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Human/Animal Rights question

Jeffie
November 19th, 2005, 08:11 AM
Hi there,
I'm wondering if anyone out there would have any suggestions with where I can find information regarding the rights of people with pets.

I Live in a luxury high rise, I've been here for several years and many of the residence have dogs. In the past couple years the building has had allot of new tenants move into the building. Most of these people seem to be very anti-animal and demand some one with a dog get out of the elevator so they can ride without them. (Even if you were on the elevator first).

This week the management of the building has asked the concierge staff to ask pet owners to use the rear and side entrances to the building only. In speaking to one of the concierges I was told it was because some of the new residence are afraid of dogs. And by making us use side and back doors it would appease them. (I was shocked, it made me feel like I was being told to sit at the back of the bus) Naturally, I am now using the main entrance exclusively as are many other dog owners.

I am now trying to put a package together with *My* rights. I have found a few things that were helpful on the Ontario Human rights site and the Tenant protection act. However, I want to have all my bases covered, and have allot of ammunition for when they start to harass us.

Thanks for any help you may be able to provide on where I can locate information on our rights as pet owners.

pitbulliest
November 19th, 2005, 09:04 AM
I get that in my building too...and its just a rental apartment...you should try to contact a tenant association or speak with a tribunal office...as pets are allowed in your building and you have rights too..there is no reason why you should be treated unequally or worse than everyone else because you have a dog and its against someone's religion or culture (that's what I deal with anyways)....

If we allow people to start thinking that folks with pets need to move aside for everyone, pet owners will end up losing rights.... keep fighting :P

sorry...I feel very strongly about this issue....especially since BSL and stupid dog legislation is hitting my province...its absolutely unfair....and its discrimination!...

I'll shut up now...:D

LL1
November 19th, 2005, 09:23 AM
Alot of people are very afraid of animals.I would try and be conscious of that.I would have no problem going in through another entrance.I would not make it a big issue and ignore the management co.,if you do that and you get enough complaints you could be shown the door.

happycats
November 19th, 2005, 09:31 AM
I believe that if we don't fight, for ours and our pets rights,the animals will lose what few laws and rights they have now!! We don't want to go backwards, just because someone elses "culture" or beliefs don't include the love of pets!!
Don't get me wrong, I believe in equality, but not going the totally opposite way to be "politically correct" or to protect others cultural or religious beliefs, we can't lose our rights, freedoms, or our cultural beliefs in the process!!

Jeffie
November 19th, 2005, 09:59 AM
Alot of people are very afraid of animals.I would try and be conscious of that.I would have no problem going in through another entrance.I would not make it a big issue and ignore the management co.,if you do that and you get enough complaints you could be shown the door.

I can respect that people are afraid of animals, however that is their problem not mine. I'm terribly afraid of snakes for instance and there is someone in the building with one, if he's on the elevator I will simply say "Sorry I'm afraid of your snake, I'll take the next elevator" My dogs are not doing anything wrong, they are friendly and don't bark or growl at people, they simply want to go out and do their business. Using a back door isn't going to prevent me from seeing other people it still means we will meet at the elevator. It's simply non-sense and if I were to be evicted for something as simple as using a front door. There would be allot of media attention on it.

I'm actually shocked that you would allow someone to make you go through another door and basically allow someone to make you become a second class citizen.

People with pets have rights too, it's not like my dogs would attack or even bark at some-one. They are simply going through a common area like everyone else.

twodogsandacat
November 19th, 2005, 10:04 AM
Some certain religions consider dogs dirty. I personally wouldn't have an issue with going out a separate way with my dogs especially if people gather at the front entrance as they do in some buildings.

I also allow somebody to take the elevator and I'd wait. If I was on the elevator then of course they would wait. If they don't and get on anyway then the next time I wouldn't wait either as obviously they don't mind that much when they'd be the ones waiting. If I'm good enough when you're in a hurry then you'd be good enough when I'm in a hurry.

I also wouldn't allow my dogs to intimidate anyone, which although I am sure no one on this board would do either does happen. Look at the two pitties that Bryant used to start this whole BSL thing. They had previously attacked the attaché case of another tenant. If action were taken on that first incident then maybe the province would be a different place today.

les
November 19th, 2005, 12:26 PM
I would be exactly the same and use the front door ALL the time ... maybe even just stand at the front door with my dog for fun.

Why don't THEY use the back door if the pets bother them? Make the rule the other way .. pets use the front door - tenants who don't like it use the back door.

It makes me so angry that Canada is such a pushover. This is the way it is in this country (or should be) people (Canadians) have pets and our relationship with them is closer and better then it is in most countries. But because the new comers don't like it we change how we act because we don't want to offend them. BULL

I say .... if you don't like it here ... there's the door.

End rant ;)

LL1
November 19th, 2005, 12:55 PM
Alot of people who are not immigrants feel the same way as the people in his building,and are either terrified or allergic or uncomfortable with animals,it is not an immigrant problem.
I would be exactly the same and use the front door ALL the time ... maybe even just stand at the front door with my dog for fun.

Why don't THEY use the back door if the pets bother them? Make the rule the other way .. pets use the front door - tenants who don't like it use the back door.

It makes me so angry that Canada is such a pushover. This is the way it is in this country (or should be) people (Canadians) have pets and our relationship with them is closer and better then it is in most countries. But because the new comers don't like it we change how we act because we don't want to offend them. BULL

I say .... if you don't like it here ... there's the door.

End rant ;)

LL1
November 19th, 2005, 12:58 PM
Nope,if dogs are decided to be a nuisance based on complaints by other tenants,and owners of the dogs are ignoring requests by management,you would be booted.
It's simply non-sense and if I were to be evicted for something as simple as using a front door. There would be allot of media attention on it.

I'm actually shocked that you would allow someone to make you go through another door and basically allow someone to make you become a second class citizen.

People with pets have rights too, it's not like my dogs would attack or even bark at some-one. They are simply going through a common area like everyone else.

Jeffie
November 19th, 2005, 01:15 PM
Nope,if dogs are decided to be a nuisance based on complaints by other tenants,and owners of the dogs are ignoring requests by management,you would be booted.

I think this is an area that we will have to agree to disagree... I have done my homework and they can not "Boot" some one for ignoring this request to use the rear entrance.

Here is one quote from the owner/tenant tribunal

"The Tribunal will not order the tenancy terminated if it is satisfied that the animal kept by the tenant did not cause or contribute to the substantial interference, or that the animal did not cause or contribute to the allergic reaction. "

I don't believe simply using a door is "substantial interference". The dog would have to be at least growling at people. (Which they don't... Their fear is not based on any history with my pets. Just like people, you can't put them into categories and stereotype. Their complaint would not stand up in court.)

les
November 19th, 2005, 01:30 PM
Alot of people who are not immigrants feel the same way as the people in his building,and are either terrified or allergic or uncomfortable with animals,it is not an immigrant problem.

How are you so sure? Do you live there too? I can't say for sure they are but you can't say for sure they aren't.

I'm glad to be an owner and not a renter anymore. Now I make the rules about the doors and the funny thing .... the dogs and I usually use the back door ;)

I don't imagine they can kick you out based on using the wrong door!

Jeffie
November 19th, 2005, 01:37 PM
How are you so sure? Do you live there too? I can't say for sure they are but you can't say for sure they aren't.

I'm glad to be an owner and not a renter anymore. Now I make the rules about the doors and the funny thing .... the dogs and I usually use the back door ;)

I don't imagine they can kick you out based on using the wrong door!


Les, you'd be right. It was the new tenants in this case that caused the problem. They expect us to change for them, and like the spineless people we canadians can be, the management chose to have everyone change for them as not to offend them. (They don't care about offending me who is now the minority in the building being caucasian) Before the building had these new tenants it wasn't a problem. You have the right idea in owning rather than renting. That it the route I will be taking soon, my partner and I plan to get out of toronto all together when we do buy.

les
November 19th, 2005, 02:03 PM
Jeffie,

I agree with everything you've said. Things like this really make me angry. Almost more angry that nobody will say it like it is and stand up for themselves and this country (Like the whole Merry Christmas-Happy Holidays thing that's about to begin again - I say Merry Christmas ALWAYS)

I moved from Mississauga (not quite the big city but close) to Grimsby. I say go for it! If you can get away from the big cities and you like the smaller towns do it as soon as you can!

I just try to miss as much of the news as I can and stay away from the newspaper headlines cause they only make me mad too :rolleyes:

I would have never believed I'd become something like a 27 year old hermit!!! ;) LOL

Good luck at your building for the time being :)

LL1
November 19th, 2005, 06:01 PM
Youd be surprised at what can make a dog be called a nuisance,or in this case what an owner is doing that allows a dog to be called a nuisance.What does your lease say about ignoring requests or policies made by management?I would call it substantial interference and it could be breaching terms of the lease.

I dont think it matters that in your particular case that they are people you think are immigrants,it was racist to even bring that up.My Aunt is terrified of dogs,many generations over in Canada,and she would be afraid to be in an elevator with a dog,or have to walk by them in a doorway.If management is involved,it is not just one person complaining.I would not risk my home to make a statement,doing things to defy mgmt and the concerns of other tenants leads to more probs,and you could have all kinds of complaints made,valid or not.I think you are asking for a lot of trouble.

I think this is an area that we will have to agree to disagree... I have done my homework and they can not "Boot" some one for ignoring this request to use the rear entrance.

Here is one quote from the owner/tenant tribunal

"The Tribunal will not order the tenancy terminated if it is satisfied that the animal kept by the tenant did not cause or contribute to the substantial interference, or that the animal did not cause or contribute to the allergic reaction. "

I don't believe simply using a door is "substantial interference". The dog would have to be at least growling at people. (Which they don't... Their fear is not based on any history with my pets. Just like people, you can't put them into categories and stereotype. Their complaint would not stand up in court.)

papillonmama
November 19th, 2005, 07:18 PM
I would also comply, at least for the time being, you can't get around this until you have other tenants to back you up. I'm assuming that you pay rent as well as the other tenants, this is your home and you do have the right to feel comfortable too. I don't agree with them asking you to leave the elevator, I think that's a little smug, but being a pet owner in Toronto has always been a bit tricky.
My mother also had this problem but a bit different, anytime the other tenants would hear a dog they would complain about hers, even though there were at least three other dogs on her level at any given time. I happen to know that she wouldn't bark excessively, I used to go and visit during the day, and she wouldn't bark until she heard my keys in the door, but neighbors can be real jerks. It got to a point where she felt she had to give up her dog or get a house, she ended up giving Dory to us. And the worse part was that she's lived there for 13 years and had never been late on rent or anything like that. I found that often the landlord will listen to the newer tenants complaints before listening to the loyal tenant who's been there forever.
another thing I noticed when dealing with my last slumlord, er landlord I mean, is that now a days the landlord tenant board listens to both the tenant and the landlord, but many claims are awarded to the landlord.
So while I wouldn't get out of the elevator, I would move my dog behind my legs, safer for the dog too, no chance of them being intentionally or unintentionally hurt.

Luba
November 19th, 2005, 07:23 PM
The use of the word 'immigrant' has no place in this discussion and I agree with LL1 being that it was a racist thing to say.

If you are not First Nations YOU TOO are an immigrant through generation.

It's so simple to point fingers isn't it when we don't want to respect others no matter what their background is.

You live in a building not a house, you share common areas with people. Have some respect and consideration for them or move to a house.

LM1313
November 19th, 2005, 07:33 PM
I don't think it's fair to blame "immigrants." If the people complaining were all sixth-generation Canadians, would you generalize about "longtime Canadians"? If they were all white, would you complain about "those damn white people"? Like Luba said, we're all descended from immigrants, except for Native Americans. Besides, have you talked to every single immigrant in the building? How do you know if every single person who's an immigrant has a problem with your dogs?

I'd use the side door for the benefit of people who are scared of dogs. It's not their fault they have a phobia . . . Have some compassion.

But if you're in the elevator first, I wouldn't get out. You were there first, they can wait for the next elevator.

~LM~

Tigger
November 19th, 2005, 07:41 PM
If this thread continues along the vein of "blame the immigrants", it will be closed. The color, origin or race of a person should not enter into any discussion. Canada was born of immigrants, it would not be here today if not for the thousands of families who moved to this country. Please choose your words carefully. Thank you.

Jeffie
November 19th, 2005, 08:01 PM
Tigger,
Please feel free to close this thread, it got completely off track. I was simply looking for some help in getting more information on my rights. It wasn't intended on becoming a rasist thread even though that's what it has become. I have several other people in the building with dogs who also feel discriminated against. You don't expect to pay over $2000.00 a month for rent and get this type of treatment. Therefore we will simply go to the tenant board and take our case there with our legal team. This was a forum that I thought I would be able to get help from rather than paying out money for such sillyness however I realise now that my rights in this country aren't free and in order to keep them I will have to pay.
(what has this world come to??)

happycats
November 19th, 2005, 08:38 PM
This thread doesn't need to be closed, Jeffie came here for help, and i'm sure there is someone on the board who has been in the same situation, who can help.

Prin
November 19th, 2005, 09:25 PM
I'd say this isn't an immigrant issue but a dog person vs. non-dog person issue.

You don't expect to pay over $2000.00 a month for rent and get this type of treatment.Sorry, but the key word here is RENT. Rent money doesn't get you control over anything. Owning gets you control. We were renters and I got screamed at by neighbors across the street often enough that sometimes I was afraid to walk my dogs. We also had the barkiest, yappiest little dog next door who was left alone for 16 hours at a time. That's renting. Wherever you go, as long as you are renting, you don't get to make the decisions.

We bought a tiny house (TINY) and it is unbelievably peaceful here and every house on the street has at least one dog. We're out of the city (the city is not too affordable) but I would never go back.

Maybe I don't expect much, but to me, when you rent, you can't expect to live alone with no neighbors and no annoyances. C'est la vie.

Prin
November 19th, 2005, 09:27 PM
Oh and the reason new tenants get better treatment? They usually pay more. I know here in Qc, they set a maximum increase for rents, and some years, that increase doesn't even cover the increase in taxes. The landlords would much rather get somebody new in with a huge rent increase (even though they're not really allowed to do that either, but not too many people fight it...).

Luba
November 19th, 2005, 09:55 PM
I Live in a luxury high rise, I've been here for several years and many of the residence have dogs. In the past couple years the building has had allot of new tenants move into the building. Most of these people seem to be very anti-animal and demand some one with a dog get out of the elevator so they can ride without them. (Even if you were on the elevator first).

Hard not to see this when it's staring you in the face..

Tigger why don't you ask for this to be edited or edit it yourself, this will save argument thank you.

Paying $2000 for rent is high but my dad pays just as much and he's unstable on his feet so having dogs around him makes him upset if he doesn't know them. I know lots of people who have fear just being in the same room with a dog and hey though that is their fear, just be understanding.

What harm would it do if you were? You may ask for a reduction on your rent for this ;) Give that a try!

White Wolf
November 19th, 2005, 10:10 PM
Ok. Hopefully I have changed all of the offensive content in the above posts. PLEASE get on with the discussion about tenants' rights concerning pets and NO MORE derogatory comments about any group of people. This is not the place to voice racist sentiment and it will not be tolerated.

Thank you.

Luba
November 19th, 2005, 10:31 PM
Thanks very much :D

les
November 20th, 2005, 08:31 AM
When did Canada lose freedom of speech?? Last I knew we still had that!

This is not the place to voice racist sentiment and it will not be tolerated.

What racist sentiment?? To say oh this group of people doesn't like pets is racist sentiment??? And if it's true is it still racist sentiment??

Unless I missed a whole lot of posts I don't think there was any "racist sentiments" and if you can't say an opinion what is there even a forum here for?

Welcome to Canada :rolleyes:

poodletalk
November 20th, 2005, 09:10 AM
No matter where you live, if you buy or own if your neighbors don't like animals it will ALWAYS be difficult! I have a house, my neighbors came over to my house to complain about my dog barking.She barked couple of times, it took me couple of minutes to bring her in because I was upstaris. The point is, do I complain to them about their FIVE kids yelling and screaming outside? Do I complain to them I can't automatically pull in MY driveway because their kids bikes are on it? NO! I think in this world, you have to give and take. If your neighbors don't like dogs, maybe you should explain to them which I did that it's your lease that you are allowed dogs. You will do YOUR best to make sure that your dogs will not bother them in their everday life. But YOU have the right as well to use the front door, back door as much as they do, since YOU pay as much rent as everyone else does to live in this high raise. Sometimes, if you are super nice to the people who are causing problems, you can get things solved before it gets out of hand.

BMDLuver
November 20th, 2005, 09:32 AM
When did Canada lose freedom of speech?? Last I knew we still had that!



What racist sentiment?? To say oh this group of people doesn't like pets is racist sentiment??? And if it's true is it still racist sentiment??

Unless I missed a whole lot of posts I don't think there was any "racist sentiments" and if you can't say an opinion what is there even a forum here for?

Welcome to Canada :rolleyes:
The posts were edited to remove the objectionable content, so yes, you did miss a bit prior to editing.

happycats
November 20th, 2005, 09:34 AM
When did Canada lose freedom of speech?? Last I knew we still had that!



What racist sentiment?? To say oh this group of people doesn't like pets is racist sentiment??? And if it's true is it still racist sentiment??

Unless I missed a whole lot of posts I don't think there was any "racist sentiments" and if you can't say an opinion what is there even a forum here for?

Welcome to Canada :rolleyes:

How very ture!!! sad but true, thank you Les for saying it like it is!!:thumbs up .

Gazoo
November 20th, 2005, 10:16 AM
When did Canada lose freedom of speech?? Last I knew we still had that!



What racist sentiment?? To say oh this group of people doesn't like pets is racist sentiment??? And if it's true is it still racist sentiment??

Unless I missed a whole lot of posts I don't think there was any "racist sentiments" and if you can't say an opinion what is there even a forum here for?

Welcome to Canada :rolleyes:


:thumbs up

From what I've seen in the past freedom of speech apprently does not apply here.

:ca:

Gazoo
November 20th, 2005, 10:24 AM
Back to original post.

Some people find dogs offensive from different perspectives, whether religious, cultural, phobic/fear or health based (allergies/asthma, etc.) doesn't matter.

IMHO the onus should be on the dog owners to show some respect and common courtesy to these people and not use the main doors if it offends others.

Individual rights end when their expression infringes on someone elses basic right to enjoy their property.

Golden Girls
November 20th, 2005, 11:19 AM
Well, here we go again ... same two people crying racist!!!

Tigger
November 20th, 2005, 12:12 PM
2 - Forum rules and guidelines are not up for debate

Anyone openly debating the rules or guidelines we have set in place can be removed without warning. No complaining about the rules either. We have put a lot of time and effort into making this site run smoothly. Whining and complaining about the rules detracts from the primary goal of this board which is helping pet owners and helping pets. The Moderators that help run this site are very busy volunteers that work for free. If they ask you to do something do not fight with them, just listen. If you see your post vanish, live with it. If you see a member get banned live with it. Do not post about it, do not fight about it. If you feel a thread or post has broken the rules - PM (Private message) an Admin or Mod or use the report a bad post icon . Do not post about it or fight about it as it won't help, it wastes time and can result in your losing your privileges as well.

Gazoo
November 20th, 2005, 12:16 PM
2 - Forum rules and guidelines are not up for debate

Anyone openly debating the rules or guidelines we have set in place can be removed without warning. No complaining about the rules either. We have put a lot of time and effort into making this site run smoothly. Whining and complaining about the rules detracts from the primary goal of this board which is helping pet owners and helping pets. The Moderators that help run this site are very busy volunteers that work for free. If they ask you to do something do not fight with them, just listen. If you see your post vanish, live with it. If you see a member get banned live with it. Do not post about it, do not fight about it. If you feel a thread or post has broken the rules - PM (Private message) an Admin or Mod or use the report a bad post icon . Do not post about it or fight about it as it won't help, it wastes time and can result in your losing your privileges as well.

Ban me if you wish...but shouldn't a community of people be able to evolve and grow in a democratic and egalitarian manner?!?!

Prin
November 20th, 2005, 12:16 PM
When did Canada lose freedom of speech?? Last I knew we still had that!

What racist sentiment?? To say oh this group of people doesn't like pets is racist sentiment??? And if it's true is it still racist sentiment??

Unless I missed a whole lot of posts I don't think there was any "racist sentiments" and if you can't say an opinion what is there even a forum here for?

Welcome to Canada :rolleyes:
Yes, Canada is a country of inclusion not a country of hatred and racism. We accept our neighbors for who they are and what they believe. What you call no back bone, I call tolerance and acceptance. When you say "stand up for ourselves", I hear "go out and bully people."

Asking somebody to use the back door is nothing like the judgements that were in this thread. What about German immigrants? A lot of German immigrants LOVE dogs and know dogs better than most Canadians would. But they're lumped in there too? It's NOT about being an immigrant, and saying so is just ignorant and racist. I too feel that those hateful sentiments should not be on this website. This is a website dedicated to helping pets, not spitting out hate.

What same two people crying racist? If anything offends somebody, then you should be sensitive to that. If it was a group of white people causing the problem, would their race have been mentioned at all? I doubt it. The way the mods edited it, the posts make sense still- WITHOUT the judgements. If you look back at my history here, I don't get offended easily. But when I read the first post here, I thought, "Whoa! Hold on a minute. That's not right." And it isn't right. This is a board created in Canada, but we still have a very international crowd here.

The mods said get on with the discussion and you all can't. If the OP came here for answers about his question, a question which has not been edited or changed, why then is nobody trying to answer it?

It's funny how the people who fight hardest for freedom of speech are the ones who say the most hateful things.

Prin
November 20th, 2005, 12:17 PM
Ban me if you wish...but shouldn't a community of people be able to evolve and grow in a democratic and egalitarian manner?!?!
How is putting a whole group of people down egalitarian at all?:rolleyes: :mad:

Tigger
November 20th, 2005, 12:26 PM
1 - Who is welcome

Pets.ca is dedicated to providing pet information and this moderated board has become a popular resource for pet lovers worldwide. Users are free to post questions and answers on a variety of pet related and non pet related topics in appropriate forums. Most of the common questions that pet owners have, have been answered by different members many of whom provide excellent insight and tips based on their experience. Some of the members that answer questions are experts. Although most questions are answered regular members, the rare question is answered by a veterinarian. There are a lot of highly knowledgeable members on this board that share their information freely. Everyone that has an interest in pets is welcome on our board so long as they respect our rules. The main rules are, always be polite, don't try to sell anything, don't slander anyone, don't dispute the rules. Posting on our board should be considered a privilege.

Gazoo
November 20th, 2005, 12:39 PM
How is putting a whole group of people down egalitarian at all?:rolleyes: :mad:



I don't advocate racism in any way shape or form.

Cultural differences are what make Canada a great country :ca:

Lucky Rescue
November 20th, 2005, 12:52 PM
Just want to add that if anyone wants to take a dog on an elevator or in public hallways, that dog better be trained so well that his behavior is impeccable.

I LOVE dogs, but do not enjoy being jumped on, pawed, or lunged at by strange dogs.

In an elevator, your dog should be sitting quietly between you and the wall, away from other riders. In this situation, I don't think anyone should be told to take the back stairs.

Living in close proximity to others, such as in apartments and condos, will cause you annoyance one way or the other since we tend to find the habits of neighbours irritating at times. This is why I live in a house with a 1/2 acre lot.:p

Personally, I get sick to my stomach when women drenched in perfume enter an elevator with me, but I would not ask them to take the back stairs. I"d have to grin and bear it since I chose to live there and they have the same rights I have.

JMO!

LL1
November 20th, 2005, 01:07 PM
Yes,some people are disgusted by racism and point it out.The mods and admin of this board do not allow it here either.

Some people have tried to give advice and suggestions.I have dealt with a tenant being threatened with eviction for their dog,and would not advise anyone to ignore management requests and risk their home in that manner.Thats why I suggested using another door,and complying with managements request.The more you defy management and upset other tenants,the more complaints you will get,valid or not.That would make a person a nuisance as well and would not be supported.
Well, here we go again ... same two people crying racist!!!

Prin
November 20th, 2005, 01:09 PM
I still don't get that one... I mean I look back and there are at the very least four people who were offended. Those "two people" were certainly not off-base.

Luba
November 20th, 2005, 01:18 PM
Dog + Apartment/Condo living = rules because of common areas

I have a dog, always had dogs and when I lived in an apartment was always respectful of those with fears or who just didn't like dogs. It's not that big of a deal? What if someone in an apartment started carrying their big pet snake on their neck? Me....I would run and probably pee myself and talk to the management about it, asking them to either crate it or be sensitive to others when coming and going.

Just because we're talking about dogs doesn't make a difference :D

And btw...did the mod not ask for this to stay on topic?
If you aren't culturally sensitive to others then I'm so sorry for you, you're missing out on a great big world out there with lovely lovely people in it!

melanie
November 20th, 2005, 02:49 PM
quote 'I can respect that people are afraid of animals, however that is their problem not mine'

ok when i was a child i had my face torn apart by 3 poodles, this incedent has caused great grief for me around other ppls animals that may not be your problem but you can either make their problenms better or worse, this will all effect you so you may as well do it properly and not with animosity. i love my GSD, and love dogs, but many of them i am still quite afraid of. having experienced such an atrocious attack, i can understand and be empathetic to others fears. and knowing that, i act accordingly with my dog.

if someone is afraid of my dog, i try and help them realise she is a nice girl, hopeing to bring them closer to dogs, and get rid of that awful feeling of fear i know they have. i will try and get them to understand her, not hate her. and if that means keeping her at a distance then thats fine. in australia dogs are not treated like they are there, but i dont find it offensive, other ppl dont understand is all, they odnt know dogs so to speak, i dont hold it against them. i try to educate them.

perhaps you can get to know the neighbors that are afraid, and work with them. approach them and explain the situaiton from your side, and then ask them if they would like to have a meet and greet with the dogs. you could make it a community thing,.

oh how many times have i been scared of a dog, only to have its owner show me the kindness of the dog and talk with me to help me love their animal. i was not wrong to fear, just a bit wary (and fear is a good evolutionary tool), so many ppl are.

try and extend a bit of your heart and good karma to those around you that may not understand or have fears. remember, if in their position you would want the same kindnes extended to you.

Gazoo
November 20th, 2005, 03:27 PM
try and extend a bit of your heart and good karma to those around you that may not understand or have fears. remember, if in their position you would want the same kindnes extended to you.

the very best post in this thread

:thumbs up :highfive:

Golden Girls
November 20th, 2005, 04:07 PM
Maybe Prin you forget who turned my thread on "animal abuse" into a racist one but I haven't. It wasn't four people but it was these same two. And I for one will never forget that yes another dog did die and had I not had to delete it - it could of possibly been saved.

Was this family who abused and tortured dogs Chinese/Korean -YES. Did that thread ever say ALL CHINESE/KOREAN ABUSE DOGS - NO !!! There are many Chinese and Korean people who own pets and love them, just like there are many who are afraid and chose not. This abuse was not reported because of their nationatility but because they were abusing animals.

Beating/torturing animals is not a cultural or religious thing. It's a choice.

Have I ever walked by this family with my dogs and they look at me like I'm disgusting - every single day. Would that be because I'm Irish?

I came here for help just like the above OP - it ended the same way.

Am I angry - you tell me. For now though I've got to check on the new little pup. Sleep well.

LL1
November 20th, 2005, 04:39 PM
You didnt have to delete anything,you could have edited the racist remarks.I cant imagine their issue with you is you being irish.Whether the dog is alive or not has nothing to do with what you posted,or what you chose to delete.
Maybe Prin you forget who turned my thread on "animal abuse" into a racist one but I haven't. It wasn't four people but it was these same two. And I for one will never forget that yes another dog did die and had I not had to delete it - it could of possibly been saved.

Was this family who abused and tortured dogs Chinese/Korean -YES. Did that thread ever say ALL CHINESE/KOREAN ABUSE DOGS - NO !!! There are many Chinese and Korean people who own pets and love them, just like there are many who are afraid and chose not. This abuse was not reported because of their nationatility but because they were abusing animals.

Beating/torturing animals is not a cultural or religious thing. It's a choice.

Have I ever walked by this family with my dogs and they look at me like I'm disgusting - absolutely. Would that be because I'm Irish?

I came here for help just like the above OP - it ended the same way.

Am I angry - you tell me. For now though I've got to check on the new little pup. Sleep well.

Golden Girls
November 20th, 2005, 04:49 PM
Your doing the exact same things as you did last summer. And people believed the editing was for that reason. I edited because of spelling. Not because I said anything racist.

And, they think I'm discusting because I love my dogs. Unlike them. That's it! And, how would you know? I'm there everyday X2. I'm trying to defend animal abuse - and your what exactly?

Luba
November 20th, 2005, 05:00 PM
GoldenGirls this thread isn't about you, your little hissy fits are not very becoming nor are they ladylike! Do you have something to contribute or are you just trying to provoke arguments?

"these two" "those people" ...same mentality...rubber and glue huh LL ;)


Mel dog bites and attacks are just awful and I remember you sharing that story with us before, glad you posted it again. It's a bit of a refresher course for those who didn't know about it!

One thing about living in a house, I'm glad I don't get into those situations.
Even going to the park or somewhere where people don't like dogs they get nervous and sometimes I see them run. I feel so badly for them, but their fear is REAL to them and Lord knows I'd never go out of my way to cause someone fear like that...

LL1
November 20th, 2005, 05:05 PM
You said you had to delete.You defend animal abuse?
Your doing the exact same things as you did last summer. And people believed the editing was for that reason. I edited because of spelling. Not because I said anything racist.

And, they think I'm discusting because I love my dogs. Unlike them. That's it! And, how would you know? I'm there everyday X2. I'm trying to defend animal abuse - and your what exactly?

LL1
November 20th, 2005, 05:06 PM
:thumbs up
the very best post in this thread

:thumbs up :highfive:

Originally Posted by melanie
try and extend a bit of your heart and good karma to those around you that may not understand or have fears. remember, if in their position you would want the same kindnes extended to you

happycats
November 20th, 2005, 05:08 PM
It isn't very nice telling someone they are having a "hissy fit" no name calling remember, that only fuels the fire!
I think Golden Girls is very upset (with good reason) because dogs in her neighbourhood are being abused and eaten, and no one is doing anything about it because they don't want to be called a "racist" !!!

Luba
November 20th, 2005, 05:16 PM
This thread was about landlord / tenant issues not Goldengirls opinion on what happened in a very very old thread.

PetFriendly
November 20th, 2005, 05:51 PM
As much as I love animals, I recognize that my love of pets is mine and should not be pushed onto others. I'm not sure about all the racial non-sense in the middle of all this, but there are lots of people who don't really like animals. My room-mates boyfriend never ever had pets growing up, alergies and what not. If the cat jumps up on the couch, he jumps off, if the puppy licks his hand, he jumps. I doubt he'll ever get over it... And he and his parents were born and raised in Canada so race doesn't really have much to do with any of this, its just the way people are raised.

I don't beleive that owning a dog and taking it through the main lobby of the building is a humanitarian right... I would love to bring my pup everywhere with me but I can't, so I don't even though he would fit in a backpack. Like Mel said, if we bump into someone while walking who is clearly afraid of dogs, we stop and chat and the person will usually at least make eye contact with the dog (there is extra pressure here because Charley is a very small dog and everyone incorrectly assumes he isn't trained at all and bites).

And abusing animals and eating them are two very seperate issues... We raised pigs, beef and chickens when I was a kid, none of which were abused, all of which were eaten.

CyberKitten
November 20th, 2005, 06:31 PM
Like Luba and LL1 and Prin and others (sorry if I exclude anyone who observed that the inclusion (pun intended) of the term immigrant has absolutely no place in this discussion.

That said, it is my understanding the concern is over whether someone with allergies of fear of dogs (or other animals?) has the right to ask someone not to share the elevator with them in an apartment building and management is asking renters with dogs to use another door?

I understand the frustration. When I travel with my cat, (and when I did so with my dog), I had to make accomodations for others who did not have pets. But as a passenger, I would also wait for passengers with small children or elderly people or those with disabilities that require extra help as they were being given assistance. I am not sure this is all that different here. As a society, we need to learn to live together. My cat is a lovely, affectionate girl who wants to meet everyone she sees. The same was true of my dogs and is currently the case with my chocolate lab. Yet, I realize some are afraid of animnals or have sometimes lethal allergies to them - or allergies that could lead to serious medical problems. I for one would not want to br responsible for someone's illness because I brought my dog or cat on the same elevator as they were on. I think the same kind of etiquette for politeness stands in this situation. In the elevator issue, it might depend on who was there first. If the person with the allergy was, I would let them take the elevator and make certain my dog was as far as possible from that person. If the reverse were treu, (and I was there first, I actually think I might also wait so that they did not have to take the elevator immediately after me and have to cope with dog hair and dander that might hinder their health.) It would depend on the number of elevators. I might be frustrated with the situation if the person with the allergy was not the nicest person but in a way, that might be all the more reason to avoid her or him so I do not have to worry about a law suit or other troublesome issues.

I would also think about my pet and not want to have them exposed to a nasty person who hates animals. I'd find a way to avoid the individual. I love my anaimls and unfortunately, laws in this country can and are used against animals often! My sister - who is a lawyer Law School administrator/ prof was asked to quiet down her dog when he barked not long after she moved into a Mtl apartment. She moved to a house as soon as she could - there was no point exposing the dog to complaints and the added stress a lawsuit or worse might bring.

We love our animals but we must also respect the wishes of others. It is the same for smoking, I have no problems asking someone to butt out in an area they should not be smoking in. I live here too and smoke could potentially kill me. I am guessing those with animal allergies may think the same thing.

Maybe the issue of the door usage is something that could be worked out. one week, ppl with dogs could use it, the next vice versa and so on. Fear of dogs is very paltiple and while we may not understand how anyone can see our adorable furbabies in any other way than that, the fact is there are ppl with serious fears. They deserve the same right as we do to be able to rent an apartment. Why they rent in an apt buidling that permits animals is a question I would wonder about but the fact is they have. They should respect your love of your dog but you also need to respect their problems which are quite real to them.

Perhaps your tenant association can meet with your lanlord to discuss this situation to you can all reach a proper solutuon? But blaming the person with the allergy or fear will not help - trying to work out a common solution with respect for all (providing they respect you as well) seems to me the obvious answer - and how hard can that be? We are finally as a society becoming more understanding of disabilities - it does not seem much to ask that we do the same for people with genuine fears. It seems like such a little thing - how bad can it be to work together? And you might meet some great people in the process!

Tigger
November 20th, 2005, 07:35 PM
3 - Be polite - No flaming or insults

There is a 100 percent ban on rudeness. Although heated discussions are tolerated, always be polite. Again if you feel a post has broken this rule, do not post about it, do not fight about it. PM (Private message) an Admin or Mod or use the report a bad post icon . Posting about it or fighting about it won't help, it wastes time and can result in your losing your privileges as well.

Dragonfly
November 20th, 2005, 07:49 PM
Four warnings from moderators should be enough.