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Clearly in it for the money

Prin
December 19th, 2005, 03:56 PM
My bro decided to vaccinate his doggies today. They haven't been vaccinated at least since they were dumped on him (and then his apartment burned down, which made things harder). He went to the vet three blocks from his home after I had told him exactly what his doggies needed. The receptionist there told me distemper, rabies and lepto were $81. I figured that was an ok price (not the cheapest, but not a rip either).

Then I get a call from him while he's at the vet. He says the vet is refusing to give the shots. So I talk to the vet. He said he was refusing to vaccinate the dogs because what my brother was asking for was incomplete vaccination. I said, "What are you talking about? He's getting all the basics." And the vet said my brother refused Bordetella, and he will not vaccinate a dog without giving the dog everything it needs. Just being on the sidewalk was enough to NEED bordetella, he said. And the cost with bordetella added? $107!! $26 more for one vaccine the dogs don't need at all.

So I told my bro to walk out.

If you were in it for the animals, wouldn't you give whatever vaccines you could? I mean these dogs were probably never vaccinated ever, and this vet would rather give no vaccines at all than not give bordetella. Is that whacked? Seems to me, to help the dogs, you'd give the bare minimum if you could. I mean, if he walked in and said "Just lepto", I'd give just lepto. A dog with lepto is better than a completely unvaccinated dog, no?

Anyway, in this day and age when people are vaccinating less and less, it's very disappointing to see a vet vaccinating to the max. :sad: (He still vaccinates the whole package every year too. :mad: )

StaceyB
December 19th, 2005, 04:26 PM
The vet was right that the dog can pick up kennel cough on the sidewalk meeting another dog but it is still an optional vaccine. The booster and rabies is the bare essentials. The lepto and bordetella are optional even though I would recommend them both. 26.00 is about double what I pay.

Inverness
December 19th, 2005, 04:29 PM
Bordetella doesn't even always do the job... since there are many strains of kennel cough just like there are many strains of flu. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Bordetella has ALWAYS been optional when vaccinating a dog...

jessi76
December 19th, 2005, 04:32 PM
You'd think being a vet he'd know that the bordetella vac does NOT protect against every strand out there. My vet prefers NOT to give shots when not necessary - they never insist on the bordetella one... in fact, I had to request it for Tucker, since he needed it to attend daycare, and before giving the shot, I got a lengthy lecture on it from the vet - how it does not protect against every strand, your dog can still get kennel cough, etc... and then was asked a 2nd and 3rd time if I was SURE I wanted it.

even on other vaccines, like the new one for lyme disease, my vets office gives out an informational pamphlet on it, pro's and con's, and lets the dog owners decide for themselves. I really wish more vets were like that.... another reason we've been using the same vet for 20+ years.

That's a real shame though... I hope there are other vets in the area your brother can go to.

doggy lover
December 19th, 2005, 06:16 PM
None of my dogs have ever been given a shot for that, they never needed it and my vet never said that it was needed either. Sounds like he is in it for the money, it is not required by public health.

StaceyB
December 19th, 2005, 09:10 PM
Because I have to check vaccinations regularly I see what each vet does with regards to vaccines. I find that some vets will just do the bunch, others will ask you and some won't say a word, you have to ask them. I have never heard of a vet refusing to give vaccines because someone said they didn't want one of them. If I were your brother I would be contacting the college and placing a complaint.

Prin
December 20th, 2005, 12:43 AM
Well, I'm bringing him to my vet tomorrow.

The bad strains of bordetella have no vaccines yet. They are like the flu shots, where the research is always lagging behind. It is very rare to get it off the sidewalk because it's not that robust a bacteria. In kennels where it's warm (above zero) but not too hot (like a sidewalk in the sun) then the bacteria can thrive, but on a sidewalk? You'd have to pass by right behind a kennel cough dog who is coughing the whole way.

And even if your dog does get the bacteria, unless they're weakened for some reason, they'll get over it in less than 10 days. To me it's not worth preventing in active healthy dogs who aren't going into a kennel.

In every vet I've been to, it's been optional. The fact that this guy refused to vaccinate anything just turned me totally off from it. That's definitely not in the best interest of the animal. My vet won't even give all the vaccines in one day- how do you know that a dog you've never seen before is strong enough to get 4 vaccines in one day and has no allergies to them? That's just off.

SnowDancer
December 20th, 2005, 11:56 AM
Bortadella is optional at my vet's as well. Since there are so many strains, they do not include it with regular vaccines since dog will pick up a different strain and people come back to complain. However, they definitely will recommend it to someone who asks - and do suggest it for dogs who go to socialization, day care or are boarded - actually most facilities insist on it. My pup received Bortadella shot last Jan. and will be receiving it again Jan. 7 - other shots are done in May. So far no Kennel Cough - thankfully, since I will never forget my Beagle's KC in 1976 when no treatment was available.

Rottielover
December 20th, 2005, 12:01 PM
my vet does not even reccomend boritella unless being boarded

StaceyB
December 20th, 2005, 12:20 PM
It is called Kennel cough because it used to be most common in kennels. Yes there are several different strains as with the flu but the vaccines are constantly being re-done to try to include as many strains as possible, same as the flu vaccine. Though it is not 100% it will protect against many of the known strains. Dogs in kennels are not getting it as often because it is a mandatory vaccine for these places. All of the cases I have seen are dogs at parks and on the street. I treat mine for this because they go to the parks and I have those who are attending daycare have it. The main reason is the cost to the person to treat their dog if they get it. It is 12-15, usually for the vaccine and well over 100 to treat if they get it and the dog must then stay away from others until they are clear.

Beaglemom
December 20th, 2005, 01:52 PM
My vet doesn't give Bordatella or lepto vaccinations unless the owner wants it done. My vet will give the basics that are required and then the rest is optional. He may recommend them based on where your dog visits and if your dog is in frequent contact with other animals or places visited by others, but doesn't force them on you.

My vet also gives rabies shots every 3 years and lepto every 2. So with us, the vaccinations can cost very little or a lot depending on what Misty is getting that particular year.

You have to choose your vet very carefully as there are ones out there that do over charge or are in it for the money. Some vets are also very pushy when they find out you have pet insurance and then they start recommending a whole bunch of stuff be done. I like to think that this is the minority though. It took me a while to find a vet clinic that I trusted completely, but I think the majority of vets are in it for the care of the animals.

Prin
December 20th, 2005, 05:22 PM
Stacey, why $100 for treatment? With Boo (he had is coming out of the SPCA), we didn't pay anything but one consult fee and when I was working at the vet, if they needed antibiotics they paid a bit more, but antibiotics are quite cheap.

My doggies have been going to dog parks since the day we got them and never have they gotten kennel cough. Nobody in our park has ever claimed to have gotten kennel cough at the park.

Lise
December 30th, 2005, 09:29 AM
I do my guys for both kennel cough and lepto.Kennel cough since I board dogs and my guys are in and of kennel with me and interact with a lot of dogs.I also do lepto since that has been on the increase in recent years,it is transmitted through rodents mainly and being out in the country mice are pretty much a fact of life.Your vacc prices are alot higher than us though,I pay 160 for three dogs full vacc and exam.I don't board a dog that isn't fully up to date including kennel cough and lepto.I agree that kennel cough is not100% since it is caused by a variety of virus,but I feel it offers the best preventation so far.

StaceyB
December 30th, 2005, 09:49 AM
Last time I checked it was 115. In this area you see it coming out of the parks quite often, especially this time of year for some reason. This summer was also bad but it is usually Jan. that I hear about most cases.

Beetlecat
December 30th, 2005, 02:22 PM
This is partially why I buy and give the vaccines to my dog myself (excepting rabies).

It seems like vets always either try to sway the unsuspecting customer or insist upon either giving more shots than neccesary or more often than neccesary.

And almost every vet I know will not give the shots at all without a checkup before. Which is fine, I suppose, but I know my dog is not sick and a check up is unecesary and just adds to the cost. Especially when all they do is check the eyes, pulse etc. All things I can and will do myself.

SnowDancer
January 7th, 2006, 03:31 PM
We paid $75 plus tax for Bortadella vaccine today. If my guy comes down with different strain of Kennel Cough - and I know it can happen - his VetInsurance will cover treatment because we took preventative action. I never want to go through a bout of Kennel Cough again - not pretty with a Beagle in 1976 Ottawa.

Melinda
January 7th, 2006, 03:40 PM
my best friend, Daisy, 4 yr old lab/dane/rotti died May 13, 2005 of lepto, please please have that shot given, in fact, in canada, if your dog received the shot before 2001, have it done again!! Daisy was done, they vacinate for 5 strains, the 6th was wiped out decades ago, but it's back, she was one of 3 dogs infected in eastern Ontario, she was studied and documented by Cornell university, we fought for a year to keep her alive....please don't skimp on that shot...it's now made in canada by bayer, for the canadian strains, Daisy and I as her mommy went through hell, she died in my arms.......please please have it done.....if nothing else....DO THAT ONE!!!

wdawson
January 7th, 2006, 03:58 PM
when we had our dog done they wanted 60.00 if done on its own and 35.00 if done on the second round of the initial puppy vaccine treatments , but it was me who had to ask for it and it was explained that this will not be foolproof , but my thoughts where if i have invested this much money for the exams,vaccines,neutering,heartworm pills and flea control\deworming meds then what is another 35.00 when you want to give your pup the best start to a healthy life ?

Melinda
January 7th, 2006, 04:01 PM
exactly wdawson.

SnowDancer
January 7th, 2006, 04:03 PM
We had lepto done in May with rest of vaccines - but the Kennel Cough shot was done in Jan. 2005. I fully agree re the lepto - horrible disease. A woman who works in one of Toronto's pet stores has a dog that survived the disease while so many others did not - but suffered extensive kidney damage - and has to follow a very restrictive diet - and isn't happy about it. Life expectancy will be cut short as well. I worry with all of the raccoons, skunks, possums etc. running around Toronto.

Prin
January 7th, 2006, 04:04 PM
my best friend, Daisy, 4 yr old lab/dane/rotti died May 13, 2005 of lepto, please please have that shot given, in fact, in canada, if your dog received the shot before 2001, have it done again!! Daisy was done, they vacinate for 5 strains, the 6th was wiped out decades ago, but it's back, she was one of 3 dogs infected in eastern Ontario, she was studied and documented by Cornell university, we fought for a year to keep her alive....please don't skimp on that shot...it's now made in canada by bayer, for the canadian strains, Daisy and I as her mommy went through hell, she died in my arms.......please please have it done.....if nothing else....DO THAT ONE!!!
I'm sorry for your loss. :(

I always get the lepto. Since it was found in montreal a few years back, I haven't hesitated a minute. You can't control where the raccoons pee, so you can't prevent your dog from getting it without the vaccine.

wdawson
January 7th, 2006, 04:16 PM
i'v never heard of lepto.........what is it ? and is it around the southern ontario area this time of year or is it a warm weather type of illness? curious cause beathoven has a checkup at the vet on friday and if i think he needs it then he gets it.

Prin
January 7th, 2006, 04:33 PM
It's in raccoon and other rodent urine...

Here's a link that Mona posted a while back.. http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dbmd/diseaseinfo/leptospirosis_g_pet.htm#whatis

wdawson
January 7th, 2006, 04:58 PM
thanks prin

we had problems in the summer with racoons out in the middle of the day and had too keep the dogs away........called animal control and the just said so they are wildlife , call a private company to remove them , that the animal control will only respond if it attacks my kids or pets.........a little late then cause i would have choaked then by the time they got here:D ,

twodogsandacat
January 7th, 2006, 08:46 PM
Kennel cough tore through our dog park and if I can recall it was actually in late winter or spring not summer and it affectted nearly every dog there. This is when we found out that the vaccination is only good for six months not a year.

The other day my partner at work asked about vaccinations for her dogs when we went in to get a price for the cats. For around $86 the dogs could get a ton of shots. This also included parvo, kennel cough and another I hadn't heard of and can't recall right now ( I was playing with a puppy and wasn't really paying attention after we got a price for the cats). Can anybody help me here?

On the way back to work we both agreed that was pretty decent as I pay a little more - but I get blood work done also.

Still I would say a vet that insists on all to the point of not giving any is irresponsible. In an age where it is true that many don't vaccinate enough you think he would at least give the basics....and only recommend not force the others.

Melinda
January 8th, 2006, 07:49 PM
it can also be from deer urine, wolf or coyote, even fox,.

Thank you Prin, and Daisy did have her lepto shot, as I said though, it was 4 yrs ago when the vacine was made in usa and didn't cover all 6 of the strains, at the time Canada only had 5 strains, Daisy was one of three that had the 6th strain, the new vaccines carry all 6 strains, so at least Daisy didn't die in vain, it made the medical world of animals sit up and take notice. I recieved a nice paper stating thanks for allowing them to follow her case and giving them (cornell university) permission to recieve samples of her blood and results of all her testings, they were also nice enough to send me meds, free of charge for her.

Beautygirl
January 12th, 2006, 01:34 PM
What is Bordatella, lepto & Kennel Cough? What are the symptoms?

Prin
January 12th, 2006, 02:12 PM
I posted a link for Lepto. Bordetella IS Kennel Cough and here's a link for it: http://www.marvistavet.com/html/kennel_cough.html