Neighbour's dogs had HUGE fight!

Yesterday, a young girl that is the friend of my neighbours' daughter, came to my house panicked and nearly hammered my door down with her fists! I was napping and jumped up and answered the door, and she told me that the 2 dogs across the street, (live in the same household), had been trying to kill eachother for 10 minutes....

I ran over there and could see from the street that a young lad was in the middle of the frey with a broom and I could hear a lot of shrieking and yelling from inside the house. I entered to see the young fella trying to break the dogs apart with a broom, the daughter was crying and had suffered a severe bite to the hand and the others present were yelling but frozen in place.

I yelled to get a bucket of water....no one moved. I told the lad to step out of it, as it was futile poking around with a broom. I grabbed 2 frying pans and banged them together as hard as I could for several seconds.....no effect whatsoever.

I took the pans and shoved them between the dogs and literally pryed them apart and yelled to the boy to try to carefully remove the younger dog and get a board between them, (construction stuff lying around from renos), and get her into the other room and close the door. He managed to do so. I had the other one's attention and she was laying on the floor, not interested in resuming the battle. It took her a while to snap out of fight mode, but she did.

The older dog (8 yrs. and gentle as a butterfly),is a female spayed/vacc/chipped pitbull/sharpei. The younger one, (1 yr. + not spayed OR vacc....I've been harping on my neighbour about this for the entire time that she has had the dog!), is anyone's guess of breed. I'd say pit/boxer or possibly a bit of mastiff in there. Both dogs are solid and weigh in at 50lb and 40lb respectively.

I have no idea how on earth I managed to separate them with 2 frying pans! Must have had a burst of super-human strength there

The dogs were exhausted and bleeding alot. There was blood on the floor, walls, daughter, my pants...everywhere:eek:

This event opened the door for a flood of issues. We live in London Ont for starters, and these are both pit bull/pit bull type dogs. One is fully complying with the laws, one is not at all. One bit a girl. One is a very dominant young female who has decided that the death of the other dog is what has to happen.

The younger has attacked the older dog on several occasions in the last while, always unprevoked, but with purpose: take over.

I had no idea what was about to unfold and am still waiting for the other shoe to drop. The first thing was to get the daughter to the hospital. Her dad rushed home from work and took her. I said that because it is a dog bite, not to mention pit bull bite, the doctor may have to report this to ACC. BUT the laws are a bit different when it is a bite by your own pet in your own home.

Then I worried that if the dog that bit her was the unvaccinated one, that the daughter may have to undergo rabies needles in her abdomen. Then I thought about the dogs being removed from the home. Then I thought about all of the charges the owners may face. Then I thought of the dogs having to be euthanized. On and on and on, the issues came.

As it stands, the girl suffered 5 puncture wounds to her hand and is on pretty strong antibiotics. She asked the Dr. if this would be reported and he said "NO...it occured in YOUR home with YOUR dogs." The nurse, however, kept harping on the fact that it was a pit bull bite and repeatedly questioned both the father and the daughter about this. It was so relentless, that another patient at the hospital finally stood up and said, "ENOUGH WITH THE PIT BULL QUESTIONS!! She isn't going to change her story, so stop badgering her!"

Turns out she is a pitty owner too!!:rolleyes:

Now the owners are wondering what to do and have pretty much decided that the younger female has to be euthanized as it would be the most responsible thing to do. They do not want to let another person or animal be hurt by this dog.

I fully believe that the older dog that actually bit the daughter, did so because the girl tried to grab her collar from behind to pull her out of the frey and the dog was startled and snapped. She would not release the girls' hand for about a minute. Even the daughter feels that this was a fear bite, not an intended "attack", but defensive action out of a sudden startling.

I don't know if the younger dog could be rehomed or if euthanasia is the only answer. Who do I call? Can the HS get involved? Will charges stem from this? It is quite a situation that we have here. Any advice, thoughts, facts are most welcome and requested here. Folks.....what now??:confused:

I don't know the dog but from what you have said the dog has probably had no training and who knows how much socializing. I would say get the dog fixed right away and give it to someone who is experienced with dogs who have issues. This is a young dog and could probably be helped with someone else.

LP,I have no advice to give one way or the other,just want to commend you on your heroic action,maybe foolish but you probably saved one dogs life and of course the children involved.
It could have been so much worse...:sad:

What a mess... thank heavens you were able to break it up before everyone was seriously injured. Quite honestly, if it were me, I would not get involved in the decision making but only offer advice if they ask for it. Rehoming a dog with know aggression is passing the problem on to someone else who also could become injured. I think, sad as it sounds, that this dog would be best euthanized. There are so many wonderful dogs out there that are pts daily, why spend so much time and energy on one that may not be able to be rehabbed? This may not be a popular view but when you see such sweet dogs dying daily... you begin to understand more that you could help 10 dogs in the time that it would take to work with this one.

I have been in this situation - and it is not pretty. One of the reasons - outside of my current age of 55 and having a 20 month puppy - for not getting another dog. The fear of living through this again - and you never know when it will happen - although I am not surprised that this has happened with the younger pup now reaching the age when my little bully decided he was an alpha-want-to-be. He suddenly attacked our true, very benevolent alpha at the back of the neck - impossible to shake off those strong Terrier teeth. Screaming, crying, blood - I was throwing water, banging pans etc. Once I got them apart, the alpha tried to "reason" with the bully by way of eye and body language and a bit of grumbling. Well, 2 days later the little son of a "b" did it again. This time husband grabbed the innocent dog from behind to try to get him away - and of course he thought he was being attacked by another dog and bit my husband who then started screaming at my little darling to the point where I was terrified for my dog. Meanwhile the little bully was sitting there looking pleased. I went and got my darling and calmed him down. Next time my husband tried to pick him up he ran from him right into my arms- husband felt awful - but he did over-react and while my pup eventually forgave my husband, their relationship was never the same. I have told him repeatedly to always let dog know it is you before you grab from behind and this goes for our current Eskimo as well. dogs. A friend of mine recently went through this as well. Sometimes it is a training issue, but other times there is an actual problem with the way the dog's mind works. When the dog starts biting other dogs, adults and then kids, you have to make the best decision for your dog. I always control the futures of my dogs - and for sure, behaviour such as this would in many cases find a dog tossed out onto the street or dumped at the Humane Society. I agree you should give advice but try to stay out of it, unless of course your dog is attacked on street by this dog - one of the worst scenarios is a dog who is all smiles and please pet me and also wants to play with your dog and then after you pass on the street, rears back and bites. Had that happen with a Shepherd/Collie cross. Hope everything works out.

I don't understand where the parents were when this fighting was happening... Were they home?

The younger has attacked the older dog on several occasions in the last while, always unprevoked, but with purpose: take over

Having two adult females together - and one intact on top of it all - is provocation enough. Just a look can start a fight.

These dogs have fought before, yet the owners continue to allow them to be together. They need to start being responsible for their dogs. The younger one needs to be spayed and the dogs need to be separated.

Did the daughter sustain the bite while trying to break up the fight only? Is this dog human aggressive in general? Ever bitten anyone, or tried to?

Well, you want opinions so here is mine.

If the younger dog hasn't been vetted, has been shown to be aggressive, ets. then this dog needs to be put down. No responsible rescue will except an aggressive dog and rehoming would be irresponsible as well.

Since you have been dragged out of your warm, cozy home and dragged into the middle of this mess, I think I would sit down with the dad and explain to him that, while you are all about minding your own business, if he doesn't not have this dog put down you will be forced to inform the authorities. The next dog to be attacked may be someone else's family pet and the next child that is bitten may not be a family member.

Sorry so long to get back to you. Away for part of the day.

I am done reasoning with these people. They don't listen and never have. The parents were both at work when this occurred. The dogs have never bitten a human before, and it is the young unspayed pup that is always the instigator. She has already taken on another young GS (spayed etc.) in the neighbourhood about 6 months ago, and I was there to break that one up as well. Not pretty then, either.

I have been urging these people to get the dog spayed/vacc and trained for over a year. I have taken them numerous training books, but the husband says that it's not needed...where he came from dogs learned from force...yadayadayada.....Here's where the problem starts.

Husband thinks he can train dog with force: pin to floor, hold up over his head, submission holds, yelling etc. The wife wants to do things differently, but there is always yelling and a smack on the bum involved. I have tried to explain alternative training methods, and actually urged taking the dog to classes, but that falls on deaf ears. The couple always argue about training methods and there is no hope in hell that this dog will ever be trained properly. I think it is a lost cause and someone will eventually be hurt badly or killed.

They do separate the dogs for the most part since the violence began to escalate, but it is turning into a rumble whenever the 2 dogs are in the same vicinity. Husband has suggested letting them wear muzzles all the time.....

They now want to keep the dog and not put it down, which I honestly think is the only sane answer. The only reason I suggested trying to call HS to see if there is a remote possibility to rehome the dog or get it properly assessed and a professional decision made on this dog's life, (disclosing the entire truth and history of the situation), is to get it out of that house and into the hands of someone who has experience with such issues. It was the only alternative I could think of instead of euthanasia as this is now out of the question for the wife. I did not intend at all to pass the problem on to another family, but to the "authorities", for an evaluation. I guess that with this dogs' genetics/personality, the truth is that the dog is not at all a good candidate for rehabilitation.

I don't want to see any dog die, but I sure don't want to see it get a chance to injure or kill either! I went thru this myself with a rescued dog that was wildly attacking everything and everybody and I had him put down. No alternative for the sake of everyone. Yes it was hard, but it was the right thing to do.

I am not an animal behaviourist and have also suggested they seek out the advice of one, but heck, they aren't willing to put out any $$, so that's out too:(

I have done everything but call these people idiots. I love them as people but just can't wrap my head around how poorly they deal with this animal situation. She thinks she can fix it. He does too. The daughter wants it gone.

I can no longer discuss this with them as they argue with me at my every utterance. They just don't get, don't want to and are being extremely selfish.

unfortunately, it's only a matter of time before this dog does this again and we all know it, all of us with the exception of the owners.

Thank you

That's why I don't get involved with a lot of people and their animals- sometimes it's better just to not ask because when you do and you can't do anything about anything, it's the worst feeling.

I think as long as these dogs are not a threat to you, you should just walk away. You can't change them and you are only going to frustrate yourself to death. But if something does happen, I wouldn't hesitate to file a police report about it just to it can be documented.

:pawprint: Sounds like the daughter knows damned well which dog bit her! And it wasn't the younger one. I would call the HS anonymously, describe the situation and ask what they would advise that you do. I don't think those dogs were good together. Maybe as an "only doggie" the younger one might be great. To have her killed is ONE option, but not necessarily the ONLY option here.
Best of luck resolving this. (keep pestering your neighbors to spay and vaccinate!!!!!):pawprint:

As you are in London Ontario and the young dog has pit in it, do they not have to comply with the law and have the dog altered? That may be the only bargaining chip to get it done.

As you are in London Ontario and the young dog has pit in it, do they not have to comply with the law and have the dog altered? That may be the only bargaining chip to get it done.


I agree, maybe the only way they will underdstand that they have to spend time and money on their dog is by letting an authoirty tell them.
It's kind of like trying to tell a parent that their not doing the right thing by their children, of course their going to get offended, at least until they are better educated... So if they're forced to take the dog to obedience and alter their dog, they might see the light, so to speak.

I too was thinking of BSL in London,I could be mistaken,but are the BSL-laws not even stricter in London than Toronto?
I know they do not require a muzzle in their home,but I thought altering and vaccinations was a must,if the dog is of any pittie-mix:confused: and if the SPCA found about about this fight,would the dogs not be doomed:sad:
Please forgive my ignorance if I am wrong:confused:

You're pretty much right on. Laws are somewhat stricter here, above and beyond the provincal BSL. But these folks don't seem to think that it applies to them. Neither of the dogs are liscenced. The wife thinks that "there is no such thing as a pit bull in Ontario, as it's not a recognized breed", therefore she is above the law.

Won't she be surprised some day soon.

She "hides" her dogs by never taking them off property, and figures that if no one sees them or complains, then it's no ones business. Oh boy. I am staying out of it. Let the chips fall where they may....

Sorry, I would be calling the authorities.

It sounds like this young dog is exactly the type of dog that the media loves to print about...untrained, unvaccinated and aggressive. An accident waiting to happen should it ever get off the owner's property.

I don't know what the laws are in Ontario.

But don't you feel morally obligated to report them?

We had a poodle given to us (at the time I was just starting to look for a puppy) Some relatives were moving and needed a new home for their male poodle. I ,despite knowing that the dog had not been treated properly, took him thinking that I could with love etc., give him a better life. After he stoped being afraid of us he bit me drawing blood (unprovocted out of the blue bite) After much thought we had to put him down. I am not proud of the fact, but I had very small children at the time, and no I didn't feel that I had the right to try and rehome him with the knowledge that his temperament was not good. In fact just looking at him you knew he wasn't a product of good breeding. Maybe a rescue group could have helped him but I was unaware that they even existed then, it was many years ago and I still feel guilty but I couldn't take the chance and let him bite anyone else or anyone elses pet.

Oh Lezz, I'm sorry you had to get in the middle of it all.

These people DO NOT deserve to have both dogs because in my eyes they are not being RESPONSIBLE in many ways concerning these dogs. If that younger female escapes out of the house, there is another front page news headliner that just ruins it for us Pit owners once again.:mad:

This female is about a year old right?? So for the next 10-11 years, they are going to keep her hidden from the authorities?? They should do the right thing now and have her euthanized **IF** she cannot be rehomed(which I don't think she can because of the new law). I think she has to be given to the HS or animal control first - i don't know for sure.
If she was rehomed with the right people, she can be trained properly. And obviously, she would have to be the ONLY pet living in that home.

I understand they don't want to give her up, but if they aren't going to be responsible and take all the necessary precautions when owning a DOG-AGGRESSIVE breed, then they do not have a right to keep her. It sounds like they do not put an EFFORT into keeping both dogs safe from each other or giving them the proper care, training, exercise and medical attention that every dog needs.

Owning 2 of this breed is alot of work. It's not like owning 2 labs or danes or any other dog. One slip up, could cost a life - you just don't know who's life it will be.
If you talk to these neighbours again, let them know that I am more than willing to talk to them on owning 2 Pit Bulls. They may not listen to me either, but it's worth a try.

But if I were you, if they aren't listening to your advice, I would call and report them. And I would tell them what my intentions are to give them a warning -maybe then, they'd reconsider.

Oh and I pray to God they don't let these dogs interact with each other from here on in!

To separate fighting dogs without getting bit, grab the aggressor by the back legs and lift high while simultaneously stepping backwards.

Thanks all for advice and well-wishing. Like I said, I have stepped out of it. I am NOT going to anonimously report the dog(s). I have had enough problems with bitchy neighbours on this street from day one. I love this family dearly and do not want to have them angry at me and never speak to me again. I do not want another war, as I have already endured 8 years of battle with the joker beside me.

These folks think that they can train the dog and keep the 2 separated. Good luck I say. Since the fight, I have not gone to the house, but just wave from my side of the street. I do not want to be doling out any more solid information to people who will not listen. I will be here when they ask me for advice and will tell them plainly and clearly what I think is the right answer. They will not listen anyway as they have their ideas already planted in their heads.

The authorities WILL come and the dogs will be dealt with soon enough. It will be a rude awakening, but that is what is needed to get these knuckleheads to comply with the law and to get them to remove the dog from the house and likely PTS. I am surprised the daughter that sustained the bite is allowing the dog to be in the house! That is their choice.

Yes, the dogs will try to go at it again. If this is how they want to live, always waiting for a fight to break out, always wondering who and when someone will be maimed or killed, that is up to them.

The wife is talking about getting the dog spayed. Never have the $$ to do so, but this is a good step, I guess. I have had enough of this and the stress is just depressing me. I have never met such stubborn people in my life. I can't talk to a brick wall any longer.

My only fear is that they will come to me after the authorities get involved and I will only have bad news for them. They are going to want me to help save the dog(s), and frankly, I don't think that I can help them or will be able to support the aggressive dog.....

Lezz,I've had my shares of talking to brickwalls and you can only hope some of what you told them will sink in.
You can take a step back,but I also know you will be watching every day,whether you want to or not and the frustration will build up.
The tragedy is,there will more than likely be a next time..
The owners don't have $$ for spaying?? Yet they have 2 dogs??
Were they not wounded in the fight needing vet-care?
I've only seen a dog-fight once and it was a Husky attacking an old Rottie and it was a horrible sight,they were both leashed and the Husky-owner managed to pull him off,with the help of bystanders.
Eventually your neighbors will be in trouble,unfortunately,like many are saying,it might end up being another nail in innocent Pitties coffins.