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wild cats relocation

scuba0095
December 20th, 2005, 01:39 PM
Hello

I was just wondering do many feral cats exist in ontario? that are to wild to be pets?? If so are they usually just put down when trapped? What if instead of being put down someone was willing to work at having them fixed and setting them free on their owned land? Would also provide unlimited amount of food? Or is this illegal?

Lucky Rescue
December 20th, 2005, 02:11 PM
I"m sure there are tons of feral cats in Ontario. Some are tameable, and some are not. Others are not feral, but have been stray for a long time and are just frightened.

Feral cats taken to shelters are killed right away, since there is no place for them and no one will adopt them.

Some rescues trap, neuter and release ferals. But they should not be released to any place where there is not adequate shelter and a steady supply of food.

If you want to construct a warm shelter, have the cats spayed/neutered, and keep them on your property, that would be just wonderful!!:)

They have to be confined at first, until they realize they can stay there and won't run off.

happycats
December 20th, 2005, 02:15 PM
there are MANY feral cats in Ontario especially in rural areas.
I don't believe there is any law preventing people from having feral cats run free on their property, I have found most to be unaltered, adding to the overpopulation problem that already exits! But I know of some rescues that offer to alter them then return them to the property/farm.

scuba0095
December 20th, 2005, 02:20 PM
hello

My family has a business and in the build it has a HUGE (dark basement) Many rats live down there. There is a trap door that takes you down there. Just curious If i released a few feral cats down there provided them with UNLIMITEd amount of food also gave them the option to leave as they like. (part of our business is a small forest so the cats would be free to prowl it whenver they like and they would not even be tress passing because we own it all! Rabbits live there for now. But to be honest if this is in fact a good idea i would be willing to work with someone trap a wild cat that is not tamable and release it here. We would help pay for its transportation and other costs like maybe to get fixed??? ANyways just a thought if anyone was interested in preventing a cat from being put down and wanted to release it here i am very willing to work with them!

scuba0095
December 20th, 2005, 02:22 PM
ps i would nEVEr do this with a house cat i am just thinking of those cats who are totally wild and cant be tamed.


Also willing to take in more then one! Just a thought!

kayla
December 20th, 2005, 04:34 PM
That is such a great idea Scuba! You got the wheels in my head a turning too, I'd also love to do something like that (once I move into a house)!

heather331
December 20th, 2005, 07:38 PM
i live in north carolina, usa, but we have a organization here that does that. they capture stray and feral cats, alter them and then release them. there were alot of them at the apartment complex i use to live in. some were more friendly than others. they usually went under the buildings for shelter or on people's porches. Most people that i knew that lived there seemed to enjoy the cats. i even named them!!!! Poor cats were probably confused. everyone probably called them something different. oh well they got fed though. i fed them, others fed them, and someone from the organization that altered them would come and feed them. the only bad thing about it is that after they altered the cats they had to some how mark them so that they would know which ones they had already done so they wouldnt capture the same ones again. they did this by snipping off the end of a ear..... :sad:

Derek & Jeter
December 20th, 2005, 08:11 PM
That's an fantastic idea.:thumbs up

My aunt has been doing that for years in a rural area. They turned their back porch into a shelter. Money for heating bills is not a problem for them.

Rabbits live there for now.
Would the rabbits get along with the feral cats?

Coincidentally, after I read this I went to a recycling site in Toronto and for the first time I saw a dog house. Member site but it's easy to sign up. They have them in small towns too like Durham, Georgina etc.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreecycleTO/message/9175

Dog house for a medium to large size dog...very sturdily built - you will need two people to load it and a van/trailer/pickup. Needs a little TLC - a paint job would go a long way.....but will definately keep your dog warm this winter. - Don Mills, GTA.

I have to go grocery shopping in the next 1/2 hour. If you're interested I could e-mail the guy before I go out.:)

Lucky Rescue
December 20th, 2005, 08:41 PM
Would the rabbits get along with the feral cats?

Well, the cats would find this agreeable, since rabbits are prey and cats are predators who kill and eat rabbits.;)

Dog houses are great, as long as they are snugly insulated. Shelters usually need to be small enough for the body heat of the cat to warm it, but you can line a doghouse with styrofoam and rig a light bulb inside, which gives a lot of heat.

scuba, your basement sounds fine, as long as cats are spay/neutered. It's certainly better than freezing and starving outside!:)

CyberKitten
December 20th, 2005, 09:06 PM
AlleyCatAlleys is a wonderful web site with info about feral cats and how to care for them. There are others as well but that one comes to mind. My grandmmother maintained a feral cat colony - occasioanny - mostly at my sisters and y insistenece, we would trap some of the babies - once they were about 8 weeks old (I have since read you need to get kittens before 6 weeks but 8 did work for us and we would socialize them - I am not sure if tame is the proper word.) We'd also trap as many mamas as we could the day the farm vet was coming and sort of cajole him into spaying them - and we would care for them until they were ready to return to the colony. We had several heated buildings for them with blankets and newspapers and straw and hay and tons of food - therte were very few mice on this farm after a very short period so if you are planning on having permanent mousers, mice will not be a problem very long.

As a rabbit lover, I would worry about the rabbits!! Can you find hutches and places to seperate the two - that would the the only acceptable way to me I am even tho I know rabbits are natural prey fir cats, I cannot bear to think of bunnies as food! (even for kitties!)

scuba0095
December 20th, 2005, 09:55 PM
Hello

Sadly the rabbits will not get along with feral cats and these are not tame rabbits just wild ones. If they are lucky hopefully they are fast and cunning enough to escape the cats! I guess I have a lot of thinking and researching to do on this subject. The basement I would release them in is HUGE and its pretty good heated but its extremly dark. The whole reason we were thinking of getting cats is because feral cats are exceptional hunters and I am sure they would hunt and kill the rats in the spare time that they have down there! Also the rats would probably try and eat the cat food eventually which would put them in the open to be attacked. I know feral cats are not native but rats are not native either and nothing can control them better then tenacious ferals! Part of our land is a whole mini forest (where just the rabbits live) Nothing else lives in it but we see the odd cat (someones pet) And once i have seen a fox there. I amd wondering if it is a good decision as i can easily afford to feed the cats but my question is would this be a good thing? The rats are causing us TOTAL HELL, I do love cats and to turn the rats colony/home into a wild cat home sounds a lot better.

happycats
December 20th, 2005, 10:00 PM
Something to consider, even after altering, many feral cats still spray (even tame ones do) I have also seen altered female cats spray, could you handle the stench of cat urine in that basement?

scuba0095
December 20th, 2005, 10:05 PM
wow this is news to me is it common for a spayed female to spray?

happycats
December 20th, 2005, 10:09 PM
I believe if a cat is fixed prior to sexual maturity, they don't normaly spray, but if things change (new cat brought in, re-location) they may start.
Also all the altered female cats at our summer trailer park sprayed !

Lucky Rescue
December 20th, 2005, 11:19 PM
I"ve had a large number of cats, and none ever sprayed except for intact males. Even with them, the spraying stopped after neutering. However there are no guarantees.

Not all cats - tame or feral - are good hunters or even have much desire to hunt. Depends on the individual, so if you are really looking for rodent control, you might be disappointed. Besides, rats can be fierce opponents and could injure cats. One of my cats had his gums opened to the bone by a squirrel he killed!

If you want to take some cats in, you must do it because you want to give them refuge. Any rodent hunting they do would be a bonus.

The basement I would release them in is HUGE and its pretty good heated but its extremly dark.
You did say they would have access to outside, or some light?

scuba0095
December 20th, 2005, 11:30 PM
yep they would

Derek & Jeter
December 21st, 2005, 01:18 AM
Lucky Rescue said

I"ve had a large number of cats, and none ever sprayed except for intact males. Even with them, the spraying stopped after neutering. However there are no guarantees.

I used to live in a rooming house (front with a porch and a pet door for my male cat). The neutered (at 12 mo.) cat down the hall was constantly spraying in my porch (he used it to come into the house) but nowhere else. My theory is that he was trying to make that his porch or territory, because he had no pet door. He wanting to stake out the porch as his territory. My cat was spayed at 7 months and never sprayed in his 18 years, to this day. In your case they would all get equal treatment.

So, maybe you could feed them good food (canned and dry with gravy? in the middle etc.) outside ,as long as it's above freezing and put cheap dry food in the basement and shelter (not worth spraying for).

Stack wooden boxes with one opening at the front, just large enough for them to curl up in, in the basement and an outdoor shelter. Line them with cheap carpet and add little dishes of water. Like I said above feed them and the ferals will think they're in heaven :party: and maybe act a bit sociable.

If you want to take some cats in, you must do it because you want to give them refuge. Any rodent hunting they do would be a bonus.

Everyone in my house had mice except me and the other cat owner - they can smell cats easily and the rats might move out within a short while. But, you'd have to maintain your refuge to make sure they stay away.

The dog house I mentioned is probably warm (insulated, I could ask) because the people at that site don't fib, and it's transportable which means it has a floor. Insulation if not there already could be placed underneath. Guess you're undecided about that.

As I continue with this essay :D

If you do a search for K-9 dog houses you can see designs or buy blueprints for housing used by police dogs. They're off the ground and insulated. Just turn them into apartment buildings.;)

scuba0095
December 21st, 2005, 08:58 AM
Hello good idea. I agree with you on the rodent thing i have talked to various farmers in the area they laugh when i tell them about the amount of rats around here! Most of the farmers say they have not had a trace of rats since they go barn cats! When growing up our neibours cat would go into this abondoned barn and kill rats at night in the morning we would usually see a big dead rat on their poarch usually it was all ripped up :sick:

Derek & Jeter
December 21st, 2005, 01:41 PM
This is kind of graphic, but... Hungry cats (lions, tigers, feral cats) normally attack the jugular (neck) and try to kill the animal fast. This is common sense as they don't want it to escape, or try to eat a moving target. Many of the prey go into shock, which dazes or numbs them. I used to watch National Geographic :yuck: but can't watch that stuff now. So this is from memory and may not be totally accurate.

A well fed cat may be confused and play with the animal (cruel) because it's not sure why it's chasing it (instinct's there but it's not desperate for a meal).I know because I used to rescue mice from my well fed cat.

My point is don't feed them at first or you'll have a little torture chamber going.:eek:

This is getting complicated for something that might not happen:confused:

Maybe you should search for humane ways (put the rats on birth control pills:) ), rat traps (like mice traps)?

Once the rat population is way down start feeding them and they probably won't bother with the bigger fast rabbits.

Re: the free doghouse -
I'm going to try to find a chained or outdoor dog owner who might take that doghouse - someone with an outdoor dog in their neighbour's yard. With a paint job, that house might be the key to getting an outdoor dog with a cheap owner in out of the cold, before some nice person with an indoor dog takes it.
:pawprint: :pawprint:

scuba0095
December 21st, 2005, 02:30 PM
My point is don't feed them at first or you'll have a little torture chamber going.


hmm i thought cats only do that with smaller prey? larger prey like rabbits and rats they have to kill instantly because they have the ability to put up a fight

CyberKitten
December 21st, 2005, 03:15 PM
Please don't jump all over me but recall that I am someone who still in mourning for my geriatric bunny who died 2 yrs ago. I love bunnies. I have wild ones on my woodlot and I refused entry on my property to someone wth his cat for that very reason - and I LOVE cats!!! But this is the bunnies' refuge and my baby is buried there.

I appaud you for wanting to do this but it MUST be for the interest of the cats and not just to acquire some hunters. I have to admit I am getting a mized message - you want to help establish a feral colony but you want that colony to catch youre mice/rats? That is not a good reason to create a feral cat colony and unless you have other reasons - ie, you atre a strong believer in the s/n program, a tried and true process that really works and often requires a groups to manage it. You will need to set up a group - unless you are like my grandmother and can mobilize your village to help you. But if you were develiping a stratetegic plan and mission for this, trhe mission has to be to keep the cats safe and healthy and tyo spay and neuter them - which means getting some vets involved. Have you talked to local groups? There are many s/n programs in Ontario tho I am sure more would be welcome!! But unless you find a way to protect the rabbits - who were there first - this is like feeding them to the lions. It;s unfair and makes me wa t tp cray (literally!!!). So please think about how you are going to develop this. And the idea of having cats as mousers is number 11 on a list of 10 reasons to have a feral colony. As LR said, many cats do not make goos mousers. Many stratys are in fact house cats who eithert got loose , were dumped by uncaring people. If I were you, I would gather the rabbits up and find the closest Rabbit Rescue Society if you plan to do this , I will gladly help you find the closest Rabbit Rescue in your area., Rabbits are NOT lessert creatures than cats!!! You need to potect them as well, wild or not!!

Derek & Jeter
December 21st, 2005, 03:56 PM
CyberKitten - I was away from the computor while the posting page was up, so I didn't see your post, until after I submitted it. I'm not making light of your concerns. I love herbivores like rabbits just as I do cats and dogs.

scuba0095 - this post after CyberKittens may have interupted the flow of your thread, sorry...glad you're taking feedback and keeping an open mind.
Cats aren't like people. If they're hungry I don't think it matters what size the prey is. They don't want to waste time playing with it (exception maybe being kittens who are still learning). Unlike sports hunters :( they don't kill for fun.

Just had a happy thought:

Pressrelease: Scuba0095 gets Citizen of Year Award :queen:

What started out as a rodent problem becomes ... little animal sanctuary in a mini forest...after grant from the town...large older stray cats and a few ferals each have seperate quarters...in dreamy hideaway away from animal control :evil: ...feeding shelter for wild rabbits set at opposite end, to keep them out of cats area. Rats not getting any handouts get mad and leave town.

I better sober up and go do some work! :D

scuba0095
December 21st, 2005, 04:13 PM
Hello

Nothing is written in stone yet as i am still in the proccess of learning and thinking about it.

YEs to be honest rats were what got me thinking about this in the first place.

But i do really love cats and if i took ferals in i would consider them MInE and i would protect them and care for them.

The rat problem got me thinking at first and then i realized that many feral cats are put to sleep trapped etc.. and thought instead of having them killed if they are to wild to be pets why not keep some feral cats around the building? I could help them buy giving them a warm place to stay and shelter from the wind and unlimited food and they could help me but help keep away unwanted animals?

YEs I must admit i am not only thinking about the cats but i am thinking about myself as well (getting help with eliminating rats)


As far as the rabbits in the summer fall they live in that forest behind the building (I am assuming) I have not seen them since the summer though they are either hibernating or the fox that i saw back there killed them all off. Maybe they will come back in the summer? Its wierd sometimes i see them there and sometimes I dont.

These are all the animals i have spotted hanging out in that area

Porcupine

skunks
raccoons
red foxes
rabbits

So i am sure the rabbits provide food for the skunks and coons which are wild animals and need to eat also. BUT PLease remember I posted here cause i wanted to talk about it and see etc... Nothing is for sure.

scuba0095
December 21st, 2005, 04:20 PM
there are also many many many domestic cats that frequent the forested area already i have seen numerious occasions where a cat had a baby rabbit in its mouth or a cat was hunting. At night while i took my dog to go to the bathroom there one night we crashed a feline party! A bunch of cats gathered around and seemed to be socializing, one look at my barking dog they all SPLit and took off lol BUt i dont think these are feral cats theiers many houses around there and i bet everyones domestic cats just make use of that area and have fun in it.

scuba0095
December 21st, 2005, 04:27 PM
derek the funny thing is i have always had a dream of doing that for cats. WHat first got me inspired was the cats that live behind the parliment. SO many homeless cats strays etc.. made a home there and enjoy it. I reall ywould love to do that one day but maybe I am not ready for something like that? I wish i knew others that were interested in such things because it would be nice to feel like you made a differance.

CyberKitten
December 21st, 2005, 04:36 PM
The problem is Scuba that while some outdoor cats (and my cats are not allowed outdoors except on a leash - they are too valuable to me!!) are good hunters - many are not. The ferals she has in her colony will take much care and money - you have to feed them since say 1/3 of them would actually catch mice or rodents or even God forbid bunnies!! But most will rely on you for food. I only know how our colony was managed and it took a lot of money, time and effort!! You have to make sure they arew warm in winter - thus, have blankets and special housing for them, spay and neuter them and you can get discounts at vets but they also must be vaccinated and since ferals live longer in colonies than alone, the difference is still not as good as that of a house cat. So you need to set aside a few thousand at the least for vet care - I know ours was always at a minimum of $6,000 and that was many years ago!! Feral cats get into more fights, are attacked by other animals soo of course they need more vet care - you will have to trap them and take them in at least once a year.

Then there are the kittens!! If you do not manage to have every Queen spayed, there will be baby kittens and not all Queens are good moms. Sometimes, another Queen will step in ut not always so set aside a few weeks to care for bottle babies - and the mama couild die and you would be left with the kits,. Then you need to find that brood a good home so you will be in the adoption business.

I am not trying to discourage you - but I think you need help yo do it is all - and the fact that you are interested in s/n and saving feral cats has to be the reason for doing this.

Good luck!!

chico2
December 21st, 2005, 04:44 PM
Scuba of course you would make a difference,a big difference to the poor cats with no food or shelter,as long as you do it right.
My 3 wellfed cats,hunt mice all the time in our shed and backyard,but they would never eat them,only torture them and I have to step in and rescue the poor things.
I do believe though,if there are many cats around the rats would find another place to call home.

badger
December 21st, 2005, 05:11 PM
cyber, thank you for bringing some of my own concerns up, mainly that most cats are hopeless at hunting.
Although I appreciate your enthusiasm, scuba, it's the kind of project that, if not done with the kind of dedication - not to mention money - Cyber describes above, it could be a disaster for the animals. Why don't you put out some food near a place where they can access the cellar, maybe some of them would go in spontaneously and if they were successful, maybe they'd keep coming back until your problem had improved. But to release them into an area where they might end up being trapped - I'm not clear yet on whether they could come and go, and how - might end up in a huge catfight and a huge vet bill!