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Killing of cats/dogs for fur in China:DISTURBING ARTICLE AND FOOTAGE

lezzpezz
November 28th, 2005, 04:09 PM
:sorry: Warning! This post is hard to read as it is grotesquely disturbing:sorry:

I am sitting here reeling after going to BBC News website : http://news.bbc.co.uk/#
and reading the article about the misuse and killing of cats and dogs for fur!

Unbelievable barbaric and grotesque.....I am sick to my stomach.

If you want to be enlightened as to how China does business, go to the above web address and scroll down to the right hand red box that says video and audio footage. Paul McCartney and his wife are interviewed in one segment and a second shows actual footage of process used on the animals. I am so sad right now.....

lezzpezz
November 28th, 2005, 04:19 PM
Please forgive me for posting this, as the following website has the actual footage. Not for the soft hearted ones out there....

If you need the whole real picture, just go to PETA website. I had to turn it off. I am crying now and having a hard time dealing with this.....:sad:

les
November 28th, 2005, 05:58 PM
OMG .. that's all I can say. I don't suggest anyone watch this video - - I can usually deal with seeing things but this .. I HAD to turn it off part way through.

Those poor animals.

What is wrong with those people?

chico2
November 28th, 2005, 06:08 PM
I do not watch anything that will give me nightmares,however I am well aware of what goes on in that part of the world:sad:
At the danger of being labelled racist,I'll keep my mouth shut.
With all the human and animal-rights abuses in China,we still awarded them the Olympics,it's a shame,the power of the $$$:evil:

Mrs Bungle
November 29th, 2005, 11:43 AM
At the risk of being flamed, i just want to remind everyone to not blanket label chinese people because of some of the things that go on there.... as mr mcartney so eloquently did by "punishing" all of china by not playing there, and boycotting them... all of china was not a part of this, so how this is really fair is beyond me...

And one more thing that im sure will bring on some anger, is that, in many parts of the world, not just china, animals including domestic cats and dogs, are not considered the way they are here.... thats a cultural difference.. not to say that that is right, but, it is something to be taken into consideration....

chico2
November 29th, 2005, 02:50 PM
Mrs Bungle,I am not "blanket labelling"the Chinese people,dog/cat furs are sold in Europe and someone is getting rich,but certainly not the Chinese people.China is the fastest growing economy in the world and in our dealings with China,we are turning a blind eye to the horrific human rights abuses.
Whether they view animals the way I do or not,is beside the point,culture or not,I do not have to agree,cruelty is cruelty wherever it comes from.
In awarding China the Olympics,we are letting the Chinese government know,we really do not care what they do to their people,or how many political prisoners are rotting in jail as long as they put on a wonderful show.

Mrs Bungle
November 29th, 2005, 03:01 PM
I wasnt targeting you in yoru statements...

CERTAIN people are getting rich off of these sales... The people that are doing this are doing it for the money because if they dont they wont be able to eat.

I never said you had to agree with how they view animals or not, the point was, not to discriminate the CHINESE as a whole..

Roxy's_MA
November 29th, 2005, 03:45 PM
CERTAIN people are getting rich off of these sales... The people that are doing this are doing it for the money because if they dont they wont be able to eat.

I never said you had to agree with how they view animals or not, the point was, not to discriminate the CHINESE as a whole..

There are certain people getting rich of this, and that is why there should be a boycott. If they don't make any money doing this do you think they will continue?

So for me it is not discrimination against individual citizens of China, but it is discrimination against the Chinese gov't. It is not just about animal rights. It is about human rights.The gov't that does nothing about the people going to work and dying in the mines everyday. The gov't that does nothing about the cruelty and torture of innocent animals.

I understand there are cultural differences. It doesn't make it right and it doesn't mean the rest of should turn a blind eye. I believe it is the responsibility of North American and European countries to do something. We continue to support the economy of this country, and turn a blind eye to how they treat their people. I think China needs to learn that they can't use child labour, slave labour, and political prisoners if they are to compete in the international market. IMHO

I guess this is where it becomes a conflict for me and possibly our gov't. Is free trade considered a human right?

Mrs Bungle
November 29th, 2005, 03:52 PM
I can see what you mean roxy...

It makes a little more sense when you put it that way.... I wonder why they were able to stay this way for so long??

And more importantly, who the heck buys furcoats made out of dogs and cats in the first place? I never knew that was fashionable?!?!:eek:

chico2
November 29th, 2005, 04:57 PM
I actually read about those furs a while back and they are selling in Eastern Europe,Russia and all over Asia.
Here in Canada in a mall,I was looking at these small cats,very lifelike and the fur is also very cat-like.
I asked the Asian sales-woman and she said it's rabbit-fur,but are there really brown tabbie coloured rabbits??
I personally would never buy anything made in China or North Korea,but it is getting harder to get away from.

Katze
November 29th, 2005, 05:53 PM
Mrs. Bungle
I don't think anyone is being blanket labelled. There are people in china who are very grateful that some of us are voicing our outrage through boycotthttp://www.animalsasia.org/.

Prin
November 29th, 2005, 09:01 PM
That's why my furry coats are all polyester! (I can joke because I didn't even dare to watch the video...)

Lucky Rescue
November 29th, 2005, 10:56 PM
who the heck buys furcoats made out of dogs and cats in the first place?

Who buys fur coats made of lynx, fox, and wolf? I"m sure anyone would be horrified to see the incredible suffering that occurs for animals caught in leghold traps and clubbed to death.

Even coyotes' skins are made into poor quality coats, called "fun fur". Not much fun for the coyote.

We need to stop this barbaric, primitive practice right in this country of cruelly killing animals frivolously so some people can wear their skins to feel better about themselves.

Suffering is suffering - cat, dog, lynx or coyote - it's all the same and it's outrageous.

chico2
November 30th, 2005, 07:26 AM
I agree 100%,I naively believed leg-traps and any other"hunting"traps were illegal in this country,also that wolves,lynx were protected,that shows how little I know:sad:
Our own sealhunt is widely protested around the world,most of the pelts are exported,a majority to Russia,where furs are still a status-symbol.
What gets to me most about many Asian countries,is not the fact coats are being made from cat/dog fur,but the total disregard for the suffering of the animals,the cruelty is sickening..
We kill dogs/cats every day,but I am hoping as humanely as possible.
We could also discuss,factoryfarms,labs,slaughterhouses,puppy-mills right here in Canada,where the mighty $$$ always wins over any concern over animal wellfare.

Roxy's_MA
November 30th, 2005, 11:05 AM
I agree 100%,I naively believed leg-traps and any other"hunting"traps were illegal in this country

I am pretty sure they are. I know they are here. The fish and wildlife officers are very serious if you get caught using something like this. A friend of my brothers was caught poaching. He had an untagged deer. He was fined thousands, and lost his drivers license for year. It up to people like us to report the poachers.

Not sure about the rest of the country, but you can't even using fishing hooks with barbs here anymore (because on an catch and release it destroys the fish, people just rip them out:eek: and toss the fish back). I must have seen over 20 people get fined this summer for it.

Luvmypit
November 30th, 2005, 04:26 PM
I have a feeling not to watch this video so i wont.

Who can we write to protest this? What can we do as individuals?

Unfortunantly in this world, in the 20th century animals not to mention women are treated like crap.

Just have to say sometimes this world really sucks!

babyrocky1
November 30th, 2005, 08:34 PM
No way am i watching it!!! OMG sickening, well at least PETA as bad as they are about some things, will have to be all over this because of the publicity that Paul Mcartney has brought to it. People, not just the dog people, have been talking about this since it came out,,, its really upset the "regular folks" I dont know if anything can be done but they have rock stars and celebs who have a much greater chance and desire to make changes happen than do politicians.

Lucky Rescue
November 30th, 2005, 09:12 PM
I agree 100%,I naively believed leg-traps and any other"hunting"traps were illegal in this country

Hunting traps certainly are not illegal and HUGE numbers of animals are trapped each year in this country, including a large number of bears trapped in snares to make fur hats for the Queen's guardsmen - for decoration! Animals like lynx, beaver, wolves and others are not raised in captivity on fur farms, and are trapped in the wild.

Even the supposedly humane "Conibear" trap only works properly about 80% of the time. Animals can be left writhing and suffering for up to TWO weeks, which is the legal amount of time a hunter can go without checking traps.

Hunters setting leghold traps are required to check them only every 3 days.

The last I heard, Alberta has only agreed not to use traditional leghold traps on small furbearing animals. Larger animals - bobcat, lynx, fox, coyote or wolf - in Alberta are still caught in a variety of leg holding traps, if not the traditional leghold ones. Aquatic animals - beaver, muskrat - are caught in traps that drown them. Not a nice death.

Doesn't matter if the traps are padded or not, or if animals are harmed in the trap. These animals are being abused and slaughtered not for food or out of necessity, but for FASHION only!! It's really shameful.

You ladies out there wearing fur - you THINK you look good and that others are impressed by you flaunting the stripped skins of slaughtered animals on your back. Trust me - you don't look so hot at all. You look stupid and cruel. :mad:

Shaykeija
December 1st, 2005, 03:02 AM
When I had my store a customer told me he had something for me to see in his truck. So I went and looked. Stupid me. In the back was a beautiful female wolf. The stupid trapper snared her and in her struggle to live she wore all her fur off her back end. I told that prick that if he ever came on my property again I would personally use his own snare on his onions. Give him a neuter he would not forget. I got the wolf from him and buried it out in my brother in laws farm. She was sure beautiful. Something I will never forget.

chico2
December 1st, 2005, 08:11 AM
Unfortunately for the animals,as long as there are buyers,this cruelty will go on..:sad:
A few years back we made headway,it was not socially acceptable to wear fur,but for a couple of years now the big fashion-houses are bringing it back.
Big"stars"like Puff-Didddy(name?),with his own fur-fashion line,Jennifer Lopez, always draped in dead animals,are telling our kids it's ok!!
Fortunately there are just as many artists who take a firm stand against the fur-industry.Paul McCartney being one...
A long time ago I watched a documentary,where a female Wolf was caught in a trap,her male would not leave her side and subsequently they both were killed:sad:
In Sweden,they just passed a law regarding farmed minks,they are no longer to be kept in cages,they have to live their short lives in an environment as close to nature as possible,with the result many"mink-farmers"lost their business.They still end up as coats,but hopefully that to will end.
Wearing dead animals today is no more a status-symbol,but a symbol of sheer ignorance..

papillonmama
December 1st, 2005, 08:38 AM
Wait a second here....
I'm not for farms where they raise animals to kill for their pelts, but I have to admit, that when I was a little kid and my father was laid off in the winter that his trap line was what kept food in our belly. We don't need to trap now, but we most certainly did then. It might surprise you, but you can eat beaver, and we did, we also ate the rabbits that he would snare. I don't think that responsible trapping and hunting is wrong. I still know people who hunt every winter for their food supply. It's when people hunt out of season or over-trap, even over-fish when things become a problem.
It may seem difficult to believe, but there are very strict guidlines to hunting trapping and fishing, and even native people such as myself (not that I hunt or fish or trap), have to obey the rules.
I think that hunting and trapping is being misconstrued, you see these videos, if you had the guts to watch it, and you assume that that's what hunters and trappers do, I watched the video, and I can tell you that I was allowed to watch my father skin the beavers that he caught, and never did I wittness anything even close to what they were doing to those poor house pets. My father, and many other hunters, trappers, etc. have respect for the animals who gave their lives so that we could survive.
I can understand being upset about a poacher, but there are legitimate hunters out there who are not out there just for a buck (dollar or otherwise) or bragging rights. It's really easy for us to talk about how cruel it is to trap and to hunt when we're sitting in our classy homes powered by electricity and a grocery store no further than twenty minutes away, but life is not the same everywhere. There are places, even in Canada where people don't have electricity or telephones, and the only way they can get food is for it to be flown in for them, when it costs you a pretty penny just to have a bagel and cheese.
We're lucky to have what we do, just please, don't be down on everyone, it's not this easy everywhere.

lezzpezz
December 1st, 2005, 09:48 AM
I am in agreement with you Papillionmama.I am a fellow Canadian and understand that geographically in our country, there are those without a mall down the street and a Timmy's on every corner. My uncle was also a hunter
BUT only hunted what he would need to eat and respected both the animals and the laws surrounding hunting. NEVER kill for the sheer sport of it. I ate many a game pie or pheasant dinner growing up.

There are those worldwide that depend on hunting for a food source to feed families and survive. That is not the issue that I was trying to address.

The ingrates in the video were not hunters. They are sadistic animal abusers and killers...beyond being cruel, beyond being deserving of forgiveness. To me they are deserving of nothing less than the same inhumane treatment that they have bestowed on these poor innocent pets and strays....

I have thought of nothing else since I have watched this footage. I have had nightmares and am nauseated when I think about it, which is pretty much all day long.

How do we help? Jump on board with the suggestion to go to boycotthttp://www.animalsasia.org/. I am going to start there.

papillonmama
December 1st, 2005, 09:58 AM
I am defenitely going to send the strongly worded letter on this page. I totally support what they are trying to stop.

On the site you indicated they had the e-mail for someone, one can only hope, can do something about this it was a little hard to find so here's a direct URL...

http://www.animalsasia.org/index.php?module=6&menupos=9&lg=en

Lucky Rescue
December 1st, 2005, 10:48 AM
but I have to admit, that when I was a little kid and my father was laid off in the winter that his trap line was what kept food in our belly. We don't need to trap now, but we most certainly did then. It might surprise you, but you can eat beaver, and we did, we also ate the rabbits that he would snare.

No one is talking about killing for necessity or for food. My grandfather also hunted and killed animals during the Depression, in order to eat and feed his 12 children. That has nothing to do with trapping to make fur coats for people who don't need them.

This is about trapping and killing for status symbols and fashion.

Roxy's_MA
December 1st, 2005, 11:31 AM
:sorry: I guess I thought leg traps where the same as snares. Snares are illegal for the average hunter. They are legal for Holders of Registered Fur Management Licences. So yup, you can use them to kill for fur.

The reason I though they were illegal because, my mom phoned the RCMP on some Jackass snaring gofers in the park and making all the kids cry. The cops told us it was illegal to snare.

Shows how little I know about hunting.

chico2
December 1st, 2005, 04:51 PM
Papillonmama,we are not talking about someone hunting for food,I am sure they do not skin an animal alive,but take every precaution to kill with one shot.
I did not see the Chinese video and have no intention of doing so,but I have seen others and it's what nightmares are made of,something equal to what the 3 morons did to Kensington the cat,right here in Toronto,but on a larger scale.
To be perfectly honest I wish the whole world would boycott China until they clean up their act,be it regarding human rights or animal cruelty.

Katze
December 1st, 2005, 05:55 PM
I have seen the "chinese " video, and also slaughter house videos , fur farm videos, pigfarm videos, animal research videos. I think that everyone should view these undercover exposes before opining on the subject of animal killing.
Thank god for those who dare undertake such horrifying work in order to educate the public as to where many of the goods they take for granted come from.

papillonmama
December 1st, 2005, 07:55 PM
I used the outline that was provided on the URL that I posted above to express my disgust over the companion animal welfare situation in China and mailed it to prescribed e-mail address.

At an earlier point in my life, I also tried to boycott China, not because of cruelty to animals, I hadn't heard of that yet, but because of their hostile take-over of Tibet. Talk about cruelty, they took an entire country violently from a mostly peaceful people. Anyway, I still try my best, but it is extremely hard to entirely boycott China. Even when you buy something that is not made in China, many times, the parts were made in China then assembled somewhere else. I still try my best though, and it doesn't help to boycott China if nobody knows about it, so I suggest writing to everyone you can, anyone you can think of in government offices, foreign government offices etc. If enough people write, they can't ignore the problem forever.

I wasn't offended, I didn't think that you all were referring to hunting for food, I just wanted to get across that there are a lot of different situations, we sold the pelts, but we ate the meat, we used the money to buy school clothes, boots, food, pay our land taxes, etc. Someone probably did use the pelts to make something to sell, but it's not fair to be down on someone for doing things out of neccessity.

It's not the responsible hunters that should be getting the strife, but the irresponsible people who still buy fur hats and coats...

BTW be careful when you buy, so called fake fur coats, some of them have have fake fur with real fur mixed with it.

:love:

LM1313
December 2nd, 2005, 08:30 PM
I hate the idea of hunting and/or using real animal fur for coats, hats, or any purpose--unless you are hunting because you need the meat and have the fur "leftover" anyway. But getting a thrill out of killing something, enjoying killing something, having fun killing something . . . I don't care if it's a human, dog, cat, wolf, or ant, that's just morally wrong. Killing an animal for it's fur just because it's fashionable to wear dead things is even worse.

You know what makes me feel the worst? Those fox stoles that still have the foxes head attached. Sick. Just sick.

~LM~

babyrocky1
December 2nd, 2005, 10:14 PM
Mrs Bungle,I am not "blanket labelling"the Chinese people,dog/cat furs are sold in Europe and someone is getting rich,but certainly not the Chinese people.China is the fastest growing economy in the world and in our dealings with China,we are turning a blind eye to the horrific human rights abuses.
Whether they view animals the way I do or not,is beside the point,culture or not,I do not have to agree,cruelty is cruelty wherever it comes from.
In awarding China the Olympics,we are letting the Chinese government know,we really do not care what they do to their people,or how many political prisoners are rotting in jail as long as they put on a wonderful show. Well said, Chico, I totally agree.