February 3rd, 2006, 12:35 PM
This is the new updated 2006 list that I found on another forum. Odd how some foods are missing.. (ex. Solid Gold Hundenflocken and Mmillennia are included but Wolfcub/Wolfking are not :confused:
Back to Basics: www.beowulfs.com
Bench & Field Holistic Natural Canine: www.benchandfield.com
Blue Buffalo: www.bluebuff.com
by Nature BrightLife: www.bynaturepetfoods.com
California Natural: www.naturapet.com
Canine Caviar: www.caninecaviar.com
Chicken Soup for the Pet Lover's Soul: www.chickensoupforthepetloverssoul.com
Cloud Star Kibble: www.cloudstar.com
Drs. Foster & Smith: www.drsfostersmith.com
Eagle Pack Holistic Select: www.eaglepack.com
Firstmate Dog Food: www.firstmate.com
Flint River Ranch: www.flintriver-pet-food.com
Fromm Four Star Nutritionals: www.frommfamilyfoods.com
Go! Natural: www.petcurean.com
Innova Evo: www.naturapet.com
Karma Organic: www.karmaorganic.com
Lick Your Chops: www.healthypetfoodsinc.com
Limited Diets: www.royalcanin.us
Merrick Pet Foods: www.merrickpetcare.com
Natural Balance Ultra Premium: www.naturalbalanceinc.com
Natural Choice Ultra: www.nutroproducts.com
Newman's Own Organics: www.newmansownorganics.com
Performatrin Ultra: www.performatrinultra.com
PHD Viand: www.phdproducts.com
Premium Edge: www.premiumedgepetfood.com
Prime Life: www.ompetproducts.com
Royal Canin Natural Blend: www.royalcanin.us
Timberwolf Organics: timberwolforganics.com
Wellness Simple Food Solutions: www.oldmotherhubbard.com
February 3rd, 2006, 04:47 PM
I think if you read the whole article it says something about there being too many foods to test and that in the case of some foods it has only listed one food in their line and that all foods made by that company are of equal quality therefore not necessary to list. This is of course not word for word but it says something to this effect if I remember correctly.
February 3rd, 2006, 05:48 PM
I still find that list weird because they list the Solid Gold foods on their own. :confused: But the data for it is probably old and Wolf King came out in late 2004 I think. I know it's good.:D For now.
February 5th, 2006, 06:19 PM
I just looked at The Whole Dog Journals 2006 Best Food List and saw First Mate listed. As this is a Canadian dog food that I have not checked out, I went to their website. I clicked on Puppy Food to see the ingredients: chicken meal, wheat, chicken fat, fish meal, corn gluten meal, corn, beet pulp, vitamins, minerals, fish oil, then all the hard to pronounce stuff. I think First Mate must have paid them to get on the list with corn gluten meal and wheat being in the first five ingredients. I too am getting really ticked off trying to find the "right" and "proper" dog food, especially when I see a "premium" dog food with ingredients like that.:eek:
February 5th, 2006, 07:05 PM
And the beet pulp being before the fat means it's in large quantity. Lotsa corn.:rolleyes:
February 8th, 2006, 09:14 PM
I have to add ... I can honestly say I'm completly confused about dog food right now :confused:
I switched my two to WolfKing about 6 months ago and they were great at first but then my lab mix got the runs ... and they never went away! I mean, he'd have one semi solid poop then runny again and he was going to the bathroom at least 5-8 times a day!!
My female was a little better but she seemed to be putting a little weight on. What I didn't like the most was the little amount of food they were getting (and I might have been over feeding them a bit too!) My pups get alot of exercise a day - between 3-4 hours of running, hiking, walking and they acted like they were starving - digging in their bowls :eek:
I actually got my male tested to see if he had some disorder (I forget the name of it) where he couldn't properly break down his food - something more common in german shepherds the vet said - but him being a rescue, I don't really know what he is!
Anyways he doesn't have that ... so I started researching dog nutrition. I'm in the middle of a book called Canine Nutrition by Lowell Ackerman and it's pretty interesting .. and a lot confusing ;)
One of the interesting things he points out is that "premium" is just a word companies use and actually has no real meaning ... so Iams could say "premium" food and be correct I suppose.
Another thing he points out is that people are always so concerned about the ingredients when we should actually be concerned with the nutrients and essential amino acids.
Hopefully when I get to the end I'll have a better idea what the heck I'm talking about :p and I might actually be able to make a choice and be happy about it!
February 9th, 2006, 12:04 AM
The starving thing is normal for Wolf King eaters. My doggies act starving every day too, but only because they love it so much. With all the salmon, it's a very tasty food.
As for the runs, ingredients are fine and good, but if they don't agree with your dog, you have no choice but to switch. I'm curious though as to how much you were feeding to think you were feeding very little. Boo is doing well on 2.5 to 3 cups a day (I vary depending on activity) and he was 87lbs last time we went to the vet. With a more dense food, with no stool hardeners, etc, you have to feed less, but reduce gradually. Dogs are used to a quantity in their bellies, and if you reduce it too much, they can develop a crazy apetite, even if they're getting enough kcal each day.
February 9th, 2006, 08:38 AM
It took my dogs a few months to adjust to this new food. I have heard people call it a detox period. This may have attributed to yours having the runs but after 6 months if they are fed the right amount they should no longer get them.
My golden female weighs in around 65 pounds and gets 2 cups per day of Solid Gold, Wolf King. My male who is around 75 pounds gets about 3 cups per day. I vary the amount based on their activity levels. On weekends for example when they can run and swim all day I will increase their food intake. This can mean adding real meats, sardines or more kibble.
If you are feeding the right amount and your dogs are only getting the Solid Gold (no other treats) then perhaps this food does not agree with them. If they are getting treats, or other food then I would try just kibble feeding for awhile to see if this helps. A co-worker had the same problem with her dog with a WEllness food. As soon as she switched to another holistic food the runs stopped. When my dogs at Nutro, Natural Choice they began vomiting yellow bile every day. It just did not agree with them.
Sometimes it is trial and error.
February 9th, 2006, 09:00 AM
I agree it is trial and error. I went through quite a few different kibbles before finding one that worked. The entire Solid Gold line of foods didn't agree with my dog at all. I'm actually thinking it's the millet.
Right now we are trying the Performatrin Ultra Chicken & Brown Rice. So far so good. The runny poops are very few and far between now. It's only been about 2 weeks on this food and I'm seeing improvement already.
I basically use the Whole dog journal food list as a starting point and pick and choose my way through it. Although it took me a year to find a kibble that works for my dog. lol
February 9th, 2006, 09:49 AM
I think I was feeding too much on the Wolf King. Both were eating around 3 - 3 and a half cups a day and they are 62 lbs and 67 lbs. SO that probably explains the runs in my male.
We switched to Solid Gold from Hills Science Diet :eek: I know, what was I thinking!! I just assumed the vets were right. Of course, on Hills they got ALOT more kibble!
Has anybody tried Dick Van Pattans Natural Balance?? The girls at the petstore seem to think my dogs have allergies to something in the food. My female does get alot of ear infections, but she has always gotten them while eating different foods so I never thought to blame the food. (I just keep my bottle of Otomax close :p )
I switched the dogs cold turkey to Royal Canin but I can't decide if it's a decent food or not! They are on different ones, my female on the lab formula and my male on the german shepherd formula. The good thing was the runny poops stopped right away and my male is starting to look like he's finally putting a little bit of weight on (he is so skinny) My female had actually lost 2 pounds when we last at the vets but I don't think the ingredients are the greatest.
It's way too confusing with all these foods and conflicting information :evil:
Back to the Canine Nutrition book ;)
February 9th, 2006, 10:00 AM
Does the royal canin have corn, wheat, by-products, beet pulp, "meat", "poultry" or any other unidentifiable animals?
DVP is much better than Royal Canin, but if they are allergic to the usual suspects (wheat and corn) then Wolf King would have helped.
February 9th, 2006, 10:35 AM
Both RC formulas have beet pulp - sugar removed it says and the lab one has corn gluten - Both contain soy or soy oil which I read something about but I can't remember ... Does it tend to cause allergies?? I'll have to go back and check it out!
I think DVP has some allergy formulas and also an organic one that looks pretty good. It has No soy • No eggs • No dairy products • No sunflower oil • No wheat • No corn
February 9th, 2006, 07:41 PM
Last year when I was looking for a new food I did all kinds of reading and talking to other dog people and settled on two foods. One was Dick Van Patten's and the other was Solid Gold. I went with the Solid Gold because I knew someone who was feeding and was seeing wonderful results. On occasion I buy the DVP roll and add it to my dogs food as a treat. They love it. They do have an allergy formula, Duck and Potato and many dogs with allergies do very well with this food. The only Royal Canin that I would recommend is the Holistic Blend which is now made by Techni-cal I believe. I don't know if they changed the ingredients.
Using the Whole Dog Journal as a starting point is an excellent idea.
February 9th, 2006, 10:57 PM
Soy can cause allergies and it can cause bloat in bigger dogs too. Beet pulp is a stool hardener that releases a toxin that sort of paralyzes the colon for a bit to slow the food down. Basically a chemically induced constipation... DVP is definitely better.
February 10th, 2006, 12:05 AM
The food that is listed in Whole Dog for Firstmate Dog Food is the Platinum Plus formula, which lists chicken, chicken meal, whole ground brown rice, pearled barley, organic spelt, and whole steamed potatoes as the first ingredients. So it looks like a better food than that puppy variety. But the WDJ's statement regarding which foods make the list is this:
"The foods on our list are not the only good foods on the market. Plus, we've named just one variety in each line by each maker. Usually, all the other varieties in a given line also meet our criteria."
At least there's a qualifier in there ("usually"), and I'd have to say that I "usually" agree with that statement. I just think that Firstmate puppy food is one of those exceptions!
I looked at the royal canin foods when we were switching and they're definitely not the worst on the market, but there are definitely better. And I don't 'get' all the separate varieties. Just a gimmick to make people think they're getting the best, if you ask me.
February 10th, 2006, 09:27 AM
I too wondered what the difference could be between the breed specific foods. The ingredience are a little different but the thing I noticed is my lab (eating the lab one) has less calories per cup - 294 or something close to that and the german sherpherd one that my male eats has 321 calories per cup.
I like that because my male has always been a skinny lanky dog (I should post some pictures because I'm curious what the mix is!)
One more question ... my female has been licking her paws quite a bit I think - I'm trying to remember if it's gotten worse or was always like this! That could be a sign of an allergy couldn't it?
February 10th, 2006, 11:51 AM
Definitely. Jemma gets itchy paws from ragweed, but they could get itchy from any allergy.
February 11th, 2006, 08:27 AM
If you want to continue feeding Royal Canin, then I would recomend the Holistic Blend rather than the breed specific ones. The Holistic Blend is quite good.
February 11th, 2006, 09:39 AM
I think I'm going to go to the Royal Canin Holistic Blend or to Dick Van Pattans Organic Blend, or DVP Vegetarian Formula ... Now I just have to decide between the 3!!
Any idea which of the 3 is the best choice?
February 11th, 2006, 01:44 PM
I can't find the Royal Canin Holistic blend. All I get from their website is Natural Blend. Is that it? Natural blend (http://www.naturalblend.com/SCHPRD.HTM) If it is, I'd go with either of the DVP food. The natural blend is not too natural IMO. There's brewer's rice in there and beet pulp...
Why would you give vegetarian food? Usually you end up having to feed a substantial amount more because a lot of the stuff is not entirely digestible for doggies. And for the organic DVP, I just wanted to point out that the first ingredient is rice, not chicken, but it's still better than the Natural Blend, IMO.
February 11th, 2006, 01:54 PM
What the hey? I think either of the other 2 are worth a try, but IMO "VEGETARIAN" does not belong on a dog or cat food label unless you've determined by some terrifically odd stroke of chance that your dog is allergic to all animal protein--Dogs aren't vegetarian. Since you suspect allergy, I would try one of their foods with a novel protein and without grains before going to the vegetarian food--the fish & sweet potato, potato & duck, or the venison formula.
February 11th, 2006, 02:32 PM
I think it's TechniCal Holistic Blend - that's the confusion because (I think) They seem to be the same company - and yeah, it's the natural blend one I kind of have in mind.
As for the organic DVP formula here's the first 6 ingredients: Natural Chicken, Organic Brown Rice, Chicken Meal, Organic Oats, Organic Millet, Organic Barley
I bought a small bag of this today to try out!
The reason I'm not looking at some of the other formulas is they all have a fiber content of 3.0% maximum and I have found that my guys seem to have runny poops when on foods with fiber below 4.0% - I don't know if that's just been a fluke or there is something to do with that!
February 11th, 2006, 02:36 PM
The PetValue girls seem to think it's an allergic reaction to the chicken - that's why they've been leaning towards the vegetarian one. But yikes!! how crappy would that taste?? ;)
If the itching continues with this next one I guess it could be the chicken - then I'll have to try the duck or the venison!
February 11th, 2006, 08:13 PM
Actually, I'd go for the fish and sweet potato or the venison because Boo can't eat chicken and duck makes him puke too.
As for the organic DVP formula here's the first 6 ingredients: Natural Chicken, Organic Brown Rice, Chicken Meal, Organic Oats, Organic Millet, Organic BarleyYou'll notice that the 1st chicken is not dehydrated, so it will actually fall after the grains in the ingredient list once it's cooked and loses all its moisture.
February 11th, 2006, 09:14 PM
Sneaky buggers these dog food guys!! ;)
February 11th, 2006, 10:25 PM
Yes they are. They really, really are. Even the best of them.
February 12th, 2006, 07:55 PM
Based on ingredients I would definately go with the Dick Van Patten's before the Royal Canin or whatever they are calling it now. Someone said Royal Canin bought Techni-Cal but the Royal Canin bags now say Techni-Cal so who knows who owns whom. Confused yet?:D
February 12th, 2006, 10:05 PM
I thought Techni-Cal was the Canadian version?? Or Canadian at least but I see that Royal Canin bought it (or merged) My bags did say Royal Canin.
So I tried the Organic Chicken last night - mixed in a little bit with the Royal Canin foods and my male was up through out the night with the runs again :eek:
Is it possible he just can't handle foods that rich? He is a rescue and I'm sure pretty poorly bred which probably doesn't help.
My female seems to be doing alright so far and doesn't seem to be scratching as much today.
I gave my male the Royal Canin itself again today and back to my research. Could it actually be chicken that's the problem? I wonder if I should try lamb or duck and see if that's any better.
And people wonder why I'm so passionate about spaying and neutering ... I just point out my poor guy with his MANY issues and phobias .. well .. at least he ended up with me I guess. :)
February 12th, 2006, 10:30 PM
[QUOTE=les] I switched the dogs cold turkey to Royal Canin but [QUOTE]
It could very well be that they just haven't been on a single food long enough recently to see how they will stabilize on it. I noted that you switched fast on to the RC...and just recently tossed in a new food ... DVP maybe, I might have lost track in the thread.
I wouldn't be surprised to see things that might indicate an improvement (no runs) with a new food in the first couple of days if they were switched fast...the body sort of goes into shock. Then a couple of days later...bam, you see the results of the switch. That doesn't mean they won't do good on the food in the long term, but some dogs just can't adapt fast.
Harley is a pain when it comes to food...I've had to take WEEKS to switch her fully on to something new. I lucked out with the Solid Gold. Transferred her on to that from the Nutro over the course of a month and a half and haven't had to look back since.
In my experience...any switch of food has to be very slow and easy.
February 12th, 2006, 10:36 PM
Well I switched to Royal Canin cold turkey because they both already had the runs - I didn't figure it could get worse then the runs 5+ times a day!
Last night I only mixed in 25% new with 75% old because I was trying to go back up to a higher quality food.
Like I said, my female is doing well. It's my male I can't seem to figure out!
They were on Solid Gold for about 6 months - no real improvement in my male - female was on and off runny, solid.
Switched to Royal Canin about 3 weeks ago and saw great results right away with the poops - but then they started to scratch about a week later - I was hoping it would pass but it hasn't.
So I've switched quite a bit in the last few months but I know it takes some getting used to on their part :)
February 12th, 2006, 10:38 PM
Could it actually be chicken that's the problem?
Could very well be the chicken, but you won't know until you've switched him onto something different for awhile and watch for changes.
I avoid chicken, turkey and duck like the plague with Harley. She just seems to have an intolerance to poultry of any kind. I'm talking excessive itching, shedding, the works.
I supplement her Solid Gold every evening with Merrick's canned, but only with blends without poultry. Ever since cutting bird out of her diet, her itching and shedding has been significantly reduced (she's the type who will always shed...)
February 12th, 2006, 10:47 PM
Hmmmm, and the bison didn't seem to agree with him either. Now he's not as bad scratching as my female is - he gets the runs and my female gets the scratching, licking, ear infections :eek:
But I hope I've found the solution for her - I don't think it was the chicken.
Him, I still don't know. Maybe I give lamb a try and see if it is a poultry thing. I feel so bad for the poor little guy - that's why I thought the Royal Canin German Shepherd one would be good - supposed to be easy to digest. Now if they'd just take out the corn, the soy and the chicken! :p
February 12th, 2006, 11:19 PM
Go with either the lamb, fish or the venison, but not duck. IMO, avoid all poultry for a while.
February 13th, 2006, 09:00 AM
My vet recommends Venison for suspected chicken/turkey/duck allergies. Lamb is no longer considered an uncommon protein.
DVP makes a Venison and Brown Rice. I would try that, unless you can find another Venison kibble. My vet also recommends giving the new food 6-8 weeks before you try switching again because you might not see improvement right away.
February 13th, 2006, 10:27 AM
Okay, one more question ... for now, believe me there will be others!!;)
So the organic Dick Van Patten ingredient list looks like this ...
Natural Chicken, Organic Brown Rice, Chicken Meal, Organic Oats, Organic Millet
And the first ingredient is actually rice because the chicken is NOT dehydrated - Prin pointed out and I have also read that in my studies.
So here is the vension and rice list of ingredients ...
Venison, Whole Grain Brown Rice, Rice Flour, Venison Meal, Rice Bran
So is that not the same thing?? The main ingredient being rice not venison? And yet, it's pretty expensive that food (around $65.00 CDN for the big bag)
Now when I look at the Wolf King ingredients it looks like ...
Bison | Salmon Meal | Brown Rice | Millet | Cracked Pearled Barley |
So at least a meat/fish is the main ingredient.
The more I read through this book and think about it the angrier I get ... how can they be allowed to lie about their ingredients?
February 13th, 2006, 12:18 PM
Yep. Venison falls after the grains. So does the bison in the Wolf King. But you also have to look at the number of grains. Like Merrick Wilderness blend...Wilderness Blend (http://www.merrickpetcare.com/store/detail.php?c=14&s=20277)
Buffalo, Oatmeal, Barley, Salmon Meal, Venison,Whole Brown Rice, Canola Oil Grains come first, but there are still very few of them. They also say that you look for the fat, in this case, Canola oil, and everything before that makes up the bulk of the food. Wolf King is a bit more grainy than this one, even if it has a protein as the first ingredient. But Merrick is probably much more expensive and harder to find.
Timberwolf organics has some interesting protein sources (bison which is really salmon food too, and elk, and fish...)
Look at their Ocean Blue, Dakota Bison, and Wilderness Elk formulas. Don't fall in love though because they're impossible to find in Canada, unless you're in BC. TimberWolf Organics product/order form (http://www.timberwolforganics.com/cgi-bin/cp-app.cgi?&pg=ste_oform#)
It's hard to find a food that you don't have any problems with. So far, that's Wolf King for me. Everytime something scary is discovered about food, Wolf King doesn't have whatever it is (knock on wood). :)
February 13th, 2006, 07:41 PM
If you want to try Merrick kibble you can get it through Paulmac's Pet Food in Ontario. Here's the link to check store locations. You may have to order it, so call ahead and ask. http://www.paulmacs.com/
I had priced the 30lb bag of Wilderness blend and it was 65.99 I believe plus tax. The other varieties might be cheaper.. not sure.
The other varieties are listed here...