AKC Breeding Out Herding Instinct?

First off...I'm not trying to start some hot topic here...just wondering if someone more knowledgeable than myself can answer a question. Everyone stay civil please! :p :D

Someone I know was ranting about how the AKC (maybe CKC too?) is breeding the herding instinct out of the herding breeds. Their logic was that in the past owners would breed their dogs that exhibited the best herding instict since the pups were going to be working dogs and needed to be the best possible. However, the way current dogs are judged at dog shows, herding ability isn't judged in the herding breeds...only physical traits (and health). By doing this the herding instict is slowly being bred out of these dogs. What does everyone think of this...is there some level of truth?

BTW...I know next to nothing about the AKC/CKC or dog shows since I've always owned (and always will own) rescues. I'm just curious if this is a valid argument because I'm the curious type.

Probably in some breeds there are few breeders who care about herding,but if you look at a lot of the comformation champions(herding breeds) you will also see that they having herding titles as well.Herding is slowly growing in popularity.I instinct tested my beardie,who was from a canadian breeder who had all comformation dogs on her fathers side but out of an english import who was a herding dog.I finally have bit of free time so I'm thinking of doing herding with my rough collie,we have a lady who teaches near us and it looks like fun.

It makes sense to me, although I'm not a pure-breed/show dog person... But if a herding gets anxious, sometimes they herd, so if in the ring, they get nervous and start nipping the judge in the hiney or in the ankles, chances are he won't win...

And the serious working dogs have to go through other competitions, no? Like sheepdog trials and the like, so showing and working would be separate.. Maybe?:o

Can't remember where I saw this...but I read an article awhile back on how some people think we are losing the true essence of some breeds by breeding to "show". I think it may have been one of the bullie breeds...it showed skeletal xrays over time of the evolution of the species and proposed that these changes had happened by breeding more for the "look" rather than what they were actually bred to do. I'll try to find that.

Of course, if you look around enough, you'll find obvious examples of this. Most GSD lovers cringe at the dogs they see in the show ring...very unsupportive of how the back end of those dogs look these days.

My family had a very drivey Australian Shepherd when I was a child and I almost cried when AKC started registering Australian's in the '80's I believe it was. The reason for rushing Aussie's into AKC was so that AKC could add herding trials to it's shows and make more money.

Ok - here is my two cents on the subject.

If I were purchasing a puppy, it would have to be registered with either the American Kennel Club of the Canadian Kennel Club. Those are the only two registries in North America that I consider worth anything. Having said that - a registry is nothing more then an entity that issues paper to show that dogs are purebred. They don't guarantee the quality of the dog or anything like that - just that both parents are purebred of the same breed.

Yes - conformation is strictly a "beauty show". The purpose is SUPPOSED to be to judge breeding stock according to the standard. The standard is supposed to be written so that the dog is capable of doing the job it was intended.

Personally, when I get my rottweiler puppy (whenever that may be in the future) I want the parents to have done well in the show ring so that I know that physically they meet the standard. I also want the parents to have working titles. These would include obedience, agility, rally, flyball, herding - something along these lines. That shows me that the parents are not only physically able to do the job they were intended to do, but they are mentally sound and able to work.

I've heard that people are particularly worried about border collies, which before they were registered had a widely varied appearance--erect ears, droopy ears, long coat, short coat, you name it. The best herding dogs were bred for herding, so who cared what they looked like? Now that there's a show standard, the concern is that only animals that have this, that, and the other trait will be bred, even if they can't herd at all . . . while Bingo over there with the crooked ear and wrong shape of face, who is a marvelous herder, won't get bred.

~LM~

Thanks everybody. I wasn't aware of herding titles being given out...although the argument made some sense to me.

But if a herding gets anxious, sometimes they herd, so if in the ring, they get nervous and start nipping the judge in the hiney or in the ankles, chances are he won't win...

That would be hilarious! :D

I need a herder to keep Gabby in line! She's a wacko. :p