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Bad behavior after neuter

Mahealani770
February 21st, 2006, 01:04 PM
Hello again,
I'm Nicky's Mom...the Pomeranian. Well, he finally got snipped yesterday and I feel so bad for the little guy. As you all know, I was worried that his personality would change after the procedure. It's too soon to tell but he seems the same. I was hoping that this procedure would help with his marking all over the place and his agressiveness. The vet said it should help. Well, when we brought him home yesterday, after his procedure, he did something he has never done before. He walked into our bedroom, looked right at me and peed everywhere. Two hours later he did the same thing, only on my bed. He has never done this before. It's as if he has forgotten the rules. Not only that, but he's still marking like crazy outside. Is this because he is still a little out of if from the anesthesia or what? When I look at him, I can see that he's not my little boy. His eyes are real low and he's very quiet and I know it's because he's still feeling a little loopy, but how long will this last? And will the marking ever stop?
Also, he won't stop licking his incision. The vet suggested putting listerine around the area in hopes that he wouldn't like the taste but that hasn't worked. I'm trying to avoid the E-collar because it looks so uncomfortable and I don't want him to be miserable. Any suggestions on how to keep him from licking the wound?
Thanks everyone!
Mahealani

Rottielover
February 21st, 2006, 01:12 PM
marking is behavioural, will not stop with the neutering.....I think he needs to learn to respect you. Keep him on leash in the house, that way you can correct him with a firm no when he looks like he will mark..... My dog was neutered only at 11 months, not once did he ever try to mark in my home.
As for licking the wound, if you can not control him, I reccomend you purchase a cone and make him wear it. If he pulls a stich, it will get infected, then antibiotics will be needed

jessi76
February 21st, 2006, 01:15 PM
first, understand that neutering isn't like flicking a switch - the behavior doesn't instantly stop. It can take weeks and/or months for the hormones to settle.

listerine around an incision?!?! what? I may be totally off base, but I'd assume that may sting like hell. to keep him occupied - get him a bone! a knuckle bone, a marrow bone, etc... (raw, not cooked)

"When I look at him, I can see that he's not my little boy."

that's terrible.

how old is he? the marking may have to be dealt with as a behavioral issue - worked on through training. give him time to heal from the neutering - keeping him off your bed - and see how he is in a few weeks.

Mahealani770
February 21st, 2006, 01:23 PM
Just to clear something up..when I say, "when I look at him I can see he's not my little boy"..I mean that his face looks different, he's not acting the same, probaby from the anesthesia. He doesn't look the same. I didn't mean it literally, like, he's not by baby. I'd do anything for that little boy.
Thanks for your comment.

jessi76
February 21st, 2006, 01:28 PM
phew! thanks for the clarification!

StaceyB
February 21st, 2006, 01:40 PM
It is quite possible that they gave him more fluids and could not hold it as long as he has been and the meds wouldn't have helped. When a dog looks right at you and then goes it is usually because they had tried to ask already and you didn't notice and now it is too late they can no longer hold it and go. As for your bed it has a strong scent on it. For the same reason, if he wasn't being let out when he needed to be he may look for another acceptable area and unfortunately your bed may have the scent to say this to him.
Marking turns into a habit and once it has done so getting him fixed may not change the behaviour. How long has he been marking?
Give him some time to heal and then see where you are. What kind of aggression are you seeing?

Most vets don't know very much about dog behaviour. Some do but most don't.

Mahealani770
February 21st, 2006, 01:56 PM
Hello,
First of all Nicky is somewhere between 4 and 5 years. We take Nicky outside constantly for several reasons. He is new to our home, he was abandoned on the side of the road, so his behavior at the beginning was very unpredictable, he has a descent amount of energy, and he likes to mark. We have no idea what kind of home he came from but from what I've seen, they didn't treat or teach him very well. Nicky has been marking in the house from day one. We are now responsible for trying to turn his learned behavior around, which is fine. We have worked with him extensively on helping him to feel comfortable, safe, and loved. My fiance walks him a mile in the morning and then we both walk him a mile in the evening, as well as play with him as much as he likes. He has plenty of bones and toys to keep him busy but he doesn't much want them right now, so a bone isn't helping to distract him from his incision. The first thing we did when we got Nicky home was let Nicky go potty. We stayed outside with him for a long time. About 10 mins later, he walks into our bedroom, looks at me, he gave me NO sign that he had to go potty (he had just been outside and marked all over the place), and simply lifted his leg on a chair. Two hours later he walks up to my bed and lifts his leg and peed on the side of it..not on it. He was in a dead sleep seconds before that and gave me no warning. He definitely wasn't acting normally yesterday but I assume it was because he was still a little groggy. I just didn't expect him to come home and not be house broken all of a sudden, ya know? It's as if he forgot everything we taught him over the course of one afternoon. As for the agression, he displayed some at the beginning but I believe it was because he didn't know us and may have been abused by his previous owners.

Lucky Rescue
February 21st, 2006, 02:02 PM
A 4- 5 year old dog's behavior is not going to change literally overnight!:p

Not only was his testosterone driving some of his behaviors, but they are habit by now, and as said, it could take months to see any change in the marking. But neutering alone won't cure this. It must be combined with training.

And yes, he's probably still feeling the effects of the anesthetic.

Mahealani770
February 21st, 2006, 02:05 PM
Thank you Lucky...I always appreciate your helpful and POSITIVE support/feedback.

StaceyB
February 21st, 2006, 02:06 PM
I didn't realize that he was marking inside of your home. What do you use to clean up the messes?
I would suggest that you go and get a black light and then go through your home to find all of the spots. Once you have found all of them they need to be treated with an enzymatic cleaner. He may have been a little groggy but your house may smell to him like a toilet. Unless you remove all the smells it will be very difficult to stop the behaviour.
I didn't get from your original post that he had been doing this inside.

You said that he wasn't leaving the incision alone. Does he have a cone to wear. I have seen some very bad results from dogs who have licked and/ or chewed at the area so you really need to keep him from doing this. There is also a cream that can be prescribed that will keep him from bothering with it if you didn't want him to wear the e-collar.

Bushfire2000
February 21st, 2006, 02:08 PM
Just be patient. You're doing a great job with Nicky! I'm sure the meds had a great deal to do with his behavior.
I had a very sweet little boy nuetered and he was very funny and not himself for a few days after. He also licked constantly but my vet was not too concerned. If he won't stop you might have to resort to a collar.
Little Elvis (now deseased) would run around doing his normal things and all of a sudden drop his bum to the ground and cry. It was as if he was mourning his "loss", more likley his activities had resulted in pulling of sensitive areas, that he'd forgotten about.
Good luck.

Mahealani770
February 21st, 2006, 02:17 PM
Thank you Bushfire. You have helped me with Nicky from the very beginning and I always appreciate your positive/helpful feedback. Thanks for the encouragement and because of your adivce as well as advice from Lucky Rescue, Nicky has come a long way. I use the techniques that you all have advised me on and they work wonders. You taught me how to cage train him when we need to leave the house and he has taken to his cage wonderfully. Also, he has come a long way with marking in the house which is why I was shocked that he did it twice, right in front of me yesterday. I freaked out a little bit and saw it as a regression or a result of the neutering and you know how worried I was about the neutering..lol..so thanks for helping me to feel better. I'll be patient and help him the best way I know how.
Thanks again,
Mahealani

StaceyB
February 21st, 2006, 02:17 PM
Dealing with someone elses mistakes can be very frustrating but it sounds like you are determined to fix his issues so just keep with it and you should see some positive results soon.
Getting him fixed was the best decision for him.

t.pettet
February 21st, 2006, 08:22 PM
Poms can be very strong-willed little fur balls (mum to 4) so consistency and not backing down will get the results you want. Do not feel sorry for him, get yourself a cone and make him wear it until stitches come out as you don't want the incision site to become infected - painful for him and more expense for you. He shouldn't have free-range of the entire house until he can be trusted to urinate only outside. I've seen alot of dominant little dogs who have been dumped because of their stubborn nature and the owners inability to train. Since whoever owned him before didn't even bother trying to find him he was very likely spoiled on one hand (because Poms are so cute) and physically abused on the other for being so aggressive, marking everywhere and acting like an un-trained, yappy, neurotic brat. You have made remarkable progress but now is not the time to let him away with bad behaviour just because he's feeling not quite right from surgery.

Mahealani770
February 22nd, 2006, 08:13 AM
Hello again friend,
Thank you so much for your most helpful advice. You have helped me from the beginning with Nicky and I want you to know that I appreciate you. Nicky does not have free reign of the house when we're gone. I have him used to his cage, which took some work, but he's doing great with that now. He is only free when we are there and can watch him. We had him house broken, or atleast we never saw him mark anywhere since those first few days of him being in our house. So, when he walked into the bedroom that evening and lifted his leg, twice, I kind of freaked out. I was afraid that all of our hard work was gone due to his surgery or for whatever reasons. He seems "back to normal" today. He didn't mark at all yesterday or lastnight so I let him sleep in the bedroom with us, which he usually does. The night he got home from surgery and peed 2 times right in front of me, I put him in his cage that night because I couldn't trust him. But all seems better now, except his eating. Eating for him is not completely back to normal but he's always been a "wierd" eater. He WILL NOT eat alone. He will not enter the kitchen to go to his food/water bowls without one of us escorting him. Sometimes I actually have to put food in his mouth to get him started and other times he'll go do it himself. It's been an interesting, strange, journey with Nicky and we just sit back and try to imagine what in the world his previous owners did to him to make him act so strange. I will continue to be patient with him and shower him with love. Thanks so much for positive advice/feedback. I appreciate you.
Mahealani

t.pettet
February 22nd, 2006, 07:19 PM
Perhaps his indiscretion (peeing & marking) was due to grogginess from surgery. You'll notice a calmer dog now that you've had him neutered although not for probably a couple of months. You've come a long way with this little guy and I know personally how difficult it is to not give in to them but of all the small breed dogs I have fostered and been mom to I think Poms are the most aware of how to manipulate people. I frequently watch my Tiffy, whose very bright, try to get the most attention by playing up a sore paw that there is nothing wrong with, only to completely forget about her (fatal) injury when tossed one of her stuffed toys and run around completely fine for the rest of the night. If I ask her in a very sympathetic voice how her poor little foot is she quite often holds up the wrong one. My oldest pom named Annie also has issues with food and will make 5-6 trips from her food bowl with mouth full to favourite spot in living room to eat, warning the others with stares and growls to not dare go near the stash. Don't you wish they could talk and solve all the mysteries of their pasts to their odd behaviour? Good luck with this little guy and keep reminding him how fortunate he is to have you as his parents.