Pets.ca - Pet forum for dogs cats and humans 

-->

Pit play area

StaceyB
December 8th, 2005, 11:28 AM
As many of you know I am going to be offering a weekly play time for pits. Does anyone know of any places that are doing this and if so how is it going and have you brought your dog there. Obviously the dogs must be socially sound to attend.
Even if you don't know of any place I would like some feed back on the idea.

Lucky Rescue
December 8th, 2005, 12:42 PM
I must have missed something in previous posts. You don't mean that a bunch of strange pit bulls should be let off leash together, do you?

StaceyB
December 8th, 2005, 12:49 PM
It won't be a free for all.

jessi76
December 8th, 2005, 01:10 PM
Obviously the dogs must be socially sound to attend.
Even if you don't know of any place I would like some feed back on the idea.

who will determine if they are "socially sound"? Will they need to be evaluated beforehand? is it "pit" only? or are other breeds of dogs welcome to join in? who will be supervising? how many supervisors will be on hand IN the play area? How many dogs are allowed to play at once? any age range of dogs (1 yr and older)? is proof of up-to-date vaccines required?

these are just some questions I would ask if soemthing like this was available in my area. I would ask these questions of any play group - not just pits.

Lucky Rescue
December 8th, 2005, 02:06 PM
I would ask these questions of any play group - not just pits.


Agree, but pit bulls were bred to fight other dogs, not play, although some pit bulls may have one or two particular doggy friends. Most adult pit bulls have some level of dog aggression, from mild to severe.

"Socially sound" does not mean non-aggressive when discussing this breed.

Make sure everyone has a breaking stick, and is knowledgeable on how to use it or knows how to choke a dog off a hold.

StaceyB
December 8th, 2005, 02:38 PM
We have many, many pits here in Ottawa that enjoyed playing at the dog parks until this ban came in. The Pit play would be for those dogs that now have to live under this ban. If it does begin I will be taking the same care that I do with everything else that I do.
As for supervision. There will probably be no more than 5 playing at a time. Each dog must be supervised by their owner plus myself and another supervising. So that will be 7 people watching 5 dogs. There will be a waiting area and a separate play area. I don't allow toys to be available when letting new adult dogs play together in case someone resource guards. I will examine their temperment before they are able to play and precautions will be taken to ensure the dogs and people envolved are safe. They will have to bring proof of vaccination.

Lissa
December 8th, 2005, 03:00 PM
Make sure everyone has a breaking stick, and is knowledgeable on how to use it or knows how to choke a dog off a hold.

Holy smokes - a breaking stick sounds bad! I have no idea what it is!

Lissa
December 8th, 2005, 03:03 PM
:eek: I guess this is it...at first I thought it was something you are suppose to knock them with :eek: !

http://www.pbrc.net/breaksticks.html

Lucky Rescue
December 8th, 2005, 05:14 PM
Yes, those are break sticks. They can be used if only two dogs are involved and if there are two people to pull the dogs apart when the stick is being used.

With purebred pit bulls, you usually needn't worry about being bitten breaking a fight if the dogs are of proper temperament.

We have many, many pits here in Ottawa that enjoyed playing at the dog parks until this ban came in.

The people taking adult pit bulls to dog parks are part the reason for BSL. Anything can start a fight in the blink of an eye, it's very serious, and onlookers are horrified and call for breed bans. A totally "cold" pit bull, with NO dog aggression, is very rare indeed.

Most adult pit bulls do not enjoy the company of strange dogs in the least and much prefer the company of people.

Expecting a group (no matter how small) of strange pit bulls to play and get along would be like putting some border collies in a ring with sheep and expecting the dogs to ignore them.

I suggest you read the following before undertaking something that could end very badly.
http://www.pbrc.net/dogpark.html

BMDLuver
December 8th, 2005, 09:23 PM
I don't want to rain on this idea but as you are considered a public place I believe that by law the pit must be muzzled at all times in public? Your insurance otherwise would be astronomical.

gdamadg
December 8th, 2005, 10:18 PM
If she leases the space, then it is no longer public. The lease gives owness on the name on it. She is now the "property owner", within the guidelines set out in the lease. Unless she flat out owns it, then she can do what ever she wants.

Prin
December 8th, 2005, 10:45 PM
Yes but if it's hers, then the insurance would skyrocket if they found out about these pitty parties...

Lissa
December 9th, 2005, 01:43 PM
When I first heard about this, I though it was a nice idea for pitties...but I didn't really think about what they've been bred to do. It is starting to sound like a unnecessary risk - even though it's a well-intentioned idea.

Perhaps the OP has certain pitties in mind - one's that already play well together!?!?

Dukieboy
December 9th, 2005, 02:22 PM
Goodpooch.com provides an alternate view to some of those stated previously in this thread.

FYI

http://www.goodpooch.com/MediaBriefs/aggression.htm

http://www.goodpooch.com/MediaBriefs/aggression.htm

Specifically,

http://www.goodpooch.com/MediaBriefs/GPpitbulls.htm#towardsdogs

gdamadg
December 9th, 2005, 02:27 PM
Ok, I didn't really want to get into this arguement but here it goes.

Before using modern day ideas towards a breed, you should do your research. The provinces description of a "pit bull" includes many breeds, but only one has the word pit in it. The one thing they have in common is that they are "bull" breeds, and not bred to fight other dogs. I have a "pit bull" and he does not show any aggression towards other dogs, unless provoked. However my neighbors Giant Snauzer is the total opposite and wants to attack anything that moves.

http://www.nyx.net/~mbur/apbtfaqover.html

Although the precise origin of the APBT is not known, we can reliably trace its roots back at least one hundred and fifty years or so [1] to England. During the late 18th and early 19th centuries the sport of bull-baiting was very much alive and dogs were bred to excel in this endeavor. The same type of dog was also used by hunters to catch game and by butchers and farmers to bring down unruly cattle. These dogs were called "bulldogs." Historically, the word "Bulldog" did not mean a specific breed of dog per se, but rather it was applied to descendants of the ancient Mastiff- type dogs that excelled in the task of bull-baiting.

When bull-baiting was outlawed in England in 1835 the sport of matching two dogs against one another in combat rose in popularity to fill the void. One point of contention about the history of the APBT is whether these pit fighting dogs were essentially a new breed of dog specially created for this popular pastime. Some authors, notably Richard Stratton, have theorized that the APBT is essentially the same breed as the Renaissiance bull-baiting dogs, largely unmixed with any other kind of dog, specifically terriers. These authors consider the present name, American Pit Bull Terrier, a double misnomer, since, in their view, the breed is not of American origin and is not a terrier. They explain the popular attribution of the breed's origin to a cross between bull-baiters and terriers as a retrospective confusion with the breeding history of the English Bull Terrier, which is a totally distinct breed that was never successful at pit fighting but whose origin is well-documented.

gdamadg
December 9th, 2005, 02:29 PM
Here are a couple more resources.

http://www.realpitbull.com/history.html


http://www.bulldogbreeds.com/

babyrocky1
December 9th, 2005, 07:30 PM
I know im not nearly as experienced as the rest of yyou, but I find this topic confusing....My boy does really suffer when not in the company of other dogs. The times when I found him to be the most intolerant of other dogs were the times when I was intentionally keepng him away, (through various periods because of my level of stress because of the bill) when I began to feel a little more confident in letting him play, he responded well and now cries when I don't let him meet new dogs. Not all dogs, he is generally not comfortable with large breed males until he has been walked with them. Now that were doing our "pit bull" co op I ma especially interested in how to socialize our pups properly. So far with three there has not been much of a problem. They get used to how one another plays and ofcourse the pittie parents are very responsible and attentive. I think its great that Stacey B is providing people with an option for positive socialization. I asked some of the Londoners for thier strategies when socializing there larger groups and I think they said that only two at a time were actually off leash. So far we have had our billies, at the co-op, meet one at a time, and then add to the group...so I guess thats the plan. Ofcourse they go for walks on leash and muzzle, but there is some time in my apt when they are off everything, FREE! And we are very careful to not let them get too excited, not easy with Rocky LOL...and Kaylas mom always has her water spray bottle to cool them all down LOL Rocky met an English Bull terrier today, male, and was thrilled about it, even with Rockys muzzle on wanted to play but he still has a sore paw.... He does prefer people but dog play is an important part of his life...Id be interested to hear what other bullie owners think... Dog play.Important or not?

babyrocky1
December 9th, 2005, 07:42 PM
Yes but if it's hers, then the insurance would skyrocket if they found out about these pitty parties... I know a trainer in Toronto, who deals with alot of pit bulls, she is insured, and her insurance goes were she goes, in other words, if she were to rent or lease properly enclosed space, she would be insured. I dont have any idea what she pays, but, it can be done. Many doggy daycares etc. have opted out of doing it, but it is not impossible.

Joey.E.CockersMommy
December 9th, 2005, 07:45 PM
Babyrock, I think dog play is important maybe you could start a seperate thread for it.

Stacey B,

As I am not really knowledgable about pitbulls I cant really give my two cents like everyone else. It sounds though that you are taking every precaution and will make the right decision in the end. I think sometimes dog aggression depends on the owner and the way the dog was raised not just the breed.

babyrocky1
December 9th, 2005, 08:41 PM
Yes Joey cockers mom, I didn't meen to hijack:) Just as an aside though, I was thinking about the vigil in Toronto, There must have been sixty pitties there, playing and just hanging out. Most of them had never met one another. There were no dog fights. I didn't bring Rocky because I did not know how he would react to seeing such a crowd of dogs. One of my goals for getting through this horrible ban is to get him accustomed to situations like that so he is ready for the Really Big Pittie Party, when we win the court case:party:

gdamadg
December 9th, 2005, 08:50 PM
I think sometimes dog aggression depends on the owner and the way the dog was raised not just the breed.

That is it exactly. You can have a specific breed for a specific task that comes from excellent bloodlines and yes some breed specific tasks will be "easier" for this dog to learn, but if it is not trained properly it will not learn it. "Pitties" are bred to have the "tools" for fighting, stamina, strength, and determination. If they are not taught to be aggressive towards another dog or even a human, in general they will not be. Now with that being said, in every animal there are exceptions and ***holes, and dogs are really good at sensing that. They are also not prone to be "polite" like we are, and ignore this person or dog. They will tell them that they don't like them, usually comes out in some form of aggression.

As long as we all socialize and train our dogs properly, there should be no problems.

babyrocky1
December 9th, 2005, 09:02 PM
That is it exactly. You can have a specific breed for a specific task that comes from excellent bloodlines and yes some breed specific tasks will be "easier" for this dog to learn, but if it is not trained properly it will not learn it. "Pitties" are bred to have the "tools" for fighting, stamina, strength, and determination. If they are not taught to be aggressive towards another dog or even a human, in general they will not be. Now with that being said, in every animal there are exceptions and ***holes, and dogs are really good at sensing that. They are also not prone to be "polite" like we are, and ignore this person or dog. They will tell them that they don't like them, usually comes out in some form of aggression.

As long as we all socialize and train our dogs properly, there should be no problems. this has been my experience. However, since they do have the "tools" we have to be more careful than owners of some other breeds. I have heard it said that all though P bulls are not more aggressive than other breeds, if they do fight, well its just not good! I also remember reading, I think it was in "pit bulls for dummies" that a well bred p bull will not be dog aggressive because he will have the confidence to know he can take care of him self. Dog aggression is usually over a percieved threat. I guess thats why my guy generally only worries about large breed males. (ones he doesn't know)