December 5th, 2005, 09:55 AM
Well..it's been almost a year since we got Odin and we got a reminder from the vet about annual vaccinations.
The rescue we got Odin from STRONGLY suggested we don't vaccinate him again because of his immune problems and the high risk of vaccinosis with him.
I was reading up on it, and vets can do something called a Titer test to see what he still has an immunity against.
Also, some homeopathic vets offer broken down live vaccines which aparently are safer, less toxic, and don't cause vaccinosis. Basically, you get the titer test to see if your dog needs to be vaccinated against anything, then you get ONLY that vaccination.
I guess I'm worried because we like to socialize Odin, go to the park and meetups and such, but if he's not vaccinated, we can't do that right? I know with our meetup group, it's held at a doggy day care in the winter, and they require current vaccinations to go...so that means we won't be able to go.
Odin loves playing with other dogs and also because we live in an apartment building, he will come in contact will all kinds of dogs. I just don't know which is better..either we don't vaccinate and worry about him getting sick, or we do and risk compromising his fragile system as it is!
December 5th, 2005, 10:08 AM
I know several people who are active in showing in several venues that titer their dogs yearly and vaccinate according to titer results. The dogs are very healthy.
The laws in the U.S. only require rabies vaccines. The rest are recommended but not mandated. Since your dog has health issues, maybe the day care would except your vets titer results as proof of immunity. I would ask before immunizing a dog that might have a life threatening reaction.
December 5th, 2005, 10:26 AM
Sounds like an idea. I don't even know if our vet does titer tests, or how much they cost.
I don't think that bortadella would show up in a titer though, since it's kinda like the flu vaccine and wares off right? That's the big one for the doggy day care/meetup.
December 5th, 2005, 10:30 AM
There is a website called - www.eskie.net. If you just enter site - don't need to register - and do a search on this subject you will find a lot of opinions. Particularly from a woman who lives in Montreal who has the titering done.
December 5th, 2005, 08:17 PM
If the titer test shows that he is still immune, he IS vaccinated. So I wouldn't worry about being with other dogs, but for crossing the border, you might just need a certificate from your vet declaring that your doggy is fully vaccinated, with no mention of the date the vaccines were actually given (but dated on the day of the titer).. Does that make sense? If more and more people are doing titers instead, the vets have to learn to accomodate for that change, you know?
December 5th, 2005, 09:07 PM
but for crossing the border, you might just need a certificate from your vet declaring that your doggy is fully vaccinated
For crossing the border, all they have ever asked me for is a current Rabies certificate - and Rabies is only required every 3 years. We often have to cross with rescue dogs, there's a shortcut through the States to our main foster home.
December 5th, 2005, 09:58 PM
I don't vaccinate
December 6th, 2005, 08:53 AM
Me either, but for the rescues, we have to.
December 6th, 2005, 01:28 PM
what do you guys who don't vaccinate do about doggy play and taking your dogs to public places?? I guess that's my biggest concern. I know that all boarding kennels, dog parks, doggy daycares, all have noticed saying your dog has to be vaccinated.
We don't really know anyone near us with dogs, so all our socialization is done at the park and with our bulldog meetup. Unfortunately, where we go for the meetup, it's a doggy daycare space we rent, and we have to have vaccinations to enter. Which means that whenever the meetup is there, we can't go (in the winter when it's cold and summer when it's hot).
I just think that Odin will get all sad if he doesn't get out to play much.
December 6th, 2005, 01:33 PM
Ok, I'll throw myself in the pit-
By not vaccinating your doggies, aren't you depending on other people to vaccinate their doggies?
I think the reason disease rates are low here is because the majority of dogs are vaccinated against them, which hinders the spread, and if more and more people choose not to vaccinate, the rates will eventually start to go up. On the other hand, choosing not to revaccinate is different than never vaccinating at all. Dogs who were vaccinated previously will still have some sort of defense, but completely naive dogs aren't likely to. Or are you saying "not vaccinate" to mean "only vaccinate when the titers say to"?
Sorry if this is a hijack Raingirl... :o
December 6th, 2005, 01:54 PM
hijack away. I don't mind.
I was thinking that too. because we don't have many friends with dogs (none actually), we would be risking Odin's health each time we go out, which I am worried about. But it's not like we can just leave him in all the time and alone without doggy friends.
But obviously we don't want to risk his health. What if we get a titer test and it says he isn't immune to parvo? What if we get the vaccine and it kills him? How do you make that decision?
I think (like humans) that you need *some* vaccinations, but not overvaccination...
December 6th, 2005, 10:28 PM
Vegas got puppy shots, and that's all he's going to get. In a few years I'll titer test and see where he's at. I meant I will never re vaccinate, he's had enough.
December 6th, 2005, 10:39 PM
Ok. That's alright if the titers say he's ok. But to never vaccinate a puppy ever... That to me is more risky than the vaccines.
December 6th, 2005, 10:53 PM
I'd like to add though, that it's great we can all share our opinions here about what we believe and what we do with our own dogs, but it is really important to educate yourself about these things. There is SO much info available these days, you barely even have to look. http://www.portovilladogs.com/vaccines.cfm
December 6th, 2005, 10:55 PM
Sorry, I should have been more specific. Of course a puppy would need a complete first set of shots. After that titering can tell you what the dog is immune to still and if revaccinating is indicated.
December 6th, 2005, 11:34 PM
I trust my vet to keep up with the science, and so far, he gives rabies every 3 years and distemper every 2. I'm sure if my doggies couldn't handle vaccines, like Odin, then I would have to consider alternatives.
But reading that link BoxerRescue, it says we don't vaccinate our kids as much as we vaccinate our pets, but I don't think it compares because kids get completely different vaccines and they have been tested for decades, and they also have different immune responses. Our animals are not so lucky as to be the priority of scientific research, but even if they were, I wouldn't expect the vaccination schedule for kids and doggies to end up the same. JMO... Not that it affects anything, really.:)
December 7th, 2005, 03:24 PM
Stephen R Blake, DVM, San Diego, USA, said: "The idea of annual vaccines is really questionable. There is no scientific basis from what I've been able to read. There was a good article in Current Veterinary Therapy a couple of years ago. They did a literature search and the two authors were not 'alternative' veterinarians, and they could find no scientific basis for annual vaccines. So it's just being done; there is no real basis for the practice. There are a lot of chronic conditions that develop some time after vaccinating. Some of these conditions that I see are chronic ear infections, digestive problems, seizures, skin problems, and behavioural problems".
Nancy Scanlon, DVM, Chino Hills, USA, said: "For those who don't believe in the concept of long-term vaccinosis, there is plenty of evidence of short term problems. Every time a dog is vaccinated for Parvo, the number of white blood cells in the circulation decreases for a while. This means their immune system won't work as well during that time. Every veterinarian who has been in practice long enough has seen reactions to vaccines, ranging from lethargy, mild fever, sore neck to vomiting and sleeping for 24 hours, to total collapse and shock. In cats we now recognise that vaccinating with too many vaccines in the same place all the time can cause fibrosarcoma, a nasty cancer. This is officially recognised by the allopathic veterinary community, and if this isn't a form of vaccinosis, I don't know what is".