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Is my English cocker spaniel puppy sick?

Hugh
March 10th, 2006, 06:55 PM
Hello

I bought an English cocker spaniel 2 weeks ago, she is 3 month old. I noticed the first day she was breathing quite fast, up to 80 per minutes, I figured that was the stress, later her regular respiratory rate seemed to be 40-45, never saw it below (that's always when she sleeps , I can't check her breathing otherwise) She also coughs when she wakes up after sleeping, usually 5-6 times then finishes with a choking noise as if she tries to cough something up. That seems to have gone away in the past couple of days though. I just observed her breathing very fast again in her sleep, 80 per minute. She was also shivering, shaking her feet while sleeping and her nose twitching . I saw her doing that before sometimes squealing while half a sleep. There was no reason for her to be stressed out this time, she had been playing before but nothing exhausting. She doesn't seem to have problems when I go out running short distance with her. I thought her hind legs seemed a bit weak I always have to be careful when I put her on the ground because her legs are not very strong if I dropped her she could get hurt , my parents have a jack russel, and it 's so much more muscular in the legs.

I thought she was urinating quite often as well 10-15 times a day, alot between 7pm and midnight sometimes 3-4 times in less than 3 hours , I spend my evenings cleaning up the floor. I told the vet about it on my first visit a week after I got her and he said after examining her that she has kidney and liver "hypofunction". After I asked more questions he said I should not be overly concerned about it, this could be a temporary condition he said and is not uncommon but can worsen if not treated to renal insufficiency and lesions. However I cannot find any info on this condition (symptoms are according to vet: all of the above without the fast breathing, forgot to tell him about it+ dandruff+runny eyes which she has). He gave me a homeopathic treatment for 2 weeks , must return in a week. No urine test was done. I contacted 2 other vets , one over the phone, one through my parents and they said they thought my vet's diagnostic was hastily made (because no tests)

Hopefully someone can help. This is a gorgeous puppy with a great personality but I won't be able to care for her if she has a serious condition that needs constant attention and expensive treatments. I am concerned she could have renal insufficiency, or juvenile renal disease which is lethal and requires
expensive treatment. So I need to know as soon as possible in case I need to return her to the breeder who could offer her better living conditions and hopefully return some of my money.
Thank you

jesse's mommy
March 10th, 2006, 06:58 PM
I would take her to a vet that would run tests.

Prin
March 10th, 2006, 10:12 PM
This is a gorgeous puppy with a great personality but I won't be able to care for her if she has a serious condition that needs constant attention and expensive treatments.Sorry but that is one of the risks that a dog owner assumes. I'm a student and I got a dog that ended up costing me over $2000 in the first few months. I did whatever I could to help him out, I didn't just dump him because he wasn't perfect.:(

Joey.E.CockersMommy
March 11th, 2006, 07:33 AM
I hope your puppies okay Not sure what all the symptoms mean. I have an adult ECS who is six. We were going to get a puppy but went for a rehome ex show dog instead. Anyways I did hear from two different breeders not to over excercise them (not that you are) until they are two years old. Actually one breeder said two years another said one year. That means no heavy running or agility until they are a bit older and I guess their bones and muscles have developed.

I hope it works out for you - I would love to see a pic those ECS puppies are so cure.

This is what you have to look forward to once she grows up. They never really lose all the puppy in them!

BMDLuver
March 11th, 2006, 09:19 AM
Sorry but that is one of the risks that a dog owner assumes. I'm a student and I got a dog that ended up costing me over $2000 in the first few months. I did whatever I could to help him out, I didn't just dump him because he wasn't perfect.:(
Not everyone is able to go into financial distress to help their pet. Being judgemental is not going to help the pup nor the OP.

I would suggest you contact the breeder and advise of the current situation. The breeder may very well offer financial assistance should it be needed for your pup. Also, there are some pet plans that you can subscribe to that help financially to cover costs and put them at a more reasonable monthly payment. Most vets know about these assistance programs such as Credit Care, etc. Take one step at a time and get a definitive diagnosis from the vet in order to help you make some decisions as to what is best for your puppy.

Prin
March 11th, 2006, 02:54 PM
It was the "and hopefully return some of my money" that got me going. Like it's a sweater that doesn't fit perfectly.

Hugh
March 12th, 2006, 04:54 AM
Here is a picture, you can see she looks scared, she was the shy puppy of the litter . I chose her because of the coat patterns, one of her sister looked exactly like her but looked a bit fat and was dominant. There were 5 puppies, 2 of which were liver/white/tan, all the others black/white and tan, one male only in the litter . Among the black, white and tan, mine and her look- alike sister weren't running as fast or at least didn't look as agile as the male and the other black/white and tan female. I now hope it's not because they had a problem. One of the liver /white and tan bitches would bite others ears and me too. Mine would roll on her back when you approached her or hunch her back when you wanted to pick her up. Turns out she now jumps on other dogs to play with them. It-s funny how puppies can have different personalities.

jesse's mommy
March 12th, 2006, 06:58 AM
She's beautiful.

mastifflover
March 12th, 2006, 07:16 AM
She is very pretty. Prin the person was just being honest that they could not afford a costly disease. This is a new puppy and if this is the case they want the pup to go to someone who can afford it. Anyhow I agree get in touch with the breeder and then get the proper diagnosis then you can make an informed decision. Good luck and keep us posted

Joey.E.CockersMommy
March 12th, 2006, 07:31 AM
She is really sweet - I really do hope it works out - but if you got her from a good breeder they should definately take her back. I think if the breeder sold you a puppy with serious health problems then definatley she should take the puppy back or at least work with you to help the puppy.

But pets can be expensive when you think they may be healthy things will always come up. Like I just had planned to buy a new dryer as ours as been broken since June - but instead the money is now going to go towards teeth cleaning and some extractions. Wouldnt you know the insurance I got for Joey doesnt include dental work. Oh well it'll be spring soon and we can hang our clothes outside.:p

By the way does your little cutie have a name.

BMDLuver
March 12th, 2006, 08:49 AM
She's beautiful.

Hugh
March 12th, 2006, 07:48 PM
She looks a bit different now, she is growing up by the day . She is very pretty
I get stopped by people in the street all the time.

I wish I could do something to get her to calm down in the evenings, she always gets more active after 8 pm , pulling carpets, biting table legs , doors etc, playing with magazines and toilet paper . I have to get up every 5 minutes to tell her to stop put stuff away, then she goes right back at it or find a new target.

jesse's mommy
March 12th, 2006, 07:55 PM
Welcome to puppyhood!!!

When we first got Jesse, she toilet papered the house, got into a couple of boxes of spaghetti and "shook" them all over the house -- she like the rattling noise and still goes crazy over pasta to this day, she ate countless wires on lamps, electric blankets, a treadmill and that list goes on, she got into the trash one day and got to the chicken wing bones and "buried" them in the couch hoping we wouldn't find them, she used to play with her turds in the yard and even has gone as far as to try and bring them into the house -- thankfully she outgrew that one, and this list goes on. Be prepared to have your hands full! But enjoy every minute of it because it's totally worth it when they give you kisses and cuddles (as long as the turd smell is rinsed out of their mouth). :D

Joey.E.CockersMommy
March 13th, 2006, 07:27 AM
:D I wish I could do something to get her to calm down in the evenings, she always gets more active after 8 pm , pulling carpets, biting table legs , doors etc, playing with magazines and toilet paper . I have to get up every 5 minutes to tell her to stop put stuff away, then she goes right back at it or find a new target.

warning this may not change Joey is six and he still plays with everything. In fact he finds things like books, my kids toys, toilet paper rolls and he brings them to his bed. I can usually find my kids winter mitts and toques in his bed too. :D He doesnt pull carpets or chew table legs but anything thats not attached to anything is fair game for him.

mastifflover
March 13th, 2006, 07:42 AM
Try lots and lots of play and a walk before bedtime but. But with that said she is still a puppy. Just look at it as your own exercise program

Hugh
March 15th, 2006, 06:35 PM
She still coughs when she gets up after sleep, I don't see much improvement as far as the housetraining goes . Everytime I think she is getting better, she poops (and tries to eat her stools) or pees all over the place again! The other night she pooped just when I got into my bed. She does manage to hold it most of the time because she often has a bowel movement minutes after we go outside. But still she keeps urinating a lot in the evenings. I hope this is not a kidney problem.

Also I can't handle her when she goes wild and crazy after her last walk at night. If a I slap her on her behind when I catch her urinating or chewing stuff she shouldn't, it gets WORSE. She drives me crazy sometime , I am exhausted at the end of the day and I find myself screaming at her or slapping her repeatedly and sometimes she
cries and I feel horrible but she comes righ back to the stash of magazine, the kitchen towels, the rug or whatever it is she set out to destroy. Eventually she collapses in sleep.
I hope this won't last too long, I want to stop taking her out after 10pm and no water after that either.

I am concerned about red bumps on her belly that come and go but leave marks , could this be a symptom of some liver or kidney problem ? Hopefully someone can help I want to keep her and go through all this succesfully, otherwise I would feel like I failed

jawert1
March 15th, 2006, 06:44 PM
Hugh, I'm going to say this as gently as possible, you need to not hit this puppy EVER again. Your bad day, your stress, your exhaustion CANNOT be displaced on her for doing what puppies do. Yes, they get the crazies, yes they chew EVERYTHING, yes they piddle and poo where they're not supposed to. You wouldn't dream of striking or shaking a human baby, so don't ever hit her, there are other training methods. If you feel that you're incapable of handling a puppy, and it's clear from your actions that you are, then it's time to speak to the breeder about taking her back rather than abusing her. Animals of any type require LOVE, PATIENCE, NON-AGGRESSIVE TRAINING, and the willingness to go above and beyond to do what's best for them and their health (which includes financial factors). You don't want to deal with a sick dog, you don't want to pay vet bills, you don't want to deal with her being a puppy, take her back to the breeders and don't get another until you a) can deal with it or b) get an adult dog that's already housebroken and settled (though they too will test your patience - so don't hit).

Tigger
March 15th, 2006, 06:57 PM
Excellent post Jawert. Hugh please consider the implications of what you have written as it borders on abuse. As a moderator, we cannot condone this type of treatment of an animal. Please seek guidance from a trainer or your pups breeder. Thank you.

Lucky Rescue
March 15th, 2006, 07:06 PM
Also I can't handle her when she goes wild and crazy after her last walk at night. If a I slap her on her behind when I catch her urinating or chewing stuff she shouldn't, it gets WORSE. She drives me crazy sometime , I am exhausted at the end of the day and I find myself screaming at her or slapping her repeatedly and sometimes she
cries and I feel horrible

Unreal. Did you do any research whatsoever about raising a puppy? If you have children and they cry as babies are you planning on "slapping them repeatedly"?? Why did you get a puppy if you don't want to deal with a puppy?

Do you know this is abuse, and that you could be charged if anyone finds out what you are doing to this defenseless little baby who depends on you for everything?

Does the breeder know you are abusing this puppy? Shame on you. Never mind what you paid for this puppy, please find her a home where she won't be abused for acting like a baby. And then you wonder why she looks scared?

Sorry to anyone who thinks I'm being mean, but this makes me ill and I hope this person is stopped.:mad:

phoenix
March 15th, 2006, 08:37 PM
Prin I think a couple of people owe you some hommage for your intuition.

Hugh, is this your first puppy? If so, it is more understandable that you are frustrated since you probably did not know how much work this can be. Still, it is NOT OKAY to hit a puppy. You are 100x stronger than she is (not for long-- one of the reasons why it is good to teach them to RESPECT you not fear you). Look up some things on this board, like Crating and Housetraining. My puppy is over 4 months old, and she still makes mistakes. My other dog trained in a week- they are all individuals and yes, they do things that you don't want them to do. When she is too much for you, you need to put her in her crate and walk away. If you can't do this, then please do the puppy and yourself a favour and bring her back to the breeder. If this is hell for you, your life will continue to be hell for a very long time. If you don't know how to train a pup, or have the patience to learn, then you and the dog will be unhappy in the long run.

You can learn a lot on this website. There are a lot of knowledgable people here who are willing to share that wealth with you. You have a fairly big shift in philosophy to make first, though.

I keep thinking of that little angel in the posted picture. Please don't hit her again just for being the baby that she is.

Prin
March 15th, 2006, 09:23 PM
Prin I think a couple of people owe you some hommage for your intuition.
Aww.. thanks. That means a lot. It really does.:grouphug: I've been trying to avoid posting in this thread...:o Jawert1 basically said all I needed to say in a much nicer way, so it's all good.

Joey.E.CockersMommy
March 16th, 2006, 07:16 AM
Hugh= Also I can't handle her when she goes wild and crazy after her last walk at night

Joey usually goes crazy after his walk, he'll growl and go all crazy and roll around on the floor, zoom all over the house then grab his stuffy and shake and from side to side like hes killing a wild animal - then he usually settles down and sleeps for a few hours afterwards. He will also do this after a bath or if he gets wet from being outside.

Anyways if this is similar to what your describing perhaps its a trait of the breed or perhaps something that dogs just do. Joey is six so either he is taking a long time to get out of the puppy phase or its just part of him. I actually think his "crazies" are kind of cute - I like watching him go all Nutso. :D

Hugh
March 16th, 2006, 10:35 AM
OK

the breeders themselves have told me things like don't let her bite you -even to play-, "they 'd get bitten back if they did that to other dogs so give her a slap on the muzzle"

for background info, I am in Europe and I know children are raised differently in North America, a bit of corporal punishment is still in use in Europe while in the US it's a big no no and is almost considered as abuse which sometimes borders on ridiculous. Sometimes children -and then dogs- do need a good spanking.

The bottomline is I need to get her to stop the kind of behaviour I described. I think hitting doesn't work at least with her, if I hit seriously she cries and then does it again anyway if I give a little slap she thinks it\s a game . I don't want to put her into a crate when I am busy, that's what the breeder said , in the crate when you are away or can't watch her. If I feel I am making her unhappy I will find another owner for her, but I am also with her 24/7, is she going to be much better off elsewhere?, not sure.


It would be more helpful to let me know whether I can stop giving her water from 10 pm to 9 am , leaving just a bit of water in her bowl overnight and during the day only before going out (5-6 time as day) plus a few sips in between just so her throat doesn.t get dry. And then info on the red bumps she has had on her belly. That's more important I think than giving me lessons telling me not to ever hit a dog.

papillonmama
March 16th, 2006, 11:07 AM
Hello Hugh,
I've only been skimming through the post agree wholeheartedly about the not hitting, the thing is, your pup will listen to you better without the hitting. Your pup will grow up to be a loyal, loving, caring, dog without the hitting. It's called positive reinforcement training I suggest you do further research on the subject. For destructiveness while you are away there is always crate training and of course making sure that she has tonnes of toys so that she doesn't get bored and decide to eat your home. I can't even begin to tell you that a pup who gets exercise is the happiest, and most tired pup ever, a nice long run in the park can make you and her feel better after a long day of work. Expect her to do maddening things, she's just a puppy after all, she doesn't know any better yet. You have to teach her,

I wish I could help with the red spots you should go to the vet, just to get a good checking out and some vaccinations, you don't want your puppy to give you or anyone in your home something contagious. I also think that water should always be available, a puppy can become dehydrated quickly.

She's gorgeous I just love cocker spaniels, they're very sweet dogs.

Good Luck.

Prin
March 16th, 2006, 06:08 PM
Slapping a dog around because you're frustrated at the end of the day is not corporal punishment at all, so don't even go there. And just because other people might hit their dog, it doesn't make it right.

How 'bout I smack you around because I'm angry at something else and see how you feel? Chances are you're not going to like me very much are you?

joeysmama
March 16th, 2006, 09:43 PM
Hugh, I'm a mom who never believed in hitting her children UNLESS they repeatedly did something that was very dangerous. When they went near the staircase (the one that was open to the basement--and very dangerous) I told them no and took them away. When they did it a second time I told them no again in an even sterner voice and took them away. The third time--if there was a third time, earned them a slap on the thigh. Enough to sting but not enough to damage the skin or leave a mark.

I'm only telling you this so you don't think I'm a permissive American parent and dismiss what I'm about to say.

Don't hit your puppy !

If you are going to discipline you want to do it in the most effective way and this is NOT an effective way to discipline your dog. I recommend seeking out a trainer, reading about dog behavior and being consistent. Our pup is 7 months old now and has stopped chewing up every paper in the office recycling box. He still loves to get a tissue, napkin or paper towel so we are extra careful about keeping those things out of his reach. Sometimes you need to puppy proof your house for their safety and your sanity.

The advice on these boards is very sound. I was not a knowledgable dog owner when I started here but I respect the members here and I can tell you that their help has been invaluable.

PLEASE PLEASE, if you plan to keep this puppy, for your puppy's sake, stay around and learn all you can !!!!