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Nature's Variety OR Canidae

Sadie's Mom
February 24th, 2006, 03:02 PM
Hey guys, I need some food advice. I need to switch Sadie's food again, because she's stopped eating the Nutro Ultra that I've been feeding her. I'm upset about that because it had worked really well with her. I know it's a kind of middle of the road food. I've decided that price definitely isn't an issue.

Originally I was thinking of switching to Solid Gold Just a Wee Bit, but it's fat content is too high. Sadie has definitely been packing on the pounds lately since we've been unfortuneately less active than we should be. So I'd like something with 15% or less fat. She doesn't have allergies that I know of, so that's not an issue. The biggest thing is the size of the actual kibble. For some reason she seems to have issues chewing the bigger sized kibble.

So now I've narrowed it down to Canidae All Life Stages OR Nature's Variety Lamb and Rice.

CANIDAE
All Natural Ingredients
Chicken Meal, Turkey Meal, Brown Rice, White Rice, Lamb Meal, Chicken Fat (preserved with Mixed Tocopherols), Herring Meal, Flax Seed, Sun Cured Alfalfa Meal, Sunflower Oil, Chicken, Lecithin, Monocalcium Phosphate, Potassium Chloride, Choline Chloride, Linoleic Acid, Rosemary Extract, Sage Extract, Dried Enterococcus Faecium, Dried Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Aspergillus Oryzae Fermentation Extract, Dried Bacillus Subtilis Fermentation Extract, Inulin (from Chicory root), Saccharomyces Cerevisiae Fermentation Solubles, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Mixed Tocopherols (source of Vitamin E), Zinc Amino Acid Chelate, Manganese Amino Acid Chelate, Iron Amino Acid Chelate, Copper Amino Acid Chelate, Cobalt Amino Acid Chelate, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Ascorbic Acid (source of Vitamin C), Niacin, Thiamine Mononitrate (Vitamin B1), Riboflavin (source of B2), Beta Carotene, Calcium Pantothenate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B6), Calcium Iodate, Folic Acid, D-Biotin, Sodium Selenite, Papaya, Vitamin B12 Supplement.


NATURE'S VARIETY
INGREDIENTS
Lamb Meal, Oatmeal, Brown Rice, Barley, Canola Oil (preserved with Mixed Tocopherols and Citric Acid), Menhaden Fish Meal, Dicalcium Phosphate, Flaxseed Meal, Montmorillonite Clay, Natural Lamb Flavor, Alfalfa Meal, Potassium Chloride, Vitamins (Choline Chloride, Vitamin E Supplement, Ascorbic Acid, Niacin Supplement, Biotin, D-Calcium Pantothenate, Vitamin A Acetate, Riboflavin Supplement, Thiamine Mononitrate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Ethylenediamine Dihydriodide, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Beta Carotene, Folic Acid), Sea Salt, Minerals (Zinc Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Zinc Sulfate, Ferrous Sulfate, Manganese Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Manganese Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Sodium Selenite), Lamb Liver, Inulin, Flaxseed Oil, Dried Enterococcus Faecium Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product, Apples, Carrots, Peas, Freeze Dried Lamb, Freeze Dried Lamb Hearts, Freeze Dried Lamb Liver, Pumpkinseeds, Ground Lamb Bone, Butternut Squash, Broccoli, Lettuce, Spinach, Kelp, Salmon Oil, Apple Cider Vinegar, Parsley, Honey, Blueberries, Alfalfa Sprouts, Grapefruit Seed Extract, Persimmons, Olive Oil, Duck Eggs, Pheasant Eggs, Quail Eggs, Sage, Clove, Rosemary Extract

The weird thing about Nature's Variety is that they recommend switching the protein everytime. Like rotating from Lamb, to Chicken etc. whenever you purchase a new bag. Is that really necessary?

Anyways, I think I'm leaning towards the Canidae. 3 meats in the first 5 ingredients! Is the sunflower oil a bad thing though? Any experiences with feeding Canidae?

Also, if there's another brand of food you guys can come up with, let me know!

Sadie's Mom
February 24th, 2006, 05:24 PM
Oops, sorry meant to post this in the Dog Food Forum!! :sorry:

Prin
February 24th, 2006, 07:14 PM
No it's not necessary to switch every time. It's hard enough to find a food your dog agrees with- if it ain't broke... ;)

They're both pretty good, but the Nature's variety has the controversial ingredient "Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex", that has supposedly been banned from human consumption and is being removed from dog foods slowly. The Canidae doesn't have it. The canidae on the other hand has sunflower oil, which we're debating in another thread in the dog food forum. I don't think it's horrible though. I don't think it's something that should deter you from buying the food, but if we find out more, I'll let you know.

All this is about pooling info, sort of an "us vs them" situation and it seems the foods we look at are only good until somebody hears something bad about them....:rolleyes:


As for fat, I think it would be far better to cut down on the amount you feed rather than the % fat. Your dog's coat quality and shine will suffer, as will her overall health. If you feed the Just a wee bit, you will have to feed quite a bit less than you were feeding of the Nutro. (But it's a tasty food, so you might have more luck getting her to eat it).

Prin
February 24th, 2006, 07:15 PM
Solid gold has a lower fat/lower protein food though, if you decide to stick to that route: Holistique Blendz (http://www.solidgoldhealth.com/products/showproduct.php?id=6&code=160) The fish in it might help keep her coat in better shape...

RaYne
February 24th, 2006, 07:53 PM
I've searched my butt of looking for info on ""Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex"". I can't find anything other than the info on mordanna.com.

The only food that agree's with Bubba.. Performatrin Ultra contains it. So I'm still unsure whether to worry about it or not. :(

Prin, have you found any other info you could possibly pm me?

Prin
February 24th, 2006, 08:11 PM
Nope. And mordanna doesn't look so good without references other than hints to "a german study". :rolleyes:

phoenix
February 24th, 2006, 09:03 PM
I feed Canidae and have been very happy with it. Great health, growth, coats, happy pups. I can't speak for the other brand at all. I did a lot of research before choosing a food, and for what I can afford and what is available in my area, it was the best choice for us. You could always try it out and see!

Dogastrophe
February 25th, 2006, 09:23 PM
I have been feeding my three Canidae for just about a year and have been pleased with the results. Coats look good, weight is being maintained, all still dive thier noses right into it.

rainbow
February 26th, 2006, 06:20 PM
I read at another dog food forum that Canidae has their head office in San Luis Obispo, California but their food is milled at the Pied Piper Mill in Texas. The article (supposedly from Solid Gold) at: http://www.anatoliandog.org/members/solidgold.htm
says dog food mills in Texas are bad. It also says that Canada doesn`t permit any dog food containing chicken or duck into the country if it`s milled in Texas. :confused:

phoenix
February 26th, 2006, 07:29 PM
well I don't know where canidae is milled, but the answer is in your post... if Canada doesn't allow foods from Texas with chicken, and Canidae has chicken, and Canidae is in Canada... all things being true, then it follows that Canidae is not milled in Texas.
this reminds me of being in gr 12 algebra again.;)
I like solid gold, but the site you posted has some suspect science there... saying that round up is a gmo and was inserted into corn genes... not exactly how it all works. careful what you read/believe on the internet!

Prin
February 26th, 2006, 08:18 PM
Actually, it says round up is a spray that is sprayed onto the corn and alters the DNA... Which isn't right either, but it's closer... I don't remember the mechanism of it, all I know is Monsanto = bad. :D

Hey, I found an article about Round up being linked to cancer and it explains round up a bit... To use round up, you have to have special GMO corn that is resistant to it. So everything dies except your special corn.
http://www.organicconsumers.org/Monsanto/glyphocancer.cfm

Prin
February 26th, 2006, 08:32 PM
I found this on the Canadian Food inspection agency website:

Agricultural Products subject to Import Controls:

Chicken, Turkey
Broiler Hatching Eggs and Chicks, Shell Eggs and Egg Products
Cheese
Butter, Margarine
Ice Cream, Yogurt, Other Dairy Products
Barley and Barley Products
Wheat and Wheat Products
Beef and Veal from Non-NAFTA countries (North American Free Trade Agreement)
Doesn't say they're banned, but very controlled and I can't find anything about Texas yet.

Prin
February 26th, 2006, 08:46 PM
Ok, I found something about texas... Apparently they had an outbreak of "Exotic Newcastle disease" in 2002 in Texas, among a few other states. It is a fatal virus for birds but doesn't affect humans. A bunch of countries, including Canada, banned poultry products from the states.
http://animalagriculture.org/poultry/2003PHR/phr_sp03.pdf

OK! I found a better source (sorry, I'm searching as I'm posting):
http://www.inspection.gc.ca/english/anima/heasan/disemala/newcastle/newcastlefse.shtml
It's from 2003, but it basically says: CFIA port-of-entry inspections prohibit the import and entry (commercial or personal) of certain live birds, poultry, poultry products and by-products from countries where END is known to occur.
They just don't want another outbreak in Canada (the last one was in 1973).

In case anybody wanted a good site full of links to some important stuff, I found this one from the govt of Canada: http://www.collectionscanada.ca/caninfo/ep063.htm
Check it out. (pets.ca is on it!)

rainbow
February 26th, 2006, 09:42 PM
Someone from the other dog food forum got a reply to the email they sent to Canidae. Canidae said their dog food is milled in Texas.

Prin
February 26th, 2006, 09:59 PM
Hmm... The link I posted for the Canadian govt had info from 2003, so maybe the ban has been lifted since then. Either way, our loving government would protect our pets from any harm, right? Right?:evil:

phoenix
February 27th, 2006, 08:07 AM
thanks for all the research Prin!

"Monsanto Round-Up weed spray was the GMO that was inserted into the genes of corn to kill insects."

This is the quote from Rainbow's site that I was referring to. It is the type of thing I read and then discount the rest of the article. GRR. Anyway, if Canidae is milled in Texas then I guess Canada isn't restricting them. I wonder how many of the foods we buy for ourselves are from there :)

Prin
February 27th, 2006, 11:28 AM
Discount away... :) That's what we're here for. All the important stuff (i.e. about sunflower oil), I have found else where anyway. I had to find better sources because I'm the one that found that link and posted it last week.. Usually, I don't like a dog food company telling me "facts". :D :o But solid gold is the one saying sunflower oil is bad, and the link was them saying why they think so.

Sadie's Mom
February 28th, 2006, 05:39 PM
So what's the verdict on Sunflower Oil then? Not bad, but not good either? I got lost somewhere along the line.

Anyways, thanks alot for all the help and research. I can always count on you guys. Esp. you Prin when it comes to anything food related.

I got a whole bunch of samples of different dog foods to try with smaller kibble and Sadie would hardly touch any of them! I don't understand how she could just go from being the worlds most gluttonous dog to being this picky. So I took her to the vet, who checked her out all over and gave her a clean bill of health. She's pretty sure Sadie has just matured and smartened up and has been spoiled by my parents who always slip her people food under the table. So that's why she's making a fuss about eating dog food. She thinks she deserves whatever we're having! So from now on it's dog food only.

The vet said to cut out everything else, except for a couple of healthy treats a day. She has about 2 pounds to lose, which is a lot when it's 15% of her body weight. But hopefully we should be able to get it off with a little bit of work and a lot of fetch.

Prin
February 28th, 2006, 08:21 PM
Sunflower oil as the first fat in the ingredient list is bad. Further down, after good fats, high in omega-3, like flaxseed oil or fish oil, or supplemented with omega-3 or flaxseed oil, would be ok... But the best is to avoid it if it bugs you. I posted another thread on sunflower oil if you want to have a look. I found some better links and stuff.

LL1
March 1st, 2006, 09:03 PM
Canidae is a good food.jmo but I would not pay much attention to anything written by solid gold

rainbow
March 2nd, 2006, 11:22 AM
Why wouldn`t you pay much attention to anything written by Solid Gold?

From what I`ve read in this forum, I thought they were supposed to be really good?

I`m still trying to decide on a dog food, and they were on my short list, so what`s bad about them? :confused:

LL1
March 2nd, 2006, 12:37 PM
They have had problems before with false claims.The ads are usually full of faulty science and slamming other foods imo,I think the quality is poor as well.I would never use it.

Prin
March 2nd, 2006, 01:13 PM
The stuff about sunflower oil is true though. I found a few other sources that stated the same thing. Taking "facts" from any food company is iffy, but in this case, they checked out.

As for quality, I have never noticed anything off in their food. Why would you say the quality is poor? Please elaborate.

LL1
March 2nd, 2006, 04:16 PM
It depends on what you are worried about in your food.Sunflower oil is a good source imo,menhaden fishmeal and citric acid would bother me more.Canidae is not my fav food,but I would choose it over solid gold and the natures variety posted.I also do not like lamb as a main source,and with multi proteins I would worry about allergy issues down the road and sorting out the cause.The maker of solid gold is not trusthworthy imo and been caught telling tales before.

Prin
March 2nd, 2006, 04:42 PM
Every dog food maker tells "tales", IMO. What's worse? Telling tales or having huge product recalls? Regardless of what a manufacturer says about anything, it's about finding out for yourself. Whenever I hear something, I dig deeper to find out what is really going on. Saying they're "not trustworthy" doesn't really mean anything without backup. WHY not? Do you have anything concrete, or is it just your own personal opinion? People think I'll get offended if they bash solid gold. It's just a food. If you have some serious info about them, fine. But somebody saying it's bad "just because" is not good enough. ;)

coppperbelle
March 2nd, 2006, 07:43 PM
Can you give specifics about problems with Solid Gold? What food would you recommend?

Prin
March 2nd, 2006, 07:58 PM
Sunflower oil is a good source imo,menhaden fishmeal and citric acid would bother me more.
Read this thread about sunflower oil. The sources are better and they all say the same thing. The ratio of omega 6 to omega 3 is way too high.
http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=24324
The rest of us are searching for info endlessly and posting all we find out. We're trying to help each other out here...

rainbow
March 2nd, 2006, 08:12 PM
1. So far, I`ve only heard good things abount menhaden fish meal. So, what is the bad stuff and where did you hear it from?

2. Sunflower oil is mainly Omega 6 and almost no Omega 3. Why are you not concerned about sunflower oil and the connection to cancer?

3. What is your opinion about Menadione Sodium Bisulfite (there`s a controversy posted under other threads)?

4. And, as copperbelle asked, "what food would you recommend, if Canidae is not your favourite, but you prefer it over Solid Golid or Natures Variety?"

5. And, what is your opinion.....AND anybody else`s about Innova?

Prin
March 2nd, 2006, 08:24 PM
My opinion on innova is that their regular food is ok, not special though, but the 42% Evo, to me should still be tested... I think that the % protein is too high and that there might be consequences as a result. I've never met a piece of meat that was 42% protein by weight.;)

coppperbelle
March 2nd, 2006, 09:10 PM
Innova is a good food although it is very high in protein. As a result some dogs have problems with it especially during the switch. One person who sold it told me it was the best food in the world in one sentence went on to tell me that his dog had bloody diarrhea because of the food. He said the switch had to be done very slowly.

coppperbelle
March 3rd, 2006, 07:59 AM
They have had problems before with false claims.The ads are usually full of faulty science and slamming other foods imo,I think the quality is poor as well.I would never use it.

I am still waiting to hear specifics of where you get your information on Solid Gold making false claims. I have done a search on the net and have found absolutely nothing negative about this company. I feed this food and if there is something wrong I want to know. As for the quality of the food what evidence do you have that the quality is poor?

Waiting anxiously for your reply.

LL1
March 3rd, 2006, 11:49 AM
Menhaden fishmeal is not for human consumption.It also is highly combustible and preserved with ethoxyquin.It is a cheap garbage fish to add to food.There was an FOI request several years ago on solid gold showing that the meal was preserved with E.I also think lamb is a poor protein source and prefer not to use it.Not sure if the info on the FOI request is still on the net or not,it was several years ago when I first starting researching dog food, probably 1999?The owner of Solid Gold was also arrested at one point and sentenced to 179 days in prison and fined $10,000 for mislabeling "natural" dog food.

I read what you have posted about sunflower oil, that is not a worry for me personally.Read more about citric acid in food and bloat risks.That worries me. Suggestions for food would be foods without menhaden or lamb.

As for my choices?I prefer raw or home cooked.Next would be canned.Bottom of the list would be kibble.California Natural Chicken and Rice is a good food.If you are ok with multiple proteins,and a richer food (not for queasy tummies)the regular Innova is ok.I agree with Prin that I would not trust Evo.Canidae chicken and rice is ok,I would pick that over regular Canidae.Merricks is ok too,anyone can have a recall.

Prin
March 3rd, 2006, 11:58 AM
Hmmm.... Wolf king doesn't have menhaden fish meal nor citric acid, so I don't see what the issue is. Their other foods have the fish meal, but then they are cheaper too. You get what you pay for. I still haven't found anything wrong with Wolf king, other than it might be a little grainy. But I'm still looking.

Canned is just obscenely expensive to feed a large breed adult dog. We'd have to feed Boo something like 5 cans of Merrick a day- that's about $115/week plus tax. No way. I don't even spend that on myself. And I don't have the time, the freezer, the money or the routine to feed raw or even cooked.

I'm glad we agree on the Evo though... So far it's mostly anecdotal evidence out there, but when the stories turn to Evo, it tends to get scary (liver failure, kidney failure, etc).

Just so you can see what I'm talking about with the Wolf King:
Bison | Salmon Meal | Brown Rice | Millet | Cracked Pearled Barley | Oatmeal | Rice Bran | Canola Oil | Flaxseed Oil | Garlic | Amaranth | Blueberries | Yucca Schidigera Extract | Carotene | Choline Chloride | Vitamin E Supplement | Iron Proteinate | Zinc Proteinate | Copper Proteinate | Manganese Proteinate | Potassium Iodide | Thiamine Mononitrate | Ascorbic Acid | Vitamin A Supplement | Biotin | Calcium Panthothenate | Selenomethionine | Pyridoxine Hydrochloride | Vitamin B12 Supplement | Riboflavin | Vitamin D Supplement | Folic Acid |

LL1
March 3rd, 2006, 12:07 PM
Did someone mention Wolf king?I was talking solid gold generally.

We all decide what we want to feed our pets.I am not judging what you decide to do.Its not my place to do that.I was stating what I feel are the best choices,kibble would be the bottom of the barrel.Great to go for a higher quality kibble,obviously,but still the bottom of the choices.

Hmmm.... Wolf king doesn't have menhaden fish meal nor citric acid, so I don't see what the issue is. Their other foods have the fish meal, but then they are cheaper too. You get what you pay for. I still haven't found anything wrong with Wolf king, other than it might be a little grainy. But I'm still looking.

Canned is just obscenely expensive to feed a large breed adult dog. We'd have to feed Boo something like 5 cans of Merrick a day- that's about $115/week plus tax. No way. I don't even spend that on myself. And I don't have the time, the freezer, the money or the routine to feed raw or even cooked.

I'm glad we agree on the Evo though... So far it's mostly anecdotal evidence out there, but when the stories turn to Evo, it tends to get scary (liver failure, kidney failure, etc).

Just so you can see what I'm talking about with the Wolf King:

Prin
March 3rd, 2006, 12:19 PM
Did someone mention Wolf king?I was talking solid gold generally.
Yes, but making general statements about Solid Gold when they don't apply to all the foods produced by Solid Gold is a bit misleading. I was just pointing out that not all the foods have lamb, nor menhaden fish meal and none have citric acid. A lot of people lurk here and try to learn about foods from this forum, so when I post something I try to be as clear as possible.

IMO, wolf king is one of the best foods out there, and I don't think people should be deterred from it by general statements that pertain to other foods.:thumbs up

It is VERY hard to find a food without one ingredient that is iffy. Some of the "natural" ones have beet pulp, or some other corner-cutting ingredient that we'd rather not see when we're paying $70/bag. For those of us who can't feed raw or cooked, this is what we have to do. We have to search and search and search until we find a food out of the very limited number of good ones that we are comfortable with. It's not just about opinions, you know? And there's so much misinformation and jumbly information out there, that it's nice to be clear.;)

LL1
March 3rd, 2006, 12:29 PM
I apologize if I was not clear.Maybe this will make it more clear,definitely did not want people to misunderstand what I meant.

I would not trust any food made by Solid Gold for the reasons I posted before.

The citric acid worry I mentioned,was related to the fact that it is an ingredient in the food that was in the name of this topic,Nature's Variety,and in the ingredients posted.It is a concern with bloat.I can post more if anyone would like to see that?

I would not use foods with citric acid or menhaden fishmeal,regardless of who makes it.

Lamb I try and avoid in all foods.

I do realize not everyone wants to take the time or money to feed the best.And I agree high end kibble would be better than Old Roy and Purina Dog Chow and Iams etc so it is absolutely a good step in the right direction.:thumbs up

Yes, but making general statements about Solid Gold when they don't apply to all the foods produced by Solid Gold is a bit misleading. I was just pointing out that not all the foods have lamb, nor menhaden fish meal and none have citric acid. A lot of people lurk here and try to learn about foods from this forum, so when I post something I try to be as clear as possible.

IMO, wolf king is one of the best foods out there, and I don't think people should be deterred from it by general statements that pertain to other foods.:thumbs up

It is VERY hard to find a food without one ingredient that is iffy. Some of the "natural" ones have beet pulp, or some other corner-cutting ingredient that we'd rather not see when we're paying $70/bag. For those of us who can't feed raw or cooked, this is what we have to do. We have to search and search and search until we find a food out of the very limited number of good ones that we are comfortable with. It's not just about opinions, you know? And there's so much misinformation and jumbly information out there, that it's nice to be clear.;)

Prin
March 3rd, 2006, 12:35 PM
I do realize not everyone wants to take the time or money to feed the best.And I agree high end kibble would be better than Old Roy and Purina Dog Chow and Iams etc so it is absolutely a good step in the right direction.:thumbs upIt's not about wanting to or not- at least not at this level. Switching from Iams to a better food is about wanting, IMO. The price difference is made up by fewer vet visits and feeding less.

Some people think feeding high end kibble is expensive, and I do it on a student loan budget- I doubt there are very many students who feed a $70/bag food, but I see it as a priority and I see the benefits. But raw, or canned, I simply could not afford any way I do the math. I know I don't control what goes in the kibble, but at a certain point, you just have to do the best you can with what you have, regardless of what you want to do. :thumbs up

technodoll
March 3rd, 2006, 01:35 PM
i think it's too bad that the general myth floating around is that "raw is too expensive / time consuming to feed". IF you take the time to acquaint yourself with the basic principles of raw feeding and source out your suppliers, it's actually cheaper than feeding high-end kibble. of course the initial investment of time is to consider, but so what? it's spending a few hours setting things up and voila. how much time is spent watching tv and staring at the crappy weather outside anyways? LOL

find source for cheap meat/ bones/ organs, buy in bulk, store in freezer, every night before bed take out the next day's food, let thaw in sink overnight, and for mealtimes just hand food to the dog. OK it's a tad more time-consuming than opening a bag of kibble and pouring into a bowl, but what the heck, our dogs are worth it right? :D

the operative is: dogs should eat 2-3% of their body weight of raw food per day (on average: some eat less, very few eat more). if you do your homework and find meat for $1 or less per pound, that is $2-3 per day MAX for a 100 lbs dog. Easy to stock up on sales and your costs go down to $1.5-2 MAX per day. So $60/mth for a 100 lbs dog for the maximum bioavailability food is a bargain, IMO. factor in the lower vet bills, smaller poops, less toys destroyed (they chew on their food, not toys), less need for supplements, etc... :p

there is NO reason and NO excuses not to feed raw, ANYBODY can do it. however if you CHOOSE to not feed raw, that's fine!! everybody has choices to make and be respected for it. buuuuut... we really need to dispell this myth that raw feeding is expensive and time-consuming, because it really isn't.... :pawprint:

Prin
March 3rd, 2006, 03:25 PM
See $60/month for Boo + $40/month for Jemma = $100/month. I pay $70 right now. When you consider that I get an average of $10 000 a year, spending $1200 vs $840 is very significant. So, no, raw is not affordable for me. That extra $360 buys me 10 months of telephone instead. :thumbs up My dogs already go to the vet significantly less than before, and already have small stools.

technodoll
March 3rd, 2006, 03:32 PM
well that's good then :) if they only eat one bag per month at $70 tax in. you don't give them anything else, just dry food? no canned fish, yogurt, cottage cheese, canned dog food, treats? cuz you have to factor all that in their food budget too, IF they get it. those supplements are factored in the raw diet $ allowance per day. although to be honest, i'm lazy and often buy waaay more expensive meat than #1/pound! maybe that's why i rarely eat meat myself... can't afford it, ha ha! :crazy:

Prin
March 3rd, 2006, 03:35 PM
I don't give them enough other stuff to significantly increase the amount... I mean I go through $15 in treats in over 3 months, and maybe 4 or 5 cans a year... Not much higher than $70/month.

technodoll
March 3rd, 2006, 03:37 PM
i really admire the way you can stick to a budget like that. i can't follow one to save my life!! :mad: sometimes feel so overwhelmed... i can't to go a petshop without wanting to buy everything in sight!

Prin
March 3rd, 2006, 03:38 PM
LOL Did I mention how much money I have in a year? If I don't stick to my budget, I'm sunk. Every penny has its place...;)

technodoll
March 3rd, 2006, 03:45 PM
someday when you're rich and famous you'll look back on these days and grin fondly while sipping a cold margharita by the beach!
:crazy:

Prin
March 3rd, 2006, 04:42 PM
lol do you think they have hot chocolate on the beach?:D

coppperbelle
March 3rd, 2006, 04:49 PM
YOu have not given me any evidence that the company (Solid Gold) gives or has given misleading informaton. I can't find anything on the net so the only word I have is yours. I have found many sites that recommend Solid Gold. The Whole Dog Journal also recommends it as a quality kibble. Blanket statements such as you made about Solid Gold should not be made unless you can prove what you stated.


There are a number of reasons why I don't feed raw and cost is not one of them. I am not convinced that this is the best method of feeding. Many of you may be but I am not. I won't debate the topic with you. I have done the reading and it is not what I want for my dog. I may one day feed cooked food to my pets but never will I feed raw.

My dogs eat kibble and are extremely healthy as are your pets that eat raw. That is afterall what we are striving for, isn't it?

LL1
March 3rd, 2006, 05:04 PM
It actually doesnt matter if you believe me or not.I just put the information out there,and I really hope people would do more research into what they feed their companions.That is what is important to me.

Did you do a search?The info is readily available on Sissy being charged.

The info on the FOI request would be harder to find,but was all through the dog world several years back.I will try and find it.

Here are two parts, from the FDA's website:
http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/ANSWERS/ANS00064.html

"The court agreed with FDA that Solid Gold Health Products had defrauded
customers of hundreds of thousands of dollars a year, and continued to put
animal lives at risk, deterred consumers from obtaining effective veterinary
drugs and endangered animal handlers and pet owners by exposing them to
disease."

"Sissy Harrington-McGill, president and sole owner of Solid Gold Health
Products for Pets Inc., El Cajon, Calif., was found guilty of the charge on
July 12 after a three day trial. Her corporation, also known as the Solid
Gold Holistic Animal-Equine Nutrition Center, was fined $10,000 and placed
on five years probation -- meaning that its operations will be scrutinized
by the court for this period.
Chief Judge Gordon Thompson, Jr., of the California Federal District
Court in San Diego, ordered Harrington-McGill taken into custody
immediately. He said at no time did she acknowledge any guilt and was
"totally unrepentant."



YOu have not given me any evidence that the company (Solid Gold) gives or has given misleading informaton. I can't find anything on the net so the only word I have is yours. I have found many sites that recommend Solid Gold. The Whole Dog Journal also recommends it as a quality kibble. Blanket statements such as you made about Solid Gold should not be made unless you can prove what you stated.


There are a number of reasons why I don't feed raw and cost is not one of them. I am not convinced that this is the best method of feeding. Many of you may be but I am not. I won't debate the topic with you. I have done the reading and it is not what I want for my dog. I may one day feed cooked food to my pets but never will I feed raw.

My dogs eat kibble and are extremely healthy as are your pets that eat raw. That is afterall what we are striving for, isn't it?

coppperbelle
March 3rd, 2006, 06:46 PM
They have had problems before with false claims.The ads are usually full of faulty science and slamming other foods imo,I think the quality is poor as well.I would never use it.

This is your comment from a previous thread. I wanted you to clarify what you were saying about the company.

You asked me if I did a search. The insinuation was rude by the way!

In answer to your question, yes I did a search on Solid Gold dog food. That is afterall what we were discussing. The article you brought up is about drugs that the company was once selling 16 years ago. You omitted to quote that part of the article by the way. It has nothing to do with dog food so I would never have found anything. The so called drugs were herbal remedies from what I gather.

I don't see anything about faulty science or slamming of other foods in your article. Where is that information?

As for researching what we are feeding our dogs, I have. I read everything I can find about dog nutrition. That is why I settled on Solid Gold, Wolf King.

Frenchy
March 3rd, 2006, 07:08 PM
Sorry but I just have to put my 2 cents here,Solid Gold is (for me) a very expensive and high quality food and I only heard good things about it.I think it's a little bit excessive to badmouth those type of food.I mean,come on,it's not pedigree!I won't even tell you guys what I feed my dogs now because I'm sure I would get 'trashed'.But we do have to go with our budget.It's not because we don't feed raw or drive 2 hours to get a certain type of food that we don't love our dogs.And I don't believe that I have more problem with my dogs health than others.Like I said in another post,I had foster dogs that were on Pedigree and Alpo for all their lives,I'm talking about 6-8 yr old dogs,the owners never had to go to the vet for health problem.And no,before you ask me,I'm not feeding that to my dogs.

Prin
March 3rd, 2006, 08:33 PM
Basically that link LL1 posted said that in 1988 Solid Gold put out unproven herbal remedies they claimed cured or prevented certain diseases and illnesses. Well. What else is new? How many herbal remedy companies do extensive testing? How many claim to have miraculous healing powers? Are herbal remedies sometimes taken as replacements for some proven, tested drugs to the detriment of the user?

Substitute "Solid Gold" for any herbal remedy manufacturer's name, and the story is the same. :rolleyes:

Frenchy, it all comes down to feeding what you are comfortable with. There are many things to consider in deciding on a food.:)

As for researching what we are feeding our dogs, I have. I read everything I can find about dog nutrition. That is why I settled on Solid Gold, Wolf King.Me too. Hopefully I won't find out anything bad about any of the ingredients, but we'll see. Like I was telling my man earlier today, even if raw is better, my dogs are so healthy and nobody can dispute that. They're fit, shiny, soft, with clean teeth, healthy skin, high energy, etc etc. Why mess with a great thing?

technodoll
March 3rd, 2006, 09:52 PM
Like I was telling my man earlier today, even if raw is better, my dogs are so healthy and nobody can dispute that. They're fit, shiny, soft, with clean teeth, healthy skin, high energy, etc etc. Why mess with a great thing?

it is NOT a "great thing". kibble is not a NATURAL diet, prin. our dogs and cats are the only animals on the planet that are force-fed these artificial, chemically processed cereal pellets that have a 12-month shelf life. look at their teeth, their digestive sytems and their basic instinct. they are hunters meant to hunt, kill, and tear apart prey in big chunks - not snack on a bowl of dry cereal pumped with artificial vitamins in order for their coats to be nice & shiny (why do you think 3/4 of your kibble's ingredients are vitamins & minerals & additions? if cooking a food to death is such a great thing, why do you need to add all this stuff?)

not debating anyone on their choice of what to feed their pet, one of MY OWN dogs eats kibble - i am just pointing out the fallacy of thinking commercial diets are a "great thing". they are only great for the manufacturers & distributors who are making millions producing and selling this stuff, and for the pet owners too complacent with "this is ok why change it" to challenge why a natural diet is better for their pets in the first place.

having said this, we are a society of convenience, fast-food and quick solutions strapped by financial obligations that force us to make choices in life, one of which is what to feed ourselves, our children, and our pets. WE have the choice to eat McDonald's every day or have fresh healthy foods. our pets DO NOT have this choice. why do dogs look longingly at our dinner plates and drool, beg for treats, raid garbage cans? it's not hard to figure out. they are starved for real food and variety. if i had to eat the same dry processed pellets 3 times a day for the rest of my life, i'd kill myself! :yuck:

i hope to have given food for thought (no pun intended!) to some of you reading this. if you choose not to feed raw or to home-cook, do try to add fresh, whole foods to your pet's diet as often as you can, they deserve at least that act of kindness. and if you can't afford to feed your pet adequately (all you purina and ol'roy proponists!), do the poor animal a favor and hand it over to someone who can.

end of rant :pawprint:

rainbow
March 3rd, 2006, 09:55 PM
WOW....I really hope all this bickering is over. You guys are not helping those of us that are trying to decide what dog food to use.:(

LL1
March 3rd, 2006, 10:00 PM
I apologize if you think my post was rude.

You said

I am still waiting to hear specifics of where you get your information on Solid Gold making false claims

YOu have not given me any evidence that the company (Solid Gold) gives or has given misleading informaton. I can't find anything on the net so the only word I have is yours.

I posted evidence from the FDA and the court that stated Solid Gold defrauded people and placed animals at risk.

I have also posted about menhaden fishmeal which they use in several of their products.

And citric acid which they do not use,but that does not seem to be at issue with you.

If you do some research,you will see a couple other companies that used to use menhaden,and do not any more.Coincidence?I doubt it.Before you ask,some formulas of Canidae and Wellness come to mind,you can check that yourself.I think that is due to public outcry.That is MY opinion,take from it what you wish.Google menhaden fishmeal alone,and with ethoxyquin,and with hazard and explosion.

As for lamb,I can suggest some books to read,always good to do research from source outside the net.If you are interested,please post back and let me know.

That article on the FDA site about Solid Gold comes up as the 5th item on google when you type in Solid Gold and Sissy (the owner of Solid Gold) which is why I said it is easily found.

I posted, and clearly stated it was part of the article.I also posted the link so you could read all of it.Nothing hidden in my posts.

There is other evidence,back when I first started to research food,in about 1999.If I have time I will look for it.

You obviously are sensitive as you chose to use their products.That is your choice.I cant stop you.I have my opinions based on almost 7 years of researching canine diets.We do not have to agree and no need to get hostile with each other.Peace. :grouphug:

(No bickering here rainbow.I am offering info for those who want to make informed choices.You will get no fights from me.Technodoll I agree,kibble is not a great thing,it is the worst of all food choices obviously,but if one nsists on it,a higher quality one is better,which I tried to say earlier.


They have had problems before with false claims.The ads are usually full of faulty science and slamming other foods imo,I think the quality is poor as well.I would never use it.

This is your comment from a previous thread. I wanted you to clarify what you were saying about the company.

You asked me if I did a search. The insinuation was rude by the way!

In answer to your question, yes I did a search on Solid Gold dog food. That is afterall what we were discussing. The article you brought up is about drugs that the company was once selling 16 years ago. You omitted to quote that part of the article by the way. It has nothing to do with dog food so I would never have found anything. The so called drugs were herbal remedies from what I gather.

I don't see anything about faulty science or slamming of other foods in your article. Where is that information?

As for researching what we are feeding our dogs, I have. I read everything I can find about dog nutrition. That is why I settled on Solid Gold, Wolf King.

technodoll
March 3rd, 2006, 10:09 PM
WOW....I really hope all this bickering is over. You guys are not helping those of us that are trying to decide what dog food to use.

it's not bickering, it's an intelligent and interesting exchange of ideas on a very personal & heated topic. if you don't know which food to feed your dog, rest assured that if you set foot in a holistic petshop ALL their foods are pretty much the same standard and it will not make a heck of a lot of difference which one you feed. just don't buy anything from the grocery store, pharmacies, home renovation stores and walmart (you get the idea).
good luck!

rainbow
March 3rd, 2006, 10:57 PM
Perhaps not....but Sadies Mom started this thread asking for advice and I think we got a tad bit off topic and one of us should have started a new thread. :sad:

starsen
March 4th, 2006, 12:02 AM
Solid Gold uses xylitol in their Dragon's teeth and dragonette treats- and xylitol is toxic to dogs.

Solid gold uses scare tactic marketing which I cannot respect.

All Solid Gold food has barley in it- a gluten containing grain. If your dog is sensitive, has allergies, etc, it's not a good choice.

Solid Gold is very grain-heavy and their attempt at a grain-free food is a marketing gimmick just like all the others- I dislike it for many reasons.

Use of dairy products in a dog food doesn't thrill me either- notorious for being hard to digest and allergy culprit (in people, too, by the way)

I could probably go on, but I'd be rambling. I don't think Solid Gold is good food either.

les
March 4th, 2006, 08:38 AM
LL1 - I'm interested in the books about lamb. I just switched mine to a lamb food from chicken and haven't seen/read anything negative about lamb, other then chicken may be easier to digest.

Thanks :)

les
March 4th, 2006, 09:28 AM
One more thing because I can't get over it ....

Originally Posted by technodoll
and if you can't afford to feed your pet adequately (all you purina and ol'roy proponists!), do the poor animal a favor and hand it over to someone who can.

What kind of thing to say is that? So I suppose you'll be handing over YOUR dog that you feed kibble to then right?? Because maybe I say it's not good enough.

Frankly, I don't get offended over the internet but if anything was ever rude in this post, that's it. Who made you so superior?

If someone takes good care of their pet and feeds it purina ... so what.

Personally, the whole reason I started questioning "high" quality food is I met a lady with 2 of the best looking labs I've ever seen. I thought they were puppies and when I asked her how old they were - she said 7 and 10!

She feeds them Purina One!!

I suppose I should tell her to give them away right, because she isn't feeding her pets adequately?? Never mind that she takes great care of them and they get lots of exercise and are healthy - she MUST be wrong and YOU must be right.

It's great that you're happy with raw, I just think you shouldn't be so rude to people who don't feed that way or to people who can't afford better then purina or who maybe LIKE purina.

LL1
March 4th, 2006, 10:04 AM
Hi Les.Ann Martin discusses lamb in her book
Protect Your Pet: More Shocking Facts By Ann N. Martin and I will have to check my scanned in files in my old computer,I think she discusses it in her first book as wellFood Pets Die For: Shocking Facts About Pet Food By Ann N. Martin.Lamb is also discussed by Dr. Alfred Plechner,who way back when was the guy that created the novel protein formula for Nature's Recipe to help dogs with allergies to certainproteins. http://www.drplechner.com/about.html

His book Pets at Risk - From Allergies to Cancer, Remedies for an Unsuspected Epidemic Dr. Alfred J. Plechner DVM explores several issues with allergies and his HIT iist of what he calls high in trouble foods and most frequent cause of allergies.Every dog is different of course,and back then lamb was a novel protein and helped but now it is not really the same,and as you noted is also harder to digest.

Frenchy
March 4th, 2006, 10:52 AM
I wasn't bickering either.And I like what Les just wrote,If people take care of their dogs,exercise and no junk food,it's good enough for me.If I would believe everything that I read here,no kibble is good and that's it.Some of you always find something bad like,that's not a good ingredient and so on.Yes, I think it's good to give info to people but keep an open mind.There is the 2006 dog journal list that I think has great brands.Lot's of choice.

technodoll
March 4th, 2006, 12:08 PM
hey les.... when you take ONE sentence out of an entire post and analyse it like that, you are ignoring the context of the statement and twisting its meaning. IMO that is offensive to me. :mad:

i personally do not want to offend anyone BUT it is my opinion and my right to express it. if you don't like it, move on.

mastifflover
March 4th, 2006, 12:14 PM
I agree Solid Gold makes a good product but it did not work for Buddy he had the worst gas and I found his stool to loose. But I know others who swear by it. I think it is a matter of trial and error as well as education to find the best food for your dog. I would prefer to feed raw but it would not work for me and Bud. But I would never feed wet food as a steady diet either I give Bud a couple of cans for a treat but besides cost it does nothing for the health of their teeth. So I agree feed the best you can afford and give you pet lots of love. My first dog lived to 17 years old and ate Gaines Burgers (total garbage food) we did not know any better but then again most people did not at that time. Let me also say she was never sick a day until she turned 17 and got cancer.

LL1
March 4th, 2006, 12:19 PM
Whole Dog Journal did an article a few years back on why canned is better than kibble if you decide to use processed food.

les
March 4th, 2006, 12:26 PM
I'm not ignoring the context of it .. it says kibble is bad and if you feed Ol'Roy or Purina you should give your dog to someone who can do better.

What is the meaning that I missed? Maybe you should be more clear what you mean instead of making a statement like that if you don't mean it.

Just like it's your right to express your opinion, it's my right to express mine and I don't have to "move on" if I don't agree with you.

Personally, I would rather see a dog loved, exercised, taken to the vet and just cared for - that to me, is more important then the kind of food you feed.

I like to read these posts because I am having a hard time finding a food that works for my dogs but I can't be quiet when I see a statement like that made.

Prin
March 4th, 2006, 01:33 PM
The truth is there are no limits. Ol'Roy might be good enough for some people, but might be trash to others. Holistic kibble might be exactly what some people want in a food for their dogs, and other people might hate it too. Even with raw. You might feed your dog scraps from the butcher at $1/lb, but other people might find that disgusting and feed only organic to their pets. And still others think any meat at all is just disgusting, and we shouldn't be farming it at all, and would feed their dogs a vegan diet. Where is the limit? There is none. So stop judging.

You can't decide what food I will feed my dogs, and you can't even judge how well my dogs are doing on a food because you have never met them or seen them. How can you say my dogs don't have healthy teeth? Have you seen them?? No. Don't assume things, just because you don't believe in kibble.

So only kibble-fed dogs raid the trash? Well, then Jemma and Boo must not be on kibble since I can leave food out wherever and whenever I want and they don't touch it. The garbage is out, easily accessed and has never been ravaged. Why do dogs beg? It has nothing to do with their nutrition requirements. It has to do with reinforcing the behavior. I bet I can make any raw fed dog beg. What they're fed is not the cause of the begging.

I personally do not want to offend anyone BUT it is my opinion and my right to express it. if you don't like it, move on.Judging people for giving kibble is just as bad as the link that somebody posted a week or so ago where a vet called raw feeders "cult-like". Same judgement in a different direction. Opinions are one thing, but judgements are another. To be clear: saying "I don't like kibble" an opinion. Saying "people who feed kibble are stupid and incapable of owning a pet" is a judgement.;)

technodoll
March 4th, 2006, 02:51 PM
i have no clue what you people are talking about. who's judging whom or what? go back and read my ENTIRE post, you are obviously all missing something if you think i said all kibble feeders were bad. "selective reading" = judging too, you know. :eek: (hint: look at the first sentence in paragraph 2!!) - shame on you for choosing to ignore that part of my post and attack me on everything else.

and if a person chooses to feed a bland, dry, boring kibble to their dogs day in, day out for the rest of their lives, at least have some pity and offer REAL food mixed in some of the time. and the point of feeding a high-quality holistic kibble vs supermarket crap (purina, iams, etc) is that it costs the same or even less since you feed less of it and animals tend to get less sick less often on "better" kibble. i have read this statement numerous times on this forum :)

ALSO, assuming that dogs have no interest or desire for REAL food ("it's only behavioral") is not only ignorant, it's damaging propaganda, no doubt the product of years of brainwashing by the pet food corporations and idiot vets sponsored by them. I have no doubt your dogs are all loved and very well cared for (that's why people are on this forum in the first place, right?), but it could always be better. sure there are those miracle (and rare) dogs that live on gains burgers and pukanuba until age 15 without any health issues, but those dogs are the EXCEPTION and NOT the norm. oh and imagine how long these dogs WOULD have lived on a proper diet! 20, 25 years? that is like saying that just because George Burns lived till his late 90's drinking and smoking every day, that it is safe to drink and smoke like that and what's the big deal. we're talking statistics here, the law of averages. pets on crappy food, statistically, are sicker animals than those on healthier foods. you cannot debate that.

i repeat: it is my opinion that people who are too cheap to feed their pets good food should NOT have the right to own them. get a hamster, get a fish, whatever. but to choose a 35 lbs bag of $9.99 Ol Roy from Walmart and then drop $40 on a case of beer and a bottle of whiskey on the same shopping trip is just moronic. THAT was the point i was trying to make all along. i hope i've cleared that up now for those that requested an explanation.

Prin
March 4th, 2006, 03:16 PM
ALSO, assuming that dogs have no interest or desire for REAL food ("it's only behavioral") is not only ignorant, it's damaging propaganda, no doubt the product of years of brainwashing by the pet food corporations and idiot vets sponsored by them.That's twisting it too. I never said they had no interest. I said my dogs don't eat garbage. I said my dogs are not lacking nutrients to the point where they are driven to eat garbage. I said dogs only beg if you encourage them to.

And it's not as simple as that. When you're up all night with a dog puking every 20 minutes, and you FINALLY find a food that stops that, do you really think that you're going to start messing with it again? A lot of people here are having trouble with their dogs and are just trying to find a way to fix it. Sometimes dogs simply cannot handle a diet of variety or of raw. If I add anything to Boo's food, chances are he'll either have raging diarrhea or start puking for a week. Hardly an act of kindness. And their jubilation in the morning when I feed them suggests their food is not bland.

A very loved dog doing well on ol'roy, when there are hundreds of thousands of homeless dogs on petfinder, is not a bad thing, IMO. There are far worse things you could do to a dog than to feed supermarket crap food. And feeding ol'roy or whatever doesn't tell you anything about the care the dog gets either. It doesn't tell you if the dogs have vet check-ups or anything about that. Some people just don't know what they're feeding and others can't afford to feed better on a daily basis. That doesn't make them dead-beats or bad owners. Just as you could not believe that I can't afford to feed raw, sometimes I have a hard time believing others can't afford better kibble. But they can't. That's just the way it is when families are counting the pennies. And it doesn't mean they're spending it on "beer and popcorn" either.



But does any of this mean raw-feeding people can look down on holistic kibble-feeding people, and both of the above are right to look down on crap kibble-feeders? No. There are differences both in cultures and in individuals when it comes to pet care.

Is a dog on ol'roy suffering? Not necessarily. A dog on any food, be it raw, kibble or canned, who has an allergy to it is suffering. It has nothing to do with the food, but with the owner. Some people I have met who swear by ProPlan are the most devoted dog owners out there. Some dogs do so well on crap kibble too. You'd never know what they were eating by the look of them. Sure that might not be the norm, but then it comes down to the owner again. If a dog is not doing well on ANY food, it's up to the owner to take action. But if the dog is doing great, like I said, why mess with a good thing?

The thing is, you feed raw because you feel like it. Because you think it's good. But if Dakotah had allergies to everything, runny stools every other dump, and all night vomitting, raw might not be working. Then what? You just want your baby to be OK. You just want him to eat SOMETHING and be able to digest it. Some dogs are more sensitive than others.

In the end, it's like saying that a person who eats prepared foods and eats candy more often than they should is incapable, and probably should leave having kids to somebody else, while somebody, like a vegan, who watches what she eats and knows all the sources of her foods is better mom material. The food is not the deciding factor, IMO.

Sure you'll have a healthier dog if you feed better food, but how much healthier? Will you really notice the difference? It is so rare that a person feeding holistic food will switch to raw without an allergy/intolerance problem, so how will we know the difference in a healthy dog on holistic who is switched to raw?

Prin
March 4th, 2006, 03:18 PM
Oh and I found this on Sissy from Solid Gold:
Reason: FDA had been harassing McGill over labels on her holistic pet food products. In March 1990, an FDA agent seized products from her store without a search warrant and shut down her store. On July 12, 1990, after being indicted, she chose a jury trial. Upon appearing for her trial, she was clapped into leg irons, put into a Maximum Security Federal Prison for 179 days, and fined $10,000. While incarcerated she suffered a near fatal stroke.

Outcome: McGill sued the Department of Justice and won a victory on Feb. 20, 1992. She expects to file a $25,000,000 lawsuit against the FDA.
The tables have turned.:D

Frenchy
March 4th, 2006, 05:26 PM
Right on Prin.

LL1
March 4th, 2006, 05:37 PM
Did she file?Any updates since 1992?

technodoll
March 4th, 2006, 07:29 PM
prin... dakotah is not raw-fed... i have been trying to tell you that... only my female is on raw by HER choice, she will starve rather than eat kibble. and i applaud your choice to put your maximum budget $ possible on feeding your furkids, because you cared enough to educate yourself on what goes in their bodies. it's the other folks i have a beef with, those who don't care - ya know? :pawprint:

Prin
March 4th, 2006, 11:02 PM
The ones who don't care would show it in more than just their food choice. They'd show it in the vet care (like the ones that show up here: "my dog's intestines are on the floor. How much pepto bismol will make him better? I don't have enough money to go to the vet. Please reply ASAP!") or even in the maintenance (i.e. disgustingly long nails, greasy nasty fur, etc).

Honestly, I've educated my dad a gazillion times on food choices and he still swears by proplan. And his dog is doing so well on it. His fur is thick, he has endless energy, etc etc. Jemma and Boo would suffer on it, but if I had an easier dog, would I be able to feed it a crappier food? Probably not. After learning about all this stuff, there are some ingredients that I wouldn't want my dog to smell, let alone eat (like "meat meal" or "animal digest"...). Yes, dogs in the wild eat the innerds of their prey, but our dogs are not wild, and the wild ones aren't given much choice. They eat to survive. Our dogs eat to get fat. :D

We all agree that we should all be doing the best we can for our pets, but what our best is varies so greatly.

Why isn't Dakotah raw fed? I thought he was getting raw with kibble...

LL1, I haven't found anything else, but I'll keep looking.:thumbs up

technodoll
March 4th, 2006, 11:41 PM
Why isn't Dakotah raw fed? I thought he was getting raw with kibble...

the little brat will only eat raw once or twice per week, so i don't even offer it more than that anymore. i keep hoping he will take example from his sister but so far, no such luck :( It's not common but some dogs just don't take to raw no matter what, they are attracted to the strong smell of kibble (raw meat is pretty bland unless you sear it) - even if i ditched all kibble from the house, he would eventually eat but never with gusto. that's just him, drives us crazy but we can't change his personality. if he was ever lost in the woods he would STARVE! :eek:

the little one, on the other hand, is the complete opposite. she is more wolf-like, is already an amazing hunter and doesn't even like cookies & treats, will spit kibble out and not eat for days rather than eat the stuff. she really loves her raw food.

crazy household eh? LOL :crazy:

Prin
March 5th, 2006, 12:52 AM
All you need is a vegan dog, and you're set! :D

jesse's mommy
March 5th, 2006, 08:51 AM
I know this has been a heated subject, but I did want to add that my childhood dog lived to be 18 (we had to put him down because of his cancerous tumors and loss of bowel movements). He lived to be 18 because of the love he got from us, not because of his food. My parents didn't know better either and fed him Purina One and some kind of unhealthy canned food. We gave him lots of love, took him to the vet if he wasn't feeling well, a warm house in winter, a cool house in summer, lots of socialization, and endless cuddles. I really agree with Prin that the food quality isn't always the case sick dogs. It's alll about their environment. There are too many homeless animals out there that aren't living in good environments to worry about what food they have. We feed Jesse Nutro -- both her kibble and her wet. She loves it and doesn't have any side affects to it so it works for her and it's within our budget. The move we just made put a huge dent in our pockets that we have to crawl out of and honestly it's what we can do now. I know there are foods that are better and I know there are foods that are worse, but we aren't dropping $40 on whiskey and beer (Though I do drop $6 every once in a while for some Smirnoff Twisted :D ). It doesn't change how we feel about Jesse and we aren't going to give her to a better home because right now a higher classed food isn't in our budget. It would be different if we were eating filet mignon every night and she was getting crap food. Her home is with us and it will stay like that regardless of the food we give her. That's all I have to say. ;)

coppperbelle
March 5th, 2006, 07:00 PM
Not everyone has the time or knowledge to learn about dog food. They get information from their breeder, the pet shop or from the vet and they follow it. They follow the information they receive and think they are doing the best for their pet.
I don't think any of us have the right to dictate to anyone what they should or should not feed their dog. We can offer advice, tell them about our experiences with a particular food but they are the only ones that can decide what they can afford to feed their pet and should not be made to feel guilty if all they can afford is a grocery store brand.