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Bullies in vehicles to be muzzled...

Conners
January 25th, 2006, 08:30 PM
I've looked through the act and can't find where it says our dogs need to be muzzled in vehicles, yet people are being pulled over for their dogs not being muzzled. Thought that was what the temporary muzzles were basically for. From home to vehicle. Are vehicles not private property same as your home or back yard? Are the police making up this stuff as they go a long because the law is so vague? Anyone else hear of this one before? :mad:

babyrocky1
January 25th, 2006, 08:44 PM
Where did you hear that people were being pulled over???? Thats scary!

BMDLuver
January 25th, 2006, 08:45 PM
No, haven't heard of that. I know a transport for a pit went from Brampton to Montreal and we were all told that she only needed to be muzzled when out of the vehicle for a pee break or transfer. Very odd they are doing this. If it's the case, I'd be in court arguing about that one.

Conners
January 25th, 2006, 08:55 PM
I heard it on one of the DLCC forums, but I can't keep up with them. By the time I want to reply they are talking about something totally different. That's why I'm asking here.
A cop pulled someone over to give them a warning about their dog not being muzzled in the car. Someone else was going on a trip and wanted to know if they had to be muzzled. That was the first I ever heard of it too and don't know how to find out for sure.

babyrocky1
January 25th, 2006, 09:32 PM
Im o that site too Conners, when did you hear it? I can look for it if you like. Sometimes people on there post about things that happen in the states or possible it was part of a municipal bilaw???? It seems that so far cops arent even involved in enforcement of the bilaw. :confused:

gdamadg
January 25th, 2006, 09:35 PM
It is required in the City of Pembroke, I started a thread about it. I'll look for it and post it here.

gdamadg
January 25th, 2006, 09:36 PM
Here it is.

http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=21654

babyrocky1
January 25th, 2006, 10:50 PM
that is ridiculous, but even in that one, the dog only needs to be muzzled if you have other "company" in the car, other than immediate family, so if you have a second cousin in your car, then you have to muzzle your dog:rolleyes:

Conners
January 25th, 2006, 11:14 PM
It wasn't this forum, but it could have been referring to Pembrook. I don't know. I've never heard of it near here. But when it referred to the mug shots of the dogs, London did that. When BullLover and I went to register our dogs, she asked them if they had all this other information and the microchipping that was 'suppose' to be for 'their' safety, then why the two pictures as mug shots of our dogs. They told us it was the law. If it were the law, then it would have been required throughout Ontario. Had she of said it was the by-law, then that would have made more sense since London has been giving us a hard time, but that's not what she said. She specifically said, "it's the law!"
So when it comes to the cars, who knows what else they will throw at us. I hope you are right. Not for Pembrook, but for the rest of us.

Conners
January 25th, 2006, 11:26 PM
I wrote the DLCC forum and asked whether it was certain parts on Ontario or all. I will let you know when I get a reply back. Hopefully I can catch the post in time. *sigh*

mona_b
January 26th, 2006, 09:04 AM
Conners,just a suggestion,give your nearby station a call and ask them..To just make sure that who ever said that they were pulled over by the cop isn't just trying to scare everyone.:)

I also suggest that others do the same thing if they are hearing things that involving the cops and Pits....We only step in when there have been dog attacks or bites.

I have stated a while ago that the cops are not included(for now)to do any stopping of anyone whos' Pit is not muzzled....And I sure as heck can tell you that our station(and many others) would not be doing something like.

gdamadg
January 26th, 2006, 10:44 AM
I have already had a discussion with the officials in Pembroke about this and if I leave Sprint alone in my truck, as I do not live there, but pass through. And the nearby township is built up right to the edge of the Pembroke City limits, as Pembroke was not willing to let "big business" build in the City. They said they would enforce the by-law and it was unadvisable to leave my dog alone in my truck. The police are not enforcing, it is just their 1 by-law/animal control officer. Which has something against all big dogs. Well I have a short fuse, and advised them that if they touch my truck or pull me over to enforce this, they better have a damn good lawyer. That is my private property.

Conners
January 26th, 2006, 03:29 PM
Conners,just a suggestion,give your nearby station a call and ask them..To just make sure that who ever said that they were pulled over by the cop isn't just trying to scare everyone.:)

I also suggest that others do the same thing if they are hearing things that involving the cops and Pits....We only step in when there have been dog attacks or bites.

I have stated a while ago that the cops are not included(for now)to do any stopping of anyone whos' Pit is not muzzled....And I sure as heck can tell you that our station(and many others) would not be doing something like.

Thanks Mona, I just called Animal Care first and they said it was a violation of the act as it wasn't the properly enclosed property specified under the act. Meaning the properly confinded area as specified on your property. So she said, yes it was a violation to not have your dog muzzled while in your vehicle.

I then called the London Police Department and she went to double check as she did not believe it was required for them to be muzzled. She returned saying, 'No! There is no law about that.'

So it seems in London, that the police are not seeing it as a violation, yet London Animal Care does.
How's that for a brain boggler for someone who is already confused? :confused:

gdamadg
January 26th, 2006, 04:34 PM
as it wasn't the properly enclosed property specified under the act.

The act is not specific when it comes to "properly enclosed property". I think your vehicle (unless loose in the back of a pick up truck), is better enclosed that a 5 foot fence around a yard. I don't know about your dog, but Sprint can easily clear more than 5 feet from a stand still. Besides the fact that your vehicle is your private property. If the cops say it's ok, and Animal Care says something, I would call the police right then and there to claim harrassment. The law is there to protect us as well.

Georgiapeaches
January 26th, 2006, 04:58 PM
Well, it seems as though London ACC cannot decide.
I called them twice in November to find out regarding a pitbull in the vehicle and whether it is required to be muzzled.
I was told both times that your vehicle is your property(Which it is...noone else paid for it, pays the insurance, maintenance) and aslong as the dog does not have access to the public (ie. no window can be open, door, etc.) then a pitbull does not need to be muzzled. Basically, going directly from one point to another without stopping, and when you reach your destination put the muzzle on before stepping out of the vehicle.

gdamadg
January 26th, 2006, 05:04 PM
We all knew it would happen. This is the result of a vague law and no clear direction. Giving every "authority" room for their own interpretation. I am suprised we haven't heard more cases like this.

Conners
January 26th, 2006, 06:54 PM
Well, it seems as though London ACC cannot decide.
I called them twice in November to find out regarding a pitbull in the vehicle and whether it is required to be muzzled.
I was told both times that your vehicle is your property(Which it is...noone else paid for it, pays the insurance, maintenance) and aslong as the dog does not have access to the public (ie. no window can be open, door, etc.) then a pitbull does not need to be muzzled. Basically, going directly from one point to another without stopping, and when you reach your destination put the muzzle on before stepping out of the vehicle.
The woman I spoke with at AC didn't sound concerned one way or the other. She just told me under the act blaa blaa blaa. She basically said if you were pulled over, you were in violation.
If the police don't see it as a violation, then they have no reason to pull you over.
But then again, that is in London and that doesn't mean it wouldn't be a violation other places, so yeah, it's best to call your police department and see where you stand. Doesn't help if you are travelling though because you can't call each towns and cities police department.
I wish May would hurry up and come and start the fight with all the loop holes in this stupidly vague act.

mona_b
January 26th, 2006, 10:38 PM
If the cops say it's ok, and Animal Care says something, I would call the police right then and there to claim harrassment. The law is there to protect us as well.

Sorry to say,but we won't be able to help in this matter(claim harrassment)

This muzzle law has nothing to do with us.It does with Animal Care or whoever...This is "their" law in writing..If they are doing what they are supposed to be doing,then we can't go against them.

Example.

Conners is in her car with Shasta(no muzzle)..I drive by her and wave,she waves back.....:D ......Then all ove a sudden I get a call on my radio to go to the corner fo such and such street.....I get there and Conners has blown a gasket cause Animal Care has stopped her for not having Shasta muzzled....Conners tells me she is being harassed by Animal Care....I look at Conners and have to sadly say to her,I'm sorry Conners,I can't help you with this,it's out of my hands.I can't go against their "law" and I can't stop them from doing what they are supposed to do.

Understand what I am trying to say here?.....:)

babyrocky1
January 26th, 2006, 10:45 PM
I dont understand it Mona, only because from reading the "law" it seems that it isnt against the "law" to have an unmuzzled pit in the vehicle. Even in the post that Gdamadog gave us the link says that, unless other occupants of the vehicle arent immediate family:confused: its okay. So what is the law thats being referred to? Or is it that even if they are wrong about the law the police cant interfere, they must hash it out in court?

gdamadg
January 26th, 2006, 11:42 PM
That is where this gets stupid. This is a provincial "law" and it should be enforced by all "peace officers". If Animal Control is there and a Police Officer is called to the scene for harrassment or so on, they would be the ones taking over. This "law" does not take your rights away. No where in the Dog Owners Liability Act does it state anything about muzzling your dog while in your vehicle, as far as I can see. If that was the case then they would have to be muzzled in your fenced yard, a situation that has a higher risk of your dog getting loose and "attacking" someone. Maybe someone can point it out for me? I would bury myself into a hole fighting something like this.

mona_b
January 26th, 2006, 11:59 PM
I dont understand it Mona, only because from reading the "law" it seems that it isnt against the "law" to have an unmuzzled pit in the vehicle. Even in the post that Gdamadog gave us the link says that, unless other occupants of the vehicle arent immediate family:confused: its okay. So what is the law thats being referred to? Or is it that even if they are wrong about the law the police cant interfere, they must hash it out in court?

I'm trying to understand it myself now...Reason being, I just checked out that link.LOL

The updated DOLA of Ontario has nothing in regards to Pits being muzzled in cars.But Pembroke seems to have added it to theirs,which I do find a bit strange.I really can't see how they can just add something like that.And how they went about adding it.BUT since it is there in black and white,then that means it's a part of their bylaw that gets enforced.All I can say is if anyone needs to go to Pembroke,then have a copy of what gdamadog posted.This way if it's just you/immediate family,they "can't" give you a hard time for not having the dog muzzled.You are abiding by "their" bylaw,and I am sooo sure you could fight it in court.;) ...Now I am talking about Pembroke....So who knows what other cities are doing this.:rolleyes:

And even have this one on hand.

http://www.attorneygeneral.jus.gov.on.ca/english/about/pubs/dola-pubsfty/dola-pubsfty.asp

mona_b
January 27th, 2006, 12:14 AM
That is where this gets stupid. This is a provincial "law" and it should be enforced by all "peace officers". If Animal Control is there and a Police Officer is called to the scene for harrassment or so on, they would be the ones taking over.

It is enforced by all peace officers..But remember it is the AC that deals with the animal issues...Police deal with the human issues..If AC is doing their job,and what they are supposed to do,the the Police can interfere in it.....Hope that made sense..LOL...It's been a LONG day.

Conners
January 27th, 2006, 01:55 AM
It is enforced by all peace officers..But remember it is the AC that deals with the animal issues...Police deal with the human issues..If AC is doing their job,and what they are supposed to do,the the Police can interfere in it.....Hope that made sense..LOL...It's been a LONG day.
Poor Mona. You need your sleep! ;)
Happily I don't drive under doctors orders, so it's not me that would be driving. I'd wave to you anyway though. LOL
Does AC stop vehicles? I thought they only came out if they received a call regarding animals and that would be to your house.
One last question if you don't mind. Say I didn't phone AC. Say I only phoned the police who told me it wasn't against the law. How could AC intervene what the police has already told me it was not against the law?

Amiga Girl
January 27th, 2006, 07:32 AM
There is no way that I'm muzzling Amiga while driving in my car! She can no longer enjoy a walk without a muzzle, will never be able to pick up that "perfect stick" she finds, or play catch out in the back area of my building..... I'm not taking away her right to an exciting car ride! She gets so excited and regardless of the length of trip, will pant the whole way there, a muzzle on her may have some serious health consequences. I will do my best to NEVER have to drive in, around or through Pembroke, and hopefully the London ACC gets correct information some time soon. I asked a few questions to the lady there when I went to get my dog "grandfathered' and she didn't know the answers and told me to call the city. So much conflicting or assuming information!:mad:

Amiga Girl
January 27th, 2006, 07:36 AM
Sorry for my rant! I got a little fired up this a.m reading this thread! hehe

mona_b
January 27th, 2006, 09:17 AM
One last question if you don't mind. Say I didn't phone AC. Say I only phoned the police who told me it wasn't against the law. How could AC intervene what the police has already told me it was not against the law?

AC can intervene..The reason being is that we(as of right now)have nothing to do with this ban..Remember,it's not us who have the power to stop you if your dog is not muzzled.We are not the ones who check Pit owners to see if they have been S/N....

If this is what the by-law says,then we have to go along with it.

The only thing we get involved with in regards to the DOLA is if someone has been attacked by a dog..And this is a dog of ANY breed.

We have better and more important things to deal with....PLEASE don't get me wrong,this ban is important,but it just has nothing to do with us..

I really hope this didn't confuse you.....;)

And I know you are not driving,I just needed you for an example....:D

Also,remember that we also have to abide by the laws/bylaws...:)

Georgiapeaches
January 27th, 2006, 09:58 AM
Mona, I'm sure it's like that where you are, but in reality the police in London have stopped people walking their pitbull down the sidewalk.

I know someone personally who has been stopped while walking their female pitbull. On the other hand, I have spoken to a few individual police officers and they stated they refuse to enforce the pitbull restrictions, but will enforce if any dog is dangerous.
My only experience:
I was walking Georgia one night and a police officer was standing on the street next to his paddy waggon (I did not know but, there had been a robbery in the area and certain sections of the streets were blocked off while searching for the suspect). She was muzzled and wearing her bunny ears (it was Halloween evening). He asked me what I was doing and I thought, oh crap here we go. I told him she was muzzled, spayed, registered and complying with the law. He said, "I really don't care". He was extremely nice, commented on how cute Georgia was and talked to me for a few minutes and then said we should get home to be safe.

Conners
January 27th, 2006, 02:36 PM
Mona, I'm sure it's like that where you are, but in reality the police in London have stopped people walking their pitbull down the sidewalk.

I know someone personally who has been stopped while walking their female pitbull. On the other hand, I have spoken to a few individual police officers and they stated they refuse to enforce the pitbull restrictions, but will enforce if any dog is dangerous.
My only experience:
I was walking Georgia one night and a police officer was standing on the street next to his paddy waggon (I did not know but, there had been a robbery in the area and certain sections of the streets were blocked off while searching for the suspect). She was muzzled and wearing her bunny ears (it was Halloween evening). He asked me what I was doing and I thought, oh crap here we go. I told him she was muzzled, spayed, registered and complying with the law. He said, "I really don't care". He was extremely nice, commented on how cute Georgia was and talked to me for a few minutes and then said we should get home to be safe.
I've only gotten good responses from the police in regards to Shasta. I think there was some kind of a bust around my place as there were lots of police and cars while Shasta and I were walking. I had my handy dandy clipboard with petitions, so I approached some.
They complimented me on Shasta and said that they are not allowed to sign when on duty, but one officer lives in the area said he would when off duty.
I've NEVER found the police to be a problem at all. Matter of fact, when general public see you and your dog sitting by a cop talking, I think they get a better impression of the breed, especially when the cop pats her and admires her.
It's this stupid law and bylaws. When I called London HS they didn't know and told me to call London AC. That's how well this law is written. If this is the case, why didn't AC give us a brochure of the does and don't of the city, or the province when we got them registered? They sure put a lot of pressure on us at Christmas time. You'd think thy could give us something as a reference.

gdamadg
January 29th, 2006, 10:02 PM
I wish I didn't have to drive through, by, or any where near Pembroke either. But I live in a small community that is close by and a lot of the things I need are there. I try to do most of my shopping in Ottawa when I am visiting my gf, but that is not always possible. As for the police, there are 4 different forces in the area (RCMP, OPP, MP, and Pembroke Police) and I am not worried about any except for those employed by the wonderful City of Pembroke ;) . I don't mean to offend anyone by my next sentence, but it is the best way to explain it. Pembroke is a very backward, religiously guided, and ignorant community. It is controlled by several of the founding families and if you are not part of one of these families in one way or another, you are highly scrutinized.

If you are ever in the area, skip Pembroke and keep going to one of the neighboring communities. It is a very friendly and beautiful area. LOL, I can't believe I said that, it took a long time for this place to grow on me. ;)

Copper'sMom
February 1st, 2006, 08:53 PM
that is ridiculous, but even in that one, the dog only needs to be muzzled if you have other "company" in the car, other than immediate family, so if you have a second cousin in your car, then you have to muzzle your dog:rolleyes:

I just can't get over this! How idiotic can people get??? Obviously these people think that Pit Bulls "turn" and that's why they have to be muzzled if you have anyone other than immediate family in your vehicle with the dog. But in their eyes, I guess it's ok for the Pit to "turn" on it's owners then.:confused: :rolleyes: What a bunch of freaking morons!:mad:

So, I'm surprised that it's not a by-law to have to muzzle your dog when you have company at your house! What's the difference between your vehicle and your house besides you are in close quarters in a vehcle?? Oh what a world! A messed up world!:mad:

wdawson
February 1st, 2006, 11:07 PM
the other day there was a discussion on the radio(1010 cfrb in toronto) about some guys watching porn on a dvd player in the car at a rotten ronnies(McDonalds)drive thru , 80% said that if the car was on public property then it should be against the law to have porn playing out in public , this also brings up another issue , what about a person that has been drinking and driving and then realizes that he should pull over and sleep it off , police come , charged with care and control , same as impared driving , these laws are so vague.........maybe with a new government we will get some clariffication:confused:

mona_b
February 2nd, 2006, 09:00 AM
Mona, I'm sure it's like that where you are, but in reality the police in London have stopped people walking their pitbull down the sidewalk.

Actually it is the same there.

While finishing my paper work the other day,I had a few minutes to spare.I sent an email to them(London).I was informing her that we don't have anything to do with this ban,and that I have been told that they do to a pont.Which I mentioned about them stopping Pit owners...Well I recieved a reply from Arlene(Sgt)

She has confirmed to me that they also do not stop Pit owners randomly on the streets...The only time they have anything to do with this ban is if they get complaints..But this is something they have to tend to with any breed.As we do here.

I will be sending her a reply as to what can be done for those who are being stopped.As they should not be.

This person that you knew who got stopped,what did the cop say to them?

Maybe they are being stopped cause the cops are dog lovers and just want to pet them....:)

Georgiapeaches
February 2nd, 2006, 10:46 AM
Mona, they were stopped and asked if their dog was spayed, which she is.

Personally, I have only had good experiences when talking with police officers about the ban. A policewoman I met at the vets about a month ago, said she will not enforce the pitbull restrictions, she will only enforce if any dog of any breed is dangerous. That was an amusing situation. A policewoman was petting Daisy, meanwhile a woman on the other side of the room was grabbing her two children closer to her, mumbling about how pitbulls are dangerous.
:rolleyes:

edit: and maybe if you are sending a response back, could you inquire about their role in the new London pitbull bylaw?

Conners
February 2nd, 2006, 01:25 PM
BullLover and I were driving to Woodstock for our CGN training and decided to leave the muzzles on while in the car as a precaution. Anyway, those muzzles hurt when you get banged at. My arm got scratched (tiny) but enough to break the skin with a trickle (small trickle) of blood. Jokingly I told BullLover, call ACC, I've been attacked!
I'm an easy bleeder so it doesn't take much, but all the same, what if that happened to someone else? I'm talking about dogs with muzzles ON!
Doesn't the law say an attack is when the skin is broken to the point of blood?
The dogs are always banging the windows, etc as they are so used to having their noses close to things, but the muzzles are far beyond their noses, so naturally they must feel a little off kilter. It would be like putting high heels on your child and saying walk lady like.

Joke: How can you tell a Pit bull owner?


Answer: By the bruises on their body!

mona_b
February 2nd, 2006, 10:37 PM
Mona, they were stopped and asked if their dog was spayed, which she is.

I will definately be looking into this.

She is right in saying she would not be enforcing the restrictions..As Arlene already stated,they are not doing this.

Untill the Police Stations are told differently,none will be enforcing it.This is left for the AC.They are the ones dealing with it.:)

I will ask about it.

But if it's the same as the Ontario Pit bull bylaw under the DOLA,I already know the answer.:)