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Help, neihbours poodle gone insane!

babyrocky1
December 1st, 2005, 07:30 PM
I hope Im in the right place, this is a weird situation cause its not my dog, a few days ago I mentioned getting bitten by a poodle. He lives directly accross the hall from me and my "pit bull type dog" They have lived there for about three yrs. No problems at all with either my dog and the poodle or myself and the poodle. I have heard some storys though! Anyways a few days ago, I left rocky in my apt. as I was only going to the garbage shoot, the poodle was left outside his apt on his long leash, as I went to go back into my apt. I bent down and cuped my hand to him so he could come and say hello, he bared his teeth and chomped at my fingers, Because I saw him bare his teeth I was able to pull my fingers away fast enough that he didn't get a good chomp. His owner has since gone away and left the dog with our neighbour. She has her three yr. old grandson staying with her. Yesterday was our pbull coop meeting and this particular neighbour had our keys so when I went to her apt. to get them the poodle was guarding his toy and the three yr old wanted it. I took the toy and put it away just in case, next thing I know the poodle gets on the couch, decides he owns it ,and starts growling at anyone going near it, the couch that is, I tried to order him down, in my best alpha voice, he was not convinced, so Karen tried to lure him down iwth a cookie and he bit her hand and continued growling. okay so in a way this is not my problem, except that the dog lives exactly acrss the hall from me, Rocky is never aggressive to him but I have no idea what he would do if a dog growled and went for me as this one has twice this wk. And I dont want to see this poodle put down either. Lots of people in my co-op are really upset by this but we dont want to cause trouble, rather we would like to approach the owner with a solution. Any ideas?

babyrocky1
December 1st, 2005, 07:45 PM
One more thing, the owner of the poodle is very difficult! Maybe thats were the dog got his temperment from LOL I need to keep the peace cause I have a pit bull so....I cant afford an angry neighbour, no matter what the provocation. I think the poodle is around five or six yrs old. He sems to be in good health, she goes away alot and leaves him with anyone she can find, oh and that list is definately shrinking LOL

Beetlecat
December 1st, 2005, 07:51 PM
This dog has decided that it is boss in the house and will beat down anyone that tries to uproot it from this top spot. It is probably a dominent dog who has been greatly spoiled.

This is a fairly serious if the dog is a standard poodle, as it is large enough to do some damage if it feels its authority being questioned. The owner can start a 'nothing in life is free' program. Google it, as I am not going into it here but the basics is that the dog has to earn it keep from now on.

No matter the dog's size, I would not leave it and the child alone together ever, as it is also guarding toys and resources and might really hurt the three-year-old.

A private trainer wouldn't hurt, but this dog can hopefully be brought under control with the NILIF. Just never try to out bully it as that will just make it more agressive.

gdamadg
December 1st, 2005, 07:53 PM
He probably doesn't have an idea of who is in his pack. Being left with constantly changing people would probably do it. I know you don't want to cause trouble and keep the peace. But for your safety and the safety of others, this needs to be brought up to management or the co-op board. Let them deal with it. Possibly an anonymous note? Or even an anonymous call to the SPCA. This person obviously does not have the time for a dog.

babyrocky1
December 1st, 2005, 08:03 PM
I think its a miniature poodle, its definately not a standard or a toy so whatevers in the middle. The people caring for him took him back to the apt he lives in to keep him away from the child. They are still walking him but he has to stay in his apt alone:sad: I still feel sorry for the nasty little guy, and thought about going over there but I dont know how to deal with him, I know you are right about the alpha dominance thing, but Ive only read about cases as bad as this, Ive neer seen it before, I have to think of a way to introduce this idea to my neighbour while not creating conflict with her, and believe me, this woman is DIFFICULT! She will definately be in denial. When he bit me previously I suggested that she not leave him in the hall on a leash as he probably felt he needed to guard territory. She still didn't apoligise for him biting me. Not that I care but its that kind of an attitude. Now Im the one who witnessed the biting incident with the other neighbour but apparantly he has bitten others before. Our maintanance people wont go into her home but will gladly come into mine, whether Im there or not.

BMDLuver
December 1st, 2005, 08:06 PM
I would suggest to the neighbour who is watching the dog, that the child be kept well away from the dog. I have seen the damage a tiny dog can do to permanently scar a child. A 3 year old does not need to learn this lesson. Suggest she put the dog in a bedroom when the child is around. I would also suggest that everyone ask that the dogs movements be restricted at all times... This poor dog is obviously terribly confused and the owner is just making it worse by placing it wherever he can when gone. :sad:

babyrocky1
December 1st, 2005, 08:11 PM
He probably doesn't have an idea of who is in his pack. Being left with constantly changing people would probably do it. I know you don't want to cause trouble and keep the peace. But for your safety and the safety of others, this needs to be brought up to management or the co-op board. Let them deal with it. Possibly an anonymous note? Or even an anonymous call to the SPCA. This person obviously does not have the time for a dog. Honestly I dont want to go to the board formally cause I dont want the whole pet issue to come up which it inevitably will. If my co-op looks really closely at the pet policy the issue of ins. might come up....Anywys one of the people involved is on the board, we were just thinking that we would rather give her the resources to either solve the problem or rehome the dog. Its not up to me ofcourse, anyone can launch a complaint about that dog and this latest incident might be the deal breaker, also it really seems to have escalated recently, Ive never personally had a problem with him in all these years and now I will be muzzling Rocky as I leave my apt for his own protection, meanwhile its the poodle that needs the muzzle! (I dont muzzle Rock in the building cause he is friendly with everyone in there and needs at least that time to interact properly with people but now I have to worry about him possibly trying to protect me from an aggressive poodle. Our doors are about three feet apart and like I have said she often leaves him in the hall! Definately a bi law infraction!

gdamadg
December 1st, 2005, 08:14 PM
I am sure that this dog was a wonderful dog and probably still can be. Sprint was very Alpha when my sister got him and tried it when I got him this summer. But that is gone now. But he gets a lot of attention and I don't leave him alone longer than I have to. And I only leave him with one household if I have to go away. That's my parents, which are part of his "pack".

I know we all don't want to see anything happen to any dog. But if the owner is obviously in denial and doesn't have the time to spend to correct this problem. The dog has to be reported to authorities. Think if this was Rocky, he wouldn't get soo many chances. :( It's sad, but sometimes it has to be done.

babyrocky1
December 1st, 2005, 08:14 PM
I would suggest to the neighbour who is watching the dog, that the child be kept well away from the dog. I have seen the damage a tiny dog can do to permanently scar a child. A 3 year old does not need to learn this lesson. gone. :sad: Thats for sure BMDluver, they took the poodle back to its own apt, for that reason.

babyrocky1
December 1st, 2005, 08:18 PM
I am sure that this dog was a wonderful dog and probably still can be. Sprint was very Alpha when my sister got him and tried it when I got him this summer. But that is gone now. But he gets a lot of attention and I don't leave him alone longer than I have to. And I only leave him with one household if I have to go away. That's my parents, which are part of his "pack".

I know we all don't want to see anything happen to any dog. But if the owner is obviously in denial and doesn't have the time to spend to correct this problem. The dog has to be reported to authorities. Think if this was Rocky, he wouldn't get soo many chances. :( It's sad, but sometimes it has to be done.Maybe I could contact a Poodle rescue and see if they could help place a "problem dog" does anyone know of anybody? That way when we confront her we could give her an option. Im sure your right about him being shuffled around too much, he was given to her from some people that didn't want him in the first place and I think she just wanted him cause he is a poodle. She likes the look of him.:mad: Oh yeah Rocky would have made headlines and been ....by now, cant even type it:mad:

gdamadg
December 1st, 2005, 08:28 PM
http://www.ontariopetrescue.com/breedresqs.html

I found this website, if you scroll down it gives rescue listings by breed. Sadly there is only one contact there for poodles and it's for the US.

http://www.adoptananimal.ca/search.php?browse=all

Or maybe you can find something off that site.

babyrocky1
December 1st, 2005, 08:35 PM
Thanks Gdmadog, theres a few of us involved in this conversation at the co-op now so the info will come in handy. The office staff and one of theboard members knows about it. The other people are dog lovers so well use all of this info and see what we can come up with to save the poodle. Actually now that I think about it I think there are some pug rescues that handle other small breeds as well. I guess the big question is if they would have someone who could deal with the dogs "special needs" he would obviosly be hard to place.

gdamadg
December 1st, 2005, 08:39 PM
Your welcome. I would never want to see the dog not get a fair chance. It is not his fault, it is the owners. If any one else would have taken in Sprint, he probably wouldn't be around today. All dogs, even "special needs", need a loving home. If I come up with anything else, I will let you know. ;)

babyrocky1
December 2nd, 2005, 06:19 PM
Through the gossip tree in the building, I heard today that the owner had been thinking of putting the dog down:eek: this is really upsetting, shes not there and I here him in the apt. crying all the time. I know he is being walked and fed but thats about it. Poor guy. Is there a safe way for me to handle him? Does anyone know? AND whythe heck would she leave him with an unsuspecting neighbour if she already knew it had come to this??? People suck!

t.pettet
December 2nd, 2005, 07:47 PM
This poor little dog is just showing how unhappy he is in his present living conditions - being shuffled around and allowed to be so alpha. I have dealt with quite a number of small dominant aggressive rescues so please contact me if she is looking to re-home. Will willingly give this dog another chance at a better life.

babyrocky1
December 2nd, 2005, 08:07 PM
Thak you sooo much TPettit, I will definately present that as an option. she may not want to hear it from me but the woman who is now taking care of him could suggest this to her. I will pm you about it.

CyberKitten
December 3rd, 2005, 04:04 AM
I wish I had advice - my toy poodle had the greatest tenperment - he would hand over a toy and you could take the food out of his mouth but he was a very secure, much loved and well socilized dog who was also well trained. I was never afraid to have him and small children together tho I always supervised just to be safe - it only takes one so called playful moment!!

I thik she just let this poodle do what he wanted and so he thinks he is the boss and is dominant and is of course also needy and crying because he also needs her. He tells her what to do and she does it. He is the alpha in the pack. He does not deserve to be put down and while I know poodles can bite (tho mine never did, not even once!!), many do playfully. They can also be very possessive tho - of their people and toys and food. Mine was a little baby but he also knew his place and spent much time also with my grandparents whose home was grand central station so he was soooo used to people, dogs, cats, rabbits, my gram's feral cats - you name it. He would listen to the cats, lol (especially my Nellie when she had her babies but you know she did let him lick them so that shiowed alot of trust on her part - this was when they were just born in my bed too!! He thought he was daddy tho but that was OK, worked out well - she would scr5uff the kits and leave them with him or me, it was so cute!! (Un natural but cute!) When she had to eat or go to the litter box, the kits came to him if she could not find me. I'll never forget that!

Anyway -sorry to go off topic. Maybe you can talk to this woman about rehoming the poodle. Good luck!! And it might be best to do it as a group so she does not single you out, esp with those horrid laws in Ontario!!

chico2
December 3rd, 2005, 08:15 AM
I feel for this poor little dog,I walk my neighbors little neglected Cocker every day,because the owners are"too busy",but instead of showing aggression,she is showing apathy as if she's given up,unless she's with me outside.
Seeing you have Rocky,you know who would be to blame should any incident happen between the 2 dogs,so please be careful!
I don't understand how this person is allowed to tie her dog outside the apartment,it's warm,but not much different from tying a dog outside:sad:

babyrocky1
December 14th, 2005, 08:48 PM
Well, all hell has broken loose on the poodle front, the difficult neighbour has returned and she is in a foul mood! I saw her yesterday and inquired about the dog, as in how is B---- doing, she answered fine thankyou, but in a really sarcastic tone, I have know idea why. I continured out as I was taking Rocky for a walk at the time and on my way back in, thinking maybe she was feeling defensive after all that had happened, I explained that I was only inquiring because I had been on the internet and had some info that might help her in dealing with him. She just said that if he bit anyone again she would have him put down. I was shocked but I said if that situation were to arise I had someone who would rescue him, she said Im the rescue, im his last chance. Some chance! Anyways, after all the trouble Ive gone to to avoid a confrontation with this woman, I hear some comotion in the hall, I go out and she is screaming at my daughter and her BF, the bf, is afraid of dogs and apparantly her poodle had gone after him, it was her that was flipping out though, and she was saying taht I was a liar and B had never bitten me, she later said she had been mistaken but she actually called me a liar. I didn't loose my temper but I just reinterated that she had to keep B on a leash and she couldn't talk to people the way she had been. She made a comment that I believe was racist to my daughters bf. and was screaming on the verge of hysteria during the whole thing. Anywys, believe it or not thats the very shortest version I could come up with. Now Im scared for her dog, and my dog! She is really the most vindictive person I have ever met and would happily make a false accusation about Rocky (pit bull) and if she really were to try and have the poodle put down, is there a way to get him rescued from whatever facility she might take him too? I am still going to have someone who she might not hate so much, ask her about having a rescue take him. But just in case, does anyone know?

meb999
December 14th, 2005, 09:03 PM
Ummm, I'm afraid there isn't all that much you can do if she decides to put this poodle down. Especially if she tells the vet that he's bitten someone. The vet can try to talk her out of it, some vets may even refuse to do the euthanisia, but no vet can LEGALLY (that doesn't mean it never gets done...) tell a customer that they'll put a dog down than give it to rescue.

This lady sounds really .... ummmm...as my dad would say (he's a psychiatrist) 'just plain nuts' .. I would try to avoid her at any cost. Especially since you own a pitbull -- it doesn't require alot of proof to make accusations against a pittie nowadays (:mad: ) -- especially in Ontario.

babyrocky1
December 14th, 2005, 09:22 PM
There is no way to avoid her, she lives three and a half feet away from me, I can hear her flush her freakin toilet! Sorry for the graphic reply LOL I am worried about false accusations, shes just that kinda person. and I have tried soooo hard not to have a confrontation with her! We are thinking of taking her to the member relations committee, they are not about blame but if this is on record somewhere and something happens it might protect us, I wouldn't have done this before but now its so bad I have nothing to lose. I don't see how she could get worse, as far as the dog goes, I don't really think she will do it, but on the other hand, his aggression seems to be escalating, so eventually he will bite someone else, alot of people wont be as understanding as my other neighbour and I have been. If she takes him to Animal control, can we get him out of there?

Copper'sMom
December 14th, 2005, 10:28 PM
Ummm, I'm afraid there isn't all that much you can do if she decides to put this poodle down. Especially if she tells the vet that he's bitten someone. The vet can try to talk her out of it, some vets may even refuse to do the euthanisia, but no vet can LEGALLY (that doesn't mean it never gets done...) tell a customer that they'll put a dog down than give it to rescue.

Babyrocky - this is exactly what I was going to say!! As for getting him out of animal control, I have no idea. If your relations committee had a meeeting about this situation, and if they were to talk with this neighbour about giving the dog to a rescue, do you think she might listen then???

babyrocky1
December 14th, 2005, 10:36 PM
Babyrocky - this is exactly what I was going to say!! As for getting him out of animal control, I have no idea. If your relations committee had a meeeting about this situation, and if they were to talk with this neighbour about giving the dog to a rescue, do you think she might listen then??? No, they would only talk to her about her own behaviour! They arent mandated to suggest something like that. Im hoping maybe the other person he bit will talk to her, she wants to, but shes scared, oh yeah the woman blamed the other person he bit for the bite! I was there, the dog was defending what he decided was his couch. She was trying to give him a treat to stop him from growling and get him off the couch away from the toddler. Thats when he bit her.

gdamadg
December 15th, 2005, 08:08 AM
This has gone way out of control. Personally, I would go to the board to protect yourself and where you live. Then call Animal Control and make a complaint. At least if they remove the dog, they "should" do an assessment to see if it is suited for rehoming.

I hope that this resolves peacefully for all involved. However, your neighbor sounds like a word I know, that is not appropriate for this forum.

CyberKitten
December 15th, 2005, 12:16 PM
I would protect yourself too. Not sure about Animal Control though- that would almost surely mean the dog's death so the outcome is no better than what the his owner has in mind, sigh! What about someone "stealing" him? I think about those women in BC who take dogs who are left out in the cold and neglected by owners and they rescue them and find them great homes. Illegal of course but..... I am not suggesting this you understand..... just thinking creatively out loud. I think the poddle's problem is this woman.

babyrocky1
December 15th, 2005, 09:05 PM
Yes,The problem is totally the woman, I thought I would try and talk to her, AGAIN, try and be nice, but she has pushed even me too far, I have been a peace maker with her for years, but this time she called me names!!!! She was totally out of control,yet I still fully intended to calm down and try and talk to her again, like adults, but when I passed her in the hall, I gave her a look that said lots more things that can't be said on this site LOL Bad move on my part Im sure, but Im sick of being overly nice to a horrible person only because Im afraid she might victimize me or my dog! Now Im even afraid shell turn her rage on her own dog. I just wish she would move. Thankfully she does travel alot. Thanks for all the supportive words everyone! BTW i wish I knew how to protect myself, but its not possible to live your life and make everyone like you, and in Ontario, if you have a pit bull, thats what you need to do. The woman doesn't like me, I don't like her and that makes me vulnerable, thanks again Michael Bryant!

maddoxies
December 15th, 2005, 10:12 PM
Babyrock

I have only 2 suggestions.
1. Get all the documenation (statements from witnesses) NOW about the poodle's behaviour and any good documentation (ie the maintenance folks who are comfortable coming in to Rocky without you home) about Rocky. Do it while it is fresh in everyone's memories

2. Anne and Pete's Rescue, they are on petfinder. They have done good things with some pretty troubled dogs.

Good luck:fingerscr

babyrocky1
December 15th, 2005, 10:16 PM
Thanks for the advice, alot of people in the building have already volunteered to write something, both for Rocky and about the poodles behaviour. I haave to get my daughter to formally send something to the member relations committee, we have already spoken to the office and they suggested at least putting something in writing that would go in a file, just incase there was ever more of a problem. Being the victim here seems to require all of the work :sad:

badger
December 15th, 2005, 10:29 PM
If this charming person hasn't brought up Rocky with you or threatened to complain about him, I wouldn't bring it up yourself. You might give someone ideas. This is about HER poor dog and his antics and HER behaviour which is making your lives difficult.

babyrocky1
December 15th, 2005, 10:33 PM
Your absolutely correct Badger, Im not giving her ideas, its just that when one owns a p bull type dog in Ontario, and one has any sort of falling out with a neighbour, well i just know how vulnerable I am. None of this has been brought up to her, I dont want her to know how vulnerabale I am. Or how vulnerable I feel.

badger
December 15th, 2005, 10:46 PM
No, I understand that, but as Joe Friday on Dragnet used to say (I'm really dating myself here!), 'just the facts, m'am'. As far as this report goes, you don't have a dog.

Is there anyone in the building she is friendly with and who is reliable? You could quietly mention to her (assuming it's a she) that if this charming person wants to unload her dog, you would be happy to help find another home for it. Nothing she needs to raise immediately, just if this charming person brings it up. Or if she is hostile (the charming person) and would reject anything which involved you, do it through a third person.

There's nothing worse than trying to help an animal when the owner is so blindly ignorant.

babyrocky1
December 16th, 2005, 06:07 PM
We are searching for such a person now Badger, its a short list with this woman though. I havent seen her today, or heard the dog, she does come and go alot, but as much as I hate to see her, and hear the dog crying when I don't I wonder if she has taken him somewhere. I think that the threat of having him put down is probably more a way to make us feel guilty if we complain about him. I guess its working!