- Pet forum for dogs cats and humans 


don't complain

February 24th, 2006, 02:05 PM
To all the idiots who have lost their pets, don't call me whining that your pet is missing, or you've found their dead bodies. If you are stupid enough to put your dog outside unleashed in an un-fenced yard - what do you expect??? or let an untrained dog off leash and he just took off, or your kids aren't responsible enough to close doors or gates behind them, or you let your cat roam., then nobody is to blame but your own irresponsible self. If you can't treat your pet with the same precautions you would a 2 yr. old child then don't own one. Just received info. that this dummies 2 german shepherds were hit and killed by a transport truck while they were out loose and chasing deer. She is SO UPSET. Poor stupid woman.

February 24th, 2006, 04:10 PM
I find this post to be rather offensive. There's one thing to be upset about something but another to take a shot at someone who is human and made a terrible error. Perhaps toning it down a bit would be in order?:o

jesse's mommy
February 24th, 2006, 06:54 PM
I agree with BMD. It's definitely a little harsh. Mistakes happen and we all make them and we all learn from them. It's not just with pets, but mistakes happen with children as well. We are here to give support to those who made mistakes and help them learn.

February 24th, 2006, 06:59 PM
i have to agree that is a little harsh.....and we don't even know the full story(from the owners perspective)as to what happened.

doggy lover
February 24th, 2006, 07:08 PM
I can understand you getting upset, as these things can be prevented. But accidents happen in life and it is sad that these pets are gone because of them, but what about all the abused animals they aren't accidents or the dogs that die at the hands of puppy millers. I have been lucky and never lost a dog, but I have one now that has a bad habbit of running away is let off leash. So I don't let him do it, if I walk him on my 16 acres he is on a long line, hopefully I will never have to go through what these people have. I think most sit after and say if only I......... But we don't have hind site.

February 24th, 2006, 07:08 PM
I agree that's it's a little harsh. By the same token, there are "accidents" and then there are "accidents that are waiting to happen." You can't blame people when children forget to shut a gate (happens to my sister on occasion, since she shares a yard with her neighbour who babysits, so there are any number of kids running in and out of the yard at any given time) or when a cat sneaks out (they are very good at that, after all ;) ). But, yeah, it must be tiring when you keep hearing the same old stories time and time again.

February 24th, 2006, 07:20 PM
It might get tiring, but you can't assume these people don't love their pets and don't care what happens. A lot of the time, they just don't know better. Doesn't mean it doesn't hurt.

February 24th, 2006, 07:43 PM
Well, let me tell you a little story. On another (non pet related) board I frequent, a woman was gushing over her new puppy. After a couple of weeks, there's suddenly a post from her saying she's lost her puppy - he ran away - and so she now needs help finding a new one. :eek: So I very helpfully posted that she should check with all the local shelters & rescue groups, talk to local vets, put up posters, etc... A few days later, she posted back that she found him at a local shelter (of all places! imagine that!) and thanks very much for my suggestions. She may very well have been missing her puppy, much in the same way she would miss her car if it had been stolen. I'm sure most of these people genuinely do love their pets and mourn their loss, and for that I'm terribly sorry. It's a pain I wouldn't wish on anyone. The ones I'm referring to are the ones who treat pets like property and will "trade up" whenever it tickles their fancy. ;)

February 24th, 2006, 07:49 PM
Instead of being so judgemental and critical why not try to educate people like this on the dangers of letting their dogs run loose?

It would certainly be more productive than bashing people who I imagine are already feeling terrible over the loss of their pet(s).

February 24th, 2006, 08:01 PM
I'm with bernerlver ; some people may sound stupid,sometimes they are,most of them just don't know any better because people insult them instead of explaining things to them.I don't want to sound harsh,but really,some people are just not inform,doesn't mean they're idiots.

February 24th, 2006, 08:12 PM
Sorry folks. Just trying to play devil's advocate here. :angel: I agree that education is key - that's why I was very nice and non-judgemental when responding to that woman (but I know I can vent here ;) ).

But, in defence of the OP, we all have days when we've heard enough and need to vent a little. That's what I'm thinking this post was intended to be. I don't think he/she meant that we should all ignore/berate these people when they come looking for sympathy. :)

February 24th, 2006, 08:13 PM
Yeah, that's like me calling Iams feeders idiots. They're not. They either don't know better (yet) or they don't think they have the means to feed better. It's better not to judge right off the bat.

But I do get frustrated sometimes, but we all have to learn to "let it go" and move on.

Lucky Rescue
February 24th, 2006, 08:27 PM
j.pettet, I understand your frustration. There are many pets who die through negligence and very preventable accidents. There are people who habitually let dogs and cats run free, leave dogs outside all night, don't use a leash when walking etc etc.

But there are situations where a pet can be hurt or lost in the blink of an eye in a purely accidental way, and the owners are devastated. These people feel badly enough and have plenty of guilt without someone rubbing it in. Sometimes it's just not possible to foresee every single possibility and guard against it.:(

February 24th, 2006, 09:29 PM
I understand your reaction was a spontaneous and frustrated one. The first time I found a lost dog, I was out of mind that he wasn't wearing a tag and that the owners hadn't turned the world UPSIDE looking for him.

But after that initial reaction, (and then a second and third lost dog finding their way to my doorstep), I realize it's sometimes very hard to always be so alert to predict our babies' next move. I realized this only after the dogs I found were claimed by their owners. ;)

February 24th, 2006, 11:51 PM
I just have to say something about being informed. I appreciate the fact that people here are so willing to share their knowledge. I was very uninformed when we had Joey and I really DID think that feeding him IAMS was a good choice. And I thought that he couldn't learn because he had been abused.

And most tragically I thought that it would be cruel to have him pts so we allowed him to suffer longer than he needed to. I can't even think about it without crying. It took a team of caring vets to convince me.

But I did love him greatly and did what I thought was best for him. Spoiled him and loved him but didn't always know the best way to care for him.

But since I've found this site I have learned so much. Everyone here is so generous with their knowledge. We are in puppy classes, we are eating well. I was always a little safety conscious about leashes and such but now I know that learning basic commands is a safety issue. It makes so much sense, but to someone who wasn't raised with animals those are the kinds of things you aren't born knowing.

So thanks to everyone here. Keep on educating !!!!!!!

February 25th, 2006, 01:50 AM
What a great positive reply, joeysmama.:highfive:
No matter how much we learn, we still don't know the half of it.

February 25th, 2006, 09:24 PM
Hey guys, this was definitely a RANT and perhaps did sound a little harsh but I refuse to give any sympathy to people who don't cherish their pets as though they were fur children. The woman whose german shepherds were killed has had her 2, 9 month old dogs (brothers) since they were 8 wks. old. She never thought they'd take off to chase a deer!!!!! They had been complained about for being off her property by a couple of her neighbours but had done nothing to secure them. The fact that they hadn't even reached the age of 1 and while one died instantly at the scene the other died in the trucker's arms who by the way said he was devastated and did everything possible to avoid hitting them. Putting your pets outside loose and expecting them to stay around unsupervised is insane as in the case of Punky. Where do these owners get-off - would any of you put a little kid out in an unfenced yard alone? I agree that accidents do happen but is that the only way negligent owners ever learn? Are they deaf, dumb and blind to the fact that pets are picked up for re-sale, the reward money, selling to labs, reproduction purposes or to be used as bait. What happens to parents of kids that are found wandering, its head-line news, CAS gets involved and it usually ends up in court. I repeat again that if you can't, don't or won't treat your pets as you would a small child and offer them all the same protection and love then you shouldn't have pets. Considering the life-span of cats/dogs is 20 yrs. max and we're lucky if they don't die from their inherited genetics or viruses I can't comprehend extending the average owner's broad arena for mistakes. My deepest sympathy goes out to anyone who suffers a loss of their pet due to old age or incurable illness but not for those who allow preventable "mistakes".

February 26th, 2006, 03:14 PM
t.pettet,yes it was a little harsh.But I do understand what you meant and I do wish this ; some people should take more care of their pets.You can't expect pets to run loose without any accident happen to them.I know my dogs are secured in my fenced yard.Wouldn't have it any other way!And when I used to have cats,they were indoors 24/7.

February 27th, 2006, 03:19 PM
I agree with T pettet and then I agree with others.

I told my sister not to buy from a pet store b/c it supports puppy mills. I told her that they will tell her that they get the dog from a reputable breeder no matter what. She bought a pug anyways. 6 months later he was dead.
She knew better.
So in this case as T pettet described its a case of the owners knowing better. It was a rant.

I also agree that if know better you will do better but as far as I can see if you know better and you don't do better then as T pettet said... Don't complain

March 9th, 2006, 11:11 AM
Yeah, that's like me calling Iams feeders idiots. They're not. They either don't know better (yet) or they don't think they have the means to feed better. It's better not to judge right off the bat.

But I do get frustrated sometimes, but we all have to learn to "let it go" and move on.

Please explain what you mean about "Iams feeders idiots." I'm lost.

March 9th, 2006, 11:50 AM
Iams is not a good food. When you research dog food in depth, you'll find that it's full of by-products and cost saving fillers that don't benefit the dog at all, but boost the protein numbers and make the food appear good. Ingredients like corn. Dogs don't digest corn. There's some protein in corn so that raises the crude protein content of the food, but since it's not digested, it's useless protein. On top of that, Procter and Gamble, the company who makes Iams, tests most if not all their products on animals.

If you lurk around the dog food forum here, you'll see what we mean by "good food". Personally, I feed Solid Gold Wolf King: Wolf King ( Check out the ingredients and compare them to Iams. They're in two different leagues.

But for the "idiots" part, I was saying that even though I don't like Iams and I think it's not a good food, I understand that people have very strong budget constraints and have no choice but to feed that. As long as they know what they are feeding, it's their choice. Frankly though, if budget is a concern, I'd feed Kirkland's Lamb and rice formula (the Costco house brand). It's about the same price as Iams but better quality (though still not the best).

March 9th, 2006, 01:37 PM
I guess I don't understand why there is such a need to resort to name calling. If your knowledge base is greater than those you talk do, don't you think it would be better to educate them in a non-condescending manner? It seems to me that discussions that are civil tend to teach a person more than insulting ones do. Most people are less likely to take your advice seriously when attached to a nasty attitude.

March 9th, 2006, 04:37 PM
I have to join the chorus of being totally frustrated when a =n animal dies needlessly - like the pet who was chained and was attacked w=by a larger dog. What were they thinking?

Still, I really think we can discuss this without resorting to being nasty, name calling or sarcasm. It never helps! Education and suppot does!

March 9th, 2006, 04:59 PM
There is no need to resort to name calling. No one was named in the original post. It's just a matter of someone letting off a little steam in an area where they thought it would be safe to do so.

I have to admit that the members of this board have come a long way in their reactions to those types of posts. I remember a time (not too long ago) when someone would have posted about - say, for example - about a pregnant cat who has started bleeding profusely. Back in the "old days," they would have had their heads figuratively ripped off and mounted on a pike as an example to others contemplating asking the same question. I think everyone has been doing a very admirable job of trying to remain calm and educating the uneducated. The mods are also doing a great job of heading off a problem before it escalates. :thumbs up

And, on the rare occasion that someone comes on asking for advice, is told what to do in very polite terms, and then the op comes back to tell us we're all fruitcakes and "it's just a freakin dog/cat!" ... well, then I'd say that's pretty much the cry for "Open Season on Trolls" don't you think? ;)

March 9th, 2006, 05:24 PM
No one said it wasn't safe to let off steam. We all need to do it now and then. What I am talking about has nothing to do with accidents or even "accidents waiting to happen", but rather opinions about pet care...feeding, exercise, medical, etc. I find most people on this board genuinely care and love their pets, but insinuating that someone does not, simply because they do not feel or think or do the things you do is condescending and insulting. Most people do the absolute best they can and when they ask for advice and guidance, a sarcastic, belittling remark is unproductive and downright mean. I guess in my own way...I am venting. I am more likely accepting of someone's views who speaks to me as an equal not an inferior. I guess we should all learn something from our pets....they are never judgemental or critical.:pawprint:

March 9th, 2006, 05:33 PM
I find most people on this board genuinely care and love their pets, but insinuating that someone does not, simply because they do not feel or think or do the things you do is condescending and insulting. Most people do the absolute best they can and when they ask for advice and guidance, a sarcastic, belittling remark is unproductive and downright mean.
Oh, see, I guess I haven't seen a post like that in a while. Like I said, I've seen a vast improvement lately in the way people conduct themselves on this board. Lately, insults have only flown when the OP instigates it (generally speaking ;) ).

March 9th, 2006, 07:17 PM
Agreed W4F, I haven't seen anything rude or inflammatory in quite some time, and generally only in response to the OP initiating the conduct. As for personal opinions, I think most of us feel very strongly for our pets, we come here to learn and grow as owners and companions. To varying degrees, we all have our moments where we're ready to do battle for what we believe, and in that spirit, one must remove personal feelings when reading a post. Remember, the written word, be it email, instant message or post, may not have been written with the same tone a person READS it with. If one takes offence, it is one's prerogative to do so, however, it may not have been meant with the same force and feeling one projects upon the statement. Just my 2 cents, but working for a company where the only communications we really use are via email and IM, I've made the unfortunate mistake of unwittingly taking out my bad day on someone who sent an email that truly meant nothing and had no tone, but I took it as such.

March 9th, 2006, 07:23 PM
Oh, see, I guess I haven't seen a post like that in a while. Like I said, I've seen a vast improvement lately in the way people conduct themselves on this board. Lately, insults have only flown when the OP instigates it (generally speaking ;) ).
What does that mean? (generally speaking????) Did you actually READ what I wrote???? I just can't abide anyone talking DOWN to me or anyone else!
I'll say it again....we need to learn a little from our furbabies...You have your opinion (and I may not agree) but I'll treat and feed my dogs what I think is matter what you or anyone else thinks!!!!! (Unless you can otherwise convince me in an intelligent and civil manner!). I refuse to let anyone think or feel better than me!! My babies are loved more than some children are. SORRY!!!!!

March 9th, 2006, 07:36 PM
okay, lets just take a deep breath.........*in through the nose, out through the mouth*.....Everyone here has a rght to their opinion, but should be respectfull in stating it.
If some are of a diffirent opinion, why not agree to disagree??:) :)

As for OP, I think this was a "totally frustrated post" as for being a bad person for having a missing pet, I have indoor cats, and have had them escape on more then one occasion, does that make me a bad person? I would hate to think that I would be considered a bad pet owner. some things happen beyond our control, and we shouldn't be judged by it!!! THere are posters who have come here posting missing pets, and have found their pets dead, so I am sure reading this post must have added to their already broken heart!

March 9th, 2006, 07:59 PM
What does that mean? (generally speaking????) Did you actually READ what I wrote???? I just can't abide anyone talking DOWN to me or anyone else!
Whoa! Easy there, Zebby! I wasn't directing that at you. You are not the OP here, first of all, and second of all, "generally speaking" meant just that. Generally, people have been very civil and only retaliate when the OP gets nasty. I had to put "generally" in there because it isn't the case 100% of the time, but enough so that I don't see it as a problem anymore (or at least, the problem it used to be). Again, you are not the person in question here. I was tring to make the point that it really hasn't been that bad lately, in my opinion. That's all. Nothing more sinister or condescending or insulting than that. Really. Honest. Cool?

March 10th, 2006, 04:43 AM
Okay. Let's try this again, I guess I just wasn't being clear enough. I totally agree with the frustration we feel when someone puts a pet in danger. It makes me crazy, too. But your rant about it, while it may have been a little harsh, was not what I was talking about.

What I take offense to is the way otherwise good advice (about feeding, basic pet care, medical, excercise, etc) is posted in such a manner that anyone who thinks differently is all wrong. If that were the case there would only be one way to do anything and that is not how the world is.

So I agree to disagree but I will still speak up when I feel that the way something is said puts me on the defensive.

March 10th, 2006, 06:09 AM
Well this thread has gone all over the place...

I'll now give my two cents worth about it or rather about where it ended up heading..

When I adopt a dog to a family, I simply make suggestions as to what I feed and why. I don't insist that the adopter purchase a particuliar food and I try not to offer an opinion on a particuliar food they are going to feed unless they ask me. If asked, I normally want to know the following:

Why do you feed that particuliar food... meaning convenience, cost?

Once I have that answer, then I will suggest a comparatively priced food or a food that is readily available that I know would be a bit healthier for the dog. However, the bottom line is that what you choose to feed your dog is a very personal thing and should not be criticised. It may not be your choice of food but life is full of differences in people and choices are personal.

I have a feeling that this is what Zebby was referring to more than the original post. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. :o

Remember, you catch more flies with honey.;) Something I have been trying to do more of late and it seems to work. Wonder why it took so many years to understand that. :eek:

March 10th, 2006, 07:27 AM
Remember, you catch more flies with honey.;)
I forget which famous comedian/actor said something to the effect of "But who would want to catch flies??" :p Yes, I understand Zebby's point. The odd thing is that I agree. Guess I wasn't making my point clear enough. Sorry for the drama. Funny, this wasn't even my thread to begin with. That's what I get for playing devil's advocate, I guess. :cool:

March 10th, 2006, 09:01 AM
Writing4Fun...Your thread really had nothing to do with my ranting and to some extent I agree with you. I'm sorry if I was unclear and I did not in any way think your comments were directed at me, I didn't think anyone's were.

BMDLuver...You hit the nail on the head. :thumbs up My original post was questioning why it was necessary to make suggestions while calling other people names. I believe in using honey also and I guess that's something I've learned with age. I just commented that people are more likely to listen to a point of view when it is presented in a less condescending manner.

Sorry it all blew up.

March 10th, 2006, 10:28 AM
Awwww this is so nice!!:) working it out and getting along, and no hard feelings, I knew this was all just misunderstandings!

:grouphug: :grouphug:

March 10th, 2006, 01:33 PM
Well I think the same as you Zeb and W4F as your saying that its better to speak in a non condescending way. In some cases if the person would research what it takes to own a dog/cat then we wouldn't have to be preaching all the time. ( not talking about food)

When it comes to proper exercise, vet care, abuse, training ect.. it is the owners responsiblity to find these things out. You don't go buy a car without having ever learned how to drive. So sometimes I don't tolerate the ignorant defence, some people choose to be ignorant. Choose to be lazy, selfish and uncaring. If you own a dog/cat and don't realize vet bills, care and time are needed then you are smart kind, caring, loving, smart, well researched, educated... nope non of those fit .. so in that case I would say they are idiots! Now if you come on here befor eyou purchase your dog and you know nothing about dogs/cats ect... then your not an idiot you are smart and caring and soon to be well researched. So for the argument of the occasional flame I would have to agree.

If its about food brands and simple stuff then that is cool, I would give an opinion and research so they can check it out themselves. no biggy.

jesse's mommy
March 10th, 2006, 01:37 PM
Well said luvmypit!

March 10th, 2006, 02:03 PM
but what about those people who are constantly being told that what they are doing is dangerous, yet they choose to ignore your advice because "they know better"? then come crying when something bad happens to their pet? :eek:

Case in point: my brother adopted a young german shepherd last autumn. At my advice he had her spayed - thank goodness - but lets her run loose on his property, which is a huge lot on a wooded mountain top threaded by roads where people drive their SUVs and walk on the weekends with their children. this bitch disappears for hours everyday, left free to roam and bark and hunt and who knows what. my brother says "she's ok, she always comes back". i try to tell him that's not the point, she may go bother other people,s dogs, she barks and growls at children on public property (she does not make the distinction between "her" land and "public" land), what if the bites someone? or gets hit by a vehicle? or slips on a ledge somewhere and breaks her legs and can't make her way back? ya know?

i want to say he's an idiot because his ACTIONS are, but he's my brother, i love him, i know he loves his dog and he is definitely not an idiot. sigh. :confused:

March 10th, 2006, 04:53 PM
Yeah, I guess I was just focusing on the simple stuff...the day-to-day pet things we all do. Pets in danger are another thing altogether. I can be really nasty when it comes to that.

I come from a family (my parents) who had very little regard for a pet and growing up I always promised myself I'd have a pet that no one would take away from me. I've had many dogs and cats since I left "home" and now my parents (and I do love them in spite of this) don't like to come to our house because of all the animals.....too's my life, our home and I sometimes would rather be around my pets than some people I know. But I'm getting off topic here and you don't need to know my family history.

I really enjoy all the information, caring and photos I have seen on this board, but again, I just want to say that an opinion or information is best received when it is not accompanied with insults or a "better than you attitude". As jawert1 expalined, it is difficult to know the tone of an email or IM but then its the poster's responsibilty to take a step back and think about what they're saying. It's also my responsibility to take a step back and really think about what I'm reading and if I took it the wrong way. It's so much harder than a face-to-face conversation, but I gotta say if I was talked to in that manner face-to-face I would let the other person know it.

jesse's mommy
March 10th, 2006, 04:59 PM
i want to say he's an idiot because his ACTIONS are, but he's my brother, i love him, i know he loves his dog and he is definitely not an idiot. sigh. :confused:

Tell him he's an idiot. I tell my sister she's an idiot on a regular basis.:D (But she really is.)

March 10th, 2006, 05:33 PM
It wasn't my post about not calling people idiots for eating Iams that offended, right? I was saying I don't call them idiots.

With any advice about animals, unless you're in a position to remove the animal from the situation, you basically have to say what helps you and then step back and let it go. People get so involved with other people's animals only to get so disappointed and let down.

My friends feed their cats Iams, and my dad feeds his dog President's Choice dog food or Proplan, depending on what is cheaper this month. Otherwise, they're all great pet owners. I let them know what their pets are eating and what is better, but if at the end of the bag, they go buy another of the same, I won't say a word. They know now and it's their decision. We just have to let it go.;)

jesse's mommy
March 10th, 2006, 06:17 PM
Right on girlfriend!

March 10th, 2006, 07:50 PM
My previous RANT was just that. Frustration builds up from dealing with some people with NO COMMON SENSE, grooming lawn ornaments, taking in a very aged foster whose been replaced with a puppy and on and on and on. Some people know better and can't be educated, it takes tragic events for them to realize or they didn't care very deeply for the pet to begin with. Negligence causing death and a poor pet food choice can hardly be compared. Alot of people believe the TV ads and still feed Kibbles & Bits because they can't be persuaded there are higher quality foods available - they know better. The basis of the rant is that if you can't relate on an emotional level to your pets as you would another human being who you love then you shouldn't have any, there wouldn't be the need for so many animal shelters or rescue groups and each pet would live out its life with its original family. How many animals are euthanized everyday because the wrong people adopt them originally?

March 10th, 2006, 10:21 PM
How many animals are euthanized everyday because the wrong people adopt them originally?I don't want to know the answer to that one.:sad:

March 11th, 2006, 07:25 AM
I don't want to know the answer to that one.:sad:
In 2004, 3 to 4 million lost and unwanted dogs and cat were euthanized in American animal shelters, a rate of one animal every nine seconds.

That's the US stats, can't seem to find much on the CDN stats but that's no surprise.

Lucky Rescue
March 11th, 2006, 09:04 AM
That's the US stats, can't seem to find much on the CDN stats but that's no surprise

That's for sure. The CDN stats are probably the same, adjusted only to reflect smaller human population.

A few more facts, courtesy of

Over 2 billion dollars is spent annually to shelter and ultimately kill 8 - 10 million adoptable dogs and cats due to shortage of homes. Millions more are abandoned, to suffer injury and illness before dying.

7 dogs and cats are born each day in the US for each person born. Of those only 1 in 5 will stay in their original homes for their lifetime. The remaining 4 are abandoned on the streets or end up at a shelter.

Approximately 71% of cats and kittens entering shelters are killed.

Approximately 55% of dogs and puppies entering shelters are killed.

Purebreds account for over 30% of pets in shelters.

Only 42% of cat owners and 39% of dog owners are aware that there is an overpopulation problem.

March 11th, 2006, 02:49 PM
Hey, BMD, I said I did not want to know. :D I would like to know how many dogs that are born make it through their entire lives with one owner. My guess is it's about 5%...

March 11th, 2006, 07:06 PM
Now that would be a tricky stat to track.. hmmm

March 11th, 2006, 09:01 PM
I think it would be easier to count the ones that did make it their whole lives without switching..:(

March 12th, 2006, 07:54 PM
Out of my 4...two are mine, two were abused. Yoda (chihuaha/jack mix) was my neighbors and left with no food or water in -14 weather and 90+ weather. He never saw inside unless I brought him to my house to get him out of the cold. This was after I bought the owner an inside kennel for him! One day I could not look at his sad face anymore, no food or water on that same day. I told his owner it was my house or charges.Yoda be HAPPY now!!:D Bandit was left to his first owners mother and she could barely feed herself...also never saw inside til I took him in at age 3. And it sounds like many of you are foster parents. Yes I believe 5% stay in one home....sad: sad: