed that grapeseed oil is an ingriedient??????? is that the same as feeding grapes.....the veggie and fruit thread says grapes are bad...
i'm confused on this one.

mastifflover
March 23rd, 2006, 07:08 PM
I don't think that it is I am not sure but this food came recommended from some other Mastiff owners. I will ask tomorrow when I contact them I don't think it is available in Canada I have emailed to find out before I start asking a million questions

mastifflover
March 23rd, 2006, 10:35 PM
bumping up

Prin
March 23rd, 2006, 11:32 PM
I looked up grapeseed and got this:
Ultra fine oil expressed from grape seeds and is commonly used as a carrier oil in aromatherapy products and as a base for moisturizers.
I'm not sure if grapeseeds are good for doggies...

I don't like this food.. I don't know which formula you're going with but there's a LOT of wheat in the "puppy & adult kibble" one. The lamb/millet/rice one has a lot of rice... Two rices before the fat is not great. The only one that looks better is the fish and chips one, but even that one's main ingredient is millet, not fish or potatoes...

I also have to say that I don't like their website tactic- there are at least a dozen different websites for Flint. Most of them don't look at all like they're affiliated, and peddle food "facts" and eventually lead you to their website. It's very sneaky, and if they're that sneaky with their marketing stuff, imagine the food.

JMO... I'd go with something else.

mastifflover
March 24th, 2006, 07:30 AM
Thanks I was not sure I was looking at the fish one for a change. I did think that there was not enough fish and potato but I wanted a second opinion and you do know a lot more than me so thanks again. We will stick with what works for now.

Prin
March 24th, 2006, 12:58 PM
In what I've read (OntarioGreys says different, I think), the more grains in a food, the more gas is produced (grains ferment). So with a giant dog like a mastiff, that has to be a consideration. They also say the risk increases when the fat is higher on the list than the 4th ingredient, but I don't see how that works when you could have the same proportion of non-fats (quantity-wise) in one food, but less variety...

rainbow
March 24th, 2006, 02:57 PM
When I was looking for a dog food I checked it out but didn`t like the ingredients. I also agree with Prin about the website tactics. I also heard that it`s hard to find in Canada.

mastifflover
March 24th, 2006, 04:21 PM
Actually it is not available in Canada, but a friend was thinking about bringing it in as a distributor. This was strictly a business deal for him but I said if you are going to do it let me get some opinions. I have passed on your comments to him. He wants to bring in something that people will want so he says he will keep looking. If anyone has suggestions for foods they feel are great but not available in Canada let me know.

Prin
March 24th, 2006, 06:43 PM
Timberwolf Organics Ocean Blue! :) Check it out: http://www.timberwolforganics.com/cgi-bin/cp-app.cgi?&pg=ste_oform

I don't think I'd switch right now, but I know people who are at their wits' end with allergies and food, this food is ideal:

Low Ash White Fish Meal, Salmon, Potatoes, Sardine/Mackerel/Anchovy/Tuna Oils, Kelp, Alfalfa Leaf, Potassium Chloride, Carrot, Watercress, Spinach, Celery, Parsley, Fennel Seed, Blueberries, Cranberries, Pears, Figs, Thyme, Anise Seed, Ground Cinnamon Bark, Fenugreek, Garlic Pieces, Sunflower Seeds, Sesame Seeds, Apples, Taurine, Spirulina, Choline Chloride, Lecithin, Probiotics: (Lactobacillus Acidophilus, Lactobacillus Casei, Lactobacillus Lactis, Bacillus Bifidum, Streptococcus Diacetilactis, Bacillus Subtillus), Taurine, Mixed Tocopherols (a source of vitamin E), Lysine, Zinc Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Thiamine, Methionine, Carnitine, Niacin, Vitamin A Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Iodine Proteinate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Biotin, Folic Acid, Pyridoxine (a source of vitamin B6), Copper Proteinate, Selenium Proteinate, Cobalt Proteinate, Papain, Yucca Schidigera Extract.

mastifflover
March 24th, 2006, 08:07 PM
They do look excellent I will suggest he look into this. I think they look better than the solid gold. Which do you have your kids on. The amount per feeding looks about what Bud gets usually around 6 cups unless he is really hungry but he is not a huge eater my last guy made up for him though he was 8 to 9 cups and still lean for a Neo Mastiff. You are feeding 2 right how many bags do you go through a month?

phoenix
March 24th, 2006, 08:15 PM
I second the motion on the Timberwolf... If it were more available I'd really be considering it. We're on Canidae right now and we go through a 40 lb bag in about 3 weeks with 2 dogs (one 80 lbs, one 30 lbs and growing). But Prin, it is funny to me that you're critical of the companies' sneaky tactics when I find that Solid Gold is one of the worst for that kind of stuff. I read something recently where they were linking bird flu and duck based foods... seemed like a scare tactic to me.

OntarioGreys
March 24th, 2006, 08:30 PM
Grapeseed oil and Hemp oil are the 2 best fatty acid oils that are also high in vitamin E .

More info on Grape seed from Maryland Medical Center http://www.umm.edu/altmed/ConsHerbs/GrapeSeedch.html A lot of pet foods contain including Natural Balance.

Mastiffs have high incidences of bloat, so you may want fats and oils lower in the ingredient list according to Perdue University after results a 4 year study.

An unexpected finding was that dry foods containing an oil or fat ingredient (e.g., sunflower oil, animal fat) among the first four ingredients were associated with a significant (P=0.01), 2.4-fold increased risk of GDV. These findings suggest that the feeding of dry dog foods that list oils or fats among the first four label ingredients predispose a high-risk dog to GDV.


To learn more about their studies do a search "perdue bloat"

I know of several greyhound owners that have used (a breeds known for very sensitive tummies) and are please about it and strangely enough less complaints about not agreeing compared to many other premium kibbles. I don't know what version they are using.

To me the trout version(fish and chips looks good, a high source of omega fatty acids which should produce a fantastic coat, the sources would be trout, herring meal, Menhaden Fish Meal, flaxseed and grapeseed.

Info about millet, because it coarse groud is likely not a leftove waste product of human food processing
Did you know?
There is a theory that says that feeding millet to a dog helps repel fleas because this vitamin contains an active agent against them. Whether this is true or not, we don't know, but what is true is that millet is a grain that is packed with vitamin B. http://www.seefido.com/html/dog_beany_liver_casserole_reci.htm
Oatmeal is a whole grain and and is consider non-allergic, fish is very rich in proteins.

The puppy adult kibble contain 3 sources of meat lamb, chicken and fish, it is believed that having multiple meat sources, reduces the chances of delevoping a meat allergy(there are 2 types of allergy one your are born with and one that developes from ongoing exposure) the other item I like is sea kelp, which is loaded with natural minerals , the one big flaw I see is added salt.

Lamb/Millet/Rice Dog Food because of the rice splitting, whole rice with rice bran, the total amount of rice could be of the quantity of the lamb in the food and be the main ingredient, or be contain more than the the milliet but I have never seen any other brand of kibble available where lamb made up the greater part of the meat source where list first, and did not have grain splitting following. So possibly lamb is too rich to feed daily as a true first ingredient. by putting the millet ahead they use a better quality, more expensive grain than many of the other Lamb and rice kibbles, again ithas good sources of Fatty acids though not as high as the fish and chips.

The drywater is a dehydrated food they tend to be pricey compared to kibbles, it has a lot of wheat and rice plus added salt, I consider it to be the worst of the 4, though would be convenient due to light weight for say those that were hiking, but there are better quality types available.

If I was the one picking I would select the fish and chips formula, when it comes to the omega fatty acids there is not too many foods out there that could touch it, enough variety in the fish source to possibly prevent allergies from developng.

As far as ingredients, this is a fairly decent food.

Even if the ingredients look good they may not suit my particular dogs or yours. And that is true with every single food out there.

I have seen owners make their dogs very sick trying to find the ultimate food. Sometimes owners decide to continually keep trying different premuim brands hoping to put their dog on a better quality based on everyone elses advice or opinions that the food they were feeding was crap. When introducing new foods they keep throwing their dogs digestive system totally out of whack to find one that works and have the dog feeling lousy and possibly ill(if it does not agree) for a month at a time with each feeding trial, some may try 10 different foods within a year with none working, their dogs digestitive system in a constant of upheaval( vomitting, gassy, watery stools, upset tummy, not eating much due to taste etc) and be sick continually which could be harmful over extended periods of time, and worse than leaving them on a lower quality kibble. My advice to that owner would be get the dog back on the food that works, if you really insist on wanting to try other foods, limit the trials to only once or twice a year and if it doesn't work put the dog back on the food that does agrees and give the dogs system several months rest before trying another.

Prin
March 24th, 2006, 10:44 PM
They do look excellent I will suggest he look into this. I think they look better than the solid gold. Which do you have your kids on. The amount per feeding looks about what Bud gets usually around 6 cups unless he is really hungry but he is not a huge eater my last guy made up for him though he was 8 to 9 cups and still lean for a Neo Mastiff. You are feeding 2 right how many bags do you go through a month?I'm still feeding the Wolf King for now... My doggies are still doing really well on it, but if their allergies get worse (which Jemma's are starting to a little bit), the last kibble I could try is the Ocean Blue. I have no idea what their pricing is like though.

But Prin, it is funny to me that you're critical of the companies' sneaky tactics when I find that Solid Gold is one of the worst for that kind of stuff. I read something recently where they were linking bird flu and duck based foods... seemed like a scare tactic to me.Did you read it from solid gold? I can never find those things. The only things I find are sort of hearsay websites where they claim solid gold said such and such but never give a link to where they heard it. Flint is sneaky because if you're looking for info on ingredients, you land on one of their sites that looks like the mordanna food project site and pretends to be unbiased, and then if you get far into it, you end up on their site or on another site where you can buy their food. I've been to at least 6 different ones on the net that you would never link to flint at first glance. It's like they want us to say, "Oh, well, 6 websites say the same thing, and this food is exactly perfect to fit the criteria.":rolleyes: