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Adoption

Continental
January 7th, 2006, 09:22 PM
Hello everyone. I'm new here and I hope that someone can answer my questions. If someone gives up a pup to a group to place into an adoptive home, but that group does not abide to everything said to the person giving up the pup, can they ask for the pup back? And if so, in Ontario how long do they have to do so?
The person giving up the pup assumed that it would be placed into a certain home within a few days, only to find out that the 16 week old pup will be spayed first before doing so. The adoptive home agreed to have the pup spayed, but at a later age of 5-6 months. The person giiving up the pup is upset and may want the dog back, because they to do not want the procedure done at this time. The person giving up the pup wants to know if they can get the pup back and place it into the home they thought it was going to themselves. Any help would be appreciated.

Prin
January 7th, 2006, 10:20 PM
Can I ask why they don't want the spay done? More and more studies are showing that it's actually more beneficial to the animal to do it before puberty (at or before 12 weeks), and frankly there is no difference in a 4 month old dog and a 6 month old dog as far as the procedure goes. I just don't understand what the fuss is. Most rescues will neuter/spay before rehoming, to reduce the risk of the new owner not doing it and the dog ending up in a puppy mill.

Continental
January 7th, 2006, 10:28 PM
Can I ask why they don't want the spay done? More and more studies are showing that it's actually more beneficial to the animal to do it before puberty (at or before 12 weeks), and frankly there is no difference in a 4 month old dog and a 6 month old dog as far as the procedure goes. I just don't understand what the fuss is. Most rescues will neuter/spay before rehoming, to reduce the risk of the new owner not doing it and the dog ending up in a puppy mill.

They would actually want the home adopting the pup to have it done with their vet in case of any problems and for any follow up's that may be needed. It's not a matter of not wanting it done, but by whom and where. Secondly, many studies have shown problems with urinary tract infections occur with dog spayed under five months of age. The proponents pushing for spaying/neutering at younger ages have mainly been city shelters funded by city councils in order to reduce the amount of dogs brought in and strays, with recue groups tagging along. Im not saying that it's a bad thing, but in this situation the home adopting the pup will do it, but in a month or two. Yes, you are correct that there is no difference in the procedure in regards to age, but some problems do occur in the younger pups.

amber416
January 7th, 2006, 10:42 PM
So they are upset about a difference of one month? Any responsible rescue would have any animal they adopt out spayed or neutered before they go to their new home, in my opinion. A lot of people say they will spay or neuter down the road, but that doesn't mean they will actually do it. I don't know about the legality of it all, I guess it would depend on what's in writing.... all of the rescues i know of around here require anyone surrendering an animal to sign the animal over to their group/shelter. Rescues don't have the time to mess around with people changing their minds, i would imagine.

mona_b
January 7th, 2006, 10:44 PM
This person giving up their 16 week old pup doesn't have the right to pick and choose which vet is going to do the spay.IMHO...This person signed the pup over..They have no say in anything.

The SPCA or whoever it is have their own vets.And very good ones.

As for the UTI's...It's not due to early s/n....I know of no one(including myself)who have had any problems with the early s/n.

When I adopted my cats,they were both done at 8 weeks...One is 2 1/2,the other will be 2 in March...Absalutely no health issues.

I think that the early s/n before being adopted out is a great idea.Wish that all sheters and pouds would do this.

Why is this person giving up a 16 week old pup?

Prin
January 7th, 2006, 10:53 PM
I really don't see how removing ovaries and sex hormones causes more bacteria to enter the urethra. They're two completely different systems and infections are usually caused by external sources or overgrowth of the resident bacteria. Resident bacteria of the bladder and urethra are not dependent on anything from the reproductive system. The only thing that might cause a UTI is being under the gas as that stresses the immune system and can create bacterial imbalances- but that can happen at any point in their life.

But if you are really worried about UTIs you can feed probiotics and cranberry supplements.;)

CyberKitten
January 7th, 2006, 11:40 PM
If you do even a cursory search on Lexis Nexus or any medical - vet database, there are absolutely NO studies that even suggest a correlation between early spay/neuter and uti's. There are quite a number of studies on this issue now - I am not entirely sold on the early s/n procedure for my own pets but I have not found any of the problems you forward. I do think it is essential for pets to be s/n previous to adoption and if someone wants to do that privately, that is up to them and they should pay for it and the costs associated with the adoption. (and the other vet checks, vaccinations and so forth). If they bring the pet to a Rescue or group like the SPCA, they in fact legally surrender their right to have anything to say in the care of that animal.

BMDLuver
January 8th, 2006, 07:07 AM
If they signed a surrender paper of any kind then they need to just walk away as they gave up all rights to the pup. A vet would not alter the animal if they felt it was in any way going to be harmed by this procedure. I suggest that you tell your friend it's time to let go and walk away.

coppperbelle
January 8th, 2006, 07:55 AM
Did they sign a surrender agreement? If so, they have given up their rights to this puppy.
Don't worry about the puppy. He is probably in a foster home with a very experienced dog owner who will know what to expect after a spaying, neutering.
That said, if the old owner wants their dog back they could always contact the rescue group and ask if it is possible.
As said any reputable rescue group will ensure that any dog that is adopted has been spayed, neutered beforehand.
I am getting a feeling that there is more to this story.

Continental
January 8th, 2006, 09:38 AM
I appreciate all the input in regards to spaying but the brunt of it is that this person gave up a member of their family due to certain circumstances with the understanding that she will go to the home of a certain person ( who already has dogs and has no intention on breeding) within days, not weeks, and who will use their vet for any further shots and for the spaying. The adoptive home has close to thirty years experience with this specific breed. The person who gave up the pup feels a little betrayed. The foster home has the intention of giving the pup to the adoptive home the day following the surgery which will be close to two weeks after the pup was surrendered. This is not a debate over the right or wrong of spaying at a certain age, only the wishes of the person giving up the pup and those of the adoptive home. The people who gave up the pup mentioned that had they of known that this course of action was going to be taken they would have gone directly to the adoptive home.

Lucky Rescue
January 8th, 2006, 09:55 AM
Once someone surrenders their animal to a rescue group, the ownership of the animal passes to the rescue and they may rehome it as they see fit.

The rescue did the right thing by spaying this puppy before placement. Any rescue who adopts out intact animals is NOT responsible, so good for them for doing it!

4 months is certainly old enough for spaying. Depending on the breed, it could be in heat by 6 months and get pregnant. A responsible rescue does everything they can to ensure that this will not happen.

No, your friend cannot take the puppy back.
The people who gave up the pup mentioned that had they of known that this course of action was going to be taken they would have gone directly to the adoptive home.

Why didn't they do that?
Why involve the rescue at all? I"m confused about that part...

BMDLuver
January 8th, 2006, 10:09 AM
A prime example of why many rescues sever all ties with the person giving up the animal. Honestly, these people gave up their right to make decisions for this pet. It sounds harsh but why use the services of a rescue if you don't trust their judgement.

Frenchy
January 8th, 2006, 11:14 AM
I'm with BMD on this.It's hard enough for rescues to help all the animals,finding fosters,get the animals at the vets and then find the perfect family to adopt.They don't have to "please" every demands from people surrending their pets to them.Remember,most people from rescues are volunteers and do this for the well being of animals,not for the people that can't keep their pets.We do what we can!!!!

SnowDancer
January 8th, 2006, 11:27 AM
As I was reading your original post, my first thought was exactly as was posted by Lucky - why didn't the original owners just give the pup to the adopting family. Why involve the rescue at all? At this point all they can do is walk away. I did once adopt a dog from the Humane Society who was not spayed. I was given a voucher for $90 to put towards the cost of spaying at the Toronto Humane Society - cost would be higher because she was a large breed - but would be given credit. The dog was so pathetically grateful to get away from the building that I just did not have the heart to take her back there for the surgery. Apparently after walks by the staff she would fight going back in and she had been there for considerable time. So I had my long time vet due to the surgery and paid the full cost. But your situation is different. The dog was surrendered to a rescue, not the Humane Society. Frankly I did feel at the time that I should have been able to submit my vet's bill to the Humane Society and be given credit for the $90 but that wasn't about to happen and as I was more comfortable having it done by my vet for the sake of my dog's emotional state, I was happy to pay for it. A dog surrendered to a rescue would of course be very nervous - but for different reasons. I can't see why having the surgery done by the rescue's vet should be a problem.