Pets.ca - Pet forum for dogs cats and humans 

-->

Simon's Bladder Problems - Part 8 (sorry this is long)

jawert1
November 30th, 2005, 09:51 PM
I'm even more baffled than I was before, after 3 weeks on this HORRENDOUS acidifying diet of Hill's Prescription c/d, Simon is having one of his worst days (well past 3 I should say). He's not just leaking, but his belly and the insides of his legs are bright pink and he's almost got a moist feel to him, like he's sweating but not. He keeps licking at himself and has been drinking far more than normal - called the vet earlier and when she asked how he was doing otherwise, I had to be honest - he's fine. He's bounding around like his normal self, trying to steal bones from Peaches, they toussled for awhile like they normally do, we had our regular "mommy on the floor" play time. Nothing else is out of sync at all. He's now resting quite comfortably but I've been taking him out every 1/2 hour to make sure his bladder is empty and sure enough, he leaves a good quantity of clear liquid on the ground, as though he'd been holding it for awhile. His x-rays have shown no stones, the urinalysis came back very basic urine and LOW specific gravity, but other tests show no Cushing's or Addison's. Top it all off, he has scabby areas on the side of his face, and I found one on his shoulder (he had Demodectic mange as a pup due to the *&^*&%$& that abused him and starved him). I brought that up to the vet too and since we're scheduled to see her again beginning of next week, she said to wait since he wasn't out of sorts otherwise. I'm so tapped out it isn't even funny, I have no idea if this AWFUL (did I mention I HATE this food) food is making his skin bad (he's been stinky since he's been on it) or if he's having a recurrence of mange cuz he's got other immune/kidney/bladder issues that have yet gone undiagnosed. Any information that anyone has about their own dogs and situations like this is greatly appreciated. I'm beyond sad and frustrated since it feels like just one more thing that he doesn't need and I can't fix.

Prin
December 1st, 2005, 12:38 AM
Aww, I'm so sorry for all the trouble you are going through. I don't know what to say. There's no other food to try out for this? Do you trust this vet wholeheartedly? I hope nothing is seriously wrong with Simon.:fingerscr

Prin
December 1st, 2005, 12:46 AM
After rereading the first thread, I think you need to see a specialist. While your vets are baffled at the results, a specialist might see something in them right away.

Here's the other thread, in case anybody else wants a look-see: http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=18022

jawert1
December 1st, 2005, 08:00 AM
Unfortunately there's no substitute for Hill's Prescription c/d, but not for lack of searching and calling about. It simply isn't out there. I'm going to ask my vet about a specialist referral and will be buying a case of odor neutralizer (my apartment smells dreadfully despite my best efforts). Otherwise, he's happy as a pig in slop right now ::shrugs::

jawert1
April 6th, 2006, 10:43 PM
Well tonight it happened again. I was sitting on the phone talking to my mom when Simon (without warning - which is unusual) stood up from his bed, took two steps and began to pee...A LOT. In these cases (which had stopped for a good while), I just grab the nearest soft absorbant item and toss it under him, trying to get him down 4 flights of stairs while this is going on is impossible. His urine was almost entirely clear and had no smell to me - so really diluted. He finished up, I ran him downstairs, he went again - same deal, very dilute. It then occurred to me that he had a mixture of wet and dry food tonight, since I was running low on their kibble. When he's on all dry, no problems at all, his urine concentrates well and the pH is fine. So my question is this, is it possible to give a dog too much liquid that this would be the outcome? He does drink a good amount of water during the day, so could this put him over the edge to losing control of his bladder?

Prin
April 7th, 2006, 12:45 AM
Do you think maybe he's got hormone incontinence? I'm sure you've seen "spay incontinence" in here a few times, but it can happen in males too. It's really rare but it happens. Males with it get Propalin.
http://propalin.ca/en/index.html

When Boo eats a lot of snow in the winter, he totally loses control and the vet thought right away that it was hormone related (I think it might be, but he's still ok enough to not need meds right now), which made me think that Simon might have hormone-related incontinence. It would just weaken the bladder sphincter muscles enough so that if there is enough pressure on them, it'll leak out, or he just won't be able to contain himself.

It could also be that he's a heavy drinker separate from all that, and it's just a bad mix.

OntarioGreys
April 8th, 2006, 05:29 AM
Had you said he was on Hill's S/D which is the dissolution diet to dissolve stones, then then you are very limited by this food can only be fed short term


But what you are dealing with is different and there are several ways to handle, one is by prescription diet, 2 by feeding a regular diet and using Berry extracts to neutralize the ph or 3 by feeding a regular food and supplementing with an acidifier

One of the things with the prescription diets is they contain added salt this is to make them drink more and pee more to prevent stone formation, one of my dogs did have stones when I adopted her so she was on the dissolution diet, and it was swamp city with the peeing but after 4 weeks her stones were dissolved, my vet had recommended the c/d like yours is on, I chose instead to get her on a high quality diet instead low in grains, since one of the university clinical studies showed that diets high in grains could result in stones so that is what I did and we monitored her urinary PH which the decision that if it became to alkaline we would try Berry Balance first, if that did not help then use Methigel as an acidifier, this would at least allow my to keep her on a high quality food, the PH reading on the food alone remained in the neutral range so we never had to supplement


Here are similiar prescription diets made by other companies

http://medi-cal.ca/consumers/Canine/urinarySO_en.asp in the US it is called IVD instead of Medi-Cal

Walthams or royal canin http://www.walthamusa.com/Learning%20Center/SO13.html


the other option you have is to feed a regular good quality food and supplement with Solidgolds BerryBalance which will help to normalize the PH no it does not become too alkaline it is available in Good quality small petstore in Canada like Ryan's or Globals, they have a store locator on their site http://solidgoldhealth.com/products/showproduct.php?id=25&code=509

you can also by urinary acidifiers http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=521&N=2001+113753

Your vet hould be able to provide you with one called Methigel®
Urinary acidifier.
Each teaspoon contains 400 mg dl-methionine. For use in dogs and cats as a supplemental source of methionine, to aid in maintaining an acidic urine.

jawert1
April 8th, 2006, 10:07 AM
OntarioGreys, he's no longer on prescription food. I found the ingredient list to be absolutely vile and repugnant and took him off since it wasn't helping anyway. Oddly enough, his urine started concentrating well on it's own and any of the 4 vets that saw him and conferred (including a specialist) couldn't figure out why. It was just the other night that caused me to reopen this thread - he pee'd right in front of me and couldn't stop or control it, but I had given him mostly wet with kibble mixed in for dinner and he's a big drinker normally. After that episode, he's been fine - urine normal colour and odour and I took a sample in yesterday to the vet and the pH is in range. Thanks for the advice tho, it's helpful for the next round should we have one :)